| Have the Americans spent any money? 12:29 - Jul 23 with 12289 views | deanscfc |
Last season, if i remember correctly, we were the only team to make a net profit on transfers with the Americans refusing to put their hand in their pockets. As a result we struggled and would have gone down were it not for a couple of key players.
If rumors are anything to go by it now seems that we may be willing to sell those key players for a price so that yet again the Americans can make a nice little profit and the expense of the club and the fans. Last year they will have had a scare but in the end were able to make a nice return on their investment with some of the sky money. I can't help thinking that unless we both keep our key players AND spend in key areas that the Americans are starting to take the p*ss... |  | | |  |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 14:59 - Jul 23 with 2055 views | raynor94 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 14:52 - Jul 23 by Chief |
No, despite Huws claims I didn't expect them to put any money in. And so far this theory has been correct. Not fifty fifty no, far from it. The negatives unfortunately outweigh the positives so far. |
Thanks for your replies, time will tell, the next six weeks are going to be very interesting |  |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:01 - Jul 23 with 2046 views | waynekerr55 |
But,but,but - Chris Wathan said they invested... |  |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:04 - Jul 23 with 2040 views | E20Jack |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 13:26 - Jul 23 by raynor94 |
£9 million then |
That £9m would have probably covered all the outlay at the time (first installment, agents fees, signing on fees etc). The cost of the £20m is spread. |  |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:06 - Jul 23 with 2030 views | EasternJack |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 12:57 - Jul 23 by Chief |
No they didn't. As discussed previously the January signings we funded via a loan taken out against the club. They've spent £0 of their own cash on the team / facilities which makes a mockery of Huw's "we need investment to go to the next level" justification for selling out |
Catch 22, right?
If the new owners inject new capital into the club then there would be an expectation for other shareholders to match b a %age basis.
Let's say they throw in £20M, does the trust have ~£4M lying around somewhere?
No other option than to go down the credit basis. At least they're doing that directly and not via a loaded loan from themselves |  |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:09 - Jul 23 with 2021 views | Yossarian |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:06 - Jul 23 by EasternJack |
Catch 22, right?
If the new owners inject new capital into the club then there would be an expectation for other shareholders to match b a %age basis.
Let's say they throw in £20M, does the trust have ~£4M lying around somewhere?
No other option than to go down the credit basis. At least they're doing that directly and not via a loaded loan from themselves |
That isn't a Catch-22 |  |
| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:10 - Jul 23 with 2019 views | dobjack2 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:09 - Jul 23 by Yossarian |
That isn't a Catch-22 |
And you are someone who should know that. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:34 - Jul 23 with 1993 views | EasternJack |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:09 - Jul 23 by Yossarian |
That isn't a Catch-22 |
It sort of is when you consider it from the perspective of the fans (and by association, the trust) that are moaning about investment. They want the Americans to invest, but that can't happen unless the fans (trust) also invests (or accepts share dilution), but regardless of that they still want the Americans to invest - that's the paradox. I understand why you don't get it - reading most of these comments suggests most don't. | |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:45 - Jul 23 with 1974 views | dobjack2 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:34 - Jul 23 by EasternJack |
It sort of is when you consider it from the perspective of the fans (and by association, the trust) that are moaning about investment. They want the Americans to invest, but that can't happen unless the fans (trust) also invests (or accepts share dilution), but regardless of that they still want the Americans to invest - that's the paradox. I understand why you don't get it - reading most of these comments suggests most don't. |
I get your point.
I am sure that there are some that thought that the Americans would be sugar daddies and gift funds to the club but I expect that the majority (if they even thought about it) expected that the Americans investment would be in the way of some serviceable debt that would somehow be paid off when the club wAs next sold. I think some people were expecting a lot more transfer business - not like Everton but a lot more than has happened.
Not many would have foreseen business as usual, trying to balance the books on transfers, reduce outgoings on wages and increase commercial income based on the next level bs spouted by our chairman. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 21:09 - Jul 23 with 1884 views | Croftyjack |
seems to be a pattern...last season our best player(Ashley) and top scorer(Ayew) were sold and this season looks like our best player(Siggi) and top scorer(Llorente) will be sold.
Can you keep getting away with it,, well um no last season we just did and this, we will just have to wait and see.
