| Have We stopped taking the knee ? 20:46 - Aug 1 with 10428 views | Flashberryjack |
Have we stopped taking the knee for good, or have we only stopped for friendlies. |  |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 09:49 - Aug 2 with 1019 views | onehunglow |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 08:58 - Aug 2 by dobjack2 |
Our players are making a stand against the racist abuse they get. Do you support them in doing that? |
It is now gone past that . It is a show.
Other ways and the best would be to walk off the pitch at any racist crap.Also FIFA should ban for life countries like Serbia,Bulgaria ,Hungary with a history of proven racism.
Anyone can bend a knee.
Anyone |  |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:16 - Aug 2 with 1012 views | ItchySphincter |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 09:14 - Aug 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
BLM is a Marxist organisation that promotes an anti capitalism stance, anti police and anti traditional family unit. It’s left wing extremism, in its true senseless, divisive and damaging form.
The current knee in sport was started by Colin Kaepernick who bought into the “hands up don’t shoot” lie. This was jumped upon by BLM and other politically affiliated groups after the George Floyd incident. But the message was the same and we all saw the result to tens of thousands of peoples homes and businesses as a result, many in minority communities.
Clubs in the U.K. then started to do the same with the clubs hashtagging #BLM as it was then fashionable to do so…
It’s a bit too late to realise they were too twitch-happy to jump on board and now want to distance themselves from the organisation after realising what they are… while keeping the symbol, it’s already too entrenched in the connection.
If people want solidarity against the dying notion of racism then they will adopt a symbol/slogan that has no political links to it at all. Common sense.
If people want conflict in order to then redirect the reason for that conflict in order to justify their fight, then they will keep it… So far they have kept it.
That’s their choice, but it’s very unlikely such a politically affiliated delivery will be met with unanimous support. That’s just the way it is.
Your “white middle aged men” thing is of course an intentional red herring. People of all genders and races are against the knee and what it represents to many. [Post edited 2 Aug 2021 9:16]
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"the dying notion of racism"
You needn't have typed the rest. |  |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:26 - Aug 2 with 996 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:16 - Aug 2 by ItchySphincter |
"the dying notion of racism"
You needn't have typed the rest. |
You think racism is increasing since the great strides of the civil rights movement?
You have been watching too many idiots preaching nonsense to keep their agenda alive. There is profit in conflict and much political gain in racial division.
It’s not in question that racism is a dying notion. |  |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:38 - Aug 2 with 988 views | ItchySphincter |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:26 - Aug 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
You think racism is increasing since the great strides of the civil rights movement?
You have been watching too many idiots preaching nonsense to keep their agenda alive. There is profit in conflict and much political gain in racial division.
It’s not in question that racism is a dying notion. |
Well again, I never said it was increasing - not that it's actually quantifiable in any case, but I guess it suits certain ideologies . One racist is too many. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:43 - Aug 2 with 974 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:38 - Aug 2 by ItchySphincter |
Well again, I never said it was increasing - not that it's actually quantifiable in any case, but I guess it suits certain ideologies . One racist is too many. |
Correct, it’s dying.
It is quantifiable, because you look at things like laws, attitudes, success, social norms, barriers etc etc, these are all measurable. They are all whittled away into nothing.
It’s very rare that you will be out and about doing your normal activities and bump into a raving racist. It’s rare, pushed out to the fringes and in no way part of normal everyday life. Go back to the 50’s and that may well have been more common.
It suits certain agendas to pretend racism is everywhere today…. But it just simply isn’t.
Sure, I agree. One of everything negative is too many, one drug addict is too many, one alcoholic is too many, one broken toe is one too many… doesn’t mean it needs to be slammed down people’s throats every two seconds and pretend it’s some social pandemic though. It isn’t. [Post edited 2 Aug 2021 10:50]
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:51 - Aug 2 with 973 views | ItchySphincter |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:43 - Aug 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Correct, it’s dying.
It is quantifiable, because you look at things like laws, attitudes, success, social norms, barriers etc etc, these are all measurable. They are all whittled away into nothing.
