| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 13:19 - May 20 with 6944 views | boromat |
Interesting. Think we'd be in a good position in terms of home grown players, however might make it more challenging when looking to move players on for profit. Our issue would be always having relegation in the back of our minds. You couldn't really be paying the League 1 ceiling if you think there's a chance of a relegation unless you have 50% relegation salary cuts, plan your out of contract players more accurately or relegation release clauses.
Something definitely does need to be done however. Clubs being relegated to League One really would struggle to meet that cap. |  |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 13:22 - May 20 with 6939 views | AtThePeake |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 13:19 - May 20 by boromat |
Interesting. Think we'd be in a good position in terms of home grown players, however might make it more challenging when looking to move players on for profit. Our issue would be always having relegation in the back of our minds. You couldn't really be paying the League 1 ceiling if you think there's a chance of a relegation unless you have 50% relegation salary cuts, plan your out of contract players more accurately or relegation release clauses.
Something definitely does need to be done however. Clubs being relegated to League One really would struggle to meet that cap. |
I fear clubs being relegated would be given a grace period of a season or two to cut their bill, leaving them with an unfair advantage over the rest of the league - much like parachute payments. |  |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 13:44 - May 20 with 6900 views | fitzochris |
There would have to be caps for all four pro divisions or else it just increases the disparity between the Championship and League One further still. |  |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:02 - May 20 with 6864 views | AussieDale |
The problem with salary caps is monitoring them. Aussie Rules and Rugby Leaugue have had them for years in Oz and it generally works well in that it stops one team dominating. Melbourne Storm had a couple of premierships stripped from them for under the counter player payments and it seems that every year some club or other is investigated. Third party arrangements in particular seem to be an ongoing concern. | | | |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:08 - May 20 with 6845 views | boromat |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 13:22 - May 20 by AtThePeake |
I fear clubs being relegated would be given a grace period of a season or two to cut their bill, leaving them with an unfair advantage over the rest of the league - much like parachute payments. |
Yeah parachute payments can't happen for me it'd just be a ridiculous situation with a massive advantage to teams that have come down. | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:28 - May 20 with 6804 views | James1980 |
Will the EFL make sure loop holes are closed in terms additional payments via bonuses as a way to circumvent a salary cap? | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:42 - May 20 with 6776 views | judd |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:28 - May 20 by James1980 |
Will the EFL make sure loop holes are closed in terms additional payments via bonuses as a way to circumvent a salary cap? |
I expect that bonuses are counted as part of salary expenditure in statutory accounts. |  |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:47 - May 20 with 6770 views | D_Alien |
I think there's too big a gap between the proposed caps for L1 & L2
£2.5m for L1 sounds fine, working out at around £2400pw (if the squad size is 20 players), but those teams promoted from L2 would probably find themselves with a mountain to climb in order to potentially double their wage bill. It's likely that good players signing for an ambitious L2 outfit would make it a condition of promotion that their salary was maximised to the cap limit. And as has been pointed out, the gap between L1 for a team promoted to the championship might be even greater than now
I'm very much in favour of this kind of reset, just needs to be fully thought through, and rigorously enforced |  |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:00 - May 20 with 6740 views | scooby |
Dropping to 20 players with 8 homegrown will also create a wave of players looking for clubs. Football needs a reset to start working within means, this could be it! | | | |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:09 - May 20 with 6732 views | James1980 |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:42 - May 20 by judd |
I expect that bonuses are counted as part of salary expenditure in statutory accounts. |
What about if they are listed under miscellaneous payments and say for example the club pay a player's mortgage for that month direct to the mortgage provider. | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:13 - May 20 with 6721 views | judd |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:09 - May 20 by James1980 |
What about if they are listed under miscellaneous payments and say for example the club pay a player's mortgage for that month direct to the mortgage provider. |
"Miscellaneous payments" would surely be unearthed by auditors as to what they really are, and they would be subject to income tax and NI deductions.
Any payment in kind that you suggest would also be unearthed by auditors and treated as a benefit in kind, i.e.as part of a salary.
I am sure there are ways to hide off the record payments such as cash in brown envelopes, but the world is moving towards a cashless society and the ease of tracing payments made between parties is becoming much more transparent. | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:27 - May 20 with 6684 views | James1980 |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:13 - May 20 by judd |
"Miscellaneous payments" would surely be unearthed by auditors as to what they really are, and they would be subject to income tax and NI deductions.
Any payment in kind that you suggest would also be unearthed by auditors and treated as a benefit in kind, i.e.as part of a salary.
I am sure there are ways to hide off the record payments such as cash in brown envelopes, but the world is moving towards a cashless society and the ease of tracing payments made between parties is becoming much more transparent. |
Very good point hopefully they would be and any sanctions would be sufficient to stop any attempt to make additional payments. | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:29 - May 20 with 6683 views | EllDale |
When I worked in professional rugby league there were all sorts of efforts made to circumnavigate the salary cap.
