| NHS crisis 07:34 - Jan 7 with 5072 views | SullutaCreturned |
We've been saying it on here for ages, we've discussed all the things that the BBC has now put into one story and here it is, the stats, the numbers, the reasons why the NHS is failing for all to see,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64190440 |  | | |  |
| NHS crisis on 09:24 - Jan 7 with 2641 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
After recent experiences I wouldn’t piss on the NHS if it was on fire. Which it is. Metaphorically speaking. |  |
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| NHS crisis on 11:23 - Jan 7 with 2610 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 09:24 - Jan 7 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
After recent experiences I wouldn’t piss on the NHS if it was on fire. Which it is. Metaphorically speaking. |
Also metaphorically speaking, unless we all piss on it and put the fire out then things will only get worse and then bad experiences will multiply until it collapses completely.
I'm sure nobody wants that?
Well maybe the government wants that so they can privatise but hopefully the tories will be out soon and Labour will do something useful? | | | |
| NHS crisis on 11:35 - Jan 7 with 2601 views | krunchykarrot |
| NHS crisis on 11:23 - Jan 7 by SullutaCreturned |
Also metaphorically speaking, unless we all piss on it and put the fire out then things will only get worse and then bad experiences will multiply until it collapses completely.
I'm sure nobody wants that?
Well maybe the government wants that so they can privatise but hopefully the tories will be out soon and Labour will do something useful? |
Needs to be taken out of politicians hand and given to experts to run, as for your last sentence Wales is in an absolute shambles with Drakeford so dont hold your hopes up high. |  | | |
| NHS crisis on 11:51 - Jan 7 with 2594 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 11:35 - Jan 7 by krunchykarrot |
Needs to be taken out of politicians hand and given to experts to run, as for your last sentence Wales is in an absolute shambles with Drakeford so dont hold your hopes up high. |
It does need to be taken away from the political merry go round.
I wasn't talking about Welsh labour, they are hopeless, Ideologically stuck into a routine that will (already has actually) butcher large parts of Wales and leave them destitute.
I'm hoping Starmer actually does something worthwhile. He can start by keeping promises and looking to abolish the HoL. Then he can give us more devolution and modernise the funding equation/do away with Barnett so that the Senedd cannot keep blaming Westminster and getting away with it.
Give the sened more power AND more money and then watch them squirm. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 12:06 - Jan 7 with 2588 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| NHS crisis on 11:51 - Jan 7 by SullutaCreturned |
It does need to be taken away from the political merry go round.
I wasn't talking about Welsh labour, they are hopeless, Ideologically stuck into a routine that will (already has actually) butcher large parts of Wales and leave them destitute.
I'm hoping Starmer actually does something worthwhile. He can start by keeping promises and looking to abolish the HoL. Then he can give us more devolution and modernise the funding equation/do away with Barnett so that the Senedd cannot keep blaming Westminster and getting away with it.
Give the sened more power AND more money and then watch them squirm. |
Wales is hamstrung, the Conservatives won't change the funding because it always votes Labour, Labour won't invest because there is no additional votes to be had. |  |
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| NHS crisis on 12:31 - Jan 7 with 2565 views | majorraglan |
The NHS is in crisis and in a downward spiral. What the BBC article failed to mention is that the UK population has grown by over 5m in the last 12 years, so we have a situation where we have the equivalent of 10% extra customers while investment/funding hadn’t increased correspondingly. The extra money in 2019 corresponds with the start of the pandemic, the last few years have seen a rise in expenditure but we need to remember much of that expenditure is linked to the pandemic which hasn’t gone away. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 13:03 - Jan 7 with 2551 views | builthjack |
That chart shows that since the Tories came in the NHS has been seriously underfunded year on year. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| NHS crisis on 13:59 - Jan 7 with 2528 views | controversial_jack |
| NHS crisis on 13:03 - Jan 7 by builthjack |
That chart shows that since the Tories came in the NHS has been seriously underfunded year on year. |
Spot on , it's as clear as day who is responsible for the funding, but Drakeford will still get the blame from the Tory crawlers | | | |
| NHS crisis on 14:12 - Jan 7 with 2521 views | Gwyn737 |
| NHS crisis on 13:03 - Jan 7 by builthjack |
That chart shows that since the Tories came in the NHS has been seriously underfunded year on year. |
In fairness, the article also says that Labour signed up for the same level of investment in the aftermath of the 2008 crash.
