| Sala 08:49 - Dec 3 with 9289 views | Boundy |
Can they pay what they owe , it appears they’ve run out of appeal options .A lot of monies owed to various agencies and the latest is they have run out of appeals |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Sala on 15:50 - Dec 4 with 1035 views | jack247 |
| Sala on 15:42 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You have been in a comfy office too long perhaps in your flip flops?. All out door workers (including footballers and labourers) understand comfortable dry footwear is absolutely essential. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 15:43]
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Yes, but Premier League footballers don’t tend to be sent across the channel to collect them. | | | |
| Sala on 16:07 - Dec 4 with 1001 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 14:12 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Mr Sala was not on personal leave. He was getting paid to collect the tools of his trade (his boots) and tie up loose ends relating to his transfer.
Nantes in my opinion failed in their 'duty of care'. They handed the player into the "sphere of influence " of an unauthorised agent who was working for them. The Agent was probably told by Nantes to nationally "take care of things for them". It was notionally part of the service. Sala it has been reported did not have to pay for the flight. It was included in the service.
Duty of care definition.
"In law, a duty of care is a legal obligation that is imposed on an individual. Duty of care requires adherence to a standard of reasonable care while performing any acts that could foreseeably harm others".
Unauthorised agent, reckless transport agent, unqualified pilot, ageing unsuitable aeroplane. Duty of care? I do not thinks so.
This is my laymen view on things and i stand to be corrected by legal experts of course. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 14:15]
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Wow, of all the silly things ever said about this case, him being on a work trip to collect his boots is up there with the very worst of them.
What have Nantes got to do with anything? They aren’t even in the picture. They terminated the contract with Sala after he began employment elsewhere.
Let’s say you hand in your notice in December to leave Tesco in Llansamlet to work for Sainsbury’s in Cardiff Bay. You leave Tesco on a Wednesday and say your goodbyes, your employment is then terminated after you sign a contract with Sainsbury’s.
On the Friday you travel to Cardiff via Uber and crash on the way due to an unqualified driver error.
How is this Tesco’s fault? Do you think they should have transported you to Cardiff Bay on Sainsbury’s behalf?
As for “Nantes probably told the agents to take care of things”… what things? If you knew the slightest thing about this situation you would know how the flight came about. It was a three way discussion between Sala, his agent and Cardiff - no Nantes in sight, he he wasn’t their player.
Sala asked Cardiff for a better flight than the one they were offering him (BA from Paris). He then mentioned to the agent (not working for Nantes as claimed) that the flight offered by Cardiff was inconvenient and he was looking to book one himself. He said as a favour he would sort it and arranged a seat on a private jet (not an illegal thing to do). Unbeknown to them the pilot (now in jail as a result) gave his job to an under-qualified pilot.
Nantes don’t even come into the picture so it’s probably best you leave the “they probably said” at the door and learn the case before continuing.
Your layman version of this has always been a version that exists only in fairy tales and fantasy, why you bother commenting with such little accurate knowledge of the case, I don’t know. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 16:19]
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| Sala on 16:17 - Dec 4 with 997 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 15:50 - Dec 4 by jack247 |
Yes, but Premier League footballers don’t tend to be sent across the channel to collect them. |
He was not sent anywhere by anyone. He was a professional footballer. It was the end of the window, He had things to close out. Handing keys back on his flat taking the electricity and gas readings. Signing termination forms, putting stuff into storage for later collection Collecting his favourite "lucky " boots.
All important stuff all part of his profession. He did things properly and he Nantes and Cardiff expected the Agent to do things properly and make things easier or the young fellow who was in a stressful position. The Agent associated to Nantes FC may have failed in his 'duty of care' and put him at harm. |  |
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| Sala on 16:24 - Dec 4 with 981 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 16:17 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
He was not sent anywhere by anyone. He was a professional footballer. It was the end of the window, He had things to close out. Handing keys back on his flat taking the electricity and gas readings. Signing termination forms, putting stuff into storage for later collection Collecting his favourite "lucky " boots.
All important stuff all part of his profession. He did things properly and he Nantes and Cardiff expected the Agent to do things properly and make things easier or the young fellow who was in a stressful position. The Agent associated to Nantes FC may have failed in his 'duty of care' and put him at harm. |
You are making stories up in your head.
He had already signed termination papers with Nantes. This was a personal trip, time he had agreed to take with Cardiff in order to return on the Monday for training.