It’s very rare that you will be out and about doing your normal activities and bump into a raving racist. It’s rare, pushed out to the fringes and in no way part of normal everyday life. Go back to the 50’s and that may well have been more common.
It suits certain agendas to pretend racism is everywhere today…. But it just simply isn’t.
Sure, I agree. One of everything negative is too many, one drug addict is too many, one alcoholic is too many, one broken toe is one too many… doesn’t mean it needs to be slammed down people’s throats every two seconds and pretend it’s some social pandemic though. It isn’t. [Post edited 2 Aug 2021 10:50]
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I don't feel it's being slammed down my throat and if people at the sharp end of prejudice are suffering who am I to judge? *rhetorical
It's not my place to tell them that it isn't a problem because it doesn't affect me. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 11:02 - Aug 2 with 954 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 10:51 - Aug 2 by ItchySphincter |
I don't feel it's being slammed down my throat and if people at the sharp end of prejudice are suffering who am I to judge? *rhetorical
It's not my place to tell them that it isn't a problem because it doesn't affect me. |
But in order to be at the wrong end of prejudice, you would have to demonstrate how that is delivered so society can do something about it. Some internet trolls is something that unfortunately is something that will never stop, they have been attacking people since the start of social media for all sorts of differences from weight, to hair colour, to sexuality, to race, to country of origin to perceived attractiveness. You name it the trolls will attack it.
If that is the extent of the prejudice that’s left in society then we are doing pretty well.
If it’s wider than that and it’s institutional like some are suggesting, then let’s get the ways in which that prejudice is administered and let’s narrow it back to individuals. It’s not difficult.
We had the notion of police being racist, when that is explored it becomes clear it’s nonsense. We had the notion in football of a lack of black managers, when that was explored it became clear it was nonsense.
The above was the incantation that clubs were inherently racist and prejudice by overwhelmingly appointing white managers. That means the owners were being accused of racism if we narrow that back, they are the decision makers.
Yet a quick 30 minute research by myself showed that the % of black managers in the professional game was the exact same as the % that qualified for their licences. There was no issue, yet we had been led to believe for years it was a big one.
So instead of kneeling to make people aware racism is wrong (I’m sure everyone is aware of that), how about pin pointing where in society racism is, how it’s affecting people and narrow it down to individuals or specific laws that are promoting this prejudice? We can then see if it’s the case and if it is, take appropriate action with actual results. Not gestures.
I’m yet to hear any sensible response to that question. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 11:32 - Aug 2 with 943 views | ItchySphincter |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 11:02 - Aug 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
But in order to be at the wrong end of prejudice, you would have to demonstrate how that is delivered so society can do something about it. Some internet trolls is something that unfortunately is something that will never stop, they have been attacking people since the start of social media for all sorts of differences from weight, to hair colour, to sexuality, to race, to country of origin to perceived attractiveness. You name it the trolls will attack it.
If that is the extent of the prejudice that’s left in society then we are doing pretty well.
If it’s wider than that and it’s institutional like some are suggesting, then let’s get the ways in which that prejudice is administered and let’s narrow it back to individuals. It’s not difficult.
We had the notion of police being racist, when that is explored it becomes clear it’s nonsense. We had the notion in football of a lack of black managers, when that was explored it became clear it was nonsense.
The above was the incantation that clubs were inherently racist and prejudice by overwhelmingly appointing white managers. That means the owners were being accused of racism if we narrow that back, they are the decision makers.
Yet a quick 30 minute research by myself showed that the % of black managers in the professional game was the exact same as the % that qualified for their licences. There was no issue, yet we had been led to believe for years it was a big one.
So instead of kneeling to make people aware racism is wrong (I’m sure everyone is aware of that), how about pin pointing where in society racism is, how it’s affecting people and narrow it down to individuals or specific laws that are promoting this prejudice? We can then see if it’s the case and if it is, take appropriate action with actual results. Not gestures.
