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Team just need time and support .They are all young Dykes is limited but needs time to develop. Bright is as good as anyone in this league.but not good enough for premiership.Needs to find consistency to get move he so clearly wants. Chair -doing well -improving.Carrol played well.Barbet played well
Deserved a draw today.
Players need to support manager .Manager needs to try one or two new players from somewhere.
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Warburton not the problem on 09:39 - Dec 13 with 1983 views
Warburton not the problem on 09:14 - Dec 13 by Northolt_Rs
Teams know we are powder puff up front and they only need one chance to score to win the match. The Reading game being the perfect example. I don’t know what MW’s stats are since the lockdown in March but they must be pretty desperate. Still think he gets off very lightly due to all our previous troubles under these owners - he should have done so much better last season with those players....
It's papering over the cracks in a lot of ways, but I'd like to see him try to get Kelman and Dykes together up front.
I liked what I saw from Kelman in that very short recent cameo and don't want to subject him to trying to be a lone holdup man in that team under these circumstances. Think he and Dykes together might have more success.
As mentioned we need a lot more presence and threat in the opposition box. Far FAR too much faffing around with extra touches. To be fair I think they were trying to get more shots off than usual yesterday but it's a low baseline. Bright is one keeps taking extra touches - one chance in the second half where he could've hit it early but again he shifted it, did my head in.
The problem is how to get the 2 up there. Get Ball in as the holding MF player maybe instead of Cameron, go 4132. But then if you're going to keep Chair where he should be you lose Carroll. Difficult decision but yes, he's got to do something.
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Warburton not the problem on 10:26 - Dec 13 with 1914 views
If you watch the good work that Dykes does for Scotland it stems from long flighted balls being played to him on the counter, receiving midway in the opponents' half and with 4 or 5 options of midfield players or wing/full backs no more than 15 yards away from him and all looking to find space to receive the ball in. Of course Scotland have a lot more going for them in those positions but the principle is the same. Even setting the relative merits of Chair and Eze aside, the loss of Amos , Rangel (both unforeseen), Pugh (avoidable in a non Covid year) and Manning in particular is really felt in those moments.
What we seem to be doing instead is sending balls to him in that kind of position (or even deeper) but with minimal support (presumably because we need to defend so deep and in numbers to keep the ball out of our goal) or else we are trying to build with diagonals to the wings but by the time the cross does come in Dickie is outnumbered 4:1 in or around the six yard box.
Don't know how you solve that with what we have when our wingers want to travel with the ball and play one twos around the box rather than look to get crosses in early.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2020 10:33]
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Warburton not the problem on 11:34 - Dec 13 with 1821 views
If you watch Dykes's goals from last season most of them are in or around the 6 yard box, most of which where he has an adequate amount or great deal of space. We virtually never get him into positions like this. Not saying we should change our game plan to suit one player, but it's just an observation. He's clearly having a lot of adapting to do at this level and the quicker he does, obviously, the better.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2020 11:52]
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Warburton not the problem on 12:09 - Dec 13 with 1764 views
Warburton not the problem on 11:49 - Dec 13 by SK_hoops
If you watch Dykes's goals from last season most of them are in or around the 6 yard box, most of which where he has an adequate amount or great deal of space. We virtually never get him into positions like this. Not saying we should change our game plan to suit one player, but it's just an observation. He's clearly having a lot of adapting to do at this level and the quicker he does, obviously, the better.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2020 11:52]
"Not saying we should change our game plan to suit one player,"
If we needed to change the game plan to accommodate Dykes why was he bought.
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Warburton not the problem on 12:17 - Dec 13 with 1756 views
Warburton not the problem on 11:34 - Dec 13 by SouthCoastR
Thought yesterday showed what fine margins this league is, Chair's shot hits the post and bounces out while Readings goes in.
Very little between the teams other than that.
And yet, they are chasing the playoffs while we have relegation looming.
Just looking at Southampton. Manager appointed December 2018. Last season had 9-0 drubbing, their worst defeat in the Premier, were in the relegation zone in November. Finished strongly last season. Now third in the league.
I don't know if it's the right thing to get rid of Warburton but I do think we have to stop pulling the trigger every time we have a poor run. At some point we need some continuity. We're not abject. Some signs of improvement. Just not coming together across all departments at the same time. Dickie and Barbet looked pretty good yesterday. Dykes did some good flicks on. Chair was very unlucky not to score. I don't think he's lost the dressing room. Everyone apart from maybe BOS looks like they're doing their best. A little bit of confidence would transform this team, they'd gamble more, take fewer touches, shoot rather than pass. The question is, will we get that little bit of luck to get us out of this hole.
Warburton not the problem on 11:49 - Dec 13 by SK_hoops
If you watch Dykes's goals from last season most of them are in or around the 6 yard box, most of which where he has an adequate amount or great deal of space. We virtually never get him into positions like this. Not saying we should change our game plan to suit one player, but it's just an observation. He's clearly having a lot of adapting to do at this level and the quicker he does, obviously, the better.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2020 11:52]
I'd fancy myself to get half a dozen a season in that league
[Post edited 13 Dec 2020 15:18]
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Warburton not the problem on 16:44 - Dec 13 with 1507 views
Warburton not the problem on 12:17 - Dec 13 by SK_hoops
I was just clearing up that I was not implying we do that. Of course we shouldn't change the game plan!
