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You've attacked Ramsay's character though. You called him a bare faced liar. I guess you judge someone's character by their actions?(rhetorical question) . So trying to dismiss everything Ferdinand and Ramsey are doing and questioning their motives or agendas is sort of an attack on their character. For example... judging by your posts(actions). I have the opinion you think you're a smart arse(character) . I don't know, you could be right afterall(i hope not) but W3 D3 L3 isnt the end of the world. You might have insider knowledge , i dont care . 4-3 the other day and i had a great Saturday night regardless of the rugby result.(i don't care about that either).
[Post edited 12 Oct 2015 22:54]
''I don't know, you could be right afterall(i hope not) but W3 D3 L3 isnt the end of the world.''
It's worse than that mate..Its WFOUR.! Even if we beat Brum who were some of the pitchfork mobs pick for promotion( as were Wolves) it still won't be good enough.Oh sure you might get a couple disgruntled 'Well done' posts with the addition that if we don't piss the playoffs at least this season it's a disaster.
Before any one asks, yes I am happy with consolidation and yes I will be happy if we survive this year mid table and continue the transformation back into something like a football club like QPR used to be.
''I don't know, you could be right afterall(i hope not) but W3 D3 L3 isnt the end of the world.''
It's worse than that mate..Its WFOUR.! Even if we beat Brum who were some of the pitchfork mobs pick for promotion( as were Wolves) it still won't be good enough.Oh sure you might get a couple disgruntled 'Well done' posts with the addition that if we don't piss the playoffs at least this season it's a disaster.
Before any one asks, yes I am happy with consolidation and yes I will be happy if we survive this year mid table and continue the transformation back into something like a football club like QPR used to be.
I don't really know what this "a football club like QPR used to be" means
It gets repeated again and again yet there is no definition more a romantic notion that's not really true.
I don't really know what this "a football club like QPR used to be" means
It gets repeated again and again yet there is no definition more a romantic notion that's not really true.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 0:17]
I'll make it short and easy because I haven't got the intellect or grammar for a brilliant and long post . Before the days of the 'Sugar Daddy' and before the days of the spoilt petulant fan who think it's our God given right to grace the'Best League In The World''
I'll make it short and easy because I haven't got the intellect or grammar for a brilliant and long post . Before the days of the 'Sugar Daddy' and before the days of the spoilt petulant fan who think it's our God given right to grace the'Best League In The World''
As I say, a romantic notion, wishing for things from the past, but it never was really like that.
As I say, a romantic notion, wishing for things from the past, but it never was really like that.
It certainly was never like the days of the ''instant fix , bottomless war chest'' of Hughes and Redknapp . Even you must admit the current management set up are trying to get away from that.
As I say, a romantic notion, wishing for things from the past, but it never was really like that.
There's a new generation of fans at QPR. We've had money. Lots of it. For nearly a decade now. Before that we was out of top flight for 15 years. Which past are you talking about 2T2B? Expectations of our club is all over the shop.Weve been to the premier league twice,Wembley.Talk of New stadium,new training ground. BLoody No1 Brazilian keeper,Rio ferdinand. Hughes ,Redknapp. Maybe Pommy is on about that bit we got promoted with Warnock. or maybe the couple of months with Magilton. or Sousa,Holloway.Francis. I dunno.,but to say it never really was like that,is the point. Its never been what?. Its trying to get away from delusions of grandeur. Take stock. Suss things out. Start again. Ramsey, for me is the start again bit. I think he's done ok so far.
There's a new generation of fans at QPR. We've had money. Lots of it. For nearly a decade now. Before that we was out of top flight for 15 years. Which past are you talking about 2T2B? Expectations of our club is all over the shop.Weve been to the premier league twice,Wembley.Talk of New stadium,new training ground. BLoody No1 Brazilian keeper,Rio ferdinand. Hughes ,Redknapp. Maybe Pommy is on about that bit we got promoted with Warnock. or maybe the couple of months with Magilton. or Sousa,Holloway.Francis. I dunno.,but to say it never really was like that,is the point. Its never been what?. Its trying to get away from delusions of grandeur. Take stock. Suss things out. Start again. Ramsey, for me is the start again bit. I think he's done ok so far.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 1:48]
Looking at his forum name it looks like he's supported Rangers about the same length of time as me. ( first game 3 all draw v Stoke 1973 ). I think he is just being>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There's a new generation of fans at QPR. We've had money. Lots of it. For nearly a decade now. Before that we was out of top flight for 15 years. Which past are you talking about 2T2B? Expectations of our club is all over the shop.Weve been to the premier league twice,Wembley.Talk of New stadium,new training ground. BLoody No1 Brazilian keeper,Rio ferdinand. Hughes ,Redknapp. Maybe Pommy is on about that bit we got promoted with Warnock. or maybe the couple of months with Magilton. or Sousa,Holloway.Francis. I dunno.,but to say it never really was like that,is the point. Its never been what?. Its trying to get away from delusions of grandeur. Take stock. Suss things out. Start again. Ramsey, for me is the start again bit. I think he's done ok so far.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 1:48]
That's my very point, the history is very chequered with little short lived highs and lots of lows with or without money.
