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LC is a no no in my opinion. If we move there our club will die. The infrastructure for getting there is almost non existent. It would cause traffic chaos.
An interesting section in the minutes of the Supporters consultation committee which were published by the club today
Lee Hoos was asked about the situation with the new training ground , the discussion moved on to " a Bond issue ", Which in his words could raise £7 to £10 million toward the expected £16 to £17 million cost of the project
It would seem the owners are now not willing to finance this either
We might not like it but the move is inevitable for the future of the club I feel. Just looking at the below video shows how far behind we are falling (Brentford getting ahead of us in all areas now is a worry) . As romantic as LR is for us the big clubs are getting bigger and we are in danger of being cast into the shadows(not now but in 10-20 years). Being London based is our biggest attraction but also a downfall in terms of securing real estate to make this move as LR is not suitable. It has to be somewhere in the borough and the only option looks to be the LC stadium.
We might not like it but the move is inevitable for the future of the club I feel. Just looking at the below video shows how far behind we are falling (Brentford getting ahead of us in all areas now is a worry) . As romantic as LR is for us the big clubs are getting bigger and we are in danger of being cast into the shadows(not now but in 10-20 years). Being London based is our biggest attraction but also a downfall in terms of securing real estate to make this move as LR is not suitable. It has to be somewhere in the borough and the only option looks to be the LC stadium.
It's important we keep up certainly.
'Only option' postions rarely work out though.
And I still cant imaging QPR playing anywhere but Loftus Road.
How many houses on Ellersie Road would £17 Million buy currently?
LC is a no no in my opinion. If we move there our club will die. The infrastructure for getting there is almost non existent. It would cause traffic chaos.
Only about a 10 minute walk from White City tube, Spurs building double the capacity and Seven Sisters is about 20 mins away.
Parking probably on a par with Spurs though, non existent.
Does anybody use Scrubs Park any more these days? Sunday football, I thought, was in decline and weekdays as far back as the late 60's it was only dog walkers.
Recall as kids we used to play football up there in the school holidays and thought the blokes watching us from behind trees were scouting for talent. Apparently they were, but from a totally different perspective.
And I still cant imaging QPR playing anywhere but Loftus Road.
How many houses on Ellersie Road would £17 Million buy currently?
Would love to stay at LR of course and this topic has been done to death but If we were to look into Ellerslie road at a guess them houses go for 2m+. Would one side of the road do? Would there be planning objections for those on the other side of the street? We do just need a stadium and not apartments and and hotels like others seem to be doing these days so a smaller space is feasible.
I want QPR to be there for my future offspring and relations to support. Ive just "forced" us on my two nephews at 3 and 5 who are now wearing their kits as much as possible into there creche/school in Cork :P (i'm sure it will make them tougher being QPR fans :P)
But in all seriousness this is a crucial time for us I feel. Keep going the way we are going and its not looking good. The training ground and stadium upgrades are essential to our survival considering what others are doing. I don't want us to be one of the sad stories of the future. I'm hoping the current owners can fulfill this, if not being a London club does make us attractive to other investors. Rich owners may abuse us but at the same time we need them to make this happen.
Would love to stay at LR of course and this topic has been done to death but If we were to look into Ellerslie road at a guess them houses go for 2m+. Would one side of the road do? Would there be planning objections for those on the other side of the street? We do just need a stadium and not apartments and and hotels like others seem to be doing these days so a smaller space is feasible.
I want QPR to be there for my future offspring and relations to support. Ive just "forced" us on my two nephews at 3 and 5 who are now wearing their kits as much as possible into there creche/school in Cork :P (i'm sure it will make them tougher being QPR fans :P)
But in all seriousness this is a crucial time for us I feel. Keep going the way we are going and its not looking good. The training ground and stadium upgrades are essential to our survival considering what others are doing. I don't want us to be one of the sad stories of the future. I'm hoping the current owners can fulfill this, if not being a London club does make us attractive to other investors. Rich owners may abuse us but at the same time we need them to make this happen.
Yeah, we've done this to death over the years, sooner or later we'll have to go I guess. Impossible to imagine but it will.
Only about a 10 minute walk from White City tube, Spurs building double the capacity and Seven Sisters is about 20 mins away.
Parking probably on a par with Spurs though, non existent.
Does anybody use Scrubs Park any more these days? Sunday football, I thought, was in decline and weekdays as far back as the late 60's it was only dog walkers.
