| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? 11:01 - Dec 11 with 3168 views | RangersDave |
Reported on Sky news that "Southern Cross Austereo, the parent company of radio station 2Day FM, said the remainder of the profits for 2012 should go to a memorial fund to benefit Jacintha Saldhana's family.
The sum is expected to amount to AUS$500,000 (£326,000)."
smells of an admission that it crossed the line, and hoping to stave off a lawsuit from the family and hospital.
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 13:29 - Dec 11 with 782 views | Northernr |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 13:21 - Dec 11 by Hunterhoop |
I'm with Northern on this.
You can only judge the DJs' actions by what they did, not what happened after the event for which they couldn't control.
There was a good comment piece in the Standard last night, which hit the nail on the head.
When the news story broke of the DJs impersonating the Queen and getting through to the nurse (before the poor girl committed suicide) what did people think??
Some may have sniggered, some may have found it amusing, some may have felt it a breach of security, some may have felt it stupid, some may have felt it a typical boring DJ game, etc, etc.
But all we can do, if we're fair, is judge their actions at that point. The following day, I didn't speak to or read anyone, anyway, laying into these DJs, hanging them out to dry, labelling them as awful, etc, etc. It was a side story to 'old Kate getting severe morning sickness (a story blown up by the media in the first place!).
The fact that a couple of days later the nurse in question committed suicide is terribly, terribly sad. It's a tragedy.
But there is no way in the world a radio station, the DJs, or anyone could have foreseen that or considered it might be the outcome. This type of DJ joke has bee done on every radio station for years. Sometimes they get through, sometimes they don't.
As has been mooted, this reeks of terrible man-management from the hospital. They would have quickly been made aware of the DJ thing. They could have easily foreseen how embarrassed and ashamed the nurse might be. They should have appreciated it wasn't really her fault and that any half decent practices would have ensured the DJs had never got through to her.
All of which should have led them to be extremely forgiving and caring to the nurse, support her publically and privately and try to 'nurse' her through this period.
Now, if they did that and she still committed suicide then we can only presume her mind was in such a fragile state that any number of actions, such as the DJ stunt, making her feel those feelings, could have led her to feel the need to take her own life.
However, I'd wager that the hospital did not manager her like that. I'd wager they were sh&t scrared of a rebuke from the Palace, gave her a dressing down, possibly publically, and massively worsened the situation when it came to her own state of mind.
On top of all this, with people suffering depression, it's rarely one single thing that causes them to feel that way, and, in some cases, commit suicide. It's a state of mind that you can very gradually fall into. That could be caused by minor events and issues over months and years. We have no idea whether she was suffering that.
To blame these Aussie DJs feels to me, a) wrong, b) misplaced and c) unnecessary. A tragedy has happened which was highly unlikely to be foreseen by anyone. There doesn't always need to be someone or something to blame. And, if you feel there should be a hunt for accountability, I'd suggest beginning with how the hospital managed her after the stunt and then how they managed her over the last couple of years. |
Great post. |  | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 13:33 - Dec 11 with 778 views | baz_qpr |
I take the view that most of the blame hear lies with the hospital. Nurse should not be answering the phone no matter what time of day. If she had issues with depression then employer had duty of care, if not , why was it not discovered and if this was mearly a shame cultural thing then the only person at fault is the woman herself. Suicide is the most selfish of acts, it suggest a mental health problem and there is a lot of people who have to live with the consequences for the rest of their lives |  | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 13:52 - Dec 11 with 763 views | BrianMcCarthy |
RangersW12,
Because she clearly suffered massive torment before (apparently) committing suicide. Now her life is over and all for nothing. If she did commit suicide it was hardly for a lark, was it? [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 14:40 - Dec 11 with 737 views | RangersDave |
Blaming the Aussie DJ's is wrong? really?
not a chance i'm afraid.
They not only glorified in the publicity this stunt gave, they kept mentioning hw clever they were on their radio station programme in subsequent days, and the radio station produced trailers for the show with 45 second clips from the 'prank' in them. (please check this is FACT).
Heck it was also on their website up to and BEYOND the death of the nurse.
