| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players 20:34 - Jan 14 with 11918 views | marchamjack |
Not being negative, just putting it out there for a discussion.
I think we all know why the club’s moving in this direction, but still, not sure where this leaves us heading into next season, let alone longer term.
Thoughts? |  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:28 - Jan 15 with 1808 views | LeonWasGod |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:15 - Jan 15 by jasper_T |
Dhanda signed an extension a while ago. |
That’ll teach me to listen to WoL! |  | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:44 - Jan 15 with 1773 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 20:39 - Jan 14 by longlostjack |
It’s worrying. |
looks like a gamble, it could work if Coopers can bring the best youngsters in, but we could probably do with some more experience to get a better blend, the Championship is a difficult physical League? |  | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:46 - Jan 15 with 1769 views | NWSwans |
Although our overall performance on the pitch doesn't, our table position gives us a that chance on promotion, All a big gamble from Cooper if its his choice to bring in the loanees.
If we don't go up, and I don't think we will. He and the rest of us are in for a tough year next season.
Surely hes not putting all his hopes from his first professional job on this squad making the play offs. [Post edited 15 Jan 2020 12:46]
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:46 - Jan 15 with 1767 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 22:18 - Jan 14 by Kilkennyjack |
Not really though ..
Frankly no point having an expensive Academy if we simply pull in young players from Liverpool and Chelsea instead.
I think loan players overall should be the exception.
I much prefer our own players. |
I think we will move away from an expensive Acadamy and look for young loans in the future, that seems to be the strategy? | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:50 - Jan 15 with 1753 views | AlfieMooresSon |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 20:39 - Jan 14 by longlostjack |
It’s worrying. |
On a positive, we are adding to the squad with some of the best young players in the Premier League! | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:52 - Jan 15 with 1744 views | jack247 |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:46 - Jan 15 by AlfieMooresSon |
I think we will move away from an expensive Acadamy and look for young loans in the future, that seems to be the strategy? |
It’s alright to plug a gap, but it’s a shit long term strategy. | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 13:08 - Jan 15 with 1712 views | jasper_T |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:50 - Jan 15 by AlfieMooresSon |
On a positive, we are adding to the squad with some of the best young players in the Premier League! |
Brewster's highly rated but unproven, and has had major injuries. Guehi isn't sky-highly rated at Chelsea (he's no Tomori), good but not quite a future superstar. Gallagher at least has shown he's got quality at this level.
Compared to the Derby trio last season who had each had significant senior experience in the EFL and in Dutch football prior to joining them, our acquisitions are far from guaranteed hits. May pay off for us but many of the best young players at PL academies still stutter in their first loan away from home. Dan James didn't set Shrewsbury alight, after all. | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 13:10 - Jan 15 with 1703 views | Cooperman |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:27 - Jan 15 by Dr_Winston |
That list also included Nordfelt until yesterday.
Estimated the other day that you're probably looking at a minimum of £200k per week with that lot. Maybe significantly more. If you include Ayew as well then it definitely is. Keeping Ayew and Baston for the season has probably cost us in the region of £8m.
Even at the lower figure of £200k that's more than £10m a year off the wage bill, not factoring in bonuses, national insurance etc. |
Cheers Dr.
£200k to £225k was in my sort of ball park as well. A staggering sum of money for a Championship club which is being run as a going concern. |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 14:02 - Jan 15 with 1627 views | Dr_Winston |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 13:10 - Jan 15 by Cooperman |
Cheers Dr.
£200k to £225k was in my sort of ball park as well. A staggering sum of money for a Championship club which is being run as a going concern. |
One where income has been dramatically decreasing year on year.
It's been said before, but the slashing of costs that has gone on over the last eighteen months was the only sensible approach if we still want to be a going concern in five years. Once we're back to square one (or close to it) this summer we can start looking to build properly again. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 14:53 - Jan 15 with 1568 views | TimTtam |
Signing lots of players on loan can be dangerous. Look at the fall of big-spending Derby after their loan players went back to their parent clubs. It seems like Cooper genuinely believes we can make the playoffs and be a contender for promotion. But the risk can be mitigated if we have a fallback plan (U23s players), which we do.