Expectations of fans no matter what league or financial situation have and all ways will be to want better, we have failed on stability for the most part in what ever decade you want to point to.
The only time we have really had stability and made profits on players was under Jim Gregory and the fans hated him for selling some, Rodney, Parks, Thomas, Allan, Goddard, Ferdinand and maybe 10 or so others but not that many really.
I think that's what many want, a new Gregory era , but for that you need a a chairman who took the rains himself, sacking quickly the managers that were no good even sacking some that were good like Stock and Jago, to get someone better, but often the fans were not happy with a lot he done at the time.
We have lacked leadership ever since, as you say 15 years outside the top fight, a couple of seasons of relative success under Holloway and Warnock but havoc before and since and it continues and will continue when people in power at the club managing from afar, leaving things in the power of failing managers to long continues , we are doing it again with CR.
Ferdinand is only getting away with it ATM as he was/is a fans favourite, anyone else and we would be screaming for his head too.
We are being feed the vision of a club that has not existed in over 40 years and without a leader in way of a chairman who really knows what they are doing.
Fans are not unreasonable or stupid, they can see when things on the pitch are not working, they can recognise a poor manager, often a long time before those running the club but we don't have real leadership from the boardroom, they will argue that they are trying to change that but then hire the bloke who puts out the cones for the youth players.
That's my very point, the history is very chequered with little short lived highs and lots of lows with or without money.
Expectations of fans no matter what league or financial situation have and all ways will be to want better, we have failed on stability for the most part in what ever decade you want to point to.
The only time we have really had stability and made profits on players was under Jim Gregory and the fans hated him for selling some, Rodney, Parks, Thomas, Allan, Goddard, Ferdinand and maybe 10 or so others but not that many really.
I think that's what many want, a new Gregory era , but for that you need a a chairman who took the rains himself, sacking quickly the managers that were no good even sacking some that were good like Stock and Jago, to get someone better, but often the fans were not happy with a lot he done at the time.
We have lacked leadership ever since, as you say 15 years outside the top fight, a couple of seasons of relative success under Holloway and Warnock but havoc before and since and it continues and will continue when people in power at the club managing from afar, leaving things in the power of failing managers to long continues , we are doing it again with CR.
Ferdinand is only getting away with it ATM as he was/is a fans favourite, anyone else and we would be screaming for his head too.
We are being feed the vision of a club that has not existed in over 40 years and without a leader in way of a chairman who really knows what they are doing.
Fans are not unreasonable or stupid, they can see when things on the pitch are not working, they can recognise a poor manager, often a long time before those running the club but we don't have real leadership from the boardroom, they will argue that they are trying to change that but then hire the bloke who puts out the cones for the youth players.
Seriously ? WTF.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 8:45]
You are right .I'm an old romantic.I should be a pragmatic realist like yourself and scream for the sacking of a coach/manager and Director of Football who have a record of W4D3L3 and sits a few points off the play off positions
I love this new W4 D3 L3 narrative. (as if that wasn't awful with the resources they have) You can almost pretend that they were hired in August!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/championship/table First season in charge and all that. I hated Redknapp and begged for us not to appoint him. But even I gave him the benefit of the doubt and discarded his efforts with Hughse's ''deadwood'' Give the man a break FFS
You are right .I'm an old romantic.I should be a pragmatic realist like yourself and scream for the sacking of a coach/manager and Director of Football who have a record of W4D3L3 and sits a few points off the play off positions
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/championship/table First season in charge and all that. I hated Redknapp and begged for us not to appoint him. But even I gave him the benefit of the doubt and discarded his efforts with Hughse's ''deadwood'' Give the man a break FFS
I didn't. I saw pretty instantly that the man was a crook and knew we needed to get rid. But the exact same arguments are being used for Ramsey. Wasn't his team, lots of player turnover, wait and see, don't judge, financial restrictions. All smokescreens to disguise the issues we were actually bringing up. None of these have ensured that our substitutions are exclusively terrible, none of these have ensured that two loanees have walked unfit into the team to displace players playing well and keep out better players, none of these ensured a piss poor preseason, none of these ensure that his ingame management is poor, none of these ensured a scattergun approach to transfers (again,) none of these ensured the players being played out of position, none of these ensured that somehow we still have no discernible style of play being implemented.
