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I knew things are not good at grass roots level, but how scary is the picture painted in this article? By the time I got into my 20s, I knew that football would only be fun for me, so whilst staying competitive, I was determined to enjoy it. I had my moments on the pitch, mainly when defending team mates from these idiots, who still thought that the football was the most important thing in their world and could justify trying to break someone's legs.
When it got too much, I pulled out of 11 a side leagues all together. I tried the competitive 5 a side at the local Goals Centre, but that was just as bad, if not worse - the abuse the refs got even there was scary.
It is awful. Yes, they can be diabolical (they are at the top of the game, so those in the park are going to be pretty crap), but not much of a game without one is there?
When I reffed 1992-2005 I had a bottle thrown at me, head butted , sat in my dressing room with my foot against the door whilst a whole team tried to intimidate me. Jacked it in when the FA were too lenient on one particular player who wanted to kill me.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
All actual assaults should be legally prosecuted, never mind action from the FA. There's too much of a culture of keeping the problems in house, like the case of the (Preston?) player a year or two back who was in the habit of grabbing opponents' testicles. If that happened outside a football match the assailant would be on criminal charges and if convicted placed on the sexual offenders register for life. Football matches don't take place outside normal jurisdiction and shouldn't be treated as such.
The article pointed out a few times that yourgsters watch their "idols" in the EPL (and it is the same in the Championship and Leagues 1 & 2) surrounding refs and abusing them without any punishment and there lies one of the problems that is carried through to the grass roots. However, what is not mentioned are the FA and the media. There is no action taken by the FA against this consistent whining by players. It is hard to find another sport that has the same situation. The players in other sports accept it and get on with it and if not are duly penalised further. However, the media are the ones who must also take a significant amount of responsibility. They are those who continue on a day-by-day basis to criticise the officials, whether straight out with their dissecting of the game live or through the so called "pundits" who in many cases do not even know the laws of the game.
I feel sorry for anyone who tries to referee games these days at the lower levels and have to suffer because those at the top level appear to be both immune to punishment and oblivious of the damage they are causing to the game at level much lower than the League.
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Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 21:50 - Oct 15 with 3759 views
My son plays U13 football and it’s a real issue getting referees in for games. They’re normally young lads, teenagers really. Abuse from parents and coaches is pretty common. I’ve not seen anything directly that bad but have heard numerous stories from other teams. It’s just not right and it starts with professional football. They’ve got to stop allowing players to surround refs or moans at decisions. Next we’ll have to start having parents or coaches doing the officiating and we know that will probably make it worse. At U13 level, you can’t blame the players. They do it because of the coaches and parents. It’s always the same clubs too.
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Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 22:06 - Oct 15 with 3718 views
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 21:50 - Oct 15 by JamesB1979
My son plays U13 football and it’s a real issue getting referees in for games. They’re normally young lads, teenagers really. Abuse from parents and coaches is pretty common. I’ve not seen anything directly that bad but have heard numerous stories from other teams. It’s just not right and it starts with professional football. They’ve got to stop allowing players to surround refs or moans at decisions. Next we’ll have to start having parents or coaches doing the officiating and we know that will probably make it worse. At U13 level, you can’t blame the players. They do it because of the coaches and parents. It’s always the same clubs too.
Parents can be as bad. One of them squared up to my son once. My son was lippy (which I told him) but really a middle aged man squaring up to a 17 year old is a bit silly because he said he'd got an offside wrong.
In my son's league we had to appoint a fair play person to keep the parents under control. We'd get sanctioned if anyone apart from the manager spoke to the ref. Any physical threats on officials should result in players being defaulted from the league. We have to clamp down on this kind of thing.
4
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 00:40 - Oct 16 with 3493 views
It's strange when you compare rugby union to football
Rugby Union is clearly a much more physical, roughed up, tough man's game.
Some of the guys that play rugby could literally eat our footballers for breakfast, lunch and dinner !!!
And yet referees in rugby are treated with the utmost respect.
Six foot eight Collussus are confidently put in their place by the officials and if they do wrong or even considered to do wrong, they walk back forlornly to their teammates and accept the punishments.
I can't also say I have ever heard a coach complain vociferously about a poor official ever and by the law of averages, there will clearly be several.
And also the crowd, despite in general being more pissed up than your average football fans, it's rare a referee gets the bird.
So basically because everyone at the top level and below, from the managers to the players to the fans, abuses and questions officials constantly it drips down.