I’d like to think they wouldn’t have continued with the ridiculous level of Tory austerity. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 14:26 - Jan 7 with 2509 views | CountyJim |
That's the point the Tories are running down the NHS then someone will come up with a brilliant idea about privatisation
But we can find the money for nuclear weapons mind which will rescue us 👠|  | | |
| NHS crisis on 14:59 - Jan 7 with 2499 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 13:03 - Jan 7 by builthjack |
That chart shows that since the Tories came in the NHS has been seriously underfunded year on year. |
It doesn't reflect very well on the Libdems either. We can't forget though, a large part of the problem is mismanagement, ideological changes made that were a complete cock up and a total lck of joined up thinking by every government ever since social care was seperated from health care. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 15:41 - Jan 7 with 2483 views | DJack |
As ever half the replying posts contains posters personal hobby-horses. The NHS crisis is very serious, the discussion does not need your prejudices.
So what we do know...
A dearth of necessary funding for a number of years.
An increasing population.
An increasing ageing population.
Population lifestyle pressures.
Better but more expensive drugs and machines to help extend the life of patients.
Any more to be added?... and please put aside the usual dogma that can come with this discussion. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| NHS crisis on 16:29 - Jan 7 with 2462 views | shingle |
| NHS crisis on 13:59 - Jan 7 by controversial_jack |
Spot on , it's as clear as day who is responsible for the funding, but Drakeford will still get the blame from the Tory crawlers |
True but the people of the UK are just as much to blame for not standing up to them and being taken in by all of there propaganda after all this has been going on for 12 year now. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 17:34 - Jan 7 with 2447 views | krunchykarrot |
| NHS crisis on 13:59 - Jan 7 by controversial_jack |
Spot on , it's as clear as day who is responsible for the funding, but Drakeford will still get the blame from the Tory crawlers |
We cannot keep thowing money at the NHS, it is hopeless in any graph compared to other Health services from other countries after being mismanaged. Why dont we in Wales just copy a health service that works efficiently there are quite a few ahead of us as long as its free at the point of use. As for Tory crawlers Labour backed the funding if i remember correctly after we were left penniless, take it away from them is the way forward. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 18:34 - Jan 7 with 2430 views | BryanSwan |
| NHS crisis on 11:51 - Jan 7 by SullutaCreturned |
It does need to be taken away from the political merry go round.
I wasn't talking about Welsh labour, they are hopeless, Ideologically stuck into a routine that will (already has actually) butcher large parts of Wales and leave them destitute.
I'm hoping Starmer actually does something worthwhile. He can start by keeping promises and looking to abolish the HoL. Then he can give us more devolution and modernise the funding equation/do away with Barnett so that the Senedd cannot keep blaming Westminster and getting away with it.
Give the sened more power AND more money and then watch them squirm. |
Unfortunately i don't think Starmer is your man if you want real change or change for ordinary people. I've said from the start that 10 years ago he would've been firmly a member of the Conservatives with his ideology.
Only the other day he stated how his vision for the NHS was for the state "to work in partnership with private business".
Having had need of A&E services it pains me to see how exhausted and broken the staff our, they do a fantastic job given the circumstances , but for how much longer? | |
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| NHS crisis on 18:58 - Jan 7 with 2423 views | krunchykarrot |
I have a relative in Singleton seriously ill at present, i wont go into details but its a shitshow. Nurses are being let down by mismanagement with agency staff coming and going the NHS nurses are at the end of their tethers. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 18:59 - Jan 7 with 2423 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 18:34 - Jan 7 by BryanSwan |
Unfortunately i don't think Starmer is your man if you want real change or change for ordinary people. I've said from the start that 10 years ago he would've been firmly a member of the Conservatives with his ideology.
Only the other day he stated how his vision for the NHS was for the state "to work in partnership with private business".
Having had need of A&E services it pains me to see how exhausted and broken the staff our, they do a fantastic job given the circumstances , but for how much longer? |
There is already a lot of private involvement, take eye surgery, there is a company called SpaMedica who do thousands of eye surgeries per year for the NHS.
It may be a bit late to close that particular stable door. Now it may just come down to making the best of a bad job?
