| German plane crashed deliberately 11:50 - Mar 26 with 11310 views | QPR1882 |
Pointing towards deliberate crash by the co pilot, This tragedy is getting worse and worse. [Post edited 26 Mar 2015 12:36]
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 21:32 - Mar 26 with 2241 views | johncharles |
Still can't see how someone would choose this spectacular way of suicide without having a big moment rant. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 21:40 - Mar 26 with 2227 views | QPR1882 |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 21:30 - Mar 26 by HollowayRanger |
still not that safe if theres two of you and one loses it and decides he's going crash plane first thing he will do is kill the 2nd person
the 2nd person wont even know what hit them till its too late
sadly there is no perfect solution ,certainly an armed guard controlling the door is a major no no for me
only option id be happy with is 3 -4 man crew all stay in cabin for flight beds and toilet built in ,im sure it would need a major change in plane design but long term its the best solution |
There is only a pilot and co pilot on most short haul flights, engineers have been done away with by computers. | | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 21:46 - Mar 26 with 2216 views | bosh67 |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587
sadly this wouldn't be the first time a pilot has committed suicide and taken everyone else with them. Truly tragic for everyone on board and their families. RIP |  |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 21:57 - Mar 26 with 2203 views | Match82 |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 21:32 - Mar 26 by johncharles |
Still can't see how someone would choose this spectacular way of suicide without having a big moment rant. |
I'm sure he wasn't in his right mind and something pushed him over the edge. But of all the ways to go, you're on a plane. Jumping out of the door would seem like a more interesting option to take than a long, slow descent with everyone else on board.
Plus, it might have given the other pilot a chance to stabalize the plane. |  | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 07:52 - Mar 27 with 2069 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I hate flying, I'd have noticed we were descending rapidly (it's the landing bit I hate) those poor souls.
If he did murder them and there is such a thing as hell, I hope he rots in it. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:13 - Mar 27 with 2050 views | Sudbury_Hill_R |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 20:37 - Mar 26 by Recoilboss |
Even if you look at in just pure economic terms, would it not be efficient to employ a fully vetted, trained & armed security person as (specifically) part of the pilot crew, who has full control over the doorway controls and in turn over any/all pilots and their activities - someone whose only job is to oversee absolute protocol and can spot any errant behaviour, weirdness and so on? I’m not saying they could actually fly the plane as such.
The cost of aircraft loss, the recovery processes, dealing with multiple passenger deaths, families, insurance pay outs, support and knock on confidence in the airline must surely make it worthwhile to invest in more measures?
After this particular incident, the opportunity for just a single pilot to lock himself in the cockpit will no doubt be removed but there is still the chance of a ‘pair with a plan’, which is why I actually think the bigger the team, the lesser the chances of this kind of incident. Of course a pair could still bring a plane down even with an overseer I guess.
What an utter utter cnt the bloke was for taking so many with him. |
The majority of long haul flights from the US have a minimum of 2, normally 3, fully armed Air Marshals sitting amongst the public in all areas.
They are trained on cockpit entry and watch for movements in and out. Realistically though, they are there for any nutter that may fancy his chances. |  | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:29 - Mar 27 with 2035 views | Recoilboss |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:13 - Mar 27 by Sudbury_Hill_R |
The majority of long haul flights from the US have a minimum of 2, normally 3, fully armed Air Marshals sitting amongst the public in all areas.
They are trained on cockpit entry and watch for movements in and out. Realistically though, they are there for any nutter that may fancy his chances. |
Yes I was aware of that Sudbury, and generally it seems the Americans are ahead of the Europeans in this aspect - not surprisingly after 9/11. (Do you know if some/all Euro flights also have armed security amongst passengers?)
I was suggesting a security person specifically in terms of the pilot’s activities, someone who has overriding power to control access & protocol as well as a permanent direct communication line to the ground. In general, the bigger the flying/security team, the safer I’d have thought.
Complicated issue. I was alarmed at Lufthansa arrogance yesterday in some of their ill-judged knee jerk comments where they suggested there was no requirement for change and that they'd done all they needed. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 8:30]
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:41 - Mar 27 with 2017 views | TheBlob |
Perhaps it's time to introduce the uninterruptible automatic systems that have been developed but resisted by the airlines.
I've never been up in a passenger plane - deep seated fear of flying - so can't make a judgement.Would you be happy with a robotic system flying the plane rather than a potential nutter? |  |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:47 - Mar 27 with 2007 views | Sudbury_Hill_R |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:29 - Mar 27 by Recoilboss |
Yes I was aware of that Sudbury, and generally it seems the Americans are ahead of the Europeans in this aspect - not surprisingly after 9/11. (Do you know if some/all Euro flights also have armed security amongst passengers?)
I was suggesting a security person specifically in terms of the pilot’s activities, someone who has overriding power to control access & protocol as well as a permanent direct communication line to the ground. In general, the bigger the flying/security team, the safer I’d have thought.
