| Few thoughts on last nights game.. 09:05 - Oct 21 with 9941 views | JordanFoster |
Don't normally post threads, but have seen Ramsey getting absolute dogs abuse from all angles on social media so thought I'd throw my two pence in for good measure.
Firstly the reaction to JET being brought off for Fer, I'm not sure what else could have been done? JET was tiring and had hardly set the world alight - he's never been an out and out striker anyway. Fer needed to come on being our most attacking option but you couldn't bring him on for one of the three attacking midfielders as they were looking fairly lively — the two wide players had come the closest to scoring and Luongo’s legs and energy gave Sheff Wednesday something else to think about as he can run in behind. To bring off Sandro or Tozser would have been suicidal bearing in mind Fer's performance and how we conceded the second against Birmingham. If he had come on for one of them and lost the ball or lost his runner and it ended up in Rangers conceding a goal and eventually losing it would have been a poisonous atmosphere.
Had he been left on the bench fans would have been in uproar at the end about how we didn’t gamble. On the face of it, I can see how it looks, but Fer has got the ability at this level to play up front. He’s got a great leap, wins a lot in the air and brings others into play — he’s levels above Polter in that role and it’s not even his proper position. In my opinion there’s been a complete overreaction.
At the other end of the scale, I can’t quite get my head around the clamour for Hill. He did what was asked of him, played Nuhiu at his own game fairly well but did far more wrong than he did right. He should have been sent off when he was caught in possession by Sougou, was caned for pace when caught square by Lucas João and spent most of the second half playing aimless long balls. If Henry had put in that type of performance he would have been lynched.
Just seems Ramsey is getting hammered for anything and everything - perhaps I'm wrong but that's the way I'm seeing it.
On a more positive note, a clean sheet at last whatever way it comes is brilliant bearing in mind the form at the minute. Also Jamie Mackie doing comms was a really great gesture by the club and he seemed to offer honest and intelligent comments. Think the game last night was crying out for Mackie, it needed a tackle or something to try and get the crowd going but unfortunately it just didn't come.
[Post edited 21 Oct 2015 9:21]
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:14 - Oct 21 with 6118 views | Mytch_QPR |
Don't disagree with that. If there's an opposite to rose tinted spectacles I think a lot of our supporters have been given a pair. |  |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:15 - Oct 21 with 6117 views | knocker |
Didn't hear Mackie as I was at game but someone on one of the message boards suggested that taking off jet for fer was a very strange! | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:16 - Oct 21 with 6105 views | JordanFoster |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:15 - Oct 21 by knocker |
Didn't hear Mackie as I was at game but someone on one of the message boards suggested that taking off jet for fer was a very strange! |
Sorry yeah, I was at the game, he was sitting behind me. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:17 - Oct 21 with 6098 views | knocker |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:15 - Oct 21 by knocker |
Didn't hear Mackie as I was at game but someone on one of the message boards suggested that taking off jet for fer was a very strange! |
should of said that's what Mackie said | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:21 - Oct 21 with 6077 views | bosh67 |
I am sure Chris Ramsey would say the same on JET but the telling thing is he dropped Polter from the bench and had no genuine striker to bring on. That in a home game is ludicrous.
JET may have been tiring, he certainly works hard and puts himself about. He has bags of ability, but he is also only 24 so you would want him to get second wind. He is capable, as we have seen, of turning a game.
For me bringing on Fer to play centre forward was for want of a better phrase, dumbass. He''s not a centre forward. Playing Luongo behind him in the 10 position was equally dumbass. Luongo played at Swindon as a deep line midfielder. He isn't a forward player.
Even if JET did need to come off you put Chery up front and Fer behind him. You take Tozser off and put Luongo further back. It's called playing players in their correct positions. Chery is a forward not a wide player. It's been amazing to watch our manager look incapable of playing players where they should be and it shows because we are disjointed and shapeless, and it never gets any better.
I thought Hill tightened up the back line but agree that if Henry had made that challenge or got caught for pace he would have got dogs abuse.
