| Match thread: Walsall, H 14:01 - Aug 25 with 22748 views | 442Dale |
Subs:
Kgosi Ntlhe
Ryan Delaney
Calvin Andrew
Connor Randall
Bradden Inman
Brendan Moore
Andy Cannon
Not sure why Cannon has been left out. [Post edited 25 Aug 2018 14:03]
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:06 - Aug 25 with 2963 views | dingdangblue |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 19:52 - Aug 25 by 442Dale |
Iād swap ādirectā for ālong ballā, but youāre right. The best Hill sides have always been direct. That doesnāt mean hoofing it, itās moving the ball quickly up the pitch, which can be done with one pass or five or someone carrying the ball forward 30-40 yards.
We allow teams to reset far too often. Itās the latest obsession with ābeating the pressā where teams want to be seen to do that by leaving the opposition open when they try to take it off you at the back. But if that isnāt achieved quickly, it becomes pointless. We certainly didnāt play this way v Spurs, we looked to go forward directly. |
Remember when we got huge joy from Logan going from back to front that season before he got injured. Even before that the Dawson ball from the back to O''Grady on the front left - Hill certainly knows how to mix play up - we certainly need something different at home and I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of new faces coming on loan - some speed for a start as at the minute we have absolutely no one with pace to change things. |  |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:16 - Aug 25 with 2914 views | richfoad32 |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:06 - Aug 25 by dingdangblue |
Remember when we got huge joy from Logan going from back to front that season before he got injured. Even before that the Dawson ball from the back to O''Grady on the front left - Hill certainly knows how to mix play up - we certainly need something different at home and I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of new faces coming on loan - some speed for a start as at the minute we have absolutely no one with pace to change things. |
Don't forget we have yet to see what Dooley can do. By the sounds of it he'll hopefully be involved within the next few weeks. |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:18 - Aug 25 with 2898 views | frenzied |
My first visit to Spotland today.
Walsall were no great shakes at all...we simply never tested them at any stage.
Plenty of effort from our players but no attacking force either from midfield or up front ..we are going to get undone against any opposition with pace up front..twice at the beginning of the second half we were undone with the ball flying across the 6 yard box..a team with a better front man would have buried those chances..
Dissapointed to see/hear that the PA system is still awful..simply destroys the match going experience..cant have a conversation with my pals due to the level of that racket..all i ask is they turn it down a little....
Onward and sideways as always | | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:27 - Aug 25 with 2844 views | Nathaniel82 |
I found it difficult to stomach today. Going one down to a calamitous goal like that after we were controlling the game was a sickener. That feeling of āhere we go againā leaves a bitter taste.
Red card aside, Players like Zeli Ismail are exactly the type of player we should have been fighting tooth and nail for in the close season. Quick, agile and can put it away. He was released by Bury. Iād be very disappointed if weād not even enquiries about him before he buggered off down to Walsall.
Hills tactics are baffling, and players like Cannon, who appear to my untrained eye to perform well every game they play, get left on the bench. I get the feeling Hill is trying to tinker with the team to fit the opposition each game rather than preserving any kind of identity the team may have. And suffering a lack of consistency as a consequence. Weāre playing counter tactics to opposition rather than playing our game, with tweaks to the opposition. Again, this is my untrained opinion. [Post edited 25 Aug 2018 20:29]
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:27 - Aug 25 with 2844 views | 49thseason |
Calvin Andrew will never be a centre forward if he plays for the next 100 seasons. he seems a very nice guy, but I don't want a "nice guy" leading the forward line, I want a complete menace, someone who never gives the opposition defenders a moments respite, someone who can anticipate a cross coming in and runs to meet it, someone who takes responsibility for scoring goals and shoots on sight, someone who flattens the opposition centre-half in the first minute just to let him know its a battle, not chess.
Hill hasn't signed a "proper" forward since he brought Holt back to the club for a final hurrah, and it worked wonders. We are currently playing with forwards who spend most of the match facing their own goal, who are statuesque when our defence or midfield is looking for an outlet and who lack the pace and confidence to take players on and create an opportunity. its been like this for a season and a half at least and if anything it's getting worse.
This has all the makings of another difficult season. I can't point to any of the new signings and think that they are a dramatic improvement. I am no great fan of Cannon but, he brings energy and aggression things I don't feel we are getting from Perkins. Wilbraham looks like he is out for an afternoon jog, no pace, hardly uses his size and until he got his head on the cross late on when we scored was totally anonymous.