If they'd have let it alone after the initial 'prank' and let the nurse in on it Beadle style, she might (and i say might) just have been with us today. Certainly this japery has not prolonged her life has it? nut it 'might' well have contributed to her untimely deah. | |
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 15:01 - Dec 11 with 720 views | Hunterhoop |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 14:40 - Dec 11 by RangersDave |
Blaming the Aussie DJ's is wrong? really?
not a chance i'm afraid.
They not only glorified in the publicity this stunt gave, they kept mentioning hw clever they were on their radio station programme in subsequent days, and the radio station produced trailers for the show with 45 second clips from the 'prank' in them. (please check this is FACT).
Heck it was also on their website up to and BEYOND the death of the nurse.
If they'd have let it alone after the initial 'prank' and let the nurse in on it Beadle style, she might (and i say might) just have been with us today. Certainly this japery has not prolonged her life has it? nut it 'might' well have contributed to her untimely deah. |
Why engage in reasoned discussion when you can just grab a torch and pitchfork and go marching to the town hall?
Read my post again. Discuss some of the points I raise. Put across a proper reasoned argument for why a particular point is wrong, unreasonable, etc. Perhaps even consider there may have been other key influencing factors to her death or, god forbid, a completely different cause dictating this 'effect'.
Or just stick to a very simple, ill thought through: "this is the effect, that must be the cause - case closed" line. |  | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 15:07 - Dec 11 with 713 views | RangersDave |
'ifs' and 'buts' my friend and i think you'll see i udes (copied and pasted to clarity) the words "and i say might" not did!
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 15:53 - Dec 11 with 700 views | A40Bosh |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 13:52 - Dec 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
RangersW12,
Because she clearly suffered massive torment before (apparently) committing suicide. Now her life is over and all for nothing. If she did commit suicide it was hardly for a lark, was it? [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Exactly Brian,
I have a feeling that we have had threads discussing depression on here before and some posters even owned up to being visited by the "black dog" themselves. There is being depressed that we have not won in 16 games and then there is the horrors of actual clinic depression. There are some people who are quick to say that suicide is the cowards way out, but someone who is in the depths of this chemical imbalance does often not have the ability to make rational decisions. |  |
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 16:17 - Dec 11 with 686 views | vodkasupper |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 15:53 - Dec 11 by A40Bosh |
Exactly Brian,
I have a feeling that we have had threads discussing depression on here before and some posters even owned up to being visited by the "black dog" themselves. There is being depressed that we have not won in 16 games and then there is the horrors of actual clinic depression. There are some people who are quick to say that suicide is the cowards way out, but someone who is in the depths of this chemical imbalance does often not have the ability to make rational decisions. |
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 16:26 - Dec 11 with 680 views | vodkasupper |
"You can only judge the DJs' actions by what they did, not what happened after the event for which they couldn't control."
From this surely you should judge them by what they did not do as well as what they done?
Did they call the nurse or the hospital back to confess to the prank or just let it air? | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 16:59 - Dec 11 with 667 views | HantsR |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 13:21 - Dec 11 by Hunterhoop |
I'm with Northern on this.
You can only judge the DJs' actions by what they did, not what happened after the event for which they couldn't control.
There was a good comment piece in the Standard last night, which hit the nail on the head.
When the news story broke of the DJs impersonating the Queen and getting through to the nurse (before the poor girl committed suicide) what did people think??
Some may have sniggered, some may have found it amusing, some may have felt it a breach of security, some may have felt it stupid, some may have felt it a typical boring DJ game, etc, etc.
But all we can do, if we're fair, is judge their actions at that point. The following day, I didn't speak to or read anyone, anyway, laying into these DJs, hanging them out to dry, labelling them as awful, etc, etc. It was a side story to 'old Kate getting severe morning sickness (a story blown up by the media in the first place!).
The fact that a couple of days later the nurse in question committed suicide is terribly, terribly sad. It's a tragedy.
But there is no way in the world a radio station, the DJs, or anyone could have foreseen that or considered it might be the outcome. This type of DJ joke has bee done on every radio station for years. Sometimes they get through, sometimes they don't.