We need the joined up thinking, action to cut the vast wastage and negligence, did anyoe see the figures for pay outs for SBUHB alone in negligence cases? In the last 12 years I think over 200 million has been paid out across the whole of Welsh NHS boards. Never mind how much they pad whistle blowers to stop them going public and I know there is a large budget for negligence claims and whistleblowers. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 19:05 - Jan 7 with 2418 views | BryanSwan |
| NHS crisis on 18:59 - Jan 7 by SullutaCreturned |
There is already a lot of private involvement, take eye surgery, there is a company called SpaMedica who do thousands of eye surgeries per year for the NHS.
It may be a bit late to close that particular stable door. Now it may just come down to making the best of a bad job?
We need the joined up thinking, action to cut the vast wastage and negligence, did anyoe see the figures for pay outs for SBUHB alone in negligence cases? In the last 12 years I think over 200 million has been paid out across the whole of Welsh NHS boards. Never mind how much they pad whistle blowers to stop them going public and I know there is a large budget for negligence claims and whistleblowers. |
Why is it too late though? It is because there is no desire to provide an acceptable level of service from within public healthcare. The desire is to funnel as much money as possible from the state into private hands.
Why does the NHS continually employ agency nurses etc at more than double the cost of contracted employees?
Why do they purchase equipment at times at10x the open market rate?
Staff are abandoning the NHS in droves to work easier jobs, less stress and more pay a lot of the time. (I don't blame them either). | |
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| NHS crisis on 19:43 - Jan 7 with 2407 views | majorraglan |
| NHS crisis on 19:05 - Jan 7 by BryanSwan |
Why is it too late though? It is because there is no desire to provide an acceptable level of service from within public healthcare. The desire is to funnel as much money as possible from the state into private hands.
Why does the NHS continually employ agency nurses etc at more than double the cost of contracted employees?
Why do they purchase equipment at times at10x the open market rate?
Staff are abandoning the NHS in droves to work easier jobs, less stress and more pay a lot of the time. (I don't blame them either). |
Can’t answer the question about purchasing equipment because the NHS have a procuring arm who should be buying at huge discounts - I know medicines are cheaper here than they are across the pond. Any examples of paying 10x over the odds?
In terms of employing agency nurses, the answer is quite simple. If there are gaps in staffing on account of sickness, staff leaving, etc etc which have to be covered, if a ward can’t get one of its own team to work an extra shift or a “bank” nurse ( nurse from elsewhere in the hospital picking up an extra shift) to cover they’ve got no alternative other than to go to an agency nurse as the cover has to be in place.
If there were enough nurses to go around there wouldn’t be a need for agency nurses, but it's a case of supply and demand and there aren’t enough nurses about. You’re right about staff abandoning the NHS for aside jobs because the pressure ward nurses, and A&E nurses are under is immense. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 20:42 - Jan 7 with 2394 views | Jack123 |
Scary the way things are going, watching wales at 6 other day, and some young lad was told to take his grandfather to hospital who was having a cardiac arrest. Regardless of who is too blame, in five years time if the nhs keeps on deteriorating the way it is, then we are all ferked.
Just to add I know that's happened to a poster on here with his parent as well.. It's disgusting. |  |
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| NHS crisis on 21:04 - Jan 7 with 2380 views | BryanSwan |
| NHS crisis on 19:43 - Jan 7 by majorraglan |
Can’t answer the question about purchasing equipment because the NHS have a procuring arm who should be buying at huge discounts - I know medicines are cheaper here than they are across the pond. Any examples of paying 10x over the odds?
In terms of employing agency nurses, the answer is quite simple. If there are gaps in staffing on account of sickness, staff leaving, etc etc which have to be covered, if a ward can’t get one of its own team to work an extra shift or a “bank” nurse ( nurse from elsewhere in the hospital picking up an extra shift) to cover they’ve got no alternative other than to go to an agency nurse as the cover has to be in place.
If there were enough nurses to go around there wouldn’t be a need for agency nurses, but it's a case of supply and demand and there aren’t enough nurses about. You’re right about staff abandoning the NHS for aside jobs because the pressure ward nurses, and A&E nurses are under is immense. |
Wouldn't claim to know how procurement works on a medicinal front, but i would almost guarentee on IT equipment/anything not medicinal they would be paying a hefty mark up to some private firm. (Couldn't give and example as I'm not personally working for the NHS but have been told this which would make sense as it was the case when i worked in PS a few years back).
