| Sue Gray steps down 13:32 - Oct 6 with 4057 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
Oh Dear Kier not finding establishing the Number 10 operation easy. |  |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 21:10 - Oct 7 with 1225 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sue Gray steps down on 20:43 - Oct 7 by raynor94 |
Labour have made a big mistake with the wfa, a rushed in policy which needed more thought.
It was announced at the same time as Kier and the front bench had their snouts firmly in the trough.
But the backtracking over the freebies has been embarrassing, and now the Sue Gray fiasco, it certainly hasn't been an auspicious start. |
It does look poor but I don’t think it’s completely relative.
The freebies (some of) are not good but at least they have back tracked and tightened up the rules. The tories didn’t in 14 years.
And during that time the written press didn’t touch it. They’re all over it with Labour and it’s that instability that has to a large degree got shot of Sue Gray.
And again, at least she’s gone. Not like Cummings in the rose garden clinging on like a barnacle.
Those same press are still pushing that Boris got shafted by party gate but in really his own colleagues were fed up of defending the indefensible. |  | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 21:50 - Oct 7 with 1184 views | Flashberryjack |
| Sue Gray steps down on 21:10 - Oct 7 by Gwyn737 |
It does look poor but I don’t think it’s completely relative.
The freebies (some of) are not good but at least they have back tracked and tightened up the rules. The tories didn’t in 14 years.
And during that time the written press didn’t touch it. They’re all over it with Labour and it’s that instability that has to a large degree got shot of Sue Gray.
And again, at least she’s gone. Not like Cummings in the rose garden clinging on like a barnacle.
Those same press are still pushing that Boris got shafted by party gate but in really his own colleagues were fed up of defending the indefensible. |
Come on Gwyn, the press and other media outlets absolutely slaughtered the conservatives over freebies and sleaze (and quite rightly so).
They also slaughtered Cummins and his shady shenanigans, as far as Labour back tracking and tightening up the rules, it's like getting caught with your fingers in the till, then saying "I'll put the money back and I won't do it again guv"
Sue Gray is a highly paid snake in the grass, and just been moved to another paid position as long as she keeps her mouth shut.
Starmer and his bunch of clowns are just as bad as the conservatives, the only difference is, Labour are much bigger Hypocrites. |  |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 22:16 - Oct 7 with 1158 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sue Gray steps down on 21:50 - Oct 7 by Flashberryjack |
Come on Gwyn, the press and other media outlets absolutely slaughtered the conservatives over freebies and sleaze (and quite rightly so).
They also slaughtered Cummins and his shady shenanigans, as far as Labour back tracking and tightening up the rules, it's like getting caught with your fingers in the till, then saying "I'll put the money back and I won't do it again guv"
Sue Gray is a highly paid snake in the grass, and just been moved to another paid position as long as she keeps her mouth shut.
Starmer and his bunch of clowns are just as bad as the conservatives, the only difference is, Labour are much bigger Hypocrites. |
Sleeze and taxpayer grifts (like Boris’ wallpaper), yes.
I don’t remember them going for the freebies with such vigour.
It’s been bad, but not as bad.
There’s been less straight illegality. | | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 22:29 - Oct 7 with 1151 views | majorraglan |
| Sue Gray steps down on 21:50 - Oct 7 by Flashberryjack |
Come on Gwyn, the press and other media outlets absolutely slaughtered the conservatives over freebies and sleaze (and quite rightly so).
They also slaughtered Cummins and his shady shenanigans, as far as Labour back tracking and tightening up the rules, it's like getting caught with your fingers in the till, then saying "I'll put the money back and I won't do it again guv"
Sue Gray is a highly paid snake in the grass, and just been moved to another paid position as long as she keeps her mouth shut.