If we are to continue to play with 2 wingbacks, can we please find a couple who are prepared to take on the occasional defender and put in a cross? How many times did they get the ball in space and then turn and pass it backwards? We made 9 passes at the start of the second half without getting out of our own half of the pitch and when the ball eventually arrived at the halfway we lost it!
So that's now 9 wins in the last 36 home games and the manager wonders why the fans are getting pissed off. I think, Keith, its time for a large-scale re-evaluation of what sort of team we all want to see, you know, perhaps one where defenders do the defending and attackers actually run at the opposition with a view to putting the ball in the onion bag. it doesn't have to be complicated but it does need pace, aggression and guts.
Oh and exactly why did we need another right back? We have Rafferty who is adequate, we signed Finnerty in the summer, we have Cannon if required, we have McGahey if needed, and now we have another one when what we really needed was a left back where we currently rely on Dozy and Done neither of whom currently give the impression of being able to defend or when attacking, beat a player. The only good news is that it can't get much worse.
Oh, and a special mention for whoever cut the wire to the PA system in the Sandy at half time.... well done! |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:33 - Aug 25 with 2811 views | Shun |
With regards to formation, 442 got it spot on when he said we no longer play a 532 anymore, itās a 541, with Wilbraham on his own up front and Henderson in midfield, and itās highly ineffective. Itās one of the reasons weāve been controlling possession in games yet looking toothless. When weāve looked most effective is usually when we bring Andrew on. Generally thatās because at that stage weāre usually losing so Hill sacrifices a midfielder and switches to a front 3 of Andrew, Wilbraham and Henderson. So itās less to do with going long as a few people have said and more to do with the switch to a front 3. |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:03 - Aug 25 with 2713 views | regjenkins |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:27 - Aug 25 by 49thseason |
Calvin Andrew will never be a centre forward if he plays for the next 100 seasons. he seems a very nice guy, but I don't want a "nice guy" leading the forward line, I want a complete menace, someone who never gives the opposition defenders a moments respite, someone who can anticipate a cross coming in and runs to meet it, someone who takes responsibility for scoring goals and shoots on sight, someone who flattens the opposition centre-half in the first minute just to let him know its a battle, not chess.
Hill hasn't signed a "proper" forward since he brought Holt back to the club for a final hurrah, and it worked wonders. We are currently playing with forwards who spend most of the match facing their own goal, who are statuesque when our defence or midfield is looking for an outlet and who lack the pace and confidence to take players on and create an opportunity. its been like this for a season and a half at least and if anything it's getting worse.
This has all the makings of another difficult season. I can't point to any of the new signings and think that they are a dramatic improvement. I am no great fan of Cannon but, he brings energy and aggression things I don't feel we are getting from Perkins. Wilbraham looks like he is out for an afternoon jog, no pace, hardly uses his size and until he got his head on the cross late on when we scored was totally anonymous.
If we are to continue to play with 2 wingbacks, can we please find a couple who are prepared to take on the occasional defender and put in a cross? How many times did they get the ball in space and then turn and pass it backwards? We made 9 passes at the start of the second half without getting out of our own half of the pitch and when the ball eventually arrived at the halfway we lost it!
So that's now 9 wins in the last 36 home games and the manager wonders why the fans are getting pissed off. I think, Keith, its time for a large-scale re-evaluation of what sort of team we all want to see, you know, perhaps one where defenders do the defending and attackers actually run at the opposition with a view to putting the ball in the onion bag. it doesn't have to be complicated but it does need pace, aggression and guts.
Oh and exactly why did we need another right back? We have Rafferty who is adequate, we signed Finnerty in the summer, we have Cannon if required, we have McGahey if needed, and now we have another one when what we really needed was a left back where we currently rely on Dozy and Done neither of whom currently give the impression of being able to defend or when attacking, beat a player. The only good news is that it can't get much worse.
Oh, and a special mention for whoever cut the wire to the PA system in the Sandy at half time.... well done! |
Nice post. I can't disagree with any of that post 49er. |  |
| ' I started out with nothing and i still got most of it left' |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:04 - Aug 25 with 2709 views | nordenblue |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:33 - Aug 25 by Shun |
With regards to formation, 442 got it spot on when he said we no longer play a 532 anymore, itās a 541, with Wilbraham on his own up front and Henderson in midfield, and itās highly ineffective. Itās one of the reasons weāve been controlling possession in games yet looking toothless. When weāve looked most effective is usually when we bring Andrew on. Generally thatās because at that stage weāre usually losing so Hill sacrifices a midfielder and switches to a front 3 of Andrew, Wilbraham and Henderson. So itās less to do with going long as a few people have said and more to do with the switch to a front 3. |
Are we currently that shite we need to use 5 at the back especially at home,it just smacks of being scared to death of the opposition,even more so when the 2 "wing backs"(Done/Hendo!!!) are the 2 most likely to find a goal at the other end. | | | |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:14 - Aug 25 with 2661 views | 442Dale |
re. The mention of the PA speakers breaking in the Sandy. Possibly the most refreshing occurrence at home this season. The volume levels had reached silly levels again before it went.