We had one player's wife who was paid for being the team chiropodist when she couldn't tell a right foot from a left one. And plenty of wives were employed as "cleaners" or "matchday ambassadors".
The league got wise in the end but they were pretty thorough to be fair. Eventually included in the salary cap figures were basic pay, bonuses, pension payments and any signing on fees and for the overseas players costs were included for things like houses, cars and airfares provided as part of a contract.
One problem concerning enforcement is that it sometimes takes a couple of years to audit every clubs books thoroughly and then to impose sanctions if any wrongdoing was found.
The clubs can then be fined or have points deducted but the players and/or officials concerned can have left..
Melbourne have been mentioned but in this country Barrow won the RFL championship in 2009 but then a whistleblower (a disgruntled player) went public on illegal "under the counter" payments which had been made in cash to most of the team.
They were demoted to championship one but were never stripped of the title. | | | |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:39 - May 20 with 6662 views | James1980 |
We could order bumper amounts of herbalife products from Hendo. | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:39 - May 20 with 6663 views | judd |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:29 - May 20 by EllDale |
When I worked in professional rugby league there were all sorts of efforts made to circumnavigate the salary cap.
We had one player's wife who was paid for being the team chiropodist when she couldn't tell a right foot from a left one. And plenty of wives were employed as "cleaners" or "matchday ambassadors".
The league got wise in the end but they were pretty thorough to be fair. Eventually included in the salary cap figures were basic pay, bonuses, pension payments and any signing on fees and for the overseas players costs were included for things like houses, cars and airfares provided as part of a contract.
One problem concerning enforcement is that it sometimes takes a couple of years to audit every clubs books thoroughly and then to impose sanctions if any wrongdoing was found.
The clubs can then be fined or have points deducted but the players and/or officials concerned can have left..
Melbourne have been mentioned but in this country Barrow won the RFL championship in 2009 but then a whistleblower (a disgruntled player) went public on illegal "under the counter" payments which had been made in cash to most of the team.
They were demoted to championship one but were never stripped of the title. |
Thanks for that insight - really appreciated.
I suppose an independent regulator would have to be appointed and their auditing regime adopted and accepted from the outset by all clubs, with the penalties for transgression set clear from the outset and they carried out swiftly in the event of a breach warranting such penalties, the penalties being such that clubs would not find the potential reward worthwhile.
He says, dreamily...... | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:43 - May 20 with 6654 views | fermin |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:02 - May 20 by AussieDale |
The problem with salary caps is monitoring them. Aussie Rules and Rugby Leaugue have had them for years in Oz and it generally works well in that it stops one team dominating. Melbourne Storm had a couple of premierships stripped from them for under the counter player payments and it seems that every year some club or other is investigated. Third party arrangements in particular seem to be an ongoing concern. |
NFL has one as well as Rugby Union Premiership. I realise there is relegation from the latter but doesn't this really only work well in competitions where it is effectively a closed shop ie no relegation or promotion. Others have pointed out the problem with this elsewhere. |  | | |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:44 - May 20 with 6649 views | fermin |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:39 - May 20 by judd |
Thanks for that insight - really appreciated.
I suppose an independent regulator would have to be appointed and their auditing regime adopted and accepted from the outset by all clubs, with the penalties for transgression set clear from the outset and they carried out swiftly in the event of a breach warranting such penalties, the penalties being such that clubs would not find the potential reward worthwhile.
He says, dreamily...... |
There has been a lot of abuse of the salary cap in English Rugby Union as well and a report has just been published on it by Lord Myners. You can only assume that football clubs would be just as creative in getting round regulations without strong governance. His recommendations https://lastwordonrugby.com/2020/05/14/premiership-rugby-publish-myners-review/ :
'- Greater flexibility for a Disciplinary Panel in relation to the range, and severity, of sanctions to ensure “the punishment fits the crime”, including the availability of sanctions such as suspensions and the removal of titles
- The promotion of greater transparency, which will broaden and deepen visibility and scrutiny
- Greater accountability for the board and the executives of the constituent clubs of Premiership Rugby
- Greater accountability for the players and their agents
- Increased reporting obligations on clubs
- Stronger investigatory powers vested in the salary cap manager (SCM) function and increased resource to perform this function
- Making the regulations easier for clubs to understand, and for Premiership Rugby to administer
There was also a call to increase the sanctions that a club can receive shall they break the law, including relegation, suspension, stripping of titles and return of prize money.'