Starmer and his bunch of clowns are just as bad as the conservatives, the only difference is, Labour are much bigger Hypocrites. |
Labour are being pulled up on freebies ( and quite rightly so) but since 2015 there’s been a distinctly uneven play field. We know what Starmer et al have received, but we don’t know what Government ministers have received over the past 9 years after Cameron changed the rules for ministers declarations.
Back in 2015 by the Cameron government removed or reduced the scrutiny around ministers gifts and hospitality. The changes “relaxed” what minsters were required to report but others including shadow ministers and back benchers were still required to declare their “donations” or “gifts” in full every fortnight. The 2015 changes could result in a situation where a minister and a shadow minister attended the same event, the minister wouldn’t have to make any declarations while the shadow minister would! That situation has gone on for 9 years and it can’t be right.
The registers relating to MP’s is updated and published monthly, however the ministers record is updated intermittently and was last published in December 2023 some 10 months ago. It also appears that ministers themselves had the leeway to determine what, if anything was relevant and what they should report. That begs the question how on earth did this arrangement come about ……do as I say don’t do as I do!!!!!! Cameron removed any meaningful scrutiny around MP’s gifts, donations or freebies.
The ministerial code says it is “a well established and recognised rule that no minister should accept gifts, hospitality or services from anyone which would, or might appear to, place him or her under an obligation”, it adds that this “is primarily a matter which must be left to the good sense of ministers”.
Under the new rules Starmer is introducing all will be now be treated the same way and have the same reporting requirements. That has to be a positive.
Starmer had around £100k over 5 years Boris had a huge secret donation for his flat with the gold wall paper, it’s been claimed he received between £175k and £200k which only came to light after a leak - Boris didn’t declare it whereas Starmer has published most of his. I’m not condoning Starmer because he shouldn’t have taken it - he was wrong plain and simple but let’s put things in perspectiive he’s not the only one and he’s now tightening up the rules. I’d love to see what Sunak et al have declared for December to July, but we may never know. | | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 23:25 - Oct 7 with 1144 views | AnotherJohn |
The thing that is worrying me at the moment is the rumour that Rachel Reeves will change the fiscal rules to a "borrow to invest" approach, which depending on who is doing the calculation could give extra "head room" for borrowing of up to £50 billion p.a. As the national debt is already at 100% of GDP, and this is the point above which many economists say interest repayments become problematic, this concerns me, The Liz 'Truss crash came about because the markets perceived that the borrowing she planned would have highly negative effects. We don't want Mk 2. Both plans ostensibly involved borrowing to trigger growth. Will the markets understand the difference between borrowing to fund tax cuts and borrowing to invest? I'm not sure.
On another matter, it looks as though Gray was pushed rather than stepping down of her own volition. Political commentators today are saying that Sir Keir decided she had to go. It seems that the consolation prize will be a seat in the Lords. [Post edited 8 Oct 11:14]
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| Sue Gray steps down on 10:17 - Oct 8 with 1060 views | onehunglow |
| Sue Gray steps down on 23:25 - Oct 7 by AnotherJohn |
The thing that is worrying me at the moment is the rumour that Rachel Reeves will change the fiscal rules to a "borrow to invest" approach, which depending on who is doing the calculation could give extra "head room" for borrowing of up to £50 billion p.a. As the national debt is already at 100% of GDP, and this is the point above which many economists say interest repayments become problematic, this concerns me, The Liz 'Truss crash came about because the markets perceived that the borrowing she planned would have highly negative effects. We don't want Mk 2. Both plans ostensibly involved borrowing to trigger growth. Will the markets understand the difference between borrowing to fund tax cuts and borrowing to invest? I'm not sure.
On another matter, it looks as though Gray was pushed rather than stepping down of her own volition. Political commentators today are saying that Sir Keir decided she had to go. It seems that the consolation prize will be a seat in the Lords. [Post edited 8 Oct 11:14]
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Rachel is simply a smiling assassin who could really impoverish many folk very soon,referred to as “ ordinary people”. They see people as tools and enemies .