In fact, pundits in football question refereeing decisions often, in rugby this again is a rarity.
And as said despite Rugby being a much more brutal game, referees are much more respected !!!
We all live in the same country, yet the overriding culture for and against referees in the two sports are markedly different.
I have never understood this or indeed the reasons why.
But yes it's an inbuilt culture in football and sadly it comes with the territory for football officials !!
How can this be changed !!! I am not sure it can !!!
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 00:40 - Oct 16 by numptydumpty
It's strange when you compare rugby union to football
Rugby Union is clearly a much more physical, roughed up, tough man's game.
Some of the guys that play rugby could literally eat our footballers for breakfast, lunch and dinner !!!
And yet referees in rugby are treated with the utmost respect.
Six foot eight Collussus are confidently put in their place by the officials and if they do wrong or even considered to do wrong, they walk back forlornly to their teammates and accept the punishments.
I can't also say I have ever heard a coach complain vociferously about a poor official ever and by the law of averages, there will clearly be several.
And also the crowd, despite in general being more pissed up than your average football fans, it's rare a referee gets the bird.
So basically because everyone at the top level and below, from the managers to the players to the fans, abuses and questions officials constantly it drips down.
In fact, pundits in football question refereeing decisions often, in rugby this again is a rarity.
And as said despite Rugby being a much more brutal game, referees are much more respected !!!
We all live in the same country, yet the overriding culture for and against referees in the two sports are markedly different.
I have never understood this or indeed the reasons why.
But yes it's an inbuilt culture in football and sadly it comes with the territory for football officials !!
How can this be changed !!! I am not sure it can !!!
[Post edited 16 Oct 2022 0:45]
Oh it can mate, but it's going to take those at the top to have a backbone. The fish rots from the head down.
My sons U8 team played the same team from last week and they were just as tough as last week. At least this time the ref was neutral and gave us free kicks and a penalty in a 3-3 result.
Problem was the opponents parents kept applauding and encouraging fouls, three of their players did it all game as a result. One of the boys did a bad foul and refused to talk to the ref or his coaches and it took a few minutes to get him off the pitch. His parents did nothing to reprimand him if his really bad behaviour. Refs then have to deal with that.
As said, it all comes from the top down but there is so much money involved it’ll never improve sadly
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 14:49 - Oct 16 by Juzzie
My sons U8 team played the same team from last week and they were just as tough as last week. At least this time the ref was neutral and gave us free kicks and a penalty in a 3-3 result.
Problem was the opponents parents kept applauding and encouraging fouls, three of their players did it all game as a result. One of the boys did a bad foul and refused to talk to the ref or his coaches and it took a few minutes to get him off the pitch. His parents did nothing to reprimand him if his really bad behaviour. Refs then have to deal with that.
As said, it all comes from the top down but there is so much money involved it’ll never improve sadly
I completely agree with comments it needs to start from the top.
Straight yellows if you are not the captain moaning to the ref, if you ae not moving away from a freekick that's not yours etc.
...but all youth clubs are meant to have some form of behaviour policy for both parents and kids (and coaches). You can see the clubs that enforce this and those that don't care. As in many matters, people and youth clubs need to take a bit of personal responsibility, it's so much more enjoyable when you get a game where no parents or coaches have a go at the ref.
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 00:40 - Oct 16 by numptydumpty
It's strange when you compare rugby union to football
Rugby Union is clearly a much more physical, roughed up, tough man's game.
Some of the guys that play rugby could literally eat our footballers for breakfast, lunch and dinner !!!
And yet referees in rugby are treated with the utmost respect.
Six foot eight Collussus are confidently put in their place by the officials and if they do wrong or even considered to do wrong, they walk back forlornly to their teammates and accept the punishments.
I can't also say I have ever heard a coach complain vociferously about a poor official ever and by the law of averages, there will clearly be several.
And also the crowd, despite in general being more pissed up than your average football fans, it's rare a referee gets the bird.
So basically because everyone at the top level and below, from the managers to the players to the fans, abuses and questions officials constantly it drips down.
In fact, pundits in football question refereeing decisions often, in rugby this again is a rarity.
And as said despite Rugby being a much more brutal game, referees are much more respected !!!
We all live in the same country, yet the overriding culture for and against referees in the two sports are markedly different.
I have never understood this or indeed the reasons why.