As has been mooted, this reeks of terrible man-management from the hospital. They would have quickly been made aware of the DJ thing. They could have easily foreseen how embarrassed and ashamed the nurse might be. They should have appreciated it wasn't really her fault and that any half decent practices would have ensured the DJs had never got through to her.
All of which should have led them to be extremely forgiving and caring to the nurse, support her publically and privately and try to 'nurse' her through this period.
Now, if they did that and she still committed suicide then we can only presume her mind was in such a fragile state that any number of actions, such as the DJ stunt, making her feel those feelings, could have led her to feel the need to take her own life.
However, I'd wager that the hospital did not manager her like that. I'd wager they were sh&t scrared of a rebuke from the Palace, gave her a dressing down, possibly publically, and massively worsened the situation when it came to her own state of mind.
On top of all this, with people suffering depression, it's rarely one single thing that causes them to feel that way, and, in some cases, commit suicide. It's a state of mind that you can very gradually fall into. That could be caused by minor events and issues over months and years. We have no idea whether she was suffering that.
To blame these Aussie DJs feels to me, a) wrong, b) misplaced and c) unnecessary. A tragedy has happened which was highly unlikely to be foreseen by anyone. There doesn't always need to be someone or something to blame. And, if you feel there should be a hunt for accountability, I'd suggest beginning with how the hospital managed her after the stunt and then how they managed her over the last couple of years. |
Too many open and unanswered questions for me to form a fully balanced and reasoned opinion at the moment about this very sad incident. Indeed, considering all angles is quite a moral maze. Such incidents are rarely one single cause and are usually a combination of circumstances.
However, you asked the question, "what did people think?"when the initial story broke. Well, I can tell you, my first reaction was that regardless of whether the call should have been put through, ringing a hospital pretending to be a relative of a patient who is potentially very ill was iniquitous and inexcusable. From first hand experience, I know what sort of dilemma that can place upon nursing staff who are usually busy enough with an over-loaded schedule to deal with stupidity like this. |  | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:12 - Dec 11 with 661 views | Hunterhoop |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 16:26 - Dec 11 by vodkasupper |
"You can only judge the DJs' actions by what they did, not what happened after the event for which they couldn't control."
From this surely you should judge them by what they did not do as well as what they done?
Did they call the nurse or the hospital back to confess to the prank or just let it air? |
Still don't think that's relevant.
You're missing my point or deliberately distorting it. I suppose that's better than RangersDave simply ignoring it and spouting off along a completely different stream, but nevertheless...
At that moment in time where we all knew of the stunt before the nurse committed suicide was anyone hanging them out to dry? Was there a public outcry? Were they being hounded and vilified?
No. They weren't. I explained the variety of reactions there were in my orginal post.
They couldn't possibly have imagined there actions would drive someone to suicide (and we still have no evidence to suggest it was purely their actions that did that). A well balanced staff member or someone with good, caring management would not have reacted in that way because it is not a proportionate reaction to the stunt that was pulled.
No one at that point in time I'm focussing on was suggesting that the DJs' actions might drive the nurse to suicide, were they?!
No. See my point about Hospital management. Either she was clinically depressed already, they'd tried everything in their gift to help her and there was nothing they could do to stop her reacting in this way...in which case it's an unbelievably sad turn of events. OR they managed her terribly in the aftermath, e.g. were insensitive and unfair to her, gave her a public dressing down, blamed her, etc, etc...and this contributed to her actions.
What I think is key is that managed properly or of stable mind, she wouldn't have committed suicide. Therefore, when you really analyse CAUSE AND EFFECT, you cannot make a case to say that the cause of her death was the DJs. It was her state of mind (ie. condition of depression) or the way she was made to feel after the event. | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:16 - Dec 11 with 656 views | TGRRRSSS |
My view is the hospital are not letting on about their role in all this, I'm rpetty sure both nurses would have been told to expect disciplinary action further down the line when the fuss had died down, now they are in crisis managment mode.
Likewise the Managment at 2DayFM who've left the 2 DJs largely on their own, ok they are having counselling (or so we're told) but thats about it.