Complicated issue. I was alarmed at Lufthansa arrogance yesterday in some of their ill-judged knee jerk comments where they suggested there was no requirement for change and that they'd done all they needed. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 8:30]
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Not aware of them in Europe, only the US. Even though they are armed to the teeth I wouldn't fancy being up there if a shoot out takes place. | | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:58 - Mar 27 with 1992 views | Recoilboss |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:41 - Mar 27 by TheBlob |
Perhaps it's time to introduce the uninterruptible automatic systems that have been developed but resisted by the airlines.
I've never been up in a passenger plane - deep seated fear of flying - so can't make a judgement.Would you be happy with a robotic system flying the plane rather than a potential nutter? |
I think the fear is that might be open to cyber attack, although I did see an idea mooted (and currently do-able) where a destination override could be instigated from the ground, locking the plane into landing at the nearest safe airport as one of a limited range of options. Seems like an idea…
Either way, automated control for public travel will inevitably be the future, taking potential erratic human behaviour out of the equations, don’t you think? | | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 09:07 - Mar 27 with 1981 views | TheBlob |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 08:58 - Mar 27 by Recoilboss |
I think the fear is that might be open to cyber attack, although I did see an idea mooted (and currently do-able) where a destination override could be instigated from the ground, locking the plane into landing at the nearest safe airport as one of a limited range of options. Seems like an idea…
Either way, automated control for public travel will inevitably be the future, taking potential erratic human behaviour out of the equations, don’t you think? |
There are automated trains everywhere now and cars in the very near future.Flying a plane seems to be less complicated than a car journey,you only need a human element to combat unusual conditions - computers can't always improvise.
Having said that,the truly dedicated nutter will always find a way. | |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 09:46 - Mar 27 with 1944 views | derbyhoop |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 21:02 - Mar 26 by QPR1882 |
The answer is the way the Americans do it, one out,one in.
If a pilot or co-pilot go for a comfort break the chief steward comes in and sits in his seat until he returns, that way there is always 2 people in the cockpit. |
That looks like the one benefit that will come out of this tragedy. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:07 - Mar 27 with 1929 views | gameday |
Wonder what went through the co-pilot's mind when he chose to take 150 people with him? Seemed like a pretty normal guy, although he was dealing with depressions
Hope such a tragic incident doesn't repeat anytime soon |  |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaLvr6mW9bA |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:10 - Mar 27 with 1926 views | Orthodox_Hoop |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 07:52 - Mar 27 by Metallica_Hoop |
I hate flying, I'd have noticed we were descending rapidly (it's the landing bit I hate) those poor souls.
If he did murder them and there is such a thing as hell, I hope he rots in it. |
Hell is too good for this grade A cnt. Hope he is being regularly visited by those 5 Bulgarian weightlifters in the afterlife. |  | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:25 - Mar 27 with 1891 views | pomanjou |
Its by no means yet certain that the co pilot did the dirty. He could have been incapacitated (temporary seizure), the auto pilot could have switched itself off (technical failure), their could have been a freeze up in the cabling (flying high in very lowish -50 temps). All these thing have happened before.
There was no fire on impact, why? Underfuelled?
Lets wait until both black boxes (red) are fully analysed.
Too much speculation which may or may not prove true.
The answer to rentry to the cockpit is surely fingertip touch pad technology. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 10:27]
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:32 - Mar 27 with 1768 views | Recoilboss |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:25 - Mar 27 by pomanjou |
Its by no means yet certain that the co pilot did the dirty. He could have been incapacitated (temporary seizure), the auto pilot could have switched itself off (technical failure), their could have been a freeze up in the cabling (flying high in very lowish -50 temps). All these thing have happened before.
There was no fire on impact, why? Underfuelled?
Lets wait until both black boxes (red) are fully analysed.
Too much speculation which may or may not prove true.
The answer to rentry to the cockpit is surely fingertip touch pad technology. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 10:27]
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Why (and how) does an incapacitated person take action to lock a door? - a procedure which can't be done by accident apparently as it requires a simultaneous lift & switch movement.
If the guy was innocently out cold or dead, the door entry system would have worked, via the keypad.
The descent instructions could not have been inputted by accident, according to experts. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 10:36]
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:33 - Mar 27 with 1760 views | francisbowles |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:25 - Mar 27 by pomanjou |
Its by no means yet certain that the co pilot did the dirty. He could have been incapacitated (temporary seizure), the auto pilot could have switched itself off (technical failure), their could have been a freeze up in the cabling (flying high in very lowish -50 temps). All these thing have happened before.
There was no fire on impact, why? Underfuelled?
Lets wait until both black boxes (red) are fully analysed.
Too much speculation which may or may not prove true.