I have tried to support Ramsey and I have wanted him to do well but I see no evidence of a side that has any playing style or shape. If you drop a striker who has had all of 15 minutes first team action from the bench and bring on a midfielder to replace your only forward you deserve what you get. Only a hand full of people got on Ramsey's back and that was only at the substitution. I said to my dad as Fer warmed up, he'll bring off Green or Jet for Fer and he didn't let me down.
The problem right now isn't the players. Others have said some have under performed under different managers. Some have but you have to look at the quality of those managers. Hughes, went mad. Harry was past it. Chris is just not up to it.
Brian McDermott for me would be a good shout. He had a great record at Reading. Not a bad one at Leeds with a bonkers owner. Knows how to organise a defence, players love him and he attacks. Kind of what we need. |  |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:27 - Oct 21 with 6028 views | adhoc_qpr |
So he knew JET was struggling to play 90 minutes, but didn't put either Poulter or even Grego-Cox on the bench? | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:28 - Oct 21 with 6018 views | PunteR |
Ramsey is getting hammered for anything and everything imo . That's how i see it as well.
The one thing i would say is ,i dont think its a coincidence that Hill was on the pitch and we didn't concede a goal.. |  |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:29 - Oct 21 with 6017 views | JordanFoster |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:21 - Oct 21 by bosh67 |
I am sure Chris Ramsey would say the same on JET but the telling thing is he dropped Polter from the bench and had no genuine striker to bring on. That in a home game is ludicrous.
JET may have been tiring, he certainly works hard and puts himself about. He has bags of ability, but he is also only 24 so you would want him to get second wind. He is capable, as we have seen, of turning a game.
For me bringing on Fer to play centre forward was for want of a better phrase, dumbass. He''s not a centre forward. Playing Luongo behind him in the 10 position was equally dumbass. Luongo played at Swindon as a deep line midfielder. He isn't a forward player.
Even if JET did need to come off you put Chery up front and Fer behind him. You take Tozser off and put Luongo further back. It's called playing players in their correct positions. Chery is a forward not a wide player. It's been amazing to watch our manager look incapable of playing players where they should be and it shows because we are disjointed and shapeless, and it never gets any better.
I thought Hill tightened up the back line but agree that if Henry had made that challenge or got caught for pace he would have got dogs abuse.
I have tried to support Ramsey and I have wanted him to do well but I see no evidence of a side that has any playing style or shape. If you drop a striker who has had all of 15 minutes first team action from the bench and bring on a midfielder to replace your only forward you deserve what you get. Only a hand full of people got on Ramsey's back and that was only at the substitution. I said to my dad as Fer warmed up, he'll bring off Green or Jet for Fer and he didn't let me down.
The problem right now isn't the players. Others have said some have under performed under different managers. Some have but you have to look at the quality of those managers. Hughes, went mad. Harry was past it. Chris is just not up to it.
Brian McDermott for me would be a good shout. He had a great record at Reading. Not a bad one at Leeds with a bonkers owner. Knows how to organise a defence, players love him and he attacks. Kind of what we need. |
What's the point of having Polter on the bench if you have no interest in playing him? Putting him on the bench just because he's a striker would just be appeasing fans.
I wouldn't say it was dumbass, there was certainly logic behind it. Luongo - who I really rate - is still adjusting to a new league and is being protected well by Ramsey. But he'd get eaten in a two in the Championship, he has next to no positional awareness. I'm not sure how much you've seen of Chery before him arriving here but he played out wide in the Eredivisie but admittedly he's more of a No.10. He's not playing as a a typical 442 winger anyway.
I get what you're saying though I just dont think theres a manager that exists that some QPR fans want. | | | |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:30 - Oct 21 with 6013 views | JordanFoster |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:27 - Oct 21 by adhoc_qpr |
So he knew JET was struggling to play 90 minutes, but didn't put either Poulter or even Grego-Cox on the bench? |
No point with Polter, RGC injured. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:33 - Oct 21 with 5977 views | PunteR |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:29 - Oct 21 by JordanFoster |
What's the point of having Polter on the bench if you have no interest in playing him? Putting him on the bench just because he's a striker would just be appeasing fans.
I wouldn't say it was dumbass, there was certainly logic behind it. Luongo - who I really rate - is still adjusting to a new league and is being protected well by Ramsey. But he'd get eaten in a two in the Championship, he has next to no positional awareness. I'm not sure how much you've seen of Chery before him arriving here but he played out wide in the Eredivisie but admittedly he's more of a No.10. He's not playing as a a typical 442 winger anyway.