Lets put it this way though. If we made no signings, everyone would be critical of he club not showing ambition and not having a crack at unlikely promotion. We all know we're not in the market for permanent signings. So loan signings are good in that case.
In terms if the financials, I'm getting sick of people saying we're in financial mess. We are not. Yes the parachute payments will decrease from 30M to 15M, but our wage bill will be slashed dramatically. We will be just as profitable/unprofitable as your average Championship club. And that's assuming we sell no players for a fee. |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 15:32 - Jan 15 with 1515 views | LeonWasGod |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:46 - Jan 15 by NWSwans |
Although our overall performance on the pitch doesn't, our table position gives us a that chance on promotion, All a big gamble from Cooper if its his choice to bring in the loanees.
If we don't go up, and I don't think we will. He and the rest of us are in for a tough year next season.
Surely hes not putting all his hopes from his first professional job on this squad making the play offs. [Post edited 15 Jan 2020 12:46]
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Agreed. We've been off the pace needed for promotion ever since the end of August - only 16th in form since the start of September (last 21 games). A chance, but quite unrealistic unless we can go on a run (which hasn't looked likely).
I don't know where that would leave us next year - possibly in the same boat again with some more loans? Although it does buy people like Brandon Cooper and Garrick a bit more time to step up (prediction - the first will become a 1st team regular, the 2nd won't). | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 15:46 - Jan 15 with 1507 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 01:04 - Jan 15 by jasper_T |
We've got fewer players stuck waiting for their chances now but that doesn't mean there's no one there. The mass exodus was a season and a half ago, a lot of time for young players to adapt and develop.
For Cullen and Jack Evans it's time to either play or move on - they're at the same age Joe and DJ were when they made their breakthroughs (even allowing for Jack's missed year). We're loaning in players younger than them to make an immediate impact in our first team. They're watching current and former teammates for club and country make impressions up and down the EFL. The manager/club either has faith in you or they don't. |
I agree with what you're saying, but the three we've brought in can't be classed as "youngsters" surely? Although they are, they are clearly meant for the first team and to make a big impression. We are just lucky that they are young and Coopie knows them, otherwise we'd have no chance in signing them IMO. |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 15:52 - Jan 15 with 1502 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 10:31 - Jan 15 by JackSomething |
So loaning in players from PL clubs isn't something to criticise him for then, right?
I'm a long way from being convinced Cooper is good enough, but think we have enough other sticks to beat him with. If we have little to no money to spend and he doesn't feel any of the remaining U23 squad are good enough/ready for the first team, then I don't think he has any other option.
The fact that all his old England U17 team seem to be very keen to play for him again is pretty much his best asset at the moment. |
Exactly! I remember plenty of people on here at the start of the season saying that we failed to access the loan market last year, and we should make proper use of it this...
Then complaints start rolling in when we are beating other clubs to the signings of some of the world's top young talent. Mental.
We are still in with a chance of a playoff place. Do we actually think we will make the playoffs without making any signings?
Can you imagine if we didn't sign anyone in the window again? The same people moaning about loaning players in, would be moaning that we are fuked etc.
These signings should be creating excitement as they give us a real chance at the playoffs now.
Who knows, we may even get a DM too!! | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 15:54 - Jan 15 with 1500 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 11:37 - Jan 15 by LeonWasGod |
And he's only been here 6 months in his first senior management role. We should give him time. |
And plenty of it!
Many were fearing relegation when he started, yet still said they were behind him. But we are nowhere near relegation and they've turned on him. Doesn't make sense.
Surely if he's doing better than one expected, one should be happy? Mad. | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 15:59 - Jan 15 with 1497 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:03 - Jan 15 by Badlands |
Suggests to me he isn't able to coach a team at this level and has to bring in players desperate for game time and to show their parent clubs what they can do.
That is OK to a certain extent but I think it will prove detrimental to the club.
We had good players who have gone backwards under Cooper.
Wilmot was brought in has to play but is no better than three CBs we already had.
Surridge was no better than Borja or CBR but was given game time ahead of our player to keep another team happy and left anyway.
Kalulu, from the little we have seen is no better than Osoro or Rutledge.
Freddie Woodman is arguably no better than Nordfeldt to Mulder ... different but no better and what he was doing at the start of the season that made him stand out he's given up on ... quick reaction, accurate passing and commanding a 6 yard box.
