| Donald Trump 18:10 - Nov 2 with 17153 views | 1983 |
Odds on favourite to be next President ?
Just when you thought the world couldn't get any madder |  |
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| Donald Trump on 17:25 - Dec 21 with 1443 views | AnotherJohn |
The choice between Biden and Trump is indeed a depressing one. It looks to me that Biden's crazy policy regarding the southern border is going to clinch things for Trump. I cannot see the Supreme Court going along with the Colorado judgement. The most convincing analysis I've seen is that Trump will be let off the hook because he has not been convicted of an offense involving insurrection. There is therefore an issue of due process. It is not enough that some judges in Colorado think Trump may have been an insurrectionist. I am not celebrating because I am strongly opposed to Trump's policy on Ukraine (even though I wouldn't be surprised to see him change that policy at the drop of a hat). [Post edited 21 Dec 2023 18:18]
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| Donald Trump on 18:22 - Dec 21 with 1412 views | Gwyn737 |
| Donald Trump on 17:25 - Dec 21 by AnotherJohn |
The choice between Biden and Trump is indeed a depressing one. It looks to me that Biden's crazy policy regarding the southern border is going to clinch things for Trump. I cannot see the Supreme Court going along with the Colorado judgement. The most convincing analysis I've seen is that Trump will be let off the hook because he has not been convicted of an offense involving insurrection. There is therefore an issue of due process. It is not enough that some judges in Colorado think Trump may have been an insurrectionist. I am not celebrating because I am strongly opposed to Trump's policy on Ukraine (even though I wouldn't be surprised to see him change that policy at the drop of a hat). [Post edited 21 Dec 2023 18:18]
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I think you’re probably right on the conviction. I’d also say in balance that in regards to ruining democracy his accusations of vote rigging are probably worse that the insurrection stuff.
In regards to Ukraine, it could have massive implications for us. If he carries on with his current course it’ll leave Starmer (assuming he wins the GE) front and centre in terms of support. | | | |
| Donald Trump on 18:41 - Dec 21 with 1399 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Donald Trump on 17:25 - Dec 21 by AnotherJohn |
The choice between Biden and Trump is indeed a depressing one. It looks to me that Biden's crazy policy regarding the southern border is going to clinch things for Trump. I cannot see the Supreme Court going along with the Colorado judgement. The most convincing analysis I've seen is that Trump will be let off the hook because he has not been convicted of an offense involving insurrection. There is therefore an issue of due process. It is not enough that some judges in Colorado think Trump may have been an insurrectionist. I am not celebrating because I am strongly opposed to Trump's policy on Ukraine (even though I wouldn't be surprised to see him change that policy at the drop of a hat). [Post edited 21 Dec 2023 18:18]
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Trump will not win due to the Roe v Wade issue.
Women will back Biden in big numbers.
Thats if he does run. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Donald Trump on 21:10 - Dec 21 with 1336 views | majorraglan |
| Donald Trump on 18:41 - Dec 21 by Kilkennyjack |
Trump will not win due to the Roe v Wade issue.
Women will back Biden in big numbers.
Thats if he does run. |
I’m not sure on about that, Biden is trailing at the moment and barring a huge increase in the economy and prosperity it’s by no means a very Biden will win.
Surely there must be a better ticket on the Democrat platform than Biden / Harris pairing, Biden getting on now and you’d think the greater good should be the focus. | | | |
| Donald Trump on 21:34 - Dec 21 with 1330 views | Scotia |
| Donald Trump on 21:10 - Dec 21 by majorraglan |
I’m not sure on about that, Biden is trailing at the moment and barring a huge increase in the economy and prosperity it’s by no means a very Biden will win.
Surely there must be a better ticket on the Democrat platform than Biden / Harris pairing, Biden getting on now and you’d think the greater good should be the focus. |
A little while ago I was listening to an American polling expert on the radio. He said the only democrat candidate that could lose to Trump is Biden or Harris.
Surely the Democrats have to pension Joe off and find a decent candidate? And I don't mean Robert Kennedy.
I honestly can't believe the two best candidates for the US president are those two. | | | |
| Donald Trump on 01:30 - Dec 22 with 1300 views | DJack |
| Donald Trump on 17:25 - Dec 21 by AnotherJohn |
The choice between Biden and Trump is indeed a depressing one. It looks to me that Biden's crazy policy regarding the southern border is going to clinch things for Trump. I cannot see the Supreme Court going along with the Colorado judgement. The most convincing analysis I've seen is that Trump will be let off the hook because he has not been convicted of an offense involving insurrection. There is therefore an issue of due process. It is not enough that some judges in Colorado think Trump may have been an insurrectionist. I am not celebrating because I am strongly opposed to Trump's policy on Ukraine (even though I wouldn't be surprised to see him change that policy at the drop of a hat). [Post edited 21 Dec 2023 18:18]
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" It is not enough that some judges in Colorado think Trump may have been an insurrectionist."
