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In answer to the OP original post, Boris was clearly well advised to avoid the bullying style of Andrew Neil, he did not need to be humiliated like the others were. Nothing against robust questioning to hold people to account but Neils style was to not allow anyone to express their own views across a range of issues but be made to squirm over a very narrow and specific issue the Neil wanted to embarrass them over. (Fair play to Neil though on the BBC through the night, much fairer and open).
Jon Ashworth was totally correct what he said and was leaked, despite his feeble attempts to say he was joking. Labour totally neglected the 70%+ seats that voted leave, eg Grimsby, Stoke etc and the election was always gong to be payback time there.
Corbyn and his rag bag Momentum radical socialists were living in a bubble, manufacturing cheering crowds of brainwashed misguided supporters to look as if he had mass appeal when in effect everyday normally loyal Labour supporters were horrified by his past, anti British viewponts, deliberate attempts to prevent Brexit and concerns over the economy with his ludicrous promises which would have bankrupt the country within months.
When places such as Leigh, Wakefield, Blyth, Workington, Darlington, Grimsby, Stoke etc go Conservative you know the country does not want radical socialism and freebies for the scroungers but wants a decent economy, controlled immigration and law and order.
The ridiculous lies about the NHS came home to roost - Corbyns insistence it was 'for sale' was pathetic , as was the attempt to try to use the document about possible future trade talks with USA as 'evidence', which it clearly was not. Same with the woman putting her son on hospital floor to take a photo of him - we all know the NHS is under pressure, but as the lady in question stated, the child got excellent treatment from doctors that night. The problem is 10 million more people in UK since 2010 puts a strain on the public services and this is the real reason , not underfunding.
Anyway, onwards and upwards, Liebour totally exposed as out of touch revolutionary socialists when UK is screaming out for middle ground sensible leadership.
Strange how lots of blue collar workers now vote Tory and middle class graduate Guardian reader remainers now vote Labour - maybe the class was is over eh ? , working class no longer exists in this modern post manufacturing society ?
Also well done Colin Lambert ! His Brexit votes helped turn Heywood / Castleton Middleton blue, who would have thought it ?
Go Boris !!!, oh what a beautiful morning, blue skies everywhere lol !!
2
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:59 - Dec 13 with 1797 views
The current crop of hard right tories are certainly not in the centre ground. Talking of brainwashing, I give you the right wing media in this country.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:59 - Dec 13 by James1980
The current crop of hard right tories are certainly not in the centre ground. Talking of brainwashing, I give you the right wing media in this country.
Every day at the paper shop I looked at the headlines of the tabloids, all attacking labour incessantly, the constant anti Semitic agenda , the urge to get Brexit done all made this very difficult for Labour. The BBC helping to doctor its news output to favour the Tories was outrageous . I’ve lived through tough times when the Tories had big majorities, and will have to again. It’s young people, in poorer areas I feel for , their parents have voted to take away their future
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:16 - Dec 13 by rochdaleriddler
Every day at the paper shop I looked at the headlines of the tabloids, all attacking labour incessantly, the constant anti Semitic agenda , the urge to get Brexit done all made this very difficult for Labour. The BBC helping to doctor its news output to favour the Tories was outrageous . I’ve lived through tough times when the Tories had big majorities, and will have to again. It’s young people, in poorer areas I feel for , their parents have voted to take away their future
Perhaps, just for once, you might give those who exercised their democratic right the credit of having at least as much insight into what was best for their future than you do? It's precisely the belittling of people's good common sense that turned the Brexit vote the way it did and also produced last night's result
If those on the left fail to learn this lesson, you're doomed to be relegated to the sidelines of history
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:48 - Dec 13 by TheBeast666
In answer to the OP original post, Boris was clearly well advised to avoid the bullying style of Andrew Neil, he did not need to be humiliated like the others were. Nothing against robust questioning to hold people to account but Neils style was to not allow anyone to express their own views across a range of issues but be made to squirm over a very narrow and specific issue the Neil wanted to embarrass them over. (Fair play to Neil though on the BBC through the night, much fairer and open).
Jon Ashworth was totally correct what he said and was leaked, despite his feeble attempts to say he was joking. Labour totally neglected the 70%+ seats that voted leave, eg Grimsby, Stoke etc and the election was always gong to be payback time there.
Corbyn and his rag bag Momentum radical socialists were living in a bubble, manufacturing cheering crowds of brainwashed misguided supporters to look as if he had mass appeal when in effect everyday normally loyal Labour supporters were horrified by his past, anti British viewponts, deliberate attempts to prevent Brexit and concerns over the economy with his ludicrous promises which would have bankrupt the country within months.
When places such as Leigh, Wakefield, Blyth, Workington, Darlington, Grimsby, Stoke etc go Conservative you know the country does not want radical socialism and freebies for the scroungers but wants a decent economy, controlled immigration and law and order.
The ridiculous lies about the NHS came home to roost - Corbyns insistence it was 'for sale' was pathetic , as was the attempt to try to use the document about possible future trade talks with USA as 'evidence', which it clearly was not. Same with the woman putting her son on hospital floor to take a photo of him - we all know the NHS is under pressure, but as the lady in question stated, the child got excellent treatment from doctors that night. The problem is 10 million more people in UK since 2010 puts a strain on the public services and this is the real reason , not underfunding.