Not saying you were quite the opposite and that is the problem. If playing Dykes requires a change to the game plan, whatever that is, then why was he brought in.
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Warburton not the problem on 18:21 - Dec 13 with 1440 views
Warburton not the problem on 14:05 - Dec 13 by nix
Just looking at Southampton. Manager appointed December 2018. Last season had 9-0 drubbing, their worst defeat in the Premier, were in the relegation zone in November. Finished strongly last season. Now third in the league.
I don't know if it's the right thing to get rid of Warburton but I do think we have to stop pulling the trigger every time we have a poor run. At some point we need some continuity. We're not abject. Some signs of improvement. Just not coming together across all departments at the same time. Dickie and Barbet looked pretty good yesterday. Dykes did some good flicks on. Chair was very unlucky not to score. I don't think he's lost the dressing room. Everyone apart from maybe BOS looks like they're doing their best. A little bit of confidence would transform this team, they'd gamble more, take fewer touches, shoot rather than pass. The question is, will we get that little bit of luck to get us out of this hole.
[Post edited 13 Dec 2020 14:16]
Post of the week.
There appears to be a lot of people around with very short memories. I'll take yesterday over any of the utter dross served up under JFH, 'it is what it is' and Holloway's Lancelot and Merlin lottery machine tactics. Dumping Warbuton now and bringing in A N Other who would inevitably want to tear up the squad yet again will be the worse decision since some plank thought it was a good idea to sign a 56 year Rio Ferdinand to paly as sweeper on 30k a week.
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Warburton not the problem on 19:29 - Dec 13 with 1349 views
I broadly agree with Stainrod’s Elbow’s analysis, In particular that Rob Dickie is not the answer to our central defence problem. Dickie is competent at attacking high forward passes and can seem solid in backs to the wall, aerial bombardments. However he is slow and this leaves Kakay/Kane short of cover when caught forward by a counter attack. He steps back rather than filling the gap as a quicker defender would do. In addition when facing attackers he often can’t turn quickly enough to be effective without the aid of a tug back. Playing alongside Barbet is not ideal as his weaknesses are not compensated by any of Barbet’s strengths. His distribution is poor at best He often underhits forward passes out of defence. However he seems to be popular as he has some of the the attributes of the sort of tall, dominant defender that we need. He hasn’t been consistently terrible and I wouldn’t write him off as he may improve in a better organised defence where his weaknesses are less exposed. At the moment he is a problem in my opinion and our recruitment in January should have this in mind.
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Warburton not the problem on 19:33 - Dec 13 with 1338 views
Warburton not the problem on 19:29 - Dec 13 by santa_margarita
I broadly agree with Stainrod’s Elbow’s analysis, In particular that Rob Dickie is not the answer to our central defence problem. Dickie is competent at attacking high forward passes and can seem solid in backs to the wall, aerial bombardments. However he is slow and this leaves Kakay/Kane short of cover when caught forward by a counter attack. He steps back rather than filling the gap as a quicker defender would do. In addition when facing attackers he often can’t turn quickly enough to be effective without the aid of a tug back. Playing alongside Barbet is not ideal as his weaknesses are not compensated by any of Barbet’s strengths. His distribution is poor at best He often underhits forward passes out of defence. However he seems to be popular as he has some of the the attributes of the sort of tall, dominant defender that we need. He hasn’t been consistently terrible and I wouldn’t write him off as he may improve in a better organised defence where his weaknesses are less exposed. At the moment he is a problem in my opinion and our recruitment in January should have this in mind.
He hadn’t been “consistently terrible” because he hasn’t been terrible at all, in fact he’s probably the least of our problems.
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Warburton not the problem on 19:39 - Dec 13 with 1326 views
didn't think there was much in the game yesterday, draw would have been a fair result but could tell our confidence was dropping in the last 10 minutes. If Chairs shot goes in I think we'd have won the game and things would look different.
Would personally see where we are after next Saturday before deciding short term on Warburton, if we lose the next 2 I think he's a goner but the team are quite capable of putting a few results together
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Warburton not the problem on 19:59 - Dec 13 with 1300 views
Warburton not the problem on 19:29 - Dec 13 by santa_margarita
I broadly agree with Stainrod’s Elbow’s analysis, In particular that Rob Dickie is not the answer to our central defence problem. Dickie is competent at attacking high forward passes and can seem solid in backs to the wall, aerial bombardments. However he is slow and this leaves Kakay/Kane short of cover when caught forward by a counter attack. He steps back rather than filling the gap as a quicker defender would do. In addition when facing attackers he often can’t turn quickly enough to be effective without the aid of a tug back. Playing alongside Barbet is not ideal as his weaknesses are not compensated by any of Barbet’s strengths. His distribution is poor at best He often underhits forward passes out of defence. However he seems to be popular as he has some of the the attributes of the sort of tall, dominant defender that we need. He hasn’t been consistently terrible and I wouldn’t write him off as he may improve in a better organised defence where his weaknesses are less exposed. At the moment he is a problem in my opinion and our recruitment in January should have this in mind.
