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The only criticism I'd have of her is that she (like several other 'experts') said too much and too often and tried to be a joint-commentator rather than just adding insight when needed. I didn't have too much of a problem with the key points they made.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 10:35 - Dec 3 with 2749 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:48 - Dec 2 by terryb
Were they really that bad?
Apart from stating that Preston dominated the first half more than once, did she get much wrong? I recall early on her saying that Rangers look comfortable on the ball, but need to move it quicker. How many of us have been saying the same?
I would say that she then called the second half exactly as we would. Rangers passing the ball quicker & with more accuracy, plus playing balls into the penalty area.
Of course, she was fixated with the pocession stats in the first half, but was a hell of an improvement on most of Sky's Championship personnel IMO.
I thought she was no better or worse than the lazy idiots you get on Match of the Day every week, but she did insist for far longer than needed that the referee showed the wrong card to Lyndon for his jump and arm. All the reasons she gave why it should have been a red were exactly why the ref quite rightly booked him. Other than that, we didn't really give the commentators or pundits much to talk about before half time, other than defending ok, which isn't a very exciting thing for a commentator.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2023 11:43]
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 12:51 - Dec 3 with 2606 views
I did not think she was very good, but he, the supposed commentator, was much worse. Rather than give any description of the action, or even attempt to keep up with play they just kept talking about 'issues', usually long after it had any relevance. I find this happening more and more, it's all about talking points, rather than commentating. For the visually impaired it must be impossible to follow the game.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 18:09 - Dec 3 with 2446 views
The vast majority of pundits and commentators are awful, regardless of their sex. Bit the women get much more stick. One measure of progress is that it’s not just mediocre white men who get the jobs any longer. It’s mediocre women and people of colour, too. I’d prefer a world where the talented got all the breaks, but that’s not happening soon, so for now I’ll content myself with equal opportunities mediocrity.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 21:48 - Dec 3 with 2179 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 21:49 - Dec 2 by loftupper
seems to be a current trend of the anti-woke brigade to knock female commentators. Sure Sunak will be leading the charge in the hope of attracting a couple more votes
Seems to be a current trend of the woke brigade to always make gender/race/religion the issue and therefore support mediocrity.
The bottom line is that Friday's commentator was poor. That she happens to be female has nothing to do with it. Had she been male and made the same comments, I, and others like me, would have levelled the same constructive criticism.
We maintain that criticism but welcome any lucid, rational, evidence-based counter arguments. However, no amount of wokery will win me over and will be dismissed as the weak, irrational, unsubstantiated waffle that it is.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 21:57 - Dec 3 with 2152 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 10:01 - Dec 2 by Watford_Ranger
I guess you have to give people a chance somewhere and a Friday night game watched by exactly zero people who don’t support Preston or QPR is about as low key as it gets but yeah she was awful.
But she’s probably had years and years of local media, covering crap games, gradually working her way up and probably discriminated against at some point to get there. Rather that than some ex-footballer rolling out cliches who hasn’t heard of half the players and clearly done zero research.
"But she’s probably had years and years of local media, covering crap games, gradually working her way up and probably discriminated against at some point to get there".
And you know this how, exactly? Pure speculation masquerading as fact.
"but yeah she was awful"
That's the only fact in your argument and the reason why she was criticised. Nowt to do with her gender.
"Rather that than some ex-footballer rolling out cliches who hasn’t heard of half the players and clearly done zero research."
I'd rather that TV executives source real talent, irrespective of gender, rather than lazily handing out jobs to ex-footballers, YouTubers, and quota fillers.
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 21:48 - Dec 3 by Benny_the_Ball
Seems to be a current trend of the woke brigade to always make gender/race/religion the issue and therefore support mediocrity.
The bottom line is that Friday's commentator was poor. That she happens to be female has nothing to do with it. Had she been male and made the same comments, I, and others like me, would have levelled the same constructive criticism.
We maintain that criticism but welcome any lucid, rational, evidence-based counter arguments. However, no amount of wokery will win me over and will be dismissed as the weak, irrational, unsubstantiated waffle that it is.