Until someone can tell me how his newness is causing these things then I'm not going to be change my mind because he smiles.
I didn't. I saw pretty instantly that the man was a crook and knew we needed to get rid. But the exact same arguments are being used for Ramsey. Wasn't his team, lots of player turnover, wait and see, don't judge, financial restrictions. All smokescreens to disguise the issues we were actually bringing up. None of these have ensured that our substitutions are exclusively terrible, none of these have ensured that two loanees have walked unfit into the team to displace players playing well and keep out better players, none of these ensured a piss poor preseason, none of these ensure that his ingame management is poor, none of these ensured a scattergun approach to transfers (again,) none of these ensured the players being played out of position, none of these ensured that somehow we still have no discernible style of play being implemented.
Until someone can tell me how his newness is causing these things then I'm not going to be change my mind because he smiles.
''financial restrictions.'
What financial restrictions did H have???/
''I didn't. I saw pretty instantly that the man was a crook and knew we needed to get rid. But the exact same arguments are being used for Ramsey.''
Nice effort into making me seem to be one of the clueless ones who didn't know what Redknapp was all about. Go onto QPR Report and see how early I ''called Redknapp out' It was before I regularly used this forum and way before we appointed him. Or alternatively ask Jon Doman .He can vouch how much I hate the crook
DEFINITION/EXPLANATION - trying to get back to what QPR were
A club with a small run down ground that can only hold 18,000 and has no room for expansion. There's better facilities in L1 An ability to punch way beyond our weight A club that develops young players recruited from the local area A club where a good number of the players start out as or become QPR supporters A club that brings in promising young players and is prepared to sell them for a profit A club that will be mid-table in the Championship more often than not. Even reaching the PL is punching above our weight
All of the above to be achieved while we get away from overpaid, past it mercenaries who see the club as a last chance to top up the pension; while we still have to rent an inadequate training ground; where the youngsters train in a different facility; where we compete with many other clubs with better facilities and bigger clout.
And we criticise Ramsey for a record of 4-3-3. Unbelievable and unrealistic
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
DEFINITION/EXPLANATION - trying to get back to what QPR were
A club with a small run down ground that can only hold 18,000 and has no room for expansion. There's better facilities in L1 An ability to punch way beyond our weight A club that develops young players recruited from the local area A club where a good number of the players start out as or become QPR supporters A club that brings in promising young players and is prepared to sell them for a profit A club that will be mid-table in the Championship more often than not. Even reaching the PL is punching above our weight
All of the above to be achieved while we get away from overpaid, past it mercenaries who see the club as a last chance to top up the pension; while we still have to rent an inadequate training ground; where the youngsters train in a different facility; where we compete with many other clubs with better facilities and bigger clout.
And we criticise Ramsey for a record of 4-3-3. Unbelievable and unrealistic
''I didn't. I saw pretty instantly that the man was a crook and knew we needed to get rid. But the exact same arguments are being used for Ramsey.''
Nice effort into making me seem to be one of the clueless ones who didn't know what Redknapp was all about. Go onto QPR Report and see how early I ''called Redknapp out' It was before I regularly used this forum and way before we appointed him. Or alternatively ask Jon Doman .He can vouch how much I hate the crook
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 9:51]
I didn't make it seem like anything. You didn't like Redknapp but you are using the arguments which were used for him for Ramsey without actually defending the criticisms of Ramsey. It is no different telling me to give Ramsey time when I bring up retarded substitutions or any of the ridiculous amount of stupid individual decisions than it was telling us to give Redknapp time when we brought up strange signings like Chevanton and Oyewei (sp?)
I heard a million billion times from the army of happy clappers that when we were in the championship we were under financial restrictions. It was obvious we were not. It is obvious that we are spending a ton now. It's the same now, for all the talk of 'letting 14 players go' none were wanted. They were retirees. Most we would have sought to sell if possible. So even though he was able to retain every player he wanted he was also able to go out and buy half a squad. Our bench would start for most teams.