Lawyers apparently OKd this to go to air, where is their culpability, the Producers, the station manager and so Chief EXec Ryhs Holleran, and so on. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:27 - Dec 11 with 652 views | Hunterhoop |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 16:59 - Dec 11 by HantsR |
Too many open and unanswered questions for me to form a fully balanced and reasoned opinion at the moment about this very sad incident. Indeed, considering all angles is quite a moral maze. Such incidents are rarely one single cause and are usually a combination of circumstances.
However, you asked the question, "what did people think?"when the initial story broke. Well, I can tell you, my first reaction was that regardless of whether the call should have been put through, ringing a hospital pretending to be a relative of a patient who is potentially very ill was iniquitous and inexcusable. From first hand experience, I know what sort of dilemma that can place upon nursing staff who are usually busy enough with an over-loaded schedule to deal with stupidity like this. |
Absolutely, so you thought it was inexusable. Perfectly reasonable judgement. Not debating that.
But did you think it was going to cause the nurse to commit suicide? No, of course not. I cannot accept that this is a reasonable conclusion to draw from the stunt itself. And no one drew it at the time. It's too easy to be wise after the event and in doing so completely misunderstand cause and effect.
On a tangent, I also debate that she was seriously ill. She was ill. She did not have cancer, a brain tumour or in a life threatening condition and the questions they asked garnered nothing more than was in the public eye already (as was commented by all news outlets reporting the event at the time). They, the DJs, did not divulge any personal information a concerned family would not want in the public eye.
So I appreciate your sentiment and reasoning, because it's completely justified. I just don't think it quite applies to this situation.
Going back to your initial point, a moral maze certainly...a variety of circumstances contributing to an action, yes. But to stop there is, frankly, lazy analysis.
Apply the same stunt to 100 different nurses across 100 different hospitals. Do they all commit suicide. No.
As soon as you accept that, you accept the driving causes are not the stunt....but how they react and are made to feel by others after the event.
Now, imagine you have 100 different nurses across 100 different hospitals each of whom suffers clinical depression. Imagine they all suffer an embarrassing event. Do they all commit suicide? Probably not, but some will. It may depend on how they're cared for and managed by the hospital management.
Now, imagine you have 100 different nurses across 100 different hospitals each of whom suffers clinical depression. Imagine they all suffer an embarrassing event and are berated by hospital management, made to feel embarrassed, not supported, etc, etc. Do they all commit suicide? Possibly not. But I bet you the number is higher than the last two scenarios.
Point is the DJs weren't to know that she suffered depression nor how well (or badly) the hospital management (and staff I suppose) would treat her after the event. And it's a unreasonable to assume they, and everyone else in this world, should act and behave as if they think every strange they encounter might be suffering depression.
Given this, you can't put a logica case across to say they are at fault for her death.
They will feel an enormous amount of regret and sadness that they're stunt was one of the circumstances contributing to a woman taking her own life. They must feel awful. But they weren't the single cause or the main cause. I'm yet to find anyone argument to explain why they were and I think it's wrong to suggest they were.
Finally, and most importantly, the whole focussing on the DJs takes the spotlight off the key issue of depression. It's a more difficult thing for the media and the public to discuss and open up about so probably not a surprise. But, as we had on here a few months back, we are capable of having some fantastic, positive, enlightening discussions about a serious condition that affects so many people. People blaming the DJs are glossing over this. | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:30 - Dec 11 with 647 views | Hunterhoop |
Sorry everyone...just realised I've gone a bit Ingham on this thread! | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:30 - Dec 11 with 647 views | TGRRRSSS |
Also worth remembering the nurse who killed herself only put the call through and presumably barely spoke to the DJs (well she didn't anyway really as it was pre recorded) | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:32 - Dec 11 with 607 views | gobbles |
It wasn't the prank that led to this, it was the ridiculous media circus that followed in Britain. All the pieces saying the hospital let the royals down, heads should role, the constant replaying of the tape on British TV. Not to mention she is likely to have gone to work and been told "you're in trouble".
It was a pathetic little stunt, but if you want to blame someone, how about all the newspaper columnists or talking head on 24-hour TV news and shows like the Wright Stuff who like to pass judgment on everything. If this had been ignored by the media, instead of blown up by every media outlet in the country into a scandal, I somehow doubt this would have happened.