I’m yet to hear any sensible response to that question. |
Interesting. For the sake of clarity, because I've read it a couple of times and I don't think I'm getting it, what you're saying......?
Yet a quick 30 minute research by myself showed that the % of black managers in the professional game was the exact same as the % that qualified for their licences. There was no issue, yet we had been led to believe for years it was a big one.
.... the percentage of 'what' that qualified for their licences? | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 11:36 - Aug 2 with 930 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 11:32 - Aug 2 by ItchySphincter |
Interesting. For the sake of clarity, because I've read it a couple of times and I don't think I'm getting it, what you're saying......?
Yet a quick 30 minute research by myself showed that the % of black managers in the professional game was the exact same as the % that qualified for their licences. There was no issue, yet we had been led to believe for years it was a big one.
.... the percentage of 'what' that qualified for their licences? |
Black managers appointed to clubs is the same % as the black managers than have qualified for their licence.
So while the finger was pointed at racist owners for only 6% of employed managers being black, it turns out that is the same split as the black managers that had their license.
Meaning that % is entirely reflective of the selection pool and nothing to do with racial prejudice.
This sort of false narrative can be blown up absolutely everywhere you look, yet it will still be used as a tool to show how racism is rife. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:00 - Aug 2 with 899 views | dobjack2 |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 09:49 - Aug 2 by onehunglow |
It is now gone past that . It is a show.
Other ways and the best would be to walk off the pitch at any racist crap.Also FIFA should ban for life countries like Serbia,Bulgaria ,Hungary with a history of proven racism.
Anyone can bend a knee.
Anyone |
In what way has it all gone past that? What happened when 3 Black players missed penalties for England?
Racism is stamped on in grounds in the UK but the abuse is still out there. Bit hard to walk off a pitch when you get a load of racist abuse on Social Media.
Agree with you regarding racist abuse from crowds as UEFA/FIFA need to be shamed into taking real action. They are gutless in dealing with repeat offenders. | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:04 - Aug 2 with 885 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:00 - Aug 2 by dobjack2 |
In what way has it all gone past that? What happened when 3 Black players missed penalties for England?
Racism is stamped on in grounds in the UK but the abuse is still out there. Bit hard to walk off a pitch when you get a load of racist abuse on Social Media.
Agree with you regarding racist abuse from crowds as UEFA/FIFA need to be shamed into taking real action. They are gutless in dealing with repeat offenders. |
Walk off social media.
I have, due to the utter nonsense that goes on there. It’s a cesspit.
Easy. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:06 - Aug 2 with 895 views | Treforys_Jack |
You're always going to get a few idiots in the world especially on social media, so instead of getting all outraged and blowing it out of all proportion, how about ignoring it. The media fans the flames and makes it seem a much bigger problem than it actually is. |  | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:47 - Aug 2 with 857 views | onehunglow |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:00 - Aug 2 by dobjack2 |
In what way has it all gone past that? What happened when 3 Black players missed penalties for England?
Racism is stamped on in grounds in the UK but the abuse is still out there. Bit hard to walk off a pitch when you get a load of racist abuse on Social Media.