Such a blow as we all wanted to hear again about the āproperā club websites and social media accounts. | |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:23 - Aug 25 with 2615 views | Swissdale |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:04 - Aug 25 by nordenblue |
Are we currently that shite we need to use 5 at the back especially at home,it just smacks of being scared to death of the opposition,even more so when the 2 "wing backs"(Done/Hendo!!!) are the 2 most likely to find a goal at the other end. |
If you think Matty Done is one of our more likely players to find the net, you clearly havenāt seen much of him since he came back from Sheffield. Heās much less consistent, a poorer crosser, and less attacking than Raff.
Not that I disagree with the point, but it shows how desperate we are getting when we think Calvin Andrew starting gives us a better chance of scoring goals.
Nice football with no end product has been our problem spanning two seasons, and nothing at the moment is suggesting that will change. |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:28 - Aug 25 with 2595 views | rorydale |
I'm a Country Season ticket holder and made my first trip of the season today. My first game was in 1999 and I try to get a few games a season in, I haven't managed as many in last two or three years due to work but the season ticket deal was too good to miss.
My take for what it's worth is:
The team play much more attractive football than when I started watching them. I agree with others who said they would rather see us play like that than hoof it style football. I think the main problem is the pace of play. Games I saw previously we have been shifting the ball quickly and hitting sides at speed. The problem seems to be a lack of movement up front and a lack of confidence in striking cross field balls early that might catch the opposition out.
Everytime I see Camps I think he is technically better than most of the players and that when he sat at the base of the midfield he looks likely to make things happen but I do worry that criticism is making him think twice about making the killer pass (not that I am saying we shouldn't criticise, just saying it may be a reason play slows down).
In this system the two wing backs have to work their bollocks off a la Young and Trippier for England and I don't think Done is capable of doing so, he doesn't have the pace or the intensity to keep going forward.
The centre halves all do good things but again lack of pace means they don't recover from errors. Wilbraham up front was not good. For a supposed target man he barely left the ground and did not look up for a battle at all until 2-0 down. The forwards simply don't make enough movement to threaten getting behind the back four and therefore we never get a clean shot off.
If Hill wants to play this system he needs to find a solution at LWB and a mobile forward even if it isn't a goalscorer just someone to threaten getting in behind. My lineup would be as follows:
GK Norman/Lillis
MaGahey Williams McNulty
Rafferty and a LWB as attacking wing backs
Camps
Rathbone Adshead - more pace and need to work like Lingard and Alli, buzzing in and around the box and creating movement and a link with the forwards
Inman Henderson - both playing up top and looking to move off the ball and into the box
Apologise for long post! | | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:41 - Aug 25 with 2536 views | nordenblue |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:23 - Aug 25 by Swissdale |
If you think Matty Done is one of our more likely players to find the net, you clearly havenāt seen much of him since he came back from Sheffield. Heās much less consistent, a poorer crosser, and less attacking than Raff.
Not that I disagree with the point, but it shows how desperate we are getting when we think Calvin Andrew starting gives us a better chance of scoring goals.
Nice football with no end product has been our problem spanning two seasons, and nothing at the moment is suggesting that will change. |
Most players struggle finding the net while playing left back all the time tbf, the same applies for Hendo he won't score many either playing right back or centre mid however good he may be.
Doney certainly hasn't turned into a crap player over a few months,there's silly formations to battle through and a manager intent on causing confusion all over the pitch, it's hardly a surprise he looks a shadow of what he was,a lot of the starting 11 currently do. | | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:56 - Aug 25 with 2467 views | Sandyman |
As 49thseason said, " 9 wins in the last 36 home games and the manager wonders why the fans are getting pissed off" .
25% win record at home over more than a season is not on. Has the mojo been lost? Is Baldy Mourhino after a pay-off like t'other Mourhino ? It's rank to watch. The "poor little Rochdale" / "budget" (despite a 30% increase in the playing budget) arguments are feeble and self-destructive. Far better that we play and take on the money boys, show some guts and beat them as we have done in the past, as have other clubs, instead of wallowing in the pitiful, negative misery that some seem to like.