Recall as kids we used to play football up there in the school holidays and thought the blokes watching us from behind trees were scouting for talent. Apparently they were, but from a totally different perspective.
I can't help feeling that Spurs getting themselves sorted out on and off the pitch is a big threat to other clubs in London.
An interesting section in the minutes of the Supporters consultation committee which were published by the club today
Lee Hoos was asked about the situation with the new training ground , the discussion moved on to " a Bond issue ", Which in his words could raise £7 to £10 million toward the expected £16 to £17 million cost of the project
It would seem the owners are now not willing to finance this either
Copied and pasted from a Facebook group
If they are looking to raise capital through Bond issuance I think that is a real concern as it might be the mask slipping a little.
The board have stated in the past, I believe, that any new stadium wouldn't be owned by the club directly (all above board of course, just accounting prudence etc.). So I wonder, if they aren't prepared to fund a £15m training facility what is the intention with a new stadium? I would suggest either (1) it is never going to/was never going to happen (i.e all hot air and spin), or, more concerning (2) if it does happen it will be funded and owned by a 'friendly' third party. Loftus Road will be sold for re-development thereby covering the losses they've 'written off' so far (I'm guessing redevelopment value of prime West London land is significantly higher than the book value as a sports venue) and we will be left with a Coventry situation where we are having to rent our home ground? Fine, perhaps, in the short-term but what about a few years down the line when ownership etc. changes?
It could be that TF really is just a well meaning fool, prepared to write off £100s of millions of his own money on his own mistakes, or is he a ruthless businessman who will look to recoup his losses?
Personally I would apply for new development rights at Loftus Road. Buy out residents behind the Loft and redevelop that site. Then dig down, build up and create stadium, facilities and new houses. We will never need a ground that holds more than 25,000 people. Not in any of our lifetimes anyway.
LCS could be a good option although I struggle to see how a stadium would work on that site, but I'll leave that to the architects. For transport East Acton & White City don't look too far away, OOC would be nearby and there would possibly be scope for a London Overground station to be built nearby. There would be additional pressure on the buses but I don't see transport being a huge issue.
If they're serious about playing the community angle then they have a school, college, hospital, prison, athletics club and numerous sports pitches on their doorstep at LCS. That would be a lot of scope for involvement in the community which along with Warren Farm would be putting down significant roots in the area.
Financially speaking, the development of the land that the club owns at OOC and Loftus Road would help but won't cover anywhere near all of the costs. The rest will need to be financed. The bond issue for Warren Farm is interesting, I don't know enough about it but if it's worked well elsewhere then why not. I don't expect our owners to just foot the bill for everything, they're wealthy but not necessarily cash rich and so things need to be financed as proven by the loan(s) we have previously taken. We have people on board who played a massive part in the development of Highbury & the Emirates so will be knowledgeable about financing a stadium. I think TF has said in the past that it won't be owned by the club but we will be the anchor tenant, not ideal but unfortunately to be expected, as long as it's done properly it shouldn't be a problem and may come under the clubs ownership in the future perhaps. There are a lot of unknowns at the moment but the way the club is going about this is promising.
With regards to the owners not spending money, I think we've seen enough evidence to conclude that the owners are not going to throw money around and want the club to be sustainable. Hoos mentions player sales may be needed in the future to keep the club on an even footing. Hopefully a new stadium would increase revenue and help us to become an established Premier League club which will take time but is the most likely way that the owners will recoup their losses to date, but the stadium has to pay for itself too.
If they are looking to raise capital through Bond issuance I think that is a real concern as it might be the mask slipping a little.
The board have stated in the past, I believe, that any new stadium wouldn't be owned by the club directly (all above board of course, just accounting prudence etc.). So I wonder, if they aren't prepared to fund a £15m training facility what is the intention with a new stadium? I would suggest either (1) it is never going to/was never going to happen (i.e all hot air and spin), or, more concerning (2) if it does happen it will be funded and owned by a 'friendly' third party. Loftus Road will be sold for re-development thereby covering the losses they've 'written off' so far (I'm guessing redevelopment value of prime West London land is significantly higher than the book value as a sports venue) and we will be left with a Coventry situation where we are having to rent our home ground? Fine, perhaps, in the short-term but what about a few years down the line when ownership etc. changes?
It could be that TF really is just a well meaning fool, prepared to write off £100s of millions of his own money on his own mistakes, or is he a ruthless businessman who will look to recoup his losses?