I can't recall any constructive critism that you or others have posted. All I've read is that the co commentator was poor/very poor.
Compared to the rubbish that Hinchcliffe came out with during the West Bromich Leicester match, the comments at our game were measured & far more accurate.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:32 - Dec 4 with 1984 views
They should post these in every commentary box around the world. From Richie Benaud:
1. Develop a distinctive style.
2. Put your brain into gear before opening your mouth.
3. There are no teams in the TV world called ‘we’ or ‘they’.
4. Concentrate fiercely at all times.
5. Try to avoid allowing these past your lips: “Of course ...” “As you can see on the screen” “You know ...” “I tell you what ...”
6. Never say “That’s a tragedy or a disaster ...” — the Titanic was a tragedy, the Ethiopian drought a disaster, and neither bears any relation to a dropped catch.
7. Never ask a statement.
8. Remember the value of the pause.
9. Above all don’t take yourself too seriously, and have fun.
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:36 - Dec 4 by TheChef
They should post these in every commentary box around the world. From Richie Benaud:
1. Develop a distinctive style.
2. Put your brain into gear before opening your mouth.
3. There are no teams in the TV world called ‘we’ or ‘they’.
4. Concentrate fiercely at all times.
5. Try to avoid allowing these past your lips: “Of course ...” “As you can see on the screen” “You know ...” “I tell you what ...”
6. Never say “That’s a tragedy or a disaster ...” — the Titanic was a tragedy, the Ethiopian drought a disaster, and neither bears any relation to a dropped catch.
7. Never ask a statement.
8. Remember the value of the pause.
9. Above all don’t take yourself too seriously, and have fun.
Excellent.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 21:57 - Dec 3 by Benny_the_Ball
"But she’s probably had years and years of local media, covering crap games, gradually working her way up and probably discriminated against at some point to get there".
And you know this how, exactly? Pure speculation masquerading as fact.
"but yeah she was awful"
That's the only fact in your argument and the reason why she was criticised. Nowt to do with her gender.
"Rather that than some ex-footballer rolling out cliches who hasn’t heard of half the players and clearly done zero research."
I'd rather that TV executives source real talent, irrespective of gender, rather than lazily handing out jobs to ex-footballers, YouTubers, and quota fillers.
Well yeah but just making a point that she’s probably worked very hard to get that gig rather than just being thrown in on a whim as some ex-pros are. Plenty of good analysts, commentators etc. weren’t good at the start. Andy Gray was awful at the start of Sky with Keys dragging him through.
No masquerading as fact. Just logic and probability. For all I know she’s the daughter of someone high up at Sky and got an undeserved chance but for a woman to progress in such a male-dominated industry is generally very difficult no matter how much people bleat about “wokes” and “diversity hires”.
Ultimately who really cares?
[Post edited 4 Dec 2023 9:48]
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:56 - Dec 4 with 1896 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 10:01 - Dec 2 by Watford_Ranger
I guess you have to give people a chance somewhere and a Friday night game watched by exactly zero people who don’t support Preston or QPR is about as low key as it gets but yeah she was awful.
But she’s probably had years and years of local media, covering crap games, gradually working her way up and probably discriminated against at some point to get there. Rather that than some ex-footballer rolling out cliches who hasn’t heard of half the players and clearly done zero research.
Courtney Sweetman-Kirk IS a footballer currently with Sheffield United and not a full time journalist.
Sky seem to have decided that current footballers are worth employing (I’ve seen Tom Cairney as a pundit a few times) instead of ex footballers.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 10:14 - Dec 4 with 1861 views
As a very mild defence of Sky saying they couldn't believe Chair was on the bench, I think a lot of QPR fans felt the same judging by the replies to the team news on twitter
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 11:04 - Dec 4 with 1785 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 21:48 - Dec 3 by Benny_the_Ball
Seems to be a current trend of the woke brigade to always make gender/race/religion the issue and therefore support mediocrity.