I get what you're saying though I just dont think theres a manager that exists that some QPR fans want. |
Warnock?  | |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:38 - Oct 21 with 5953 views | YorkRanger |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:29 - Oct 21 by JordanFoster |
What's the point of having Polter on the bench if you have no interest in playing him? Putting him on the bench just because he's a striker would just be appeasing fans.
I wouldn't say it was dumbass, there was certainly logic behind it. Luongo - who I really rate - is still adjusting to a new league and is being protected well by Ramsey. But he'd get eaten in a two in the Championship, he has next to no positional awareness. I'm not sure how much you've seen of Chery before him arriving here but he played out wide in the Eredivisie but admittedly he's more of a No.10. He's not playing as a a typical 442 winger anyway.
I get what you're saying though I just dont think theres a manager that exists that some QPR fans want. |
The question for me is why did we sign Polter.
He's barely played and has been written off. The club is berift of strikers so surely the one you do have you should put on the bench?
Slightly unfair on Hill I think Jordan. Thought he made some telling clearances and blocks and competed well with a very awkward striker |  | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:41 - Oct 21 with 5932 views | PunteR |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:14 - Oct 21 by Mytch_QPR |
Don't disagree with that. If there's an opposite to rose tinted spectacles I think a lot of our supporters have been given a pair. |
Thorn spiked eye patches? | |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. (n/t) on 09:45 - Oct 21 with 5904 views | JordanFoster |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:38 - Oct 21 by YorkRanger |
The question for me is why did we sign Polter.
He's barely played and has been written off. The club is berift of strikers so surely the one you do have you should put on the bench?
Slightly unfair on Hill I think Jordan. Thought he made some telling clearances and blocks and competed well with a very awkward striker |
[Post edited 21 Oct 2015 10:01]
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:46 - Oct 21 with 5894 views | baz_qpr |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:29 - Oct 21 by JordanFoster |
What's the point of having Polter on the bench if you have no interest in playing him? Putting him on the bench just because he's a striker would just be appeasing fans.
I wouldn't say it was dumbass, there was certainly logic behind it. Luongo - who I really rate - is still adjusting to a new league and is being protected well by Ramsey. But he'd get eaten in a two in the Championship, he has next to no positional awareness. I'm not sure how much you've seen of Chery before him arriving here but he played out wide in the Eredivisie but admittedly he's more of a No.10. He's not playing as a a typical 442 winger anyway.
I get what you're saying though I just dont think theres a manager that exists that some QPR fans want. |
That was Dave Mac's line too about Polter (you work for WLS dont you?)
I dont get that sorry, I think its an utterly bonkers statement and defending the indefensible. You have a number 9 who you've spent £1m on and are not prepared to even put on the bench knowing your only 9 is "carrying a knock". That would suggest something is seriously wrong somewhere.
I dont think JET was noticeably tiring .
I do think Fer should have come on for Luongo who whilst being busy was not really effecting the game in the final 3rd and was not close enough to JET
I think your assesment of Hill is completely wrong, yes he got done for pace, he's 37. Yes he should have been sent of having been dropped right in the shite by the utterly useless Toszer. However he made a massive difference in organizing and leading the back 4 and those in front of him. He was being forced to punt long because Toszer was not doing job as the deep lying playmaker and offering for the ball whilst they pressed |  | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:59 - Oct 21 with 5838 views | JordanFoster |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:46 - Oct 21 by baz_qpr |
That was Dave Mac's line too about Polter (you work for WLS dont you?)
I dont get that sorry, I think its an utterly bonkers statement and defending the indefensible. You have a number 9 who you've spent £1m on and are not prepared to even put on the bench knowing your only 9 is "carrying a knock". That would suggest something is seriously wrong somewhere.
I dont think JET was noticeably tiring .