Time for RAFC to show some bravery, character and determination. If the current manager can't make that happen anymore........ |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 22:19 - Aug 25 with 2386 views | DaleiLama |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 18:37 - Aug 25 by kiwidale |
I recall the same comments last season i.e. "we are not a bad side" "we look good in parts" "we just need to find the right formation" etc etc etc well it got worse then and no sign it will get better this season. Yes I am negative right now very much the glass is half empty its just one opinion that I will be happy to be proven wrong on.
edit
that wasn't meant to be addressed to your post just a general comment [Post edited 25 Aug 2018 18:40]
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Not seen this answered yet so I'll take it. I don't necessarily disagree with your point. Last year we looked thin squadwise and we were short of confidence and goals and inspiration and ....... You get the drift.
Fast forward to this season and all the recruitment was done before training camp and we looked much better on paper. As mentioned in a previous thread though, several if not all players are performing "below how they can play".
Reasons can be put forward; players out of position, formation, instructions etc etc. Bottom line is we've seen many of these players do better in different circumstances. The flip side is a famous NFL quote (Bill Parcells) which says you are exactly as good as your record says you are.At the moment we are not good. Keith has to now turn this around by getting the best out of the players,at his disposal. He is undoubtedly falling to do so at present. |  |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 22:33 - Aug 25 with 2349 views | kiwidale |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 21:56 - Aug 25 by Sandyman |
As 49thseason said, " 9 wins in the last 36 home games and the manager wonders why the fans are getting pissed off" .
25% win record at home over more than a season is not on. Has the mojo been lost? Is Baldy Mourhino after a pay-off like t'other Mourhino ? It's rank to watch. The "poor little Rochdale" / "budget" (despite a 30% increase in the playing budget) arguments are feeble and self-destructive. Far better that we play and take on the money boys, show some guts and beat them as we have done in the past, as have other clubs, instead of wallowing in the pitiful, negative misery that some seem to like.
Time for RAFC to show some bravery, character and determination. If the current manager can't make that happen anymore........ |
Its still early days to compare but Coleman at Accy is doing ok with a lower budget than ours, the argument that we cant compete because of budget that keeps getting trotted out is tedious. If budget determined the league table it would save a lot of trouble. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 22:37 - Aug 25 with 2330 views | DaleiLama |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 19:03 - Aug 25 by TVOS1907 |
Manuel, like Messi, was from Barcelona. |
Did you learn that from a book? | |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 22:40 - Aug 25 with 2312 views | soulboy |
These are the main resons in my opinion for our dissapointing start. The centre of defence very vunerable at corners and every other set piece we concede, with only Mcgahey being anywhere near the standard required. Perkins has lost a good yard of pace and is only a shadow of the player he was in his first spell. Rathdone, again not the player he was when he burst into the first team two years ago, it appears the opposition have found him out and at present doesnt warrant his place in the starting line up. Wibraham, a decenrt first game at Burton but, as has been pointed out on here several times, appears to be going through the motions. The Walsall defender marking him today could have played in his best suit. Inman and Williams, both plenty of skill but has either any fight in them when the going gets tough as it is now? The team is crying out for Cannon to start and Hendo pushed further up front, his immense skills are being wasted at present. KH will get it right, im sure of that, but the current situation shows that there are problems in every area of the team. [Post edited 25 Aug 2018 22:42]
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 22:47 - Aug 25 with 2283 views | 1907 |
Iāve been saying for months that five at the back doesnāt work at home for me:
Keeper
Raff
Mcgahey
MJ Williams
Done
Camps
Perkins
Rathbone
Andrew
Hendo
Inman
This is the only chance weāve got of going down | | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 22:55 - Aug 25 with 2261 views | 442Dale |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 22:47 - Aug 25 by 1907 |
Iāve been saying for months that five at the back doesnāt work at home for me:
Keeper
Raff
Mcgahey
MJ Williams
Done
Camps
Perkins
Rathbone
Andrew
Hendo
Inman
This is the only chance weāve got of going down |
It certainly doesnāt without two forwards or a midfield three with no forward momentum. Itās getting to the point where itās a struggle to work out whatās best, some will say we are only a few games in but the plethora of changes in such a short space of time is what makes any sort of structure impossible to establish.
We need a signing up front this week to lift people. | |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 23:11 - Aug 25 with 2228 views | macro |
Mistakes change games, horrendous one by the keeper.