The bottom line is that Friday's commentator was poor. That she happens to be female has nothing to do with it. Had she been male and made the same comments, I, and others like me, would have levelled the same constructive criticism.
We maintain that criticism but welcome any lucid, rational, evidence-based counter arguments. However, no amount of wokery will win me over and will be dismissed as the weak, irrational, unsubstantiated waffle that it is.
The fact you use woke as a pejorative illustrates a mindset that will always be critical of anything that ruffles your view of how the world should be. Courtney knows a lot more that you do about football as she plays to high standard, she lacks polished presentation skills but she is still better than 90% of the pundits that Sky employs. Alex Scott is one of the best footballer commentators on tv as is Isa Guha in the field of cricket. I don't believe for one second that they are employed because they are women, or because of their skin colour; they are both good commentators. I don't suppose this will help but hey ho; Woke (adjective) Aware of, and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice) The wokes you despise so much are people with a conscience and an empathy for others. They want a world that is better for everyone and not just those pulling the strings at the top of the Dragon pile.
The grass is always greener.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 15:29 - Dec 4 with 1686 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 11:04 - Dec 4 by Esox_Lucius
The fact you use woke as a pejorative illustrates a mindset that will always be critical of anything that ruffles your view of how the world should be. Courtney knows a lot more that you do about football as she plays to high standard, she lacks polished presentation skills but she is still better than 90% of the pundits that Sky employs. Alex Scott is one of the best footballer commentators on tv as is Isa Guha in the field of cricket. I don't believe for one second that they are employed because they are women, or because of their skin colour; they are both good commentators. I don't suppose this will help but hey ho; Woke (adjective) Aware of, and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice) The wokes you despise so much are people with a conscience and an empathy for others. They want a world that is better for everyone and not just those pulling the strings at the top of the Dragon pile.
Weak woke rhetoric that demonstrates a mindset that is unwilling to entertain any criticism or engage in any conversation that's uncomfortable. This stems from a begrudging realisation that your opposite number is right. Unable to accept this and construct a lucid, factual defence of your position, you resort to cancel tactics such as name-calling or diversion.
Your latest offering is a prime example of this. It's pure supposition that entirely misses the point; namely that this specific commentator was poor on Friday. This criticism had nothing to do with her gender so taking the conversation there is both irrelevant and disingenuous. The irony is that you're quick to criticise "90% of the pundits that Sky employs" with no examples or evidence to support this theory, let alone recognition that your hasty 'statistic' will invariably include women.
Now, you may happen to have lower standards than I and therefore believe that this particular commentator did a good job on Friday. That's fine but build a case, supported by evidence, based on this point rather than making this about gender.
[Post edited 4 Dec 2023 15:35]
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 15:42 - Dec 4 with 1642 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:45 - Dec 4 by Watford_Ranger
Well yeah but just making a point that she’s probably worked very hard to get that gig rather than just being thrown in on a whim as some ex-pros are. Plenty of good analysts, commentators etc. weren’t good at the start. Andy Gray was awful at the start of Sky with Keys dragging him through.
No masquerading as fact. Just logic and probability. For all I know she’s the daughter of someone high up at Sky and got an undeserved chance but for a woman to progress in such a male-dominated industry is generally very difficult no matter how much people bleat about “wokes” and “diversity hires”.
Ultimately who really cares?
[Post edited 4 Dec 2023 9:48]
With all due respect, again this is supposition. In your own words, "For all I know she’s the daughter of someone high up at Sky", yet initially you chose to run with the theory that she's had to graft her way up the ladder whilst confronting discrimination on route. As it turns out, neither of these dangerous assumptions were true. She's simply a current footballer who was invited to co-commentate!
[Post edited 4 Dec 2023 15:43]
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 15:44 - Dec 4 with 1632 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 08:56 - Dec 4 by terryb
I can't recall any constructive critism that you or others have posted. All I've read is that the co commentator was poor/very poor.
Compared to the rubbish that Hinchcliffe came out with during the West Bromich Leicester match, the comments at our game were measured & far more accurate.