We are in for really right times
I’m glad I’m reaching the end of my lifetime as I truly feel the future is bleak . | |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 11:13 - Oct 8 with 1052 views | Baptist |
| Sue Gray steps down on 20:44 - Oct 7 by onehunglow |
Might not be as bad but it doesn’t make it good
He’s been found out
More to come |
Rich, he's got one hell of a way to go to match what preceded him ? What £76K compared to the millions on Mone's wasted PPE, Johnson redecorating the flat (the Lytle debacle) and his private residence (Brownlow) + all those free holidays, Truss absolutely rinsing the taxpayer on foreign trips and beauty treatments.
Oddly enough the transgressions of the previous administration weren't widely reported in the Fail, Torygraph or Murdoch rags. But hey, they wasted no time on reporting on this storm in a teacup. I wonder why - actually I don't, it's painfully flipping obvious !
Oh and just look, there is everybody's favourite fat Etonian shed all over the papers going on about Starmer. Absolutely no end to his hypocrisy and entitlement. Perhaps he'll write another sht book about it soon.... [Post edited 8 Oct 11:16]
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| Sue Gray steps down on 12:04 - Oct 8 with 983 views | max936 |
| Sue Gray steps down on 11:13 - Oct 8 by Baptist |
Rich, he's got one hell of a way to go to match what preceded him ? What £76K compared to the millions on Mone's wasted PPE, Johnson redecorating the flat (the Lytle debacle) and his private residence (Brownlow) + all those free holidays, Truss absolutely rinsing the taxpayer on foreign trips and beauty treatments.
Oddly enough the transgressions of the previous administration weren't widely reported in the Fail, Torygraph or Murdoch rags. But hey, they wasted no time on reporting on this storm in a teacup. I wonder why - actually I don't, it's painfully flipping obvious !
Oh and just look, there is everybody's favourite fat Etonian shed all over the papers going on about Starmer. Absolutely no end to his hypocrisy and entitlement. Perhaps he'll write another sht book about it soon.... [Post edited 8 Oct 11:16]
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Excellent post that, fair play. |  |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 12:21 - Oct 8 with 974 views | onehunglow |
| Sue Gray steps down on 11:13 - Oct 8 by Baptist |
Rich, he's got one hell of a way to go to match what preceded him ? What £76K compared to the millions on Mone's wasted PPE, Johnson redecorating the flat (the Lytle debacle) and his private residence (Brownlow) + all those free holidays, Truss absolutely rinsing the taxpayer on foreign trips and beauty treatments.
Oddly enough the transgressions of the previous administration weren't widely reported in the Fail, Torygraph or Murdoch rags. But hey, they wasted no time on reporting on this storm in a teacup. I wonder why - actually I don't, it's painfully flipping obvious !
Oh and just look, there is everybody's favourite fat Etonian shed all over the papers going on about Starmer. Absolutely no end to his hypocrisy and entitlement. Perhaps he'll write another sht book about it soon.... [Post edited 8 Oct 11:16]
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Not disagreeing Jez but he’s made a good start at it . | |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 14:41 - Oct 8 with 882 views | Flashberryjack |
| Sue Gray steps down on 22:29 - Oct 7 by majorraglan |
Labour are being pulled up on freebies ( and quite rightly so) but since 2015 there’s been a distinctly uneven play field. We know what Starmer et al have received, but we don’t know what Government ministers have received over the past 9 years after Cameron changed the rules for ministers declarations.
Back in 2015 by the Cameron government removed or reduced the scrutiny around ministers gifts and hospitality. The changes “relaxed” what minsters were required to report but others including shadow ministers and back benchers were still required to declare their “donations” or “gifts” in full every fortnight. The 2015 changes could result in a situation where a minister and a shadow minister attended the same event, the minister wouldn’t have to make any declarations while the shadow minister would! That situation has gone on for 9 years and it can’t be right.
