| Johnson v Corbyn 21:06 - Nov 19 with 13274 views | bosh67 |
Anyone else watch this car crash on ITV? |  |
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:17 - Nov 20 with 1410 views | Northernr |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:01 - Nov 20 by QPR_Nippon |
You’ve called both of them despicable but only given an example for Johnson.
There’s plenty of evidence that Johnson is a lying, self-serving charlatan. What makes Corbyn equally worthy of criticism? Seriously, I’d love to know because with Corbyn I’ve heard nothing that amounts to anything more than ‘well he just is’ or ‘well, they’re all the same aren’t they?’ |
Asked three times last night which way he would campaign on Europe he did exactly the same "look over there, I'm just going to talk about what I want to talk about and ignore the question" bolox. She even drilled it down to a yes or no and he just went off on another tangent about something else.
Some great political strategist somewhere has come up with the idea that if you don't like the question simply go "What I think is important is..." and then talk about what you want to talk about. Jez, have you got the time? "Time is neither here nor there, what I think is important is this Tory party's plans to sell off the NHS." Jez, which way is the train station? "The train station will be whereever it will be, what I think is important is the Tory party's plans to sell off the NHS."
Utterly grim spectacle, treating the public as idiots. Although sadly, as it clearly works which is why they do it, that's probably exactly what we are.
* although on your "both as bad as each other" point, they're not. Johnson couldn't lie straight in bed. Still trotting out his blatant untruths about 40 new hospitals.
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:39 - Nov 20 with 1357 views | francisbowles |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:07 - Nov 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Speaking for myself, being a Eurosceptic doesn’t mean you voted leave. |
So your level of euroscepticism must be fairly low on the scale, if three years ago after Cameron had been sent to improve the UK deal and comeback with virtually nothing, you were content to vote to stay in a club that you were unhappy with. |  | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:40 - Nov 20 with 1351 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I lasted 10 mins then switched off.
I don't like either of them but I'd take either over Swinson any day of the week. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:42 - Nov 20 with 1344 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:07 - Nov 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Speaking for myself, being a Eurosceptic doesn’t mean you voted leave. |
Similarly, being a Europhile doesn’t mean you voted remain. |  |
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:43 - Nov 20 with 1339 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:39 - Nov 20 by francisbowles |
So your level of euroscepticism must be fairly low on the scale, if three years ago after Cameron had been sent to improve the UK deal and comeback with virtually nothing, you were content to vote to stay in a club that you were unhappy with. |
Pretty much.
I dislike a lot of aspects about the EU, but voted to remain for the potential that it could have. |  | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:45 - Nov 20 with 1328 views | francisbowles |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:42 - Nov 20 by CliveWilsonSaid |
Similarly, being a Europhile doesn’t mean you voted remain. |
Why? | | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:47 - Nov 20 with 1317 views | francisbowles |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:43 - Nov 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Pretty much.
I dislike a lot of aspects about the EU, but voted to remain for the potential that it could have. |
Yes, I get that but change is needed for that potential to happen and that doesn't seem to be achievable. | | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:58 - Nov 20 with 1287 views | QPR_Jim |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 08:15 - Nov 20 by CroydonCaptJack |
That is a very good point. So why is it so difficult for him to say exactly that? |
People don't like complex answers though, so if he was to say if A happens then we'll do C but if B happens we'll do D people would tune out and think he's avoided the question despite the fact that as with most things in life it's complex and his position may be effected by things that happen in the future. People like simple answers even if the question is complex. |  | | |
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:59 - Nov 20 with 1285 views | Phildo |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:16 - Nov 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Without telling me who, I’d be really interested to know if anyone changed their voting intention after that debate last night? Or if anyone was undecided and has now decided? |
Yes I was going to vote for one of them (fairly reluctantly) but watched that sh#tshow and decided I could not vote for either of them. Neither Terry Thomas or supply geography teacher types do it for me unfortunately. |  | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:02 - Nov 20 with 1275 views | stowmarketrange |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:58 - Nov 20 by QPR_Jim |
People don't like complex answers though, so if he was to say if A happens then we'll do C but if B happens we'll do D people would tune out and think he's avoided the question despite the fact that as with most things in life it's complex and his position may be effected by things that happen in the future. People like simple answers even if the question is complex. |