The loanees are taking places that should have been available to our younger players.
Hopefully the new loans will prove better value than the players they will replace.
I am negative about Cooper and his acquisitions, I know that annoys some people, but it's my opinion. |
So you'd prefer to play our players and get relegated?
not saying that's a given, but the guy is trying ffs.
I don't think he has been playing players to keep their parent clubs happy at all. Wilmot didn't play for ages as Rodon was first choice.
Surridge only got the chance after Borja blanked many times.
Kalulu clearly isn't fit.
You honestly believe Woodman no better than Nordfeldt?!!! | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:00 - Jan 15 with 1494 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 12:03 - Jan 15 by Cooperman |
The problem that many still don’t realise or understand is that we are hamstrung by the wages of those players in Leon’s list. Whilst they may not be contributing on the pitch they are certainly contributing to overhead.
I for one am looking forward to a massive clean out in the summer from the point of view of reducing the overhead. Perhaps not so in terms of the players themselves because they are names that we know and have many fond memories of. However it’s a case of no pain or no gain; the king is dead and long live the king, blah blah.
This is why I’m fully behind giving Cooper the chance long term. Putting aside the fact that we cannot be changing managers several times per year, we also need to give him a fair crack at one or two transfer windows where he has reasonable freedom to work with the recruitment team and shape the squad with players that fit his mantra.
Can someone have a reasonable crack at calculating the total weekly wage of the list above? |
  ABSO FUKING LUTELY | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:03 - Jan 15 with 1490 views | Badlands |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 15:52 - Jan 15 by jackrmee |
Exactly! I remember plenty of people on here at the start of the season saying that we failed to access the loan market last year, and we should make proper use of it this...
Then complaints start rolling in when we are beating other clubs to the signings of some of the world's top young talent. Mental.
We are still in with a chance of a playoff place. Do we actually think we will make the playoffs without making any signings?
Can you imagine if we didn't sign anyone in the window again? The same people moaning about loaning players in, would be moaning that we are fuked etc.
These signings should be creating excitement as they give us a real chance at the playoffs now.
Who knows, we may even get a DM too!! |
But don't you think the loans have been very hit and miss and are in positions they weren't really needed?
Surridge as CF was the right position but he hardly raised the pulses and was less effective than Borja.
Brewster may work ... we don't know.
Hopefully this lad from Chelsea will provide a player in a position were we do need stregthening, otherwise he's just another midfielder to add to the mix.
There will come a point where there aren't any more ex-Under 17s for Cooper to bring in.
As Ayew has shown, an experienced player can make a huge difference to the team and I would have liked to have seen an older and more experienced plater coming into the midfield even if it cost th same as Nordfeldt released. |  |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:04 - Jan 15 with 1489 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 13:08 - Jan 15 by jasper_T |
Brewster's highly rated but unproven, and has had major injuries. Guehi isn't sky-highly rated at Chelsea (he's no Tomori), good but not quite a future superstar. Gallagher at least has shown he's got quality at this level.
Compared to the Derby trio last season who had each had significant senior experience in the EFL and in Dutch football prior to joining them, our acquisitions are far from guaranteed hits. May pay off for us but many of the best young players at PL academies still stutter in their first loan away from home. Dan James didn't set Shrewsbury alight, after all. |
Lampard and Leon were "far from guaranteed hits" when they came to us too. | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:10 - Jan 15 with 1482 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:03 - Jan 15 by Badlands |
But don't you think the loans have been very hit and miss and are in positions they weren't really needed?
Surridge as CF was the right position but he hardly raised the pulses and was less effective than Borja.
Brewster may work ... we don't know.
Hopefully this lad from Chelsea will provide a player in a position were we do need stregthening, otherwise he's just another midfielder to add to the mix.
There will come a point where there aren't any more ex-Under 17s for Cooper to bring in.
As Ayew has shown, an experienced player can make a huge difference to the team and I would have liked to have seen an older and more experienced plater coming into the midfield even if it cost th same as Nordfeldt released. |
Yeah I agree they've been hit and miss, but that's how it goes with all signings. Wouldn't it have been worse if we had signed them permanently?