The registers relating to MP’s is updated and published monthly, however the ministers record is updated intermittently and was last published in December 2023 some 10 months ago. It also appears that ministers themselves had the leeway to determine what, if anything was relevant and what they should report. That begs the question how on earth did this arrangement come about ……do as I say don’t do as I do!!!!!! Cameron removed any meaningful scrutiny around MP’s gifts, donations or freebies.
The ministerial code says it is “a well established and recognised rule that no minister should accept gifts, hospitality or services from anyone which would, or might appear to, place him or her under an obligation”, it adds that this “is primarily a matter which must be left to the good sense of ministers”.
Under the new rules Starmer is introducing all will be now be treated the same way and have the same reporting requirements. That has to be a positive.
Starmer had around £100k over 5 years Boris had a huge secret donation for his flat with the gold wall paper, it’s been claimed he received between £175k and £200k which only came to light after a leak - Boris didn’t declare it whereas Starmer has published most of his. I’m not condoning Starmer because he shouldn’t have taken it - he was wrong plain and simple but let’s put things in perspectiive he’s not the only one and he’s now tightening up the rules. I’d love to see what Sunak et al have declared for December to July, but we may never know. |
We all know what a bunch of sleazy money grabbers the last government were, what concerns me is, they have been replaced by exactly the same.
And all the die hard labourites can come up with is a load of "whataboutery".
What's been done in the past can't be undone, we should be making sure the the new government are whiter than white, unfortunately at the moment they are looking just as grubby as the last bunch. | |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 15:27 - Oct 8 with 823 views | Whiterockin |
| Sue Gray steps down on 14:41 - Oct 8 by Flashberryjack |
We all know what a bunch of sleazy money grabbers the last government were, what concerns me is, they have been replaced by exactly the same.
And all the die hard labourites can come up with is a load of "whataboutery".
What's been done in the past can't be undone, we should be making sure the the new government are whiter than white, unfortunately at the moment they are looking just as grubby as the last bunch. |
Clearly those who have a strong affiliation to a particular party rigorously defend them, often when the evidence says otherwise. Those of us with no affiliation to any party and try to look at things without prejudice just look on and shake our head. |  | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 16:11 - Oct 8 with 741 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Sue Gray steps down on 15:27 - Oct 8 by Whiterockin |
Clearly those who have a strong affiliation to a particular party rigorously defend them, often when the evidence says otherwise. Those of us with no affiliation to any party and try to look at things without prejudice just look on and shake our head. |
Is the correct answer. |  |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 16:56 - Oct 8 with 699 views | raynor94 |
| Sue Gray steps down on 15:27 - Oct 8 by Whiterockin |
Clearly those who have a strong affiliation to a particular party rigorously defend them, often when the evidence says otherwise. Those of us with no affiliation to any party and try to look at things without prejudice just look on and shake our head. |
100% agree |  |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 17:11 - Oct 8 with 683 views | Scotia |
| Sue Gray steps down on 15:27 - Oct 8 by Whiterockin |
Clearly those who have a strong affiliation to a particular party rigorously defend them, often when the evidence says otherwise. Those of us with no affiliation to any party and try to look at things without prejudice just look on and shake our head. |
The problem is the press are the same and most of the press are on the political right.
Starmer and the freebie culture in the Labour party is wrong, but not as wrong as the Tories under Boris to a criminal degree.
Two wrongs don't make a right. No gifts, no donations and no lobbying. It's the only way forward.
It's been a long time since I last voted Labour, and I don't hate the Tories. But I hate what politics in the UK has descended in to. | | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 17:47 - Oct 8 with 637 views | majorraglan |
| Sue Gray steps down on 14:41 - Oct 8 by Flashberryjack |
We all know what a bunch of sleazy money grabbers the last government were, what concerns me is, they have been replaced by exactly the same.
And all the die hard labourites can come up with is a load of "whataboutery".