Most people would settle for what HE thinks rather than a wait and see attitude. |  | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:07 - Nov 20 with 1265 views | Phildo |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:02 - Nov 20 by stowmarketrange |
Most people would settle for what HE thinks rather than a wait and see attitude. |
The best answer he could have given would have been ' I am a lifelong eurosceptic but I am a democrat first and therefore will accept my party and ultimately the peoples decision' | | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:09 - Nov 20 with 1257 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:47 - Nov 20 by francisbowles |
Yes, I get that but change is needed for that potential to happen and that doesn't seem to be achievable. |
To be fair, a proper socialist government from one of the big economies like ours has never had a good crack at it. But yeah I fear you may be right. | | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:17 - Nov 20 with 1238 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 09:41 - Nov 20 by CaptainPugwash |
If you'm got to wait until a tv debate to make up yer mind youse probably shoudnt be votin'. |
As my vote won't count where I live unlike the referendum, I did not bother and won't be voting. |  |
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:27 - Nov 20 with 1204 views | stowmarketrange |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:07 - Nov 20 by Phildo |
The best answer he could have given would have been ' I am a lifelong eurosceptic but I am a democrat first and therefore will accept my party and ultimately the peoples decision' |
He didn’t though and neither did his party because they didn’t listen to what the majority of the people said in 2016. [Post edited 20 Nov 2019 11:49]
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:28 - Nov 20 with 1203 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
Imagine QPR were a democracy run by a bunch of crooks and cronies... If I were given a vote where I could choose whether those crooks should remain in power, or leave. I could vote for them to leave but that wouldn’t make me any less of a QPR fan. The opposite in fact.
Of course this doesn’t make my decision right as the original set of crooks may be replaced by an even worse set of crooks and cronies! [Post edited 20 Nov 2019 11:29]
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:29 - Nov 20 with 1195 views | BuckR |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:17 - Nov 20 by Northernr |
Asked three times last night which way he would campaign on Europe he did exactly the same "look over there, I'm just going to talk about what I want to talk about and ignore the question" bolox. She even drilled it down to a yes or no and he just went off on another tangent about something else.
Some great political strategist somewhere has come up with the idea that if you don't like the question simply go "What I think is important is..." and then talk about what you want to talk about. Jez, have you got the time? "Time is neither here nor there, what I think is important is this Tory party's plans to sell off the NHS." Jez, which way is the train station? "The train station will be whereever it will be, what I think is important is the Tory party's plans to sell off the NHS."
Utterly grim spectacle, treating the public as idiots. Although sadly, as it clearly works which is why they do it, that's probably exactly what we are.
* although on your "both as bad as each other" point, they're not. Johnson couldn't lie straight in bed. Still trotting out his blatant untruths about 40 new hospitals.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Blimey! I avoided the debate like the plague and sounds like I was right to when Clive starts posting in the political threads! | | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 12:12 - Nov 20 with 1124 views | QPR_Nippon |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:17 - Nov 20 by Northernr |
Asked three times last night which way he would campaign on Europe he did exactly the same "look over there, I'm just going to talk about what I want to talk about and ignore the question" bolox. She even drilled it down to a yes or no and he just went off on another tangent about something else.
Some great political strategist somewhere has come up with the idea that if you don't like the question simply go "What I think is important is..." and then talk about what you want to talk about. Jez, have you got the time? "Time is neither here nor there, what I think is important is this Tory party's plans to sell off the NHS." Jez, which way is the train station? "The train station will be whereever it will be, what I think is important is the Tory party's plans to sell off the NHS."
Utterly grim spectacle, treating the public as idiots. Although sadly, as it clearly works which is why they do it, that's probably exactly what we are.
* although on your "both as bad as each other" point, they're not. Johnson couldn't lie straight in bed. Still trotting out his blatant untruths about 40 new hospitals.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Thanks for the clarification mate. This ‘they’re both as bad as each other’ thing from people whose opinions I usually really value does my head in.
I definitely get the frustration with Corbyn not answering that question. Just say I’ll decide that based on the deal that’s negotiated and if I feel that remaining is a better option I’ll campaign for that. Can’t be any worse than being so clearly and obviously evasive ffs.
Apart from that I thought Corbyn did OK. Avoided being drawn into ad hominem attacks on Johnson, which must have been tempting and may have actually been politically advantageous. |  | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 12:39 - Nov 20 with 1087 views | CroydonCaptJack |
For what it is worth I watched it and there didn't seem any obvious winner.