I do think Fer should have come on for Luongo who whilst being busy was not really effecting the game in the final 3rd and was not close enough to JET
I think your assesment of Hill is completely wrong, yes he got done for pace, he's 37. Yes he should have been sent of having been dropped right in the shite by the utterly useless Toszer. However he made a massive difference in organizing and leading the back 4 and those in front of him. He was being forced to punt long because Toszer was not doing job as the deep lying playmaker and offering for the ball whilst they pressed |
I do, but I don't live with Dave, I couldn't tell you what he thinks. I think it's fairly obvious with Polter, he's hardly been trusted by CR as of yet, it's the general consensus of many.
I think your statement is slightly more bonkers, you crucifying a guy who watches Polter in training all day every day for not including him in the team. Just because he's a number 9 what does that mean? So if QPR had a striker that was Ryman level would you include him if there was no one else, just because he's a forward?
More than happy for you to think I'm completely wrong about Hill, but you hit the nail on the head with regards to the rose tinted specs. The utterly useless Tozser told him not to check his shoulders or play the way he is facing did he? And of course it was Tozser's fault again why Hill kept going long. Just gets very boring. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 10:16 - Oct 21 with 5739 views | baz_qpr |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:59 - Oct 21 by JordanFoster |
I do, but I don't live with Dave, I couldn't tell you what he thinks. I think it's fairly obvious with Polter, he's hardly been trusted by CR as of yet, it's the general consensus of many.
I think your statement is slightly more bonkers, you crucifying a guy who watches Polter in training all day every day for not including him in the team. Just because he's a number 9 what does that mean? So if QPR had a striker that was Ryman level would you include him if there was no one else, just because he's a forward?
More than happy for you to think I'm completely wrong about Hill, but you hit the nail on the head with regards to the rose tinted specs. The utterly useless Tozser told him not to check his shoulders or play the way he is facing did he? And of course it was Tozser's fault again why Hill kept going long. Just gets very boring. |
He's not Ryman level though is he, he was playing 2nd tier in Germany quite successfully and was scouted, no? Surely better to play someone as a centre forward who has played there all their career and can hold the ball up than ask a central midfielder to play there who has not and cannot hold the ball up. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 10:39 - Oct 21 with 5624 views | JordanFoster |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 10:16 - Oct 21 by baz_qpr |
He's not Ryman level though is he, he was playing 2nd tier in Germany quite successfully and was scouted, no? Surely better to play someone as a centre forward who has played there all their career and can hold the ball up than ask a central midfielder to play there who has not and cannot hold the ball up. |
I didn't say he was Ryman level, it was just using it as an example for someone being out of his depth.
Have you seen Polter hold the ball up then? Fer is very good with his back to goal and shielding the ball. Realistically, you have to go with the managers judgement as no fans have see as much as him on Polter. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:00 - Oct 21 with 5517 views | nadera78 |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 09:59 - Oct 21 by JordanFoster |
I do, but I don't live with Dave, I couldn't tell you what he thinks. I think it's fairly obvious with Polter, he's hardly been trusted by CR as of yet, it's the general consensus of many.
I think your statement is slightly more bonkers, you crucifying a guy who watches Polter in training all day every day for not including him in the team. Just because he's a number 9 what does that mean? So if QPR had a striker that was Ryman level would you include him if there was no one else, just because he's a forward?
More than happy for you to think I'm completely wrong about Hill, but you hit the nail on the head with regards to the rose tinted specs. The utterly useless Tozser told him not to check his shoulders or play the way he is facing did he? And of course it was Tozser's fault again why Hill kept going long. Just gets very boring. |
There were two reasons for the continual long balls from the back. Firstly, a complete and utter lack of movement from our forwards. Several times near the end there were 4 players (Phillips, Fer, Luongo, Chery) in a dead straight line, all being marked quite comfortably, and not one suggesting even a hint of moving. Secondly, the lack of a CM showing for a short pass on the turn or forming a triangle - the sort of thing Faurlin does in his sleep and completely changes the way we play.
Our CBs had little option but to go long or go back to Green.
Agree with you on Hill's general play. He won some headers against a difficult CF, but also made some almighty mistakes and should rightly have been sent off. That said, it's forgivable because he's 37, hasn't played for months and really shouldn't be anywhere near the team at this point. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:00 - Oct 21 with 5513 views | CHUBBS |
If players tiring towards the end of the game warrants a substitution then you'd need to replace most of the team.