I doubt you become a multi-millionaire if you are a fool...otherwise I'd be minted.
It has to happen else QPR will be behind every football league club in London for Stadium facilitie within 5 years. LR is not fit for modern purpose anymore. Too small, too cramped and too many obstructed views, that's before you get into the money making corporate opportunities.
And I still cant imaging QPR playing anywhere but Loftus Road.
How many houses on Ellersie Road would £17 Million buy currently?
I reckon you could buy about 6 to 8 of those houses!!!!
Sometimes you can say hindsight is a wonderful thing but anyone with a brain cell could see Chris Wright and the GoT failed the club here. I could never understand why they never took the option of the land before Jack Tizzard School or the new flats. Plus you knew the London property market was always going to rise and owning as many houses down there was a no brainer --- even as an investment or for players etc!!!
Big missed opportunity back then
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
Personally I would apply for new development rights at Loftus Road. Buy out residents behind the Loft and redevelop that site. Then dig down, build up and create stadium, facilities and new houses. We will never need a ground that holds more than 25,000 people. Not in any of our lifetimes anyway.
Give it up Bosh... The only way you could dig down and create a bigger stadium would be to buy all of Loftus Road, all of Ellerslie (closest to the stadium) plus the School and that modern estate at the School Emd. You'd have to rebuild every stand and throw in all the facilities modern stadiums have. We all love HQ but it's a tiny footprint and totally boxed in.
If I owned the club I would ask the fans what you want to do and go with the majority.
1) move to a new stadium that makes us economically viable to be a Premier League club and as close to Loftus Road as possible whilst keeping what makes QPR - QPR, at the forefront of everything we do i.e. Community Trust, Family ties, unique identities of kit/acronym, a style of play and player plus other values)
2) stay at Loftus Road and become a League 2, at best League 1 club that yo-yo's between these divisions sometimes flirting with the Championship but also the Nationa League. That's where our paying fan base, size of stadia and academy status puts us.
Loftus Road isn't an option for growth or for a Premier League business model. The club is hemmed in by social and private housing, a busy cut through Road and a special school. The local opposition to the redevelopment of Hammersmith Park by Play Football make the opposition of Warren Farm look like wallflowers( albeit wallflowers with hefty legal and financial acumen) so I can't imagine what the process would be like for a massive redevelopment of LR.
Today it isn't just about match day income or even TV revenue but also non-match day revenue that defines you as a business and yes it is a business. Whilst it's not great for Arsenal to not make the Champuons League, the Emirates is such an asset they can afford to do it for at least a season without it impacting the bottom line too much.
I think if the owners/club put this to the fans then everyone will know where they are and if there is a disconnect in direction then all parties can make their decisions on the future.
Apologies if this comes across as ruthless pragmatic but I'm frustrated with how much energy is expended on philosophical and romantic debate, driven by a desire to see our club be successful over the medium and long term not a house of sand built on Football Manager fantasise of under qualified CEO or mercenary coaches, managers, agents and playing staff.
Forget for a minute how this would personally affect each and every QPR fan who attends matches at present, which model would actually be best for the club itself...
1) try and cope in an 18,000 cap stadium. 2) build a local 30,000 cap stadium at a cost of say £400mill, attempting to recoup the money plus interest over a 25 year period. or 3) build a 50,000 cap stadium at roughly the same cost of £400 mill but do it in Asia. Ticket sale income probably the same, but pay per view interest through the roof.
Would the EFL ever sanction relocation of a club beyond Wales remaining in its League, given the global audience it would attract? One day an average size club will find out, let's hope it's not us.
Only about a 10 minute walk from White City tube, Spurs building double the capacity and Seven Sisters is about 20 mins away.
Parking probably on a par with Spurs though, non existent.
Does anybody use Scrubs Park any more these days? Sunday football, I thought, was in decline and weekdays as far back as the late 60's it was only dog walkers.
Recall as kids we used to play football up there in the school holidays and thought the blokes watching us from behind trees were scouting for talent. Apparently they were, but from a totally different perspective.
WHL has Bruce Grove and WHL stations on its doorstep. It also has more bus routes than the scrubs. There's only 1 pub on its doorstep. And the council would bring in CPZs in the North Pole Rd area making it impossible to park ANYWHERE. I'm happy staying where we are. Why build a 30k ground when we havnt filled LR in the past 2 seasons. We've been having these conversations for the past 30 years. It's all hot air from everyone that's owned us.
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