Incorrect. Often a State Supreme Court does decide on law which is then enacted throughout. However, in this case I expect the US Supreme Court to rule on it though...BUT Clarence DEFINITELY needs to recuse himself.
For consideration...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/dont-read-the-colorado-ruling- |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Donald Trump on 01:31 - Dec 22 with 1299 views | DJack |
Most polling experts know that the numbers this far out from the election mean naff-all. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Donald Trump on 01:56 - Dec 22 with 1294 views | DJack |
It appears that the Texas branch of QANON has disappeared after talking arrant nonsense.
Colour me surprised. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Donald Trump on 08:38 - Dec 22 with 1256 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Donald Trump on 21:10 - Dec 21 by majorraglan |
I’m not sure on about that, Biden is trailing at the moment and barring a huge increase in the economy and prosperity it’s by no means a very Biden will win.
Surely there must be a better ticket on the Democrat platform than Biden / Harris pairing, Biden getting on now and you’d think the greater good should be the focus. |
Both too old.
Trump 3 years younger but obviously in worse shape physically.
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| Donald Trump on 22:30 - Dec 22 with 1181 views | DJack |
There doesn't have to be "due process".
If you are under 35, you cant be president...no due process
If you are born a foreign national, you cant be president...no due process
If you are adjudged to have commited insurrection, you cant be president...no due process.
The US supreme court will have to adjudicate. They will probably weasel some blather to allow him to run. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Donald Trump on 14:18 - Dec 23 with 1128 views | scruffyjack |
Under Biden the US has recorded the lowest unemployment rate for decades and the Dow hit its highest level ever. Not bad for an old fella.
In the other camp you have the biggest danger to democracy that America has ever faced. | | | |
| Donald Trump on 15:09 - Dec 23 with 1112 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Donald Trump on 14:18 - Dec 23 by scruffyjack |
Under Biden the US has recorded the lowest unemployment rate for decades and the Dow hit its highest level ever. Not bad for an old fella.
In the other camp you have the biggest danger to democracy that America has ever faced. |
Spot on the money. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Donald Trump on 15:38 - Dec 23 with 1103 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Donald Trump on 22:30 - Dec 22 by DJack |
There doesn't have to be "due process".
If you are under 35, you cant be president...no due process
If you are born a foreign national, you cant be president...no due process
If you are adjudged to have commited insurrection, you cant be president...no due process.
The US supreme court will have to adjudicate. They will probably weasel some blather to allow him to run. |
So if the Supreme Court quashes this ruling they are “weaselling some blather” whereas the Colorado court made an informed decision made by wise and learned men and women?
What if the Colorado court are weaselling some blather because they are politically opposed to trump? |  |
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| Donald Trump on 15:49 - Dec 23 with 1099 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Donald Trump on 08:38 - Dec 22 by Kilkennyjack |
Both too old.
Trump 3 years younger but obviously in worse shape physically.
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There should be a maximum age. Biden clearly has some form of dementia or similar condition. It’s undeniable at this point. And trump is a blubbering sweaty mess, can’t see him being around for much longer either. Obesity at any age isn’t a good thing but at his age he’s really going to struggle soon.
It’s not a new thing though they’ve been covering up presidents illnesses for as long as they’ve had presidents. | |
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| Donald Trump on 18:22 - Dec 23 with 1072 views | shingle |
| Donald Trump on 15:49 - Dec 23 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
There should be a maximum age. Biden clearly has some form of dementia or similar condition. It’s undeniable at this point. And trump is a blubbering sweaty mess, can’t see him being around for much longer either. Obesity at any age isn’t a good thing but at his age he’s really going to struggle soon.
It’s not a new thing though they’ve been covering up presidents illnesses for as long as they’ve had presidents. |
Just the one more term it is then. | | | |
| Donald Trump on 18:41 - Dec 23 with 1065 views | onehunglow |
Biden might have early dementia
Trump has terminal dilusionary arrogance .
His ego will kill him.
Literally
A filthy ,disgusting narcissus | |
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| Donald Trump on 20:27 - Dec 23 with 1042 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Donald Trump on 18:41 - Dec 23 by onehunglow |
Biden might have early dementia
Trump has terminal dilusionary arrogance .
His ego will kill him.
Literally
A filthy ,disgusting narcissus |
Just Amazing in a country the size of USA they can't find two decent candidates. | |
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| Donald Trump on 22:31 - Dec 23 with 1029 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Donald Trump on 18:41 - Dec 23 by onehunglow |
Biden might have early dementia
Trump has terminal dilusionary arrogance .
His ego will kill him.
Literally
A filthy ,disgusting narcissus |
It’s not that early he’s 81! | |
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| Donald Trump on 08:19 - Dec 24 with 998 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Donald Trump on 22:30 - Dec 22 by DJack |
There doesn't have to be "due process".