Instead it's easier for the British media, who had called the phone call a scandal and scapegoated the hospital staff, rather than look at itself, let's scapegoat the DJs. |  | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:57 - Dec 11 with 595 views | Northernr |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:32 - Dec 11 by gobbles |
It wasn't the prank that led to this, it was the ridiculous media circus that followed in Britain. All the pieces saying the hospital let the royals down, heads should role, the constant replaying of the tape on British TV. Not to mention she is likely to have gone to work and been told "you're in trouble".
It was a pathetic little stunt, but if you want to blame someone, how about all the newspaper columnists or talking head on 24-hour TV news and shows like the Wright Stuff who like to pass judgment on everything. If this had been ignored by the media, instead of blown up by every media outlet in the country into a scandal, I somehow doubt this would have happened.
Instead it's easier for the British media, who had called the phone call a scandal and scapegoated the hospital staff, rather than look at itself, let's scapegoat the DJs. |
That 24 Hour News channel isn't going to fill itself. | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 18:00 - Dec 11 with 593 views | klr |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:57 - Dec 11 by Northernr |
That 24 Hour News channel isn't going to fill itself. |
Truly horrible sight to see Keith Vaz draping himself over that poor women's family yesterday, sickening individual. | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 18:05 - Dec 11 with 590 views | HantsR |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:30 - Dec 11 by Hunterhoop |
Sorry everyone...just realised I've gone a bit Ingham on this thread! |
Didn't say and don't believe the DJs were wholly responsible for the suicide; just said what my initial reaction was to the prank. Didn't want to go down your Ingham route on the whole case, but didn't have time or enough facts to do so...anyway, didn't deserve the accusation of "lazy analysis", it was just a preamble to indicate I couldn't wholly blame any one particular party at this stage. I also said that the patient was 'potentially' ill - no-one really knew at the time and there was a little concern. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 18:09 - Dec 11 with 585 views | klr |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 12:25 - Dec 11 by Northernr |
I think that's way over the top. Radio programmes have played these silly little games for years. I think Mr Sheen on here the other days said it better than I can, about people who commit suicide blowing up what's actually a small or manageable problem in their mind into one that's all consuming and unmanageable. You can't hold two people who had a bit of a laugh - nothing sinister about it - accountable in that situation.
One question I'd like to ask is, rather than focusing on the DJs, has anybody asked how the hospital management treated this woman after the incident? Was she publicly rebuked, humiliated, yelled at by management keen to protect their reputation as the hospital for royals?
Sometimes though, and you'd never guess it in the modern media age, sometimes it's actually nobody's fault. |
Spot on, this is where the real story ( If there is one ) lies for me.
Its not beyond the realms of possibility that there would be some really really nasty horrible C*nts working within the hierachy of a private hospital that is so exclusive The Royal Family are clients.
Its easier in this day & age to blame those 2 unfunny Australian radio jocks, like others have said, that stuff has been going on for decades | | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 19:39 - Dec 11 with 565 views | Kiwi76 |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 17:32 - Dec 11 by gobbles |
It wasn't the prank that led to this, it was the ridiculous media circus that followed in Britain. All the pieces saying the hospital let the royals down, heads should role, the constant replaying of the tape on British TV. Not to mention she is likely to have gone to work and been told "you're in trouble".
It was a pathetic little stunt, but if you want to blame someone, how about all the newspaper columnists or talking head on 24-hour TV news and shows like the Wright Stuff who like to pass judgment on everything. If this had been ignored by the media, instead of blown up by every media outlet in the country into a scandal, I somehow doubt this would have happened.
Instead it's easier for the British media, who had called the phone call a scandal and scapegoated the hospital staff, rather than look at itself, let's scapegoat the DJs. |
Agree with that Gobbles.
Amazed with all recent media spotlight from Levison that no-one is questioning their role... |  | | |
| Aussie Radio admitting guilt? on 20:00 - Dec 11 with 552 views | TheBlob |
Nobody's to blame for anything anymore.Can't believe some people on here.A woman is dead and people are squabbling over cause and effect??
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