I didn't make it seem like anything. You didn't like Redknapp but you are using the arguments which were used for him for Ramsey without actually defending the criticisms of Ramsey. It is no different telling me to give Ramsey time when I bring up retarded substitutions or any of the ridiculous amount of stupid individual decisions than it was telling us to give Redknapp time when we brought up strange signings like Chevanton and Oyewei (sp?)
I heard a million billion times from the army of happy clappers that when we were in the championship we were under financial restrictions. It was obvious we were not. It is obvious that we are spending a ton now. It's the same now, for all the talk of 'letting 14 players go' none were wanted. They were retirees. Most we would have sought to sell if possible. So even though he was able to retain every player he wanted he was also able to go out and buy half a squad. Our bench would start for most teams.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 12:14]
I meant even tho I knew Redknapp was not the man for us I accept that any manager deserves a full season with his own squad. Redknapp was afforded the luxury of a January splurge as well. I just think CR should be given at least a bit of time to prove himself . A whole season infact.***. Tell you what I really hope we sneak a win against Brum.Not just for the obvious reasons . It would give us at least a couple of days free of this happy clapper bullshit.. Like the Bolton match thread. The first few pages were a flurry of ( sometimes gleeful) anti Ramsey crap. Then we pulled back and actually won..A few disgruntled 'Well Done' posts followed . I could actually hear teeth grinding. Then blissful silence for a few days..
**** edit **** Unless of course we are in deep shizen and look like being relegated at say the end of November . I dont think we will be tho and I dont think you think we will be either. Hence the constantly shifting goalposts for poor old Chris..Dead certs fr promotion now or at least a Wembley play off day again Eh ??
I meant even tho I knew Redknapp was not the man for us I accept that any manager deserves a full season with his own squad. Redknapp was afforded the luxury of a January splurge as well. I just think CR should be given at least a bit of time to prove himself . A whole season infact.***. Tell you what I really hope we sneak a win against Brum.Not just for the obvious reasons . It would give us at least a couple of days free of this happy clapper bullshit.. Like the Bolton match thread. The first few pages were a flurry of ( sometimes gleeful) anti Ramsey crap. Then we pulled back and actually won..A few disgruntled 'Well Done' posts followed . I could actually hear teeth grinding. Then blissful silence for a few days..
**** edit **** Unless of course we are in deep shizen and look like being relegated at say the end of November . I dont think we will be tho and I dont think you think we will be either. Hence the constantly shifting goalposts for poor old Chris..Dead certs fr promotion now or at least a Wembley play off day again Eh ??
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 12:38]
but "its not about the results"
Or more precisely its not about the results if you mention we've won 4, but IS about the results of last season apparently.
Lose 3-0 to Birmingham but make some "wonderful" subs and THEN lets see if its "not about the results"!!!!!!!
I meant even tho I knew Redknapp was not the man for us I accept that any manager deserves a full season with his own squad. Redknapp was afforded the luxury of a January splurge as well. I just think CR should be given at least a bit of time to prove himself . A whole season infact.***. Tell you what I really hope we sneak a win against Brum.Not just for the obvious reasons . It would give us at least a couple of days free of this happy clapper bullshit.. Like the Bolton match thread. The first few pages were a flurry of ( sometimes gleeful) anti Ramsey crap. Then we pulled back and actually won..A few disgruntled 'Well Done' posts followed . I could actually hear teeth grinding. Then blissful silence for a few days..
**** edit **** Unless of course we are in deep shizen and look like being relegated at say the end of November . I dont think we will be tho and I dont think you think we will be either. Hence the constantly shifting goalposts for poor old Chris..Dead certs fr promotion now or at least a Wembley play off day again Eh ??
[Post edited 13 Oct 2015 12:38]
It's a fair comment and usually I'm in agreement that time needs to be given to implement new ideas, to allow new players to bed in etc etc. I'm just really tired of seeing our best players sat on the bench. It's even annoying the more level headed people that sit around me.
I'm certainly not gleeful. I came home from that last game very angry. It sounds bizarre I know and a lot of it was a build up of disappointments but as my flatmate said 'If I hadn't sat through 360 minutes of Karl Henry with you this year, I'd have thought you were crazy, having done so I'm amazed at your calm'
Nah we won't be relegated. I'm still hopeful about performing to some of our potential and being in the top 6. Big changes need to happen and if that means keeping Ramsey then he must change. He needs to actually listen to his advisors and reevaluate his beliefs eg. that Henry is among our top 5 CM's.
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