If its Bony and Roberts(loan) as replacements with not much else then must be bye bye. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 21:27 - Jul 23 with 1876 views | londonlisa2001 |
It wasn't a loan as such.
They sold the future payments due from West Ham on the transfer of Ayew to Santander for a discounted up front receipt.
The club get the money, Santander get a fee, West Ham now owe money to Santander.
Unless we can match the outflow for the Siggy replacements with the inflow from Siggy, I imagine they'll do the same. Really common in football. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 21:35 - Jul 23 with 1857 views | jack247 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:45 - Jul 23 by dobjack2 |
I get your point.
I am sure that there are some that thought that the Americans would be sugar daddies and gift funds to the club but I expect that the majority (if they even thought about it) expected that the Americans investment would be in the way of some serviceable debt that would somehow be paid off when the club wAs next sold. I think some people were expecting a lot more transfer business - not like Everton but a lot more than has happened.
Not many would have foreseen business as usual, trying to balance the books on transfers, reduce outgoings on wages and increase commercial income based on the next level bs spouted by our chairman. |
Nobody thought that apart from the very deluded. And Huw Jenkins apparently.
Still, it looks as if they are doing a better job of balancing the books than most, including me, originally thought they would, | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 22:04 - Jul 23 with 1837 views | Davillin |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 21:35 - Jul 23 by jack247 |
Nobody thought that apart from the very deluded. And Huw Jenkins apparently.
Still, it looks as if they are doing a better job of balancing the books than most, including me, originally thought they would, |
There must be dozens of "old saws" which insist that you not "count your chickens before they're hatched."
The worst is yet to come, and only the naïve will believe otherwise.
Frankly, I'm tired of repeating this warning. |  |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 22:12 - Jul 23 with 1828 views | jack247 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 22:04 - Jul 23 by Davillin |
There must be dozens of "old saws" which insist that you not "count your chickens before they're hatched."
The worst is yet to come, and only the naïve will believe otherwise.
Frankly, I'm tired of repeating this warning. |
Speak in English man, you don't need a proverb to state an opinion.
The 'worst' will or will not come with the next owners. These guys aren't looking to asset strip us or take us to the champions league. They want to keep us where we are without dipping into their own pockets until the time comes they can flip us for a profit. I'm sure they don't care who they sell to or what happens to us after that, but it's not in their interests to shaft us while they are here. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 03:44 - Jul 24 with 1784 views | Davillin |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 22:12 - Jul 23 by jack247 |
Speak in English man, you don't need a proverb to state an opinion.
The 'worst' will or will not come with the next owners. These guys aren't looking to asset strip us or take us to the champions league. They want to keep us where we are without dipping into their own pockets until the time comes they can flip us for a profit. I'm sure they don't care who they sell to or what happens to us after that, but it's not in their interests to shaft us while they are here. |
Please don't lecture me on my use of the English language or how I "state an opinion." Thank you.
Your statement in the rest of your post is pure Pollyannaish. | |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 06:28 - Jul 24 with 1752 views | jack247 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 03:44 - Jul 24 by Davillin |
Please don't lecture me on my use of the English language or how I "state an opinion." Thank you.
Your statement in the rest of your post is pure Pollyannaish. |
It's a football website, not poets corner. Is that how you speak to your mates in the pub? I have no idea what pollyannaish means, I'm going to take an educated guess at naive or optimistic.
If that's the case, I'll take it on the chin, but don't get all pissy next time I call one of your football opinions naive or simplistic. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 06:42 - Jul 24 with 1743 views | Dr_Winston |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 15:45 - Jul 23 by dobjack2 |
I get your point.
I am sure that there are some that thought that the Americans would be sugar daddies and gift funds to the club but I expect that the majority (if they even thought about it) expected that the Americans investment would be in the way of some serviceable debt that would somehow be paid off when the club wAs next sold. I think some people were expecting a lot more transfer business - not like Everton but a lot more than has happened.
Not many would have foreseen business as usual, trying to balance the books on transfers, reduce outgoings on wages and increase commercial income based on the next level bs spouted by our chairman. |
Your last paragraph is exactly what the Americans said they would do once they got their feet under the table. Frankly it's also what I hoped they would do as the idea of "investment" usually comes with all sorts of strings and the whole concept bothered me greatly.
