| Gazball 08:33 - Apr 30 with 32714 views | DWQPR |
Was thinking that if more teams adopted Gazball as we’ve seen in the last couple of matches, could it leave the ball left on the halfway line with both teams sitting deep in their own halves waiting for the other team to make a move? |  |
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| Gazball on 11:48 - May 3 with 2179 views | hubble |
Listen to Rfer, he speaks sense! |  |
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| Gazball on 12:03 - May 3 with 2120 views | daveB |
| Gazball on 11:39 - May 3 by R_from_afar |
Dave, what I think is happening is that some people have decided that if his style is not the most modern and most progressive, it must be the polar opposite.
I have watched a lot of Gareth's Wycombe live over five or six seasons and it wasn't prehistoric hoofball. I will happily agree that it was not the state of the art passing game, but it was not built on aimless long balls and grinding out attritional 1-0 wins. They moved the ball forward quickly down the wings, not always aerially, and did use tall target men but it wasn't about constantly launching it down the middle to the big man. I always found Wycombe's football attacking and exciting.
I just think some people, perhaps understandably worn down by all the false dawns and upheaval we have had both this season and for many before it, are unnecessarily worried, are making the style issue too binary, and are convincing themselves that if the football isn't based on progressive passing, it must be outdated and basic. I haven't seen evidence that it will be.
As some have said, we'll see.
PS: As a footnote, some posters have said Luton are doing a lot of good things we would do well to emulate. I was trying to remember an attacking midfielder I saw do well at Wycombe. It turns out it was Onyedinma and where is he now? Luton. |
I can only go by what I've seen of him at QPR and the style of play has been diabolical so far.
That Birmingham home game was a major red flag for me and it's got worse since then
Maybe it will be fantastic next season, and this style people are talking about him playing will appear, i certainly hope so but I'm not sure why we're trying to pretend that Ainsworth is going to be anything other than very direct in his approach.
I also have major concerns about the type of players he wants to bring in, after getting in this mess partly due to letting Beale do what he wanted I find it staggering we're going to try and fix that by letting Ainsworth do the same. |  | | |
| Gazball on 12:04 - May 3 with 2117 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 11:46 - May 3 by ibnumber10 |
Thanks for posting that E17, sounds like a very sensible pragmatic approach. I hope the board / owners give him the time he needs and don’t flip flop with their expectations and decisions. We are now going into the 4th transfer window in a row with a different manager. This is going to be pivotal to get the recruitment right given the ongoing losses, and the lack of ffp headroom. It’s a massive job now but it’s also a massive opportunity for Gareth. |
Can I just point out that what GA said to E17 is pretty much exactly what I've been saying for the last two weeks?? | | | |
| Gazball on 12:13 - May 3 with 2080 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 12:03 - May 3 by daveB |
I can only go by what I've seen of him at QPR and the style of play has been diabolical so far.
That Birmingham home game was a major red flag for me and it's got worse since then
Maybe it will be fantastic next season, and this style people are talking about him playing will appear, i certainly hope so but I'm not sure why we're trying to pretend that Ainsworth is going to be anything other than very direct in his approach.
I also have major concerns about the type of players he wants to bring in, after getting in this mess partly due to letting Beale do what he wanted I find it staggering we're going to try and fix that by letting Ainsworth do the same. |
Worse since Birmingham - really, Dave?
This is what wories me about your position and those who feel similar to how you do.
I feel that people are starting to pine for the "good old days" of two seasons ago, and forgetting the long winless run that Warbs had at the end of last season, and how close he was to getting the push before then (as he himself admitted).
I seem to be one of the few on here who actually enjoyed the Stoke game at the weekend, as well as the second half in particular against Burnley. I found our approach perfectly watchable, particular Lowe's close control in the "hold up and lay" role.
i think you can easily add in some intricate midfield play to that mix - so long as its progressive and not passing for the sake of passing (which even Guardiola has gone on record as saying he hates btw). | | | |
| Gazball on 12:15 - May 3 with 2062 views | BerkoRanger |
| Gazball on 10:20 - May 3 by E17hoop |
Spoke to GA at the kit sponsors' event last night. He's not stupid and 20% possession isn't the way he wants to play. He also knows what our limitations are and used the system the best way to get the points we needed. Every team who have gone toe to toe against Burnley this season have been burned so why try and outplay a team you can't compete against - some of the players recognised that too.
He couldn't play 20% possession at home - the crowd would destroy the team very quickly. However, away from home, with the home fans desperate to get a goal against an immovable object, it has its benefits. It pÃsses teams off and they get frustrated. Wouldn't it be nice to be a QPR team no-one wants to play against?