If you are under 35, you cant be president...no due process
If you are born a foreign national, you cant be president...no due process
If you are adjudged to have commited insurrection, you cant be president...no due process.
The US supreme court will have to adjudicate. They will probably weasel some blather to allow him to run. |
Well I'm far from an expert but I have, over the years seen stories where criminals have gotten away with it because due process wasn't followed. Technicalities can be king in shaking off a charge.
Besides, when the USA passes a law it will have gone through due process in the Senate and Congress and will have been signed of by the POTUS.
Then the applicatin of that law must follow due process otherwise a decent lawyer would get the charges thrown out.
The three requirements to be POTUS are in Article 2 of the constitution ( I looked it up) so they have been there for a very long time, has anybody ever challenged them or claimed they do/did not follow due process? | | | |
| Donald Trump on 10:50 - Dec 24 with 966 views | AnotherJohn |
| Donald Trump on 08:19 - Dec 24 by SullutaCreturned |
Well I'm far from an expert but I have, over the years seen stories where criminals have gotten away with it because due process wasn't followed. Technicalities can be king in shaking off a charge.
Besides, when the USA passes a law it will have gone through due process in the Senate and Congress and will have been signed of by the POTUS.
Then the applicatin of that law must follow due process otherwise a decent lawyer would get the charges thrown out.
The three requirements to be POTUS are in Article 2 of the constitution ( I looked it up) so they have been there for a very long time, has anybody ever challenged them or claimed they do/did not follow due process? |
The irony here is that while DJack is saying due process is not relevant, that is exactly what the main thrust of the 14 th Amendment is about.
“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”… 14(1)
As I understand things (and as you say it is easy to get things wrong), the Colorado Supreme Court majority judgement held that the finding of the District Court that Trump was an insurrectionist was in itself sufficient due process, and therefore made a criminal conviction unnecessary. One of the 3 dissenting judges disagreed on this and two on other points. In the wider debate one line of argument concerns whether there are different due process protections in criminal law than in civil law, so that for example Trump would be entitled to the usual due process protections and his day in court in respect of the criminal allegations concerning interference in vote counting, but not in respect of the 14th Amendment angle.
In similar cases in other states the issue of whether the former President was an “officer of the United States” (as specified by 14(3)) was what stopped judges ruling that Trump was ineligible to be a Presidential candidate, and that could be another thing the Supreme Court considers.
In the context of Presidential age, citizenship and residency requirements, due process simply means that the candidate is given a fair opportunity to establish these things. Usually this means getting over a lower bar in terms of showing documentary evidence of eligibility. The area where there has been more legal debate and some judgements in lower courts (but not the Supreme Court) is the requirement that a candidate must be a “natural born citizen”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause_(United_States)
So even in these seemingly straightforward areas due process remains an issue.
What I always think about such matters though is that there is a high degree of unpredictability in legal judgments. The posters who say “the law is the law” haven’t appreciated how often different judges at different times reach different conclusions. [Post edited 25 Dec 2023 14:51]
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| Donald Trump on 13:45 - Dec 24 with 934 views | Gwyn737 |
Both sides keep screaming at each other and are incapable of listening to another point of view.
As I’ve said before I don’t think this current attempt to stop Trump running will work, however the irony of many of those calling it unfair were happy to swallow the Obama birth certificate nonsense.
We need to keep an eye on the US as a cautionary tale. | | | |
| Donald Trump on 14:24 - Dec 24 with 907 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Donald Trump on 13:45 - Dec 24 by Gwyn737 |
Both sides keep screaming at each other and are incapable of listening to another point of view.
As I’ve said before I don’t think this current attempt to stop Trump running will work, however the irony of many of those calling it unfair were happy to swallow the Obama birth certificate nonsense.
We need to keep an eye on the US as a cautionary tale. |
Socrates was railing against the inevitable demagoguery of democracy and effect of cult of personality over rational thought in Ancient Greece thousands of years ago. They killed him for it. Thankfully he did make a fantastic comeback in the 1982 World Cup with a string of world class performances. Unfortunately he couldn’t plot a way past the overly defensive street wise time wasting Italians who ultimately went on to win the tournament.
This demagoguery is why I believe having an impotent (not in that way says camilla) and apolitical head of state is important to limit the power of individuals and encourage more consensus in parliament. It’s also important to play with a lot of width to make the pitch bigger and stretch these over defensive teams. And to keep your composure and not get wound up at the opponents obvious gamesmanship. | |
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| Donald Trump on 14:25 - Dec 24 with 906 views | onehunglow |
| Donald Trump on 20:27 - Dec 23 by felixstowe_jack |
Just Amazing in a country the size of USA they can't find two decent candidates. |
Very true | |
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| Donald Trump on 20:17 - Dec 24 with 867 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Donald Trump on 20:27 - Dec 23 by felixstowe_jack |
Just Amazing in a country the size of USA they can't find two decent candidates. |
They could but don’t want to | |
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