Jenkins, Dineen and co were full of shit to make them selling up seem like a selfless act. That "next level" nonsense should have been treated with contempt as soon as the Noell/Moores deal was seen off. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 06:50 - Jul 24 with 1736 views | dobjack2 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 21:35 - Jul 23 by jack247 |
Nobody thought that apart from the very deluded. And Huw Jenkins apparently.
Still, it looks as if they are doing a better job of balancing the books than most, including me, originally thought they would, |
I have to disagree, unless you mean that there are a lot of very deluded people out there. I find the views of people who post on this forum to be in a minority
Many that I work with bought into the next level bs. Most don't understand why we have new owners but the squad has not been overhauled. They don't get what our majority owners are about and still trust in our chairman.
The sell outs and new majority owners got their spin out with the aid of a non-invesigative press that didn't look behind the next level bs. That spin has only been challenged on forums which the majority don't visit. They get their information from the press and repeat it in pubs clubs and workplaces across the area.
They are doing a good job of balancing the transfer books at the moment as there are players to move on. I assume sigurdsson will be off, probably llorente to. It is how they are replaced that is important.
That only leaves Mawson in my eyes as a coveted player at the moment. Depends on how the transfermoney we get in is spent but the names we are currently linked with may not have huge sell on value. Unless our acquisitions are much better than they have been it isn't sustainable over more than a couple of seasons. I expect them to try and improve the commercial side then flip within a couple of years. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 06:53 - Jul 24 with 1733 views | jack247 |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 06:42 - Jul 24 by Dr_Winston |
Your last paragraph is exactly what the Americans said they would do once they got their feet under the table. Frankly it's also what I hoped they would do as the idea of "investment" usually comes with all sorts of strings and the whole concept bothered me greatly.
Jenkins, Dineen and co were full of shit to make them selling up seem like a selfless act. That "next level" nonsense should have been treated with contempt as soon as the Noell/Moores deal was seen off. |
As it was by pretty much everyone to be fair. These guys made a hell of a mistake with the Bradley debacle, but other than that seem to be running the club better than the previous regime,
Of course, we are just another bog standard football club now. That's the only thing that still bothers me about the sellouts selling out. | | | |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 07:01 - Jul 24 with 1725 views | Dr_Winston |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 06:53 - Jul 24 by jack247 |
As it was by pretty much everyone to be fair. These guys made a hell of a mistake with the Bradley debacle, but other than that seem to be running the club better than the previous regime,
Of course, we are just another bog standard football club now. That's the only thing that still bothers me about the sellouts selling out. |
For the most part it's too early to tell if the club is running any better. There's been some good (the sidelining of Dineen, the refusal to sell Siggy on the cheap) and some bad (Bradley!) but overall it's too soon to form any definitive conclusions.
The remainder of this transfer window will go a hell of a long way towards giving us some idea as to whether we're going to be back on an upward trajectory. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 07:30 - Jul 24 with 1707 views | EasternJack |
I always read the "next level" story to be about better developing and leveraging of commercial opportunities.
Can anyone point me to a quote by HJ or the Americans where they said they would bring new capital into the club? In fact, I recall the message was very clear about continuing on the self sufficiency route...
I guess people read what they want to believe | |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 07:41 - Jul 24 with 1691 views | longlostjack |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 07:30 - Jul 24 by EasternJack |
I always read the "next level" story to be about better developing and leveraging of commercial opportunities.
Can anyone point me to a quote by HJ or the Americans where they said they would bring new capital into the club? In fact, I recall the message was very clear about continuing on the self sufficiency route...
I guess people read what they want to believe |
Their PR machine was spearheaded by Chris Wathan who certainly talked about direct investment and access to funds.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/swansea-city-taken-ove |  |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 08:11 - Jul 24 with 1659 views | felixstowe_jack |
All clubs fund transfer by taking out loans or using cash generated from operating profits. They don't have magic money trees. | |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 08:34 - Jul 24 with 1636 views | longlostjack |
| Have the Americans spent any money? on 08:11 - Jul 24 by felixstowe_jack |
All clubs fund transfer by taking out loans or using cash generated from operating profits. They don't have magic money trees. |
Of course but that is not what was being implied at the time though was it? | |
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| Have the Americans spent any money? on 08:56 - Jul 24 with 1609 views | felixstowe_jack |
Nothing was implied it was the Club 65% owned by the Americans who spent £20m buying four players in January. | |
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