What's been done in the past can't be undone, we should be making sure the the new government are whiter than white, unfortunately at the moment they are looking just as grubby as the last bunch. |
I’m probably one of the posters you’re referring to as a die hard Labourite, but I’m not a Labour supporter and have never ever ever voted for them during my 40 plus years of being a voter.
What gets me is the double standards from what appears to be those who supported the last regime. Starmer is quite rightly being judged and found to have come up short, but we have no idea what the last tranche of ministers accepted because they changed the rules so that they could pick and chose what they declared, they also failed to publish any information for 7 months on what they did accept.
What’s been done in the past shouldn’t be brushed under the table, the period December 2023 to July 2024 should be published in its entirety. The last lot weren’t held to anything like the scrutiny Starmer has been in his first 3 months. The media they didn’t own, they set about trying to control. | | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 17:51 - Oct 8 with 618 views | Whiterockin |
| Sue Gray steps down on 17:47 - Oct 8 by majorraglan |
I’m probably one of the posters you’re referring to as a die hard Labourite, but I’m not a Labour supporter and have never ever ever voted for them during my 40 plus years of being a voter.
What gets me is the double standards from what appears to be those who supported the last regime. Starmer is quite rightly being judged and found to have come up short, but we have no idea what the last tranche of ministers accepted because they changed the rules so that they could pick and chose what they declared, they also failed to publish any information for 7 months on what they did accept.
What’s been done in the past shouldn’t be brushed under the table, the period December 2023 to July 2024 should be published in its entirety. The last lot weren’t held to anything like the scrutiny Starmer has been in his first 3 months. The media they didn’t own, they set about trying to control. |
I think it comes down to the standards Starmer said he was going to set and he has failed to follow it through. | | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 19:01 - Oct 8 with 554 views | max936 |
| Sue Gray steps down on 17:51 - Oct 8 by Whiterockin |
I think it comes down to the standards Starmer said he was going to set and he has failed to follow it through. |
He went back on stuff he said he'd do before he set both feet over the doorstep of | |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 19:02 - Oct 8 with 554 views | max936 |
| Sue Gray steps down on 17:51 - Oct 8 by Whiterockin |
I think it comes down to the standards Starmer said he was going to set and he has failed to follow it through. |
He went back on stuff he said he'd do before he set both feet over the doorstep of No10 | |
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| Sue Gray steps down on 19:12 - Oct 8 with 543 views | Baptist |
| Sue Gray steps down on 16:59 - Oct 8 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
If we ever want our politics to improve we have to have a zero tolerance approach to bad behaviour, even if the perpetrators are on “our side”. Instead of making excuses about it not being as bad or blaming the press. They’ve been getting away with shit like this for so long because there are so many people willing to forgive them. |
Sorry, my perspective is a bit different as I haven't lived in Wales since disappearing off to college in the last millennium (and not much in the way of family back there anymore  ).
I'm aware that there is a deal of frustration there from my fine countryfolk still resident though so you make a fair comment, of course.
I'm really not looking to be an apologist for him. Frankly, I would have thought Starmer, being a notably sharp individual, with the machinery he has behind him and the hostility of the "popular" press might not have made such a daft and easily avoidable gaff (a gift to the hacks). But he did, so yes, call it out - but at the same time, perspective and that (cf just Johnson on his own).... | | | |
| Sue Gray steps down on 21:29 - Oct 8 with 461 views | Dr_Winston |
One of my biggest regrets in life is that Cummings failed miserably in his desire to kick the shit out of senior Civil Service leadership.
Yes Minister/Prime Minister might have been a sitcom, but one perilously close to the truth. The Civil Service isn't fit for purpose. Capable people do get on, but not because they are capable.
In London, salaries are so low that anyone with anything about them steers clear, so important CS jobs go to any moron willing to apply for them. Further afield, advancement goes to those skilled in the application process, not the job. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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- but, full disclosure, I really hate the 'king Tories and, by any objective standard, with righteously justifiable reason..