The Agent was working for both Cardiff and Nantes during the transfer, the second the transfer was complete then their affiliation with any club was finished, they were contractors. FIFA, the FA and CAS have concluded that this transfer was complete.
It is not illegal to arrange transport. If I order you a UBER and your driver turns up drunk, that’s not my problem and there is no liability with me in the slightest. | |
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| Sala on 16:38 - Dec 4 with 953 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Sala on 16:17 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
He was not sent anywhere by anyone. He was a professional footballer. It was the end of the window, He had things to close out. Handing keys back on his flat taking the electricity and gas readings. Signing termination forms, putting stuff into storage for later collection Collecting his favourite "lucky " boots.
All important stuff all part of his profession. He did things properly and he Nantes and Cardiff expected the Agent to do things properly and make things easier or the young fellow who was in a stressful position. The Agent associated to Nantes FC may have failed in his 'duty of care' and put him at harm. |
The agent worked for Cardiff. He worked so closely with Cardiff that his twin sons were both mysteriously awarded two and a half year contracts despite barely making a single appearance and going on to not being good enough to play in non league and the Scottish lower leagues. |  |
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| Sala on 16:41 - Dec 4 with 950 views | Catullus |
| Sala on 14:12 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Mr Sala was not on personal leave. He was getting paid to collect the tools of his trade (his boots) and tie up loose ends relating to his transfer.
Nantes in my opinion failed in their 'duty of care'. They handed the player into the "sphere of influence " of an unauthorised agent who was working for them. The Agent was probably told by Nantes to nationally "take care of things for them". It was notionally part of the service. Sala it has been reported did not have to pay for the flight. It was included in the service.
Duty of care definition.
"In law, a duty of care is a legal obligation that is imposed on an individual. Duty of care requires adherence to a standard of reasonable care while performing any acts that could foreseeably harm others".
Unauthorised agent, reckless transport agent, unqualified pilot, ageing unsuitable aeroplane. Duty of care? I do not thinks so.
This is my laymen view on things and i stand to be corrected by legal experts of course. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 14:15]
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This just shows your flawed thinking. First up he was no longer a Nantes player, they didn't arrange his transport back to "pick up his boots" nor the return flight to the UK.
You call it your Laymans opinion but the CAS has totally rejected that argument so yet again, you are wrong. To put it another way, the experts have already corrected you before you posted this. I don't think they have another avenue of appeal though I could be wrong.
While they continue to argue this, the debt is rising as Nantes are demanding interest on the overdue payments. Cardiff are getting further into debt which makes it a total nonsense decisin by Tan.
I think he'll lump all the debt onto the club, I think they'll be paying heavily for his madness. | |
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| Sala on 16:47 - Dec 4 with 946 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 16:24 - Dec 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
You are making stories up in your head.
He had already signed termination papers with Nantes. This was a personal trip, time he had agreed to take with Cardiff in order to return on the Monday for training.
The Agent was working for both Cardiff and Nantes during the transfer, the second the transfer was complete then their affiliation with any club was finished, they were contractors. FIFA, the FA and CAS have concluded that this transfer was complete.
It is not illegal to arrange transport. If I order you a UBER and your driver turns up drunk, that’s not my problem and there is no liability with me in the slightest. |
Look up "duty of care" It is a legal concept I am aware of but not an expert. It may or may not apply in this case.
If I for example have building debris to remove from my property I can give it to Joe Bloggs and pay him cash in hand.
If Joe Bloggs dumps it somewhere and paperwork shows it came from my property I could be liable. I would ague this had nothing to do with me but 100% the responsibility of the handler Bloggs and co. If the handler had no waste handling licence and was a known cowboy I will not have fulfilled my "duty of care" I will be held responsible.
But i had a receipt and paid cash. It makes no difference. I had a 'Duty of care'.
Nantes will not get off so easily in my opinion. The agent Nantes employed was being paid for services to them including logistics it seems to me. A service from introduction to physical delivery of the player to Cardiff. | |
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| Sala on 16:47 - Dec 4 with 941 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 16:38 - Dec 4 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The agent worked for Cardiff. He worked so closely with Cardiff that his twin sons were both mysteriously awarded two and a half year contracts despite barely making a single appearance and going on to not being good enough to play in non league and the Scottish lower leagues. |
I was told that their initial line of argument, after much flip flopping between various tenuous ones, was vicarious liability via the agents.