Players and agents would also have to sign up in their contracts to say they understood their remuneration and face sanctions in addition to their clubs if there were any breaches. This would include allowing access to their tax returns. Clubs could be inspected without notice. | | | |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:51 - May 20 with 6636 views | electricblue |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 14:47 - May 20 by D_Alien |
I think there's too big a gap between the proposed caps for L1 & L2
£2.5m for L1 sounds fine, working out at around £2400pw (if the squad size is 20 players), but those teams promoted from L2 would probably find themselves with a mountain to climb in order to potentially double their wage bill. It's likely that good players signing for an ambitious L2 outfit would make it a condition of promotion that their salary was maximised to the cap limit. And as has been pointed out, the gap between L1 for a team promoted to the championship might be even greater than now
I'm very much in favour of this kind of reset, just needs to be fully thought through, and rigorously enforced |
£2.5m for Lge1 is a reasonable figure but its ok coming with a salary cap for all teams but the EFL must enforce strict monitoring.
For me the only way is that will happen is that each club hand over to the auditing dept for lge1 at the EFL..
The championship, Lge1, Lge2 should have their own auditing dept and lets face it that is only 20 odd teams each month per dept..
So it cant be that hard to monitor...... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 15:53 - May 20 with 6631 views | Morden |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 13:44 - May 20 by fitzochris |
There would have to be caps for all four pro divisions or else it just increases the disparity between the Championship and League One further still. |
Particularly if lesser squad members of the top 2 divisions (not to mention the Checkatrade Under-23s) can earn more than the League One cap.
On a separate point: I understand that parachute payments are to cover a club's higher paid contracted players, but these players are to my mind no great advantage. After all, they got the club relegated. The better ones would be hoovered up by clubs in the division they just left and if the club wasn't then allowed to hire at rates above the salary cap, well then that would equalise things a lot more |  | | |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 16:54 - May 20 with 6565 views | blackdogblue |
Have read the above posts, mainly around finances, here is on to throw out there.
How the fook can you be expected to play a 46 game season with a squad of 20 players?
You will need 2 keepers minimum leaving 18 outfield players to cover 10 outfield places? That’s not 2 for each position.
11 players on the pitch & 5 subs means only 4 can be left out, injuries, suspensions, out of favour etc... left footed balance, multi skilled players like Calvin who wears number 9 but plays half a decent shift when he’s in defence would be priceless..
Heard some crap coming from a certain US President over the last few weeks but we’re the EFL pissed on their zoom meeting when some bright spark proposed this... |  |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 17:01 - May 20 with 6550 views | tony_roch975 |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 16:54 - May 20 by blackdogblue |
Have read the above posts, mainly around finances, here is on to throw out there.
How the fook can you be expected to play a 46 game season with a squad of 20 players?
You will need 2 keepers minimum leaving 18 outfield players to cover 10 outfield places? That’s not 2 for each position.
11 players on the pitch & 5 subs means only 4 can be left out, injuries, suspensions, out of favour etc... left footed balance, multi skilled players like Calvin who wears number 9 but plays half a decent shift when he’s in defence would be priceless..
Heard some crap coming from a certain US President over the last few weeks but we’re the EFL pissed on their zoom meeting when some bright spark proposed this... |
looks like 20 is the limit for senior pros so scholars/even 1st Yr pros wouldn't be counted? | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 17:16 - May 20 with 6533 views | boromat |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 16:54 - May 20 by blackdogblue |
Have read the above posts, mainly around finances, here is on to throw out there.
How the fook can you be expected to play a 46 game season with a squad of 20 players?
You will need 2 keepers minimum leaving 18 outfield players to cover 10 outfield places? That’s not 2 for each position.
11 players on the pitch & 5 subs means only 4 can be left out, injuries, suspensions, out of favour etc... left footed balance, multi skilled players like Calvin who wears number 9 but plays half a decent shift when he’s in defence would be priceless..
Heard some crap coming from a certain US President over the last few weeks but we’re the EFL pissed on their zoom meeting when some bright spark proposed this... |
Yep it's called a youth team I should imagine. Also not sure if loan signings would be included.
The 8 homegrown players could be all well past being youth teamers.
This does also open up some strange competitiveness topics as well. For example you may now see much less premier League youth teamers coming on loan to leagues one and two in preference of more lucrative deals abroad. | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 18:47 - May 20 with 6459 views | blackdogblue |
| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 17:16 - May 20 by boromat |
Yep it's called a youth team I should imagine. Also not sure if loan signings would be included.
The 8 homegrown players could be all well past being youth teamers.
This does also open up some strange competitiveness topics as well. For example you may now see much less premier League youth teamers coming on loan to leagues one and two in preference of more lucrative deals abroad. |
A “squad” is a squad. I would imagine the same rule about how many loaners you can list in a team will stay the same... 😀
Shame the shop is shut, need a 5xl strip just in case they tannoy for volunteers at half time 😀😀
Back to being serious, opens up a shed load of unanswered questions | |
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| Salary cap, 20 1st team players to include 8 homegrown? on 19:07 - May 20 with 6437 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
Meanwhile, in Gillingham, brown envelopes are being added in bulk to the online shopping order, along with pies and lard obviously. |  |
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