But yes it's an inbuilt culture in football and sadly it comes with the territory for football officials !!
How can this be changed !!! I am not sure it can !!!
[Post edited 16 Oct 2022 0:45]
It's bloody hard work making 10m even at amateur level. If you lose 10m every time one of your players gobs off, you become self-disciplining very quickly.
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Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 21:16 - Oct 16 with 2941 views
The FA introduced sin bins at grass roots level but in my experience (21 years running a Sunday morning team) the referees don't use them enough. And more often than not a player who is sin binned ends up hurling abuse from the side-line for the ten minutes that he is off.
I don't like to generalise but the serious incidences of violent or threatening behaviour more often than not come from people who have clearly got personal, psychological or social issues and they are not issues which a referee can address in the arena of a Sunday morning match. i.e. the problem goes beyond grass roots football and I'm not entirely sure that sin bins etc. will cure them.
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Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 21:33 - Oct 16 with 2909 views
It's something that I think we do really well at QPR. Yeh we have plenty of gamesmanship but we show great respect to the officials. I only heard about the fines issued to players here about conduct towards officials this season.
I'm not sure if it always works in our favour but I think it's great.
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 19:29 - Oct 16 by OakR
I completely agree with comments it needs to start from the top.
Straight yellows if you are not the captain moaning to the ref, if you ae not moving away from a freekick that's not yours etc.
...but all youth clubs are meant to have some form of behaviour policy for both parents and kids (and coaches). You can see the clubs that enforce this and those that don't care. As in many matters, people and youth clubs need to take a bit of personal responsibility, it's so much more enjoyable when you get a game where no parents or coaches have a go at the ref.
The problem is that most of the parents don't actually give two shites if the club their kid plays for gets into trouble; in my experience most of them wouldn't even know those in charge and some will barely know the coach.
They treat training and matches as an opportunity for cheap childcare and some deliberately turn up late to avoid helping by running the line or being a parent liaison officer. In short, most don't actually want to help.
That aspect is very much a societal one. Everyone is entitled. These clubs are there for them and that is fine as long as someone else takes the flak. I really did not want to manage kids football, but ended up doing 4 seasons simply because no-one else could be arsed. My view was simple: my kid wanted to play, so I did what I could. Then of course you get all of them pickled because their boy never got man of the match or I left one on for longer than others.
Thankless. No, the end of season box of roses to say "thank you" didn't even come close to saying thank you...
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 21:33 - Oct 16 by CliveWilsonSaid
It's something that I think we do really well at QPR. Yeh we have plenty of gamesmanship but we show great respect to the officials. I only heard about the fines issued to players here about conduct towards officials this season.
I'm not sure if it always works in our favour but I think it's great.
As highly paid professionals they should show respect to the game and the officials. There is a lot of money in the game and there are clear procedures to be followed if an official is deemed to be incompetent. It's at grass roots where there is a small minority who seem to think that it is OK to attack or threaten referees that there is a problem. That is the societal issue.
1
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 22:17 - Oct 16 with 2840 views
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 21:45 - Oct 16 by Logman
As highly paid professionals they should show respect to the game and the officials. There is a lot of money in the game and there are clear procedures to be followed if an official is deemed to be incompetent. It's at grass roots where there is a small minority who seem to think that it is OK to attack or threaten referees that there is a problem. That is the societal issue.
Yes agreed. I think a lot of our societal issues stem from those in the public eye sending out the wrong messages and using tokens to hide their failure. I just like the fact that my football club seems to recognise this.
With kids football this sums it up really, parents living their lives through their kids and being so deluded and blinkered that their snotty brats are Stan Bowles when their more Gus Ceaser on acid FFS
What a tune though DShake - Techno Trance (Paradise is Now) 1990
FKA AcidPixie
0
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 05:12 - Oct 17 with 2647 views
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 21:45 - Oct 16 by Logman
As highly paid professionals they should show respect to the game and the officials. There is a lot of money in the game and there are clear procedures to be followed if an official is deemed to be incompetent. It's at grass roots where there is a small minority who seem to think that it is OK to attack or threaten referees that there is a problem. That is the societal issue.