They then realised that they didn’t want anyone looking into who the agents were working for as it would shine a spotlight on their dealings with the McKays and indeed why they employed both their sons.
They ended up settling on “the Premier League didn’t accept the transfer”, which is one of the worst arguments in history in which I famously tore apart in 30 seconds on ‘another forum’.
The premier league is a competition not a governing body, they don’t have the authority to accept transfers. What they can do of course is refuse to let a player play in that competition until it meets the criteria of what is permitted - but the transfer does not become invalid.
Once they realised this they changed it to “but it was an unspoken understanding that he was being signed to play in that league, making the transfer null and void”.
It was a horrendous argument from the word go, which must have been spurred on by Tan against all legal probabilities.
The embarrassing part in all of that is, he wasn’t allowed to play in the Premier League due to an error by Cardiff in offering his loyalty bonus up front instead of structured over the length of the contract as in Premier League rules.
They tried to nullify the transfer due to their own mistake and/or incompetence. | |
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| Sala on 16:53 - Dec 4 with 937 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 16:47 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Look up "duty of care" It is a legal concept I am aware of but not an expert. It may or may not apply in this case.
If I for example have building debris to remove from my property I can give it to Joe Bloggs and pay him cash in hand.
If Joe Bloggs dumps it somewhere and paperwork shows it came from my property I could be liable. I would ague this had nothing to do with me but 100% the responsibility of the handler Bloggs and co. If the handler had no waste handling licence and was a known cowboy I will not have fulfilled my "duty of care" I will be held responsible.
But i had a receipt and paid cash. It makes no difference. I had a 'Duty of care'.
Nantes will not get off so easily in my opinion. The agent Nantes employed was being paid for services to them including logistics it seems to me. A service from introduction to physical delivery of the player to Cardiff. |
I understand duty of care.
My question is what has that got to do with Nantes? He was an employee of Cardiff on a personal trip to move house.
The agent, as you have been told, was not working for Nantes after the transfer was complete. These agents worked for both Nantes and Cardiff with the Agents brothers both playing for Cardiff as an under the table deal for their dealings with Cardiff.
They are perfectly able to book a seat on behalf of someone else just like I am able to call you an UBER. You are then in the care of that company.
Why you are doing all the mental gymnastics you can when all the information is at your fingertips im not quite sure. It’s not like you haven’t been told these things countless times already. | |
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| Sala on 17:02 - Dec 4 with 922 views | pencoedjack |
| Sala on 16:17 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
He was not sent anywhere by anyone. He was a professional footballer. It was the end of the window, He had things to close out. Handing keys back on his flat taking the electricity and gas readings. Signing termination forms, putting stuff into storage for later collection Collecting his favourite "lucky " boots.
All important stuff all part of his profession. He did things properly and he Nantes and Cardiff expected the Agent to do things properly and make things easier or the young fellow who was in a stressful position. The Agent associated to Nantes FC may have failed in his 'duty of care' and put him at harm. |
What a load of guff. |  | | |
| Sala on 17:12 - Dec 4 with 899 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 17:02 - Dec 4 by pencoedjack |
What a load of guff. |
I am now reading that in a last attempt to avoid paying, Tan took it to the Supreme Court in Switzerland and have been told they have no case and FIFA’s ruling stands.
They are now liable for the full transfer fee, the court costs of both clubs, 3 years interest plus any related costs.
Ludicrously expensive process for them.
I think they have been trying to delay in the hope they get promoted by the time the ruling came. It hasn’t worked out and they are in all sorts of trouble.
Tan trying to do a deal with Nantes and they are rightly refusing to discuss it.
I guess they are days away from a transfer embargo being placed upon them and certainly won’t be able to add to their squad in January should they have not paid by then.
This could be a free fall. | |
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| Sala on 17:15 - Dec 4 with 903 views | Catullus |
| Sala on 16:47 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Look up "duty of care" It is a legal concept I am aware of but not an expert. It may or may not apply in this case.
If I for example have building debris to remove from my property I can give it to Joe Bloggs and pay him cash in hand.
If Joe Bloggs dumps it somewhere and paperwork shows it came from my property I could be liable. I would ague this had nothing to do with me but 100% the responsibility of the handler Bloggs and co. If the handler had no waste handling licence and was a known cowboy I will not have fulfilled my "duty of care" I will be held responsible.
But i had a receipt and paid cash. It makes no difference. I had a 'Duty of care'.