It was very clear BJ wanted to hammer home the Brexit theme as that is why the Tories are currently ahead in the polls. He probably over-laboured that point in the end as it became very noticeable. [Post edited 20 Nov 2019 13:42]
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 13:12 - Nov 20 with 1048 views | Gloucs_R |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:16 - Nov 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Without telling me who, I’d be really interested to know if anyone changed their voting intention after that debate last night? Or if anyone was undecided and has now decided? |
I did. I watched the last 20 mins and shook my head in disbelief....
A clown or a puppet
Even though I voted for Brexit, I will most probably vote Liberal.
Had the SDP been in my region, I would vote for them.
3 people came out well last night - Swinson, Sturgeon and Farage. |  |
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 13:27 - Nov 20 with 1015 views | FDC |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 10:58 - Nov 20 by QPR_Jim |
People don't like complex answers though, so if he was to say if A happens then we'll do C but if B happens we'll do D people would tune out and think he's avoided the question despite the fact that as with most things in life it's complex and his position may be effected by things that happen in the future. People like simple answers even if the question is complex. |
Partly agree with this. It's definitely true that the 'gotcha' journalistic culture and the insistence on yes or no answers to complex questions is pretty toxic. But I did think Corbyn should have done better on this last night. Hard to believe they weren't preparing for what was quite obviously going to Johnson's main attack.
I think Labour's position is the correct one, and they should promote it better in the face of hostile demands for simple answers. Basically, Corbyn will be PM which ever way the referendum decides to resolve Brexit, and he wants to govern the whole country not just 48 or 52% of it (and really BJ is performing for far less that 52%, like the most Brexit-y of the leave voters).
But yeah just dodging the question and looking evasive was the wrong move and hard to understand really. |  | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 13:29 - Nov 20 with 1011 views | QPR_Jim |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 00:57 - Nov 20 by Benny_the_Ball |
Moreover, how can we trust Corbyn to negotiate a good deal for Britain if privately he (and the party) are for Remain?
If he manages to negotiate a new deal, which camp will he campaign for during a second referendum? If he backs Remain then he'll look stupid as he'll be campaigning against his own deal. If he backs his deal but the public vote to Remain then he should step down.
And that's before you even consider the merits of a second referendum given that Parliament failed to honour the first.
Personally I think JC and the Labour Party are backing themselves into a corner on this issue. |
I think you're looking at it from the wrong point of view, he doesn't have to choose a side in this debate. As others said he's eurosceptic anyway so I'm sure he'd happily take us out himself if people were happy with the deal they're getting. By staying neutral on Brexit he's actually more able to deliver on what people want. David Cameron's problem was that he was remain but the vote come back leave and if part of the Labour policy is to have a vote on a new deal, which it is, then it's for the best that he's neutral so he doesn't feel he needs to resign if the vote doesn't go the way of his backing which would just delay things further.
What would Corbyn gain from negotiating a bad deal? He'd look stupid and end up being so unpopular that he'd not be leader for long. He'd also run the risk of having to enact it and be in control of leaving with a worse deal than we've currently got. It makes no sense.
You seem to have a deep lack of trust with Corbyn which is understandable given the press he gets, and if that is the case then you absolutely shouldn't vote for him. | | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 13:30 - Nov 20 with 1001 views | ridethewave |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 11:09 - Nov 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
To be fair, a proper socialist government from one of the big economies like ours has never had a good crack at it. But yeah I fear you may be right. |
The entire reason that the big economies are big is because they have never had socialism. |  | | |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 13:33 - Nov 20 with 990 views | QPR_Jim |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 08:15 - Nov 20 by CroydonCaptJack |
That is a very good point. So why is it so difficult for him to say exactly that? |
Nm [Post edited 20 Nov 2019 13:38]
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 13:41 - Nov 20 with 947 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Johnson v Corbyn on 13:30 - Nov 20 by ridethewave |
The entire reason that the big economies are big is because they have never had socialism. |
What is the NHS based on? And our Education system? Or toll free roads?
I’m sorry to break it to you, but those things amongst thousands of others is Socialism. [Post edited 20 Nov 2019 13:45]
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| Johnson v Corbyn on 14:11 - Nov 20 with 1414 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
National Insurance and general taxation. Amazon pay less tax as a percentage than you do (for example) so no, private business does not pay for the NHS. [Post edited 20 Nov 2019 14:17]
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