I'm not expecting it'll be the way we play in the future and to assume it will be, based on the position we were on is a big step. |
Exactly.
Its going to be very interesting to see the tactics employed by the Prem relegation teams in their final 4 games. Are they going to try and outplay teams like Man City or just park the bus?
Needs must and all that. | | | |
| Gazball on 12:20 - May 3 with 2019 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 12:15 - May 3 by BerkoRanger |
Exactly.
Its going to be very interesting to see the tactics employed by the Prem relegation teams in their final 4 games. Are they going to try and outplay teams like Man City or just park the bus?
Needs must and all that. |
Man City went direct against Arsenal, as I said elsewhere, Berko, and scored two goals from it! Of course, because its them, that gets labelled "exciting" and "dynamic".
When we do it, our own fanbase calls it "prehistoric".. | | | |
| Gazball on 12:33 - May 3 with 1938 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Gazball on 12:20 - May 3 by E15Hoop |
Man City went direct against Arsenal, as I said elsewhere, Berko, and scored two goals from it! Of course, because its them, that gets labelled "exciting" and "dynamic".
When we do it, our own fanbase calls it "prehistoric".. |
That's a stretch.
I watched City-Arsenal and their passing from back to midfield to beat the press was pinpoint. It was met with superb control and excellent lay-offs to lighting support runners.
If we did that against Burnley and Stoke, we'd all have been delighted. We didn't. What we did wasn't the third cousin of it. |  |
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| Gazball on 12:39 - May 3 with 1889 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 12:33 - May 3 by BrianMcCarthy |
That's a stretch.
I watched City-Arsenal and their passing from back to midfield to beat the press was pinpoint. It was met with superb control and excellent lay-offs to lighting support runners.
If we did that against Burnley and Stoke, we'd all have been delighted. We didn't. What we did wasn't the third cousin of it. |
We will have to agree to disagree, Brian. I accept Man City used the central midfield option from back to front more than we did (as you would expect given their personnel), but I would suggest we used hold up and lay actually very well against Stoke in particular.
I don't remember too many people complaining about that when it was Heidar Helguson doing the holding up and laying off to great effect, but we now have posters on here describing that idea as "unacceptable", despite the fact its yielded decent dividends in recent games at least. | | | |
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| Gazball on 12:41 - May 3 with 1883 views | QPR_John |
| Gazball on 10:40 - May 3 by PhilmyRs |
Would ebs have chosen Wycombe if given the chance? or did the club choose Wycome for him? Would you expect GA to talk Richards down, he's an asset, of course he has to talk him up, the other part of that question is, do you think Richards would have signed for us in the first place if it was Gareth in charge and not Beale?
You're right, we have spoken on this and neither of us will be able to tell until months/years down the line on who was right, but it does feel quite a leap of faith to read too much into Eze's development at Wycombe and some of what he's said about Richards - he hasn't started him in a game yet has he? maybe once, - as evidence that he'll be good for development. In 10 years at Wycombe (a hell of a long time as Manager), his record for developing and selling on young talent is not a major strength of the Manager. |
"Would ebs have chosen Wycombe if given the chance? or did the club choose Wycome for him?"
I don't get the point you are trying to make. Correct me if I aw wrong but you seem to be suggesting that Eze may not have wanted to go to Wycombe I assume because he saw no way he could improve under Ainsworth's style of play. However you are saying the club were prepared to send a valuable assett to Wycombe to learn more. Does not put the club in good light does it or maybe as has been shown the club was right and maybe Eze was happy to go. | | | |
| Gazball on 12:44 - May 3 with 1861 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Gazball on 12:39 - May 3 by E15Hoop |
We will have to agree to disagree, Brian. I accept Man City used the central midfield option from back to front more than we did (as you would expect given their personnel), but I would suggest we used hold up and lay actually very well against Stoke in particular.
I don't remember too many people complaining about that when it was Heidar Helguson doing the holding up and laying off to great effect, but we now have posters on here describing that idea as "unacceptable", despite the fact its yielded decent dividends in recent games at least. |
Is anyone doing that, though? I haven't seen it as such.
Hold-up play - by Helgusson, Furlong, Gallen - or others is a huge part of how Rangers have played for decades and is usually warmly applauded as long as the ball isn't dropped on them aimlessly.
[Post edited 3 May 2023 12:46]
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| Gazball on 12:45 - May 3 with 1851 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 12:41 - May 3 by QPR_John |
"Would ebs have chosen Wycombe if given the chance? or did the club choose Wycome for him?"