Agree with you regarding racist abuse from crowds as UEFA/FIFA need to be shamed into taking real action. They are gutless in dealing with repeat offenders. |
To answer your first paragraph,mush celebration in Wales . | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 14:53 - Aug 2 with 848 views | Flashberryjack |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:47 - Aug 2 by onehunglow |
To answer your first paragraph,mush celebration in Wales . |
Would they have had the similar abuse if they were white, I recall Beckham taking some stick as did Southgate and Pearce to name a few. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:35 - Aug 2 with 819 views | dobjack2 |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:47 - Aug 2 by onehunglow |
To answer your first paragraph,mush celebration in Wales . |
And racist abuse online in England- rather missed the point there didn’t you. | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:37 - Aug 2 with 817 views | dobjack2 |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 14:53 - Aug 2 by Flashberryjack |
Would they have had the similar abuse if they were white, I recall Beckham taking some stick as did Southgate and Pearce to name a few. |
If they were White they would have had abuse for missing the penalty but not abuse in relation to the colour of their skin. Missing the point a bit aren’t you. | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:40 - Aug 2 with 816 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 14:53 - Aug 2 by Flashberryjack |
Would they have had the similar abuse if they were white, I recall Beckham taking some stick as did Southgate and Pearce to name a few. |
And Paul bloody Boden, but seriously, it just seems to suit some people agenda's to have I blazoned about racist Britain. Let the authorities hammer any individual caught making racist threats or abuse, but do it in the background. The vast majority of people in the UK are tolerant individual who can see past the colour of people's skin. | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:42 - Aug 2 with 814 views | dobjack2 |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 13:06 - Aug 2 by Treforys_Jack |
You're always going to get a few idiots in the world especially on social media, so instead of getting all outraged and blowing it out of all proportion, how about ignoring it. The media fans the flames and makes it seem a much bigger problem than it actually is. |
Have a word with the players who are racially abused and tell them not to get outraged or to simply ignore it. I’m sure they would be very appreciative of your lack of support. | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:46 - Aug 2 with 811 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:42 - Aug 2 by dobjack2 |
Have a word with the players who are racially abused and tell them not to get outraged or to simply ignore it. I’m sure they would be very appreciative of your lack of support. |
Aye ok, where did I say I don't support them, I just don't think the issue is as big in this country as the media would have you believe. Its imbeciles looking for attention and reaction. Starve them of both. | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 18:30 - Aug 2 with 768 views | Flashberryjack |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:37 - Aug 2 by dobjack2 |
If they were White they would have had abuse for missing the penalty but not abuse in relation to the colour of their skin. Missing the point a bit aren’t you. |
So the abuse was nothing to do with missing the penalties, just about colour?
There will be morons posting racist abuse just as long as morons have platforms to make them on, and taking the knee is one of the platforms that give them oxygen IMO. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 19:14 - Aug 2 with 737 views | dobjack2 |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 18:30 - Aug 2 by Flashberryjack |
So the abuse was nothing to do with missing the penalties, just about colour?
There will be morons posting racist abuse just as long as morons have platforms to make them on, and taking the knee is one of the platforms that give them oxygen IMO. |
Any abuse is uncalled for but Black footballers get an extra level of abuse above and beyond simply missing a penalty because of the colour of their skin.
The morons that give racial abuse need to be tackled on whatever platform they choose to give it. I’m more interested in the message than the way that footballers show their opposition to racist abuse. As a middle aged white male I don’t think it’s either right or appropriate for me to tell footballers of any colour how they ought to oppose racism. | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 19:19 - Aug 2 with 736 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 08:49 - Aug 2 by dobjack2 |
It’s not politics in sport but racism in football that the players are protesting against. You are the one bringing politics into it because you hate BLM.
I don’t care how players protest against the racism that they receive. To me how they protest is very much secondary to the message. As a white middle aged male I don’t believe it’s down to me to tell players who have been racially abused and their colleagues how they should protest. I support our team in whatever way they protest.
Clearly the way they protest is far more important to you than the fact that players are racially abused. You are prepared to boo our players for making a public statement against the racism they receive because of your political views particularly in respect of BLM. Your political views and bias are more important to you than supporting our team in whatever way they choose to highlight the racism players in our team have received.
I find the vitriol in your post quite sad though unsurprising. At least you are being honest in that your politics are more important to you than our own players making a public statement on racial abuse. I take the opposing view that the anti racism message from our players is more important than the way they deliver it.
Again our respective posts say a lot about us as people. |
The footballers and the clubs and the Premier League brought politics into it.
They were the ones tweeting their support for BLM and posting videos of themselves kneeling in support of BLM.
I on the other hand just want to go and watch my home town club...try and imagine for a minute if the team were kneeling in support of the EDL.
Imagine how you would now feel about going to watch your team kneeling for the EDL.