Surely there are enough nurses if there are some kicking about waiting for agency work? But surely the logical response to a chronic staff shortage would be to increase wages and assist putting as many people as possible through nursing training etc rather than constantly paying way over the odds for agency workers.
Speaking to a nurse not so long back they said it was pointless having the agency nurses, most were swapped in and out with someone else so often that there wasn't even time to get them up to speed before someone else was in there. | |
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| NHS crisis on 21:20 - Jan 7 with 2367 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 19:05 - Jan 7 by BryanSwan |
Why is it too late though? It is because there is no desire to provide an acceptable level of service from within public healthcare. The desire is to funnel as much money as possible from the state into private hands.
Why does the NHS continually employ agency nurses etc at more than double the cost of contracted employees?
Why do they purchase equipment at times at10x the open market rate?
Staff are abandoning the NHS in droves to work easier jobs, less stress and more pay a lot of the time. (I don't blame them either). |
It may be too ate to reverse the semi private state because of contracts signed, if it can be done it will take quite a while.
The large scale mismanagement is part of the wider problems. i have read that some trusts have paid doctors 5k per shift. Agency staff earn more money but have to do less work, it's a total mess caused by more and more short term thinking. Worse still, it's the government thats caused most of these problems by refusing decent pay rises for public sector staff whilst funneling public money into private sector pockets. They make their friends rich on money that should be paying public secotr wages. I suppose we can blame the government for all of it really seeing as they appoint the people in charge of the NHS and it's trusts, those who make stupid decisions.
In Swansea bay HB for example, we used to have a woman in charge who was LGBT, now that in itself is not an issue, my problem is that she spent thousands promoting LGBT issues when every spare penny should have been spent on patient care. She spent hundres on a massive rainbow flag that used to fly outside the main entrance.
The NHS is run by morons who were appointed by morons who themselves were appointed by the morons in government. Hell yeah, it all goes back to governments. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 23:30 - Jan 7 with 2335 views | majorraglan |
| NHS crisis on 21:04 - Jan 7 by BryanSwan |
Wouldn't claim to know how procurement works on a medicinal front, but i would almost guarentee on IT equipment/anything not medicinal they would be paying a hefty mark up to some private firm. (Couldn't give and example as I'm not personally working for the NHS but have been told this which would make sense as it was the case when i worked in PS a few years back).
Surely there are enough nurses if there are some kicking about waiting for agency work? But surely the logical response to a chronic staff shortage would be to increase wages and assist putting as many people as possible through nursing training etc rather than constantly paying way over the odds for agency workers.
Speaking to a nurse not so long back they said it was pointless having the agency nurses, most were swapped in and out with someone else so often that there wasn't even time to get them up to speed before someone else was in there. |
Computers across the public services in Wales used to be sourced through a procurement contract designed to secure discounts through large scale purchasing, it was defo still in place when I retired a few years ago.
Wages.... that’s an issue for the Government and ver the last 12 years healthcare workers (like much of the public sector) have received below inflation wage rises which erodes living standards.
In terms of training new nurses, there are approximately 20,000 nurse training places per year. Despite the fact there was a huge shortage for nurses which was only set to get worse, in 2017 the UK Government removed the NHS bursary from nursing courses which saw the number of applicants slump. This move saved the government a lot money and shifted the debt burden on to nurses, it’s the same with other medical curses such as radiography. We also have a shortage of doctors, but the government doesn’t want to increase the number of university training places and there's been speculation that's it’s deliberately act to make things worse for Labour when they win the next GE. In Wales, the WG actually pay the student nurses tuition fees and a small bursary, but there’s a requirement for nurses to work in the Welsh NHS for 2 years after qualifying.
Health boards have “grow your own” and are now offering nursing apprenticeships, but the latter take a student 7 years to graduate and the salary isn’t great. Healthcare assistants see to a lot of patients personal needs, observations, washing, cleaning, changing while nurses tend to do medications etc. The healthcare workers are on very low salaries considering what they have to do, £20k | | | |
| NHS crisis on 01:32 - Jan 8 with 2311 views | Robbie |
Needed a build of ear wax removed recently , deaf in one ear , ongoing issue I have .
Normally carried out in the past by my local clinics specialist , not any more now , got to jump through so many hoops to get this simple procedure authorised by paperwork and nonsense I went private , £60 for it to be cleaned .
I was fortunate to cover this cost , but patients stuck in ambulances , no access to A+E and the poor staff who cope with these issues need rewarding . | | | |
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