Today though Dale were too ponderous, slow going forward, lacked ideas. Wilbraham did nothing for 80 minutes but give away stupid free kicks. Dale used to thrive and be threatening with pace along the flanks, that seems to have vanished recently, hopefully Dooley will be fit soon as he's meant to have a bit of pace and hopefully someone will come in as well to add more of a threat. To be honest today both teams looked dreadful but I reckon every goal at home conceded so far has been from defensive frailties. On my so many excuses can be made. |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 23:12 - Aug 25 with 2226 views | BigDaveMyCock |
You just knew Andy Cannon was getting the chop today after he was subbed on Tuesday. If I was to take my Dale hat off, and be totally objective, Iād suggest he move because his career is stalling under Hill. Whether itās him or Hill I donāt know but thereās a good player there who we desperately need but it just isnāt happening.
It is, however, obvious that certain players are judged on a different criteria than others and I do have a degree of sympathy with Cannon here. He and Raff, for example, donāt have to do much wrong to get benched whereas Perkins, Williams and Done, on ther hand, are allowed bad games. Thatās ok if youāre winnng but looks like petty favouritism when youāre not. [Post edited 25 Aug 2018 23:13]
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 23:20 - Aug 25 with 2192 views | RotherhamDale |
I don't like the 5-3-2 shape we're currently stuck with. I know it got us out of the do-do last year, but it's crap. We don't have two front men up front who cause enough problems going towards the opposition goal.
Our best football and best seasons have come when we've played a 4-3-3/4-5-1. We've had wingers who have caused problems. Whether that's Mendez Laing running at players, or Vincenti dominating the full back physically and in the air.
Surely it's worth a try with the shape again.
Lillis/Norman/Whoever
Rafferty, Mcgahey, Mcnulty/Delaney, Done
Camps, perkins, rathbone/cannon
Andrew, Wilbraham, Hendo.
Even Joey T offers an option out wide. Then we have Dooley who hasn't even played yet. |  |
| Possession with progression. |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 23:46 - Aug 25 with 2132 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 18:40 - Aug 25 by rochdaleriddler |
No he shouldnāt , we are pedestrian because of his geriatric signings, and his crap tactics |
Thereās only one geriatric in here old man |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 00:04 - Aug 26 with 2109 views | blackvincent |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:27 - Aug 25 by Nathaniel82 |
I found it difficult to stomach today. Going one down to a calamitous goal like that after we were controlling the game was a sickener. That feeling of āhere we go againā leaves a bitter taste.
Red card aside, Players like Zeli Ismail are exactly the type of player we should have been fighting tooth and nail for in the close season. Quick, agile and can put it away. He was released by Bury. Iād be very disappointed if weād not even enquiries about him before he buggered off down to Walsall.
Hills tactics are baffling, and players like Cannon, who appear to my untrained eye to perform well every game they play, get left on the bench. I get the feeling Hill is trying to tinker with the team to fit the opposition each game rather than preserving any kind of identity the team may have. And suffering a lack of consistency as a consequence. Weāre playing counter tactics to opposition rather than playing our game, with tweaks to the opposition. Again, this is my untrained opinion. [Post edited 25 Aug 2018 20:29]
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One of the best posts this evening, good points well made.
The whole thing is made unnecessarily overcomplicated to our detriment by the tactics we employ which seem to be totally absolute and inflexible, hence their first gift goal today.. We need to show some belief in our abilities and release the players into what they are capable of, they appear to be hidebound by an obsession with the limits placed upon them, scared to death of breaking the tedious mould of unadventurous possession football. Cannon as an example, is a positive force which is denied its opportunity because it perhaps may not quite fit, he should fit. We need to release the potential that we clearly have and enable the players to believe in themselves, they are good enough. Pick the best players in their best positions and give them the freedom to play. . | | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 00:08 - Aug 26 with 2100 views | judd |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 00:04 - Aug 26 by blackvincent |
One of the best posts this evening, good points well made.
The whole thing is made unnecessarily overcomplicated to our detriment by the tactics we employ which seem to be totally absolute and inflexible, hence their first gift goal today.. We need to show some belief in our abilities and release the players into what they are capable of, they appear to be hidebound by an obsession with the limits placed upon them, scared to death of breaking the tedious mould of unadventurous possession football. Cannon as an example, is a positive force which is denied its opportunity because it perhaps may not quite fit, he should fit. We need to release the potential that we clearly have and enable the players to believe in themselves, they are good enough. Pick the best players in their best positions and give them the freedom to play. . |
Stop talking sense. It hurts |  |
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