Then perhaps you need to learn to read rather than rely on recollections. It's there if you can be bothered to look.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 16:00 - Dec 4 with 1597 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 18:09 - Dec 3 by NW5Hoop
The vast majority of pundits and commentators are awful, regardless of their sex. Bit the women get much more stick. One measure of progress is that it’s not just mediocre white men who get the jobs any longer. It’s mediocre women and people of colour, too. I’d prefer a world where the talented got all the breaks, but that’s not happening soon, so for now I’ll content myself with equal opportunities mediocrity.
Firstly, it's a complete myth that female commentators and pundits get more stick. I, along with many, think Alex Scott is an excellent pundit, and enjoy her delivery and insight.
Secondly, I refuse to accept mediocrity, irrespective of gender or race. Some felt that Billy Rice's commentary of the Norwich game was distinctly average whilst others enjoyed it. Fair enough, a difference of opinions. Some preferred Nick London whilst others have gone on record as stating that he wasn't their cup of tea. Again, fair enough, one man's cup of tea is another man's poison. However, in neither case did anyone defend criticism of Billy or Nick by jumping on gender. Why? Because both happen to be male.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 16:01 - Dec 4 with 1603 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:42 - Dec 4 by BrianMcCarthy
Excellent.
It is excellent and Richie was probably the greatest commentator in any sport ever. But it's one thing to apply those to a sedate game of cricket, and another in a bish bash bosh game of football - several of them not even relevant.
I have to chuckle about some of the criticism of pundits and commentators. It is an incredibly hard job, and there's no real way to learn how to do it other than to be on TV doing it, or maybe the radio. People seem to think it's an easy job, but that's unbelievably naive and very unfair. I think Sky have some excellent pundits, male and female. On the BBC, Lineker is simply a superb anchor of sport, as is Hazel Irvine and others. Just because you don't agree with someone, doesn't make them mediocre or talking rubbish.
Please note: none of the above applies to Hinchcliffe who truly is the worst pundit in the history of all sport in any country in history.
Bare bones.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 16:04 - Dec 4 with 1585 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:56 - Dec 4 by Ned_Kennedys
Courtney Sweetman-Kirk IS a footballer currently with Sheffield United and not a full time journalist.
Sky seem to have decided that current footballers are worth employing (I’ve seen Tom Cairney as a pundit a few times) instead of ex footballers.
Finally, a simple, logical argument that doesn't resort to gender, race or religion.
If she is a current footballer who was invited to co-commentate then it's understandable that she lacks presentational skills. Equally, I'm not particularly impressed by Cairney.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 16:08 - Dec 4 with 1570 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 09:36 - Dec 4 by TheChef
They should post these in every commentary box around the world. From Richie Benaud:
1. Develop a distinctive style.
2. Put your brain into gear before opening your mouth.
3. There are no teams in the TV world called ‘we’ or ‘they’.
4. Concentrate fiercely at all times.
5. Try to avoid allowing these past your lips: “Of course ...” “As you can see on the screen” “You know ...” “I tell you what ...”
6. Never say “That’s a tragedy or a disaster ...” — the Titanic was a tragedy, the Ethiopian drought a disaster, and neither bears any relation to a dropped catch.
7. Never ask a statement.
8. Remember the value of the pause.
9. Above all don’t take yourself too seriously, and have fun.
This.
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Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 16:15 - Dec 4 with 1565 views
Sky ( the entertainment at Preston) on 16:04 - Dec 4 by Benny_the_Ball
Finally, a simple, logical argument that doesn't resort to gender, race or religion.
If she is a current footballer who was invited to co-commentate then it's understandable that she lacks presentational skills. Equally, I'm not particularly impressed by Cairney.
She has presented (of sorts) as she has for the last two or three seasons at least been one of Sky's live match reporters on Soccer Saturday although I don't recall seeing her on it this season when I've seen it.
For me, I quite like Sue Smith as a pundit on Sky. She knows what she's talking about.
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