I don't get the point you are trying to make. Correct me if I aw wrong but you seem to be suggesting that Eze may not have wanted to go to Wycombe I assume because he saw no way he could improve under Ainsworth's style of play. However you are saying the club were prepared to send a valuable assett to Wycombe to learn more. Does not put the club in good light does it or maybe as has been shown the club was right and maybe Eze was happy to go. |
Eze was certainly happy that he went, John, as he has posted himself on numerous occasions, particulalry in response to a recent article that GA was quoted in extensively where he was saying that he thought EE deserved to get a call up to the England WC squad. | | | |
| Gazball on 12:50 - May 3 with 1825 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 12:44 - May 3 by BrianMcCarthy |
Is anyone doing that, though? I haven't seen it as such.
Hold-up play - by Helgusson, Furlong, Gallen - or others is a huge part of how Rangers have played for decades and is usually warmly applauded as long as the ball isn't dropped on them aimlessly.
[Post edited 3 May 2023 12:46]
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By balanced and rational people like yourself, Brian, maybe, but not by a number of the posters who I have been to-ing and fro-ing with in the last couple of weeks, who feel that its only proper, decent football if we play exclusively like Swansea do. | | | |
| Gazball on 12:59 - May 3 with 1793 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Gazball on 12:33 - May 3 by BrianMcCarthy |
That's a stretch.
I watched City-Arsenal and their passing from back to midfield to beat the press was pinpoint. It was met with superb control and excellent lay-offs to lighting support runners.
If we did that against Burnley and Stoke, we'd all have been delighted. We didn't. What we did wasn't the third cousin of it. |
Agree - there's quick forward passing, and there's high-in-the-air percentage balls and hoping to win the second ball. Those two things are hugely different, it's astonishing anyone could even remotely compare our current style with what Man City do with Haaland. |  |
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| Gazball on 13:01 - May 3 with 1787 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Gazball on 12:50 - May 3 by E15Hoop |
By balanced and rational people like yourself, Brian, maybe, but not by a number of the posters who I have been to-ing and fro-ing with in the last couple of weeks, who feel that its only proper, decent football if we play exclusively like Swansea do. |
Literally no one has said any of this.
Comparing how we played with Helguson to what we've done recently is laughable, I'm sorry. | |
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| Gazball on 13:03 - May 3 with 1775 views | ibnumber10 |
| Gazball on 12:04 - May 3 by E15Hoop |
Can I just point out that what GA said to E17 is pretty much exactly what I've been saying for the last two weeks?? |
Thanks for replying to my post E15, can you also reply to the question I asked you when you said that there are people on the forum who think we should be in the market for a £10 million striker? | | | |
| Gazball on 13:08 - May 3 with 1748 views | daveB |
| Gazball on 12:13 - May 3 by E15Hoop |
Worse since Birmingham - really, Dave?
This is what wories me about your position and those who feel similar to how you do.
I feel that people are starting to pine for the "good old days" of two seasons ago, and forgetting the long winless run that Warbs had at the end of last season, and how close he was to getting the push before then (as he himself admitted).
I seem to be one of the few on here who actually enjoyed the Stoke game at the weekend, as well as the second half in particular against Burnley. I found our approach perfectly watchable, particular Lowe's close control in the "hold up and lay" role.
i think you can easily add in some intricate midfield play to that mix - so long as its progressive and not passing for the sake of passing (which even Guardiola has gone on record as saying he hates btw). |
yeah I thought Preston and Coventry at home was worse, Wigan wasn't great either.
I have said multiple times I had no issues with the Stoke and Burnley games, both were do what you have to do performances and we did them very well. It's the previous ones that bother me and give me concerns about next season. I hope I'm wrong but it's not about wanting pretty football, I just don't think you win many games in this league playing the style we have the last few months.
I also haven't forgotten the run Warbs had last season which was nowhere near as bad as what we've done since November this season but not great and a big part of why he left. | | | |
| Gazball on 13:11 - May 3 with 1728 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 13:03 - May 3 by ibnumber10 |
Thanks for replying to my post E15, can you also reply to the question I asked you when you said that there are people on the forum who think we should be in the market for a £10 million striker? |
OK. Yes. Names of the guilty have been long forgotten by me,as, to be fair to them, I'm not talking in the last couple of weeks specifically, but certainly in weeks preceding. | | | |
| Gazball on 13:14 - May 3 with 1712 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 13:01 - May 3 by Antti_Heinola |
Literally no one has said any of this.