Santa, went to the game yesterday, first time I have seen Dickie live and was super-impressed.
We know he's not the quickest but moved quick enough yesterday and his positional sense and leadership was superb.
I put Dickie well above a few recent incumbents and think we have a real find here, hope I'm right.
Just need a mobile CDM to sweep up in front of him so he's not forced to rush out like maybe yesterday's goal and leave his man unmarked.
Liked that he just about looked up and applauded fans as was gutted on full-time. He's one who deserves our full support!
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Warburton not the problem on 20:19 - Dec 13 with 1273 views
I realise that I have a minority view about Dickie but to say that he has not been terrible at all ignores his disastrous pull back against Barnsley and his weak pass against Bristol City that led to the deciding goal. My point was that despite these and other less obvious errors, he is not consistently poor in the way that, for example, Joel Lynch was. However, the defence is easy to score against and Dickie must take some of the responsibility for this. We urgently need a dominant centre back with pace and/or positional sense to help in this regard and he is not the answer in my opinion.
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Warburton not the problem on 20:23 - Dec 13 with 1271 views
I was really struck by how slow the game was, how little intensity there was in our play. I thought we were predictable and failed to really get any players beyond dykes, if we did get in a crossing position we would have one in the box if lucky.
I was also struck by how much space there was between our defenders. Reading looked better in practically every position on the pitch bar their goalie and that was their reserves.
I really want Warburton to do well but the lack of plan b is starting to really grate. Bonne coming on and playing left wing, what was the point is that, going to make us better, more likely to score.
I think we urgently need full backs and a DCM and we need to be able to switch system if the one we play is not working. Teams are adapting to play us and we are not adapting back
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Warburton not the problem on 20:42 - Dec 13 with 1249 views
Warburton not the problem on 20:19 - Dec 13 by santa_margarita
I realise that I have a minority view about Dickie but to say that he has not been terrible at all ignores his disastrous pull back against Barnsley and his weak pass against Bristol City that led to the deciding goal. My point was that despite these and other less obvious errors, he is not consistently poor in the way that, for example, Joel Lynch was. However, the defence is easy to score against and Dickie must take some of the responsibility for this. We urgently need a dominant centre back with pace and/or positional sense to help in this regard and he is not the answer in my opinion.
But he hasn’t been “terrible” has he! Yes he’s made mistakes, but show me a player who’s never made a mistake, I’m sure even Bobby Moore made a few in his time!
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Warburton not the problem on 21:40 - Dec 13 with 1196 views
The only four players any new manager would want playing in their first team. They’d likely give Carroll a chance until they realised, despite his passing ability, he slows everything down playing into the hands of clued up oppositions.
After a six year philosophy that is where we are. It’s not just Warburton that needs to go, the entire back room and upper management need to walk.
Tragic what’s happened at this club.
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Warburton not the problem on 22:15 - Dec 13 with 1121 views
Not sure what else we expected work the players we have in the squad. Even the most optimistic fans raised concerns this season. We needed almost every player to step up and play at a higher standard than they've ever done before.
I said it in another thread, but we've got a mainly League 1 squad and the results are proving so.
BOS will be gone in 4 weeks.
We're in a lot of trouble this season. Desperately need some of the team to step up their performances.
Full backs, midfield... 😔
Think Dykes needs a few games off. Would like to see Kelman given a go. I'd also like to see Bettache play a few games.
Before anyone says it....Smyth and Shodipo are not the answer 😯
Warburton not the problem on 21:56 - Dec 13 by stevec
Dieng, Dickie, Chair, BOS.
The only four players any new manager would want playing in their first team. They’d likely give Carroll a chance until they realised, despite his passing ability, he slows everything down playing into the hands of clued up oppositions.
After a six year philosophy that is where we are. It’s not just Warburton that needs to go, the entire back room and upper management need to walk.
Tragic what’s happened at this club.
Carroll has been our stand out player for three fixtures in a row now IMO.
I am surprised as anyone.
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Warburton not the problem on 22:42 - Dec 13 with 1081 views
Warburton not the problem on 21:56 - Dec 13 by stevec
Dieng, Dickie, Chair, BOS.
The only four players any new manager would want playing in their first team. They’d likely give Carroll a chance until they realised, despite his passing ability, he slows everything down playing into the hands of clued up oppositions.
After a six year philosophy that is where we are. It’s not just Warburton that needs to go, the entire back room and upper management need to walk.
Tragic what’s happened at this club.
Just reading an article on The Athletic about Arsenal: "Yet how often do Arsenal slice through an opposition defence that way? Their possession-based game has become prosaic and predictable. They play every type of pass apart from the killer one. It is too slow, too methodical and, in the worst moments, it can feel counterproductive when they have a player whose main strength is running behind opposition defences."
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Warburton not the problem on 10:10 - Dec 14 with 908 views
The other thing I noticed on Saturday is that none of our team make "selfless runs" i.e a run to create the space for the player on the ball to move in to or drag a defender out of positions to create the space our movement was not smart at all.
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