Nantes will not get off so easily in my opinion. The agent Nantes employed was being paid for services to them including logistics it seems to me. A service from introduction to physical delivery of the player to Cardiff. |
What a load of nonsesne, a homeowners duty of care means they have to ensure the waste removal is done by a licensed company. As long as that is the case then the householder has no liability.
If however, you pay Joe Bloggs and he isn't licensed then you become liable. It is your duty of care to employ a suitably licensed contractor.
Not that these two situations bear any valid comparison.
Nantes ddn't employ this agent, one the sale to Cardiff was sealed it had nothing more to do with Nantes
Yet again, as with many previous posts you are making false assumptions and coming up with fairytale scenarios to try and win an argument already badly lost. The CAS has considered the evidence and for yet another time, Tan has lost the case. | |
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| Sala on 17:21 - Dec 4 with 899 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Sala on 16:47 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Look up "duty of care" It is a legal concept I am aware of but not an expert. It may or may not apply in this case.
If I for example have building debris to remove from my property I can give it to Joe Bloggs and pay him cash in hand.
If Joe Bloggs dumps it somewhere and paperwork shows it came from my property I could be liable. I would ague this had nothing to do with me but 100% the responsibility of the handler Bloggs and co. If the handler had no waste handling licence and was a known cowboy I will not have fulfilled my "duty of care" I will be held responsible.
But i had a receipt and paid cash. It makes no difference. I had a 'Duty of care'.
Nantes will not get off so easily in my opinion. The agent Nantes employed was being paid for services to them including logistics it seems to me. A service from introduction to physical delivery of the player to Cardiff. |
Both sides agreed and signed a contract. Cardiff agreed to pay Nantes X amount on X dates and Nantes agreed to release Sala’s playing registration to Cardiff city and the premier league. Nantes have upheld and completed their side of the contract. Cardiff haven’t.
That’s all this comes down to really. It’s very simple. The subsequent tragic events are completely irrelevant. | |
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| Sala on 17:27 - Dec 4 with 898 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 17:15 - Dec 4 by Catullus |
What a load of nonsesne, a homeowners duty of care means they have to ensure the waste removal is done by a licensed company. As long as that is the case then the householder has no liability.
If however, you pay Joe Bloggs and he isn't licensed then you become liable. It is your duty of care to employ a suitably licensed contractor.
Not that these two situations bear any valid comparison.
Nantes ddn't employ this agent, one the sale to Cardiff was sealed it had nothing more to do with Nantes
Yet again, as with many previous posts you are making false assumptions and coming up with fairytale scenarios to try and win an argument already badly lost. The CAS has considered the evidence and for yet another time, Tan has lost the case. |
The agent employed by Nantes was not authorised. The plane was probably not fit to fly and the pilot was not authorised.
You say correctly "If however, you pay Joe Bloggs and he isn't licensed then you become liable. It is your duty of care to employ a suitably licensed contractor".
Nantes had the duty of care to employ a suitable licensed contractor but did not. | |
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| Sala on 17:39 - Dec 4 with 891 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 17:27 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The agent employed by Nantes was not authorised. The plane was probably not fit to fly and the pilot was not authorised.
You say correctly "If however, you pay Joe Bloggs and he isn't licensed then you become liable. It is your duty of care to employ a suitably licensed contractor".
Nantes had the duty of care to employ a suitable licensed contractor but did not. |
What do you mean the agent was not authorised? Authorised to do what? Who wasn’t authorised?
What do you mean the agent employed by Nantes? He was a contractor who completed his contract. He was not employed by Nantes.
Just admit you have no clue on the details of this case and stop wasting everyone’s time. | |
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| Sala on 18:36 - Dec 4 with 845 views | Superjan |
| Sala on 15:42 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You have been in a comfy office too long perhaps in your flip flops?. All out door workers (including footballers and labourers) understand comfortable dry footwear is absolutely essential. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 15:43]
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Sir , I’m very, very rarely in a comfy office and absolutely never ever wear flips flops whilst in work . However I wouldn’t disagree for one moment with your view of outdoor workers and their need for appropriate footwear especially footballers. | | | |
| Sala on 18:45 - Dec 4 with 830 views | Superjan |
| Sala on 17:21 - Dec 4 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Both sides agreed and signed a contract. Cardiff agreed to pay Nantes X amount on X dates and Nantes agreed to release Sala’s playing registration to Cardiff city and the premier league. Nantes have upheld and completed their side of the contract. Cardiff haven’t.