Jet was tiring against Bolton so we're their players and managed to score.
Unless the player is out on his feet he should continue.
As much as I wanted CR to improve its just not happening,the pressure is starting to cloud his judgement whilst he comes across as a little naive to say the least. |  | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:14 - Oct 21 with 5438 views | southernR |
The combination of Hill on and Henry off was fundamental to us keeping a clean sheet, imo. There was a lengthy discussion after a Wed corner between Hill and Sandro when Hill was clearly telling Sandro exactly what to do for the next one followed by a thumbs up from Sandro - I just don't see that sort of 'organising' being done by anyone else in the back four. Maybe it needs the experience of a Hill to be able to do this and be accepted by the other players.
Hill had a tough night against a huge CF, OK he got away with a couple of chancy moments but overall he played an intelligent game, I thought the Hill/Hall combination worked most of the night.
JET always looks as though he is blowing out of his a*se so I cant see how us fans can tell if he needs to come off or not, Fer is quality at times and his fresh legs and shooting ability from outside of the box may have turned the game for us.
I came away delighted with a clean sheet (how times have changed), the players might start to believe in themselves a little more at the back and with the attacking players we have at our disposal we should be able to make opportunities for ourselves at this level. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:19 - Oct 21 with 5404 views | JordanFoster |
JET's also nursing a knock, to be without any form of striker would be dire. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:24 - Oct 21 with 5376 views | derbyhoop |
I have no idea what is going on between CR and Polter but, if JET wasn't fully fit it does seem bizarre to leave our only fit senior striker out of the 18 so you can include 5 midfielders on the bench.
From the commentary, it sounded like Hill brought a level of determination and organisation to the back 4. Predictably he got done for pace on a few occasions. When even ardent Rs fans are saying he deserved a red, he probably did.
I'll take the point and move on. Sandro getting 90 minutes is a real positive and we had enough efforts, but not enough on target, to have got all 3 on another day. |  |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:31 - Oct 21 with 5332 views | adhoc_qpr |
Considering we were still trying to flog Austin into the last days of the transfer window, saying Poulter (one of two specialist strikers we have) is now completely unselectable is madness...
JET isn't and hasn't been an out and out striker for years. I'm impressed with the job he's doing for the team though - he's probably kept Ramsey in the job for a few more weeks already.
Yes Poulter is a bit rubbish and likely not up to the Championship - but lots of club have to field players who aren't ideal. | | | |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:33 - Oct 21 with 5314 views | simmo |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 10:39 - Oct 21 by JordanFoster |
I didn't say he was Ryman level, it was just using it as an example for someone being out of his depth.
Have you seen Polter hold the ball up then? Fer is very good with his back to goal and shielding the ball. Realistically, you have to go with the managers judgement as no fans have see as much as him on Polter. |
Your argument/point loses a little credibility when the same manager brought on Polter with 5 mins to go when we were chasing a game and in desperate need for a goal. If he truly believes Polter isn't up to the job in comparison to alternatives, why did he take him to Birmigham and play him?
I agree RE Fer btw, think he's strong in the air and gave us a good target late in the game, but if Polter wasn't injured he absolutely should have been made available for selection. It's needs must when injuries hit and if he can't get a chance when 2/3 of the strikers ahead of him have knocks, then he should never have been bought in the first place. |  |
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| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:34 - Oct 21 with 5308 views | francisbowles |
| Few thoughts on last nights game.. on 11:00 - Oct 21 by CHUBBS |
If players tiring towards the end of the game warrants a substitution then you'd need to replace most of the team.
Jet was tiring against Bolton so we're their players and managed to score.
Unless the player is out on his feet he should continue.
As much as I wanted CR to improve its just not happening,the pressure is starting to cloud his judgement whilst he comes across as a little naive to say the least. |
Bolton was JET's first game and he had a two week recovery period after it. This time he had played 85 mins three days ago and has another game, where we need him to start, in four days. He is also carrying a slight knock.
As for Fer instead of Poulter: when we bought Poulter we thought Fer was leaving. Now we have Fer not getting into our midfield, as we badly needed Luongo's energy, and a much more talented and experienced option to bring on. Good in the air and has a great shot and goals at this and a higher level | | | |
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