Comparing how we played with Helguson to what we've done recently is laughable, I'm sorry. |
But its certainly closer to that than Dickie-Dunne-Dieng-Dunne-Dickie was is it not, which is the root of the point I was making. | | | |
| Gazball on 13:17 - May 3 with 1687 views | TheChef |
| Gazball on 10:23 - May 3 by daveB |
Why is his style perceived?
He's been a manager 10 years and always played the same way just as he has in the last few months here. The formations may change but his style is to play direct football. He openly says it himself. Thats not a criticism of him, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play this way but lets not pretend this is all forced on him. You know what you get with Ainsworth just like you knew what you got with Redknapp, Warburton, JFH etc, none of them changed when they got here, they did the same as they had done everywhere else in their career.
The big thing for me this summer is the club have to decide what we are as a club. Are we manager gets what he wants and if it goes wrong we throw it in the bin and start again or do we have a playing style throughout the club, sign players and managers to fit that style and have a recruitment team to implement that. I don't have the answer but the club has to decide very quickly which way they are going to go and stick to it |
Going back to Bazza's post from a Wycome fan - he's pragmatic and flexible.
That's fine by me.
Like I said let's see where we are come the start of the new season and see how he gets on. [Post edited 3 May 2023 13:21]
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| Gazball on 13:19 - May 3 with 1669 views | PhilmyRs |
| Gazball on 12:41 - May 3 by QPR_John |
"Would ebs have chosen Wycombe if given the chance? or did the club choose Wycome for him?"
I don't get the point you are trying to make. Correct me if I aw wrong but you seem to be suggesting that Eze may not have wanted to go to Wycombe I assume because he saw no way he could improve under Ainsworth's style of play. However you are saying the club were prepared to send a valuable assett to Wycombe to learn more. Does not put the club in good light does it or maybe as has been shown the club was right and maybe Eze was happy to go. |
Point I'm making is a player like Eze would be very unlikely to choose a Gareth Ainsworth Team as the place to call home for the next 2-3 seasons and the decision to go to Wycombe, even on loan, was the club's one. I've not once said it was a bad decision to send him there, it was a great one, but it was one to serve a specific purpose. Club had young, exciting, ball playing talent that has in the past been accused of laziness and being too individual. They want to get this player ready for tough, Championship Football and a club that we have good links through, specifically because of the Manager and one that plays a style that arguably demands a strong work ethic, is interested, club sends player there for a short term loan to see how they handle themselves.
The debate here should be about whether young, talented players will overlook us when planning their next career move because of how they view the club and its style of play. I suppose you could get a similar situation to Eze in that a club wants to toughen up one of its players and we become the new developer of "character" team for the big boys to go to, but I fear when trying to sign players like Eze and Chair and even Richards (permanently), it will be much harder sell based on the style of play we will end up adopting. | | | |
| Gazball on 13:29 - May 3 with 1627 views | E15Hoop |
| Gazball on 13:19 - May 3 by PhilmyRs |
Point I'm making is a player like Eze would be very unlikely to choose a Gareth Ainsworth Team as the place to call home for the next 2-3 seasons and the decision to go to Wycombe, even on loan, was the club's one. I've not once said it was a bad decision to send him there, it was a great one, but it was one to serve a specific purpose. Club had young, exciting, ball playing talent that has in the past been accused of laziness and being too individual. They want to get this player ready for tough, Championship Football and a club that we have good links through, specifically because of the Manager and one that plays a style that arguably demands a strong work ethic, is interested, club sends player there for a short term loan to see how they handle themselves.
The debate here should be about whether young, talented players will overlook us when planning their next career move because of how they view the club and its style of play. I suppose you could get a similar situation to Eze in that a club wants to toughen up one of its players and we become the new developer of "character" team for the big boys to go to, but I fear when trying to sign players like Eze and Chair and even Richards (permanently), it will be much harder sell based on the style of play we will end up adopting. |
I've been wondering over the last couple of weeks since we've been having this debate if a lot of this just isn't down to "trends" and "fashion"?
My personal feeling is - and I know that there will be a number of people who will jump on this, partly as its me saying it - that tiki taka has had its day, and that more clubs will go back to incorporating direct play into their games.
I will say no more than that, as I know I've just set a light to the blue touch paper.. | | | |
| Gazball on 13:30 - May 3 with 1616 views | Northernr |
Gonna be a long summer this lads. |  | | |
| Gazball on 13:47 - May 3 with 1503 views | THEBUSH |
For me, there is no such thing as, Gazball.
What, hes been here 8 or 9 weeks and some people have already made up their minds about him?
We are already paying off one manger, please rangers, dont make it two.
Two other teams have already been mentioned, Luton and Millwall.
Well i dont think they play lovely attractive football, but definitely its the way to go. |  | | |
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