That’s all this comes down to really. It’s very simple. The subsequent tragic events are completely irrelevant. |
Simply and accurately put . | | | |
| Sala on 19:45 - Dec 4 with 786 views | owainglyndwr |
Pay up or suffer the consequences |  | | |
| Sala on 19:52 - Dec 4 with 763 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Sala on 17:39 - Dec 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
What do you mean the agent was not authorised? Authorised to do what? Who wasn’t authorised?
What do you mean the agent employed by Nantes? He was a contractor who completed his contract. He was not employed by Nantes.
Just admit you have no clue on the details of this case and stop wasting everyone’s time. |
I kindly reject your suggestion. This follows your normal pattern of debate usually ending in acrimony name calling and anger. I am simply putting forward Cardiff's arguments which I have some sympathy with.
I have pointed out to you and others the "duty of care" concept as a layman observer providing an example. The 'duty of care in this deal' was clearly lamentable. | |
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| Sala on 20:01 - Dec 4 with 754 views | jack247 |
| Sala on 16:17 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
He was not sent anywhere by anyone. He was a professional footballer. It was the end of the window, He had things to close out. Handing keys back on his flat taking the electricity and gas readings. Signing termination forms, putting stuff into storage for later collection Collecting his favourite "lucky " boots.
All important stuff all part of his profession. He did things properly and he Nantes and Cardiff expected the Agent to do things properly and make things easier or the young fellow who was in a stressful position. The Agent associated to Nantes FC may have failed in his 'duty of care' and put him at harm. |
Premier league footballers don’t tend to have to do things like hand keys back or pick up boots in person. Especially when the flat and the boots are in a different country. | | | |
| Sala on 20:02 - Dec 4 with 754 views | max936 |
| Sala on 19:52 - Dec 4 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I kindly reject your suggestion. This follows your normal pattern of debate usually ending in acrimony name calling and anger. I am simply putting forward Cardiff's arguments which I have some sympathy with.
I have pointed out to you and others the "duty of care" concept as a layman observer providing an example. The 'duty of care in this deal' was clearly lamentable. |
What part of the "Courts have dismissed Cardiff's ludicrous claims and appeals" don't you get, you have some sympathy with someone not owning up and paying their dues, you have previous for that, so even though you are totally wrong "again" you are consistent. |  |
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| Sala on 20:14 - Dec 4 with 743 views | Sirjohnalot |
I know absolutely nothing about this area of law, so am not contributing to this discussion. Who knows what legal advice they’ve been given. It’s probably extremely complex, dealing with different jurisdictions and whether contracts have been complete. Quite possibly not as simple as anyone is suggesting. |  | | |
| Sala on 20:16 - Dec 4 with 740 views | pencoedjack |
| Sala on 20:02 - Dec 4 by max936 |
What part of the "Courts have dismissed Cardiff's ludicrous claims and appeals" don't you get, you have some sympathy with someone not owning up and paying their dues, you have previous for that, so even though you are totally wrong "again" you are consistent. |
He’s making himself look rather foolish. | | | |
| Sala on 20:17 - Dec 4 with 738 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sala on 20:14 - Dec 4 by Sirjohnalot |
I know absolutely nothing about this area of law, so am not contributing to this discussion. Who knows what legal advice they’ve been given. It’s probably extremely complex, dealing with different jurisdictions and whether contracts have been complete. Quite possibly not as simple as anyone is suggesting. |
It’s as simple as it gets really.
As soon as the contract is processed through the TMS (transfer matching system) and international clearance granted then the transfer is complete.
It was confirmed that this was the case prior to any legal proceedings. The result of which has always been a formality. | |
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| Sala on 20:26 - Dec 4 with 713 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Sala on 16:24 - Dec 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
You are making stories up in your head.
He had already signed termination papers with Nantes. This was a personal trip, time he had agreed to take with Cardiff in order to return on the Monday for training.
The Agent was working for both Cardiff and Nantes during the transfer, the second the transfer was complete then their affiliation with any club was finished, they were contractors. FIFA, the FA and CAS have concluded that this transfer was complete.
It is not illegal to arrange transport. If I order you a UBER and your driver turns up drunk, that’s not my problem and there is no liability with me in the slightest. |
No he isn’t. It’s the voices in his head - they tell him lots of things. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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