If you have Klopp, Guardiola and their players screaming at the ref at every decision they don’t like, then no one should be surprised when a 12 year old does that to a 17 year old ref during a grass roots game on Sunday. If it’s acceptable at the top then it becomes acceptable throughout the game. The FA and other football bodies should do something about it but also the clubs (especially premier league) need to just conduct themselves better on the pitch. Otherwise, at grass roots, referees will continue to get abused and in some cases attacked, kids will get banned and clubs chucked out. Grass roots football is such a massive thing for kids.
2
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 09:07 - Oct 17 with 2538 views
And, in a slight variation, referees my age and experience just pick and choose the games/leagues we want to do.
Of course, as ever, bad news is highlighted, but there are many leagues, competitions, clubs, players who are absolutely fine and who are there to play football.
Surprise, surprise, its those competitions where getting officials is no problem at all.
0
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 09:20 - Oct 17 with 2522 views
I think it's similar with politicians - all we do is slag them off. but then we end up suffering when the talent pool of people who are willing to do it gets smaller and smaller as a consequence
[Post edited 17 Oct 2022 9:40]
TheGrimRanger
1
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 09:22 - Oct 17 with 2514 views
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 00:40 - Oct 16 by numptydumpty
It's strange when you compare rugby union to football
Rugby Union is clearly a much more physical, roughed up, tough man's game.
Some of the guys that play rugby could literally eat our footballers for breakfast, lunch and dinner !!!
And yet referees in rugby are treated with the utmost respect.
Six foot eight Collussus are confidently put in their place by the officials and if they do wrong or even considered to do wrong, they walk back forlornly to their teammates and accept the punishments.
I can't also say I have ever heard a coach complain vociferously about a poor official ever and by the law of averages, there will clearly be several.
And also the crowd, despite in general being more pissed up than your average football fans, it's rare a referee gets the bird.
So basically because everyone at the top level and below, from the managers to the players to the fans, abuses and questions officials constantly it drips down.
In fact, pundits in football question refereeing decisions often, in rugby this again is a rarity.
And as said despite Rugby being a much more brutal game, referees are much more respected !!!
We all live in the same country, yet the overriding culture for and against referees in the two sports are markedly different.
I have never understood this or indeed the reasons why.
But yes it's an inbuilt culture in football and sadly it comes with the territory for football officials !!
How can this be changed !!! I am not sure it can !!!
[Post edited 16 Oct 2022 0:45]
Rugby league is the same, so even the working class version of rugby can show respect to referees. They even call them 'Sir' here in Australia.
0
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 09:58 - Oct 17 with 2463 views
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 09:22 - Oct 17 by SydneyRs
Rugby league is the same, so even the working class version of rugby can show respect to referees. They even call them 'Sir' here in Australia.
I coach U13s Union as my eldest boy plays for Wasps. This season we're playing fixtures in the Herts & Middlesex league and it's mandatory all players bring a shirt and tie and have a post-match meal with the opposition.
We played Staines RFC a couple of weeks ago and their coach's only stipulation to the ref before the game was his players address the ref as "Sir" - Nathan Jones could take notes given his fevered interpretation of "respect."
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Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 10:19 - Oct 17 with 2439 views
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 09:58 - Oct 17 by GroveR
I coach U13s Union as my eldest boy plays for Wasps. This season we're playing fixtures in the Herts & Middlesex league and it's mandatory all players bring a shirt and tie and have a post-match meal with the opposition.
We played Staines RFC a couple of weeks ago and their coach's only stipulation to the ref before the game was his players address the ref as "Sir" - Nathan Jones could take notes given his fevered interpretation of "respect."
Please take these questions the right way Grove as I'm genuinely interested in the answers.
1) Are Wasps junior sides based in London even though the club play in Coventry?
2) Will the junior sides be affected if the expected administration happens?
I personally have no time for Wasps, due to the events of twenty years ago, but I had not considered how youth teams (Worcester as well) can suffer due to the failings of club ownership/management.
I hope your son continues to play & enjoys himself.
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Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 10:59 - Oct 17 with 2384 views
Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 09:20 - Oct 17 by ThGrimRanger
I think it's similar with politicians - all we do is slag them off. but then we end up suffering when the talent pool of people who are willing to do it gets smaller and smaller as a consequence
[Post edited 17 Oct 2022 9:40]
Nail on head
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Refs ARE crap, but no-one deserves this... on 11:01 - Oct 17 with 2371 views
Blaming the 'sport' is a bit of a cop out I think.
I referee 16 - 18 year olds at public schools and the behaviour is impeccable - of course its possible to play high quality, competitive football without poor behaviour.
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