The answer to rentry to the cockpit is surely fingertip touch pad technology. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 10:27]
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The co pilot denied the Captain re entry to the flight deck! He pressed a switch to override the emergency code! |  | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:49 - Mar 27 with 1731 views | pomanjou |
Speculation. Source? | |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 11:19 - Mar 27 with 1686 views | Bushman |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:25 - Mar 27 by pomanjou |
Its by no means yet certain that the co pilot did the dirty. He could have been incapacitated (temporary seizure), the auto pilot could have switched itself off (technical failure), their could have been a freeze up in the cabling (flying high in very lowish -50 temps). All these thing have happened before.
There was no fire on impact, why? Underfuelled?
Lets wait until both black boxes (red) are fully analysed.
Too much speculation which may or may not prove true.
The answer to rentry to the cockpit is surely fingertip touch pad technology. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 10:27]
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Agree |  |
| I know almost nothing about the Premier League even though I try to catch the big games every now and then at the end of the season. But I will say this, Queens Park Rangers is just a fukking sick ass team name. Just sounds so cool. |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 11:35 - Mar 27 with 1664 views | Jamie |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 10:25 - Mar 27 by pomanjou |
Its by no means yet certain that the co pilot did the dirty. He could have been incapacitated (temporary seizure), the auto pilot could have switched itself off (technical failure), their could have been a freeze up in the cabling (flying high in very lowish -50 temps). All these thing have happened before.
There was no fire on impact, why? Underfuelled?
Lets wait until both black boxes (red) are fully analysed.
Too much speculation which may or may not prove true.
The answer to rentry to the cockpit is surely fingertip touch pad technology. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 10:27]
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The flight level was adjusted by hand to descend to a flight level of 100ft, over a mountainous area. That can only be done by an alert, conscious pilot.
As already stated by the French prosecutor, the co-pilots breathing didn't change in anyway and he didn't emit any noises, consciously or unconsciously so completely inconsistent with any form of medical issue.
If there was a mechanical issue, why did the co-pilot refuse re-entry to his vastly more experienced captain, flick the door into Lock mode and deny the emergency override use.
As to fire, there clearly was one. Footage showed the smouldering remains some hours after the crash. At 4000ft though, the air is far thinner, and thus the fire would've quickly been self extinguished due to reduced oxygen.
The French Prosecutors & Lufthansa wouldn't have agreed to the findings if they had any doubt whatsoever.
Ads for fingertip access, it is clearly NOT the answer as it could be easily manipulated by anyone on board with nefarious intentions and could still be overriden from the flight deck.
You cannot 100% defend against a suicidal pilot. But as this is only the 7th case in 51 years, it's really not an issue to worry about. Regular psychological screenings and an enforcement of 2 people in the cockpit at all times is the only necessary changes. [Post edited 27 Mar 2015 11:39]
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 11:54 - Mar 27 with 1638 views | pomanjou |
I prefer to wait for the professional investigators to come up with their report before accusing someone of killing 150 people in cold blood.
Why are we rushing to potentially put a 20 year old trolleydolly in the cockpit or maybe even a sleeper muslim bomber in disguise? Or will only middle class gay qualified airline stewards be allowed in the cockpit? | |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 12:04 - Mar 27 with 1623 views | Mytch_QPR |
Latest reports suggest he had severe mental issues which he did not declare to his employer - possibly a paranoid schizophrenia sufferer, but all speculation at this stage. If he was 'hearing voices' then it may go some way to explain what appears to have happened. |  |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 12:18 - Mar 27 with 1600 views | TacticalR |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 11:54 - Mar 27 by pomanjou |
I prefer to wait for the professional investigators to come up with their report before accusing someone of killing 150 people in cold blood.
Why are we rushing to potentially put a 20 year old trolleydolly in the cockpit or maybe even a sleeper muslim bomber in disguise? Or will only middle class gay qualified airline stewards be allowed in the cockpit? |
Anyone who likes movies about gladiators should be allowed in the cockpit. |  |
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| German plane crashed deliberately on 12:37 - Mar 27 with 1567 views | onlyrinmoray |
I feel so sorry for the guys parents Not only have they lost their son they now find out he was responsible for all the deaths Plus they have the media all over their house
How do you recover from that ? |  | | |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 12:49 - Mar 27 with 1551 views | Jamie |
| German plane crashed deliberately on 11:54 - Mar 27 by pomanjou |
I prefer to wait for the professional investigators to come up with their report before accusing someone of killing 150 people in cold blood.
Why are we rushing to potentially put a 20 year old trolleydolly in the cockpit or maybe even a sleeper muslim bomber in disguise? Or will only middle class gay qualified airline stewards be allowed in the cockpit? |
The head prosecutor got the report that he published yesterday from investigators who had accessed the CVR. They wouldn't have gone so graphically public if they weren't very comfortable doing so.
Why would you not want a quote:"20 year old trolleydolly" sat in the cockpit for a minute whilst one of the pilots goes for a slash. It's an additional barrier to any suicidal pilot, who would need to be subdued and could also allow access to the pilot outside the flight deck. | | | |
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