Hopefully Scott can do his job and find some real cheap permanent signings with experience, but until we get rid of the dead wood, we can't buy anyone.
I agree we need experience, but we need experience who also feels committed to our club. How can we do that with no money? | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:12 - Jan 15 with 1476 views | jasper_T |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 15:46 - Jan 15 by jackrmee |
I agree with what you're saying, but the three we've brought in can't be classed as "youngsters" surely? Although they are, they are clearly meant for the first team and to make a big impression. We are just lucky that they are young and Coopie knows them, otherwise we'd have no chance in signing them IMO. |
How do you not consider them youngsters? Guehi especially, bet few here had even heard of him before he signed. 19 and with a couple of cup appearances to his name. He's no more established or experienced than some in our u23s (Brandon Cooper has more senior minutes I'm pretty sure, and against higher level opposition than Grimsby).
Doesn't matter what they're "meant for". It's what they are.
No chance of signing them, give over. You realise Gallagher's been at Charlton, right? We signed a more established young player on loan last season in CCV. Little old Swansea should be so gratefully these Chelsea boys have deigned lend us a hand though, innit. [Post edited 15 Jan 2020 16:45]
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:44 - Jan 15 with 1447 views | Bluebird |
I'm trying to think what championship team had loads of loan signings a few years ago?
I cant remember who it was but maybe Watford? If so it didn't work out to bad for them. | | | |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 17:05 - Jan 15 with 1422 views | Cooperman |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 14:02 - Jan 15 by Dr_Winston |
One where income has been dramatically decreasing year on year.
It's been said before, but the slashing of costs that has gone on over the last eighteen months was the only sensible approach if we still want to be a going concern in five years. Once we're back to square one (or close to it) this summer we can start looking to build properly again. |
Correct. I think many had the perception that pressing the reset button was like turning a light off. Instead it’s going to be a 24 month programme at the very least. | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 17:20 - Jan 15 with 1412 views | Dr_Winston |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 17:05 - Jan 15 by Cooperman |
Correct. I think many had the perception that pressing the reset button was like turning a light off. Instead it’s going to be a 24 month programme at the very least. |
The alternative in the absence of a Peter Coates type was to try and maintain spending in the hope that we could bounce straight back up. Then you run the very real risk of ending up a Bolton/Sunderland/Pompey/Blackpoolesque basket case. No thanks. If people want shot of the Americans, we'd be a much more saleable asset after doing what we've done.
It's an approach a lot of people found frustrating after years of free spending, others still will never believe didn't go hand in hand with massive asset stripping no matter what the accounts say, and won't do much for retaining the casual support, but it was the only sensible course of action IMO. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 17:30 - Jan 15 with 1396 views | jackrmee |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 16:12 - Jan 15 by jasper_T |
How do you not consider them youngsters? Guehi especially, bet few here had even heard of him before he signed. 19 and with a couple of cup appearances to his name. He's no more established or experienced than some in our u23s (Brandon Cooper has more senior minutes I'm pretty sure, and against higher level opposition than Grimsby).
Doesn't matter what they're "meant for". It's what they are.
No chance of signing them, give over. You realise Gallagher's been at Charlton, right? We signed a more established young player on loan last season in CCV. Little old Swansea should be so gratefully these Chelsea boys have deigned lend us a hand though, innit. [Post edited 15 Jan 2020 16:45]
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Ok, yeah true, we would have a chance of signing them.
But are you really saying that Guehi is no better than what we have? You don't think that these signing are going to improve our first team and give us a better chance of reaching the playoffs than without them? | |
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| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 17:32 - Jan 15 with 1391 views | Cooperman |
| Squad of loanees and 14 out of contract players on 17:20 - Jan 15 by Dr_Winston |
The alternative in the absence of a Peter Coates type was to try and maintain spending in the hope that we could bounce straight back up. Then you run the very real risk of ending up a Bolton/Sunderland/Pompey/Blackpoolesque basket case. No thanks. If people want shot of the Americans, we'd be a much more saleable asset after doing what we've done.
It's an approach a lot of people found frustrating after years of free spending, others still will never believe didn't go hand in hand with massive asset stripping no matter what the accounts say, and won't do much for retaining the casual support, but it was the only sensible course of action IMO. |
I can’t argue against any of that. | |
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