Imagine if when you pointed out the absurdity of Swansea City kneeling for the EDL you had to deal with your fellow fans telling you that you are not wanted if you are not pro kneeling for the EDL, 'this is not your club anymore'.
Think.
I am the one who detests politics in sport as it inevitably divides the audience. Sport is something that was supposed to bring communities together.
...but nobody could talk any sense into you could they? It is impossible for you to admit you are wrong isn't it.
You are a fool. |  |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 19:20 - Aug 2 with 735 views | dobjack2 |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 15:46 - Aug 2 by Treforys_Jack |
Aye ok, where did I say I don't support them, I just don't think the issue is as big in this country as the media would have you believe. Its imbeciles looking for attention and reaction. Starve them of both. |
Sorry I misunderstood your meaning when you posted that they should ignore it and it’s been blown out of all proportion.
I think racism is a pretty big issue for Black footballers. You’ve seen the abuse morons have given our players, have you seen the abuse others like Bayo have had for speaking out about racism? | | | |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 21:26 - Aug 2 with 693 views | Flashberryjack |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 19:20 - Aug 2 by dobjack2 |
Sorry I misunderstood your meaning when you posted that they should ignore it and it’s been blown out of all proportion.
I think racism is a pretty big issue for Black footballers. You’ve seen the abuse morons have given our players, have you seen the abuse others like Bayo have had for speaking out about racism? |
I don't think anyone is arguing that racism isn't a problem, it always will be as long as morons walk this earth.
I think the football authorities have done a pretty good job of stamping it out, from the old days at the Vetch, where it was common, to today at the Liberty, where to date I haven't heard a single racist remark.
As you've gathered, I'm strongly against continuing with taking the knee, just as I'm strongly against discrimination against any creed, colour or religion.
Taking the knee is most definitely causing division at football stadiums, as it is between you and I, the fist of black power is exactly the opposite to white power, can you imagine giving a white fist, and there is absolutely no doubt TTK started with the BLM organisation, no matter how they now try to distance themselves from it.
The people running football have probably by now realised that they've opened a can of worms that they can't put back in the can.
As for fans deciding not to go to games if TTK continues, I can certainly see their point, as it is the only way they can show their feelings, as booing makes you a racist to some.
I may also give some thought to my continued match attendance, i pay my money to watch football, I'm neither a racist or a bigot but it's seems I'll be branded one if I don't support TTK, far easier not to bother. | |
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| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 22:09 - Aug 2 with 676 views | dobjack2 |
| Have We stopped taking the knee ? on 21:26 - Aug 2 by Flashberryjack |
I don't think anyone is arguing that racism isn't a problem, it always will be as long as morons walk this earth.
I think the football authorities have done a pretty good job of stamping it out, from the old days at the Vetch, where it was common, to today at the Liberty, where to date I haven't heard a single racist remark.
As you've gathered, I'm strongly against continuing with taking the knee, just as I'm strongly against discrimination against any creed, colour or religion.
Taking the knee is most definitely causing division at football stadiums, as it is between you and I, the fist of black power is exactly the opposite to white power, can you imagine giving a white fist, and there is absolutely no doubt TTK started with the BLM organisation, no matter how they now try to distance themselves from it.
The people running football have probably by now realised that they've opened a can of worms that they can't put back in the can.
As for fans deciding not to go to games if TTK continues, I can certainly see their point, as it is the only way they can show their feelings, as booing makes you a racist to some.
I may also give some thought to my continued match attendance, i pay my money to watch football, I'm neither a racist or a bigot but it's seems I'll be branded one if I don't support TTK, far easier not to bother. |
I think the difference between us is down to politics.
I see players making an anti-racism stand, you don’t appear to be able to see past BLM.
I haven’t noticed any players taking a knee when the game is going on So your point about paying to watch a football match seems to be irrelevant.
For those that don’t agree with the way in which our players are protesting against racism isn’t it straightforward to just accept that they are protesting against racism and leave your politics outside the ground. That way you can enjoy the game without getting wound up. | | | |
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