Anyway, onwards and upwards, Liebour totally exposed as out of touch revolutionary socialists when UK is screaming out for middle ground sensible leadership.
Strange how lots of blue collar workers now vote Tory and middle class graduate Guardian reader remainers now vote Labour - maybe the class was is over eh ? , working class no longer exists in this modern post manufacturing society ?
Also well done Colin Lambert ! His Brexit votes helped turn Heywood / Castleton Middleton blue, who would have thought it ?
Go Boris !!!, oh what a beautiful morning, blue skies everywhere lol !!
some honesty and good questions here - he was well-advised to avoid Neil and will justify future leaders declining scrutiny. Labour since Kinnock has neglected their working class heartlands. Under Corbyn Labour has a left-wing ideology; you have a right-wing one and believe Boris shares it. As part of his fudging, he's been desperate to show an entirely different (liberal) face so if that's what he delivers, people who share your ideology may feel betrayed. The class war question is central - certainly the destruction of mass unionised industries has destroyed the loyalty which used to be at the core of working class communities but have all the powerless sellers of their manual labour disappeared? The best bit is your counter-factual weather report - if you live in Rochdale you'd know it's grey & miserable here!!
At the rate Labour is imploding they’ll soon be able to have their annual conference in a room above a pub in Islington while their merry band of Momentumites sing “oh Jeremy Corbyn” from the downstairs snug. Total disaster, totally predictable.
1
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:52 - Dec 13 with 1691 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:30 - Dec 13 by tony_roch975
some honesty and good questions here - he was well-advised to avoid Neil and will justify future leaders declining scrutiny. Labour since Kinnock has neglected their working class heartlands. Under Corbyn Labour has a left-wing ideology; you have a right-wing one and believe Boris shares it. As part of his fudging, he's been desperate to show an entirely different (liberal) face so if that's what he delivers, people who share your ideology may feel betrayed. The class war question is central - certainly the destruction of mass unionised industries has destroyed the loyalty which used to be at the core of working class communities but have all the powerless sellers of their manual labour disappeared? The best bit is your counter-factual weather report - if you live in Rochdale you'd know it's grey & miserable here!!
If Corbyn had given northern MP's a free vote on Brexit earlier in the year it would have been boxed off and probably Labour would have won the next election, or at least won a coalition government but it was a grave error to ignore the democratic vote by eventually taking a neutral stance when so many core voters voted leave. Probably the hand of McDonald, an arch remainer, was forcing Corbyns hand there.
Old working class ideas no longer work these days, society has moved on. Many manual workers earn significantly more than white collar workers, self-employed people from tough estates can find more in common with Conservative policies than Labour ones, particularly re tax and benefits. Labour needs to get back to representing ordinary people who work hard and want to be rewarded if they will ever come back from this beating, but as long as the membership is full of revolutionary radical socialist idealists a million miles from reality this will not happen any day soon. That is why the Tories have done so well in northern industrial heartlands - people no longer identify with what Labour has become: a socialist Marxist nightmare.
Oh, btw, I voted in Wardle Library yesterday, and have just returned from getting drenched on long dog walk at Tandle Hills, its just that the world seems a brighter place today despite the weather lol.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:25 - Dec 13 by D_Alien
Perhaps, just for once, you might give those who exercised their democratic right the credit of having at least as much insight into what was best for their future than you do? It's precisely the belittling of people's good common sense that turned the Brexit vote the way it did and also produced last night's result
If those on the left fail to learn this lesson, you're doomed to be relegated to the sidelines of history
Brexit will be bad for the north, and agricultural areas. People have voted for a slogan, and Brexit won’t be done for years. Do you think it’s good that a handful of tax avoiding non Dom billionaires dictate what people consume as news? The state broadcaster is corrupted, I trust it no more than Russian news , that report has been held back, possibly never to be seen. I’m not belittling anybody, but if you only consume garbage, you are not going to get a balanced view. If getting elected means doing a Blair, I’d rather not have a labour government. What’s the point?
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 12:01 - Dec 13 by rochdaleriddler
Brexit will be bad for the north, and agricultural areas. People have voted for a slogan, and Brexit won’t be done for years. Do you think it’s good that a handful of tax avoiding non Dom billionaires dictate what people consume as news? The state broadcaster is corrupted, I trust it no more than Russian news , that report has been held back, possibly never to be seen. I’m not belittling anybody, but if you only consume garbage, you are not going to get a balanced view. If getting elected means doing a Blair, I’d rather not have a labour government. What’s the point?
That's a good question!
But my point is simply this: if you yourself think you can 'see through' the media garbage, what on earth makes you think other voters couldn't?
My contention is they can, or at least the vast majority can, and this ties in with my earlier point about the media scrum throughout the election campaign, which in the end imo had almost zero effect on where people decided to put their X
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 12:38 - Dec 13 by D_Alien
That's a good question!
But my point is simply this: if you yourself think you can 'see through' the media garbage, what on earth makes you think other voters couldn't?
My contention is they can, or at least the vast majority can, and this ties in with my earlier point about the media scrum throughout the election campaign, which in the end imo had almost zero effect on where people decided to put their X
I see you didn’t answer about press ownership, if their musings have no effect, why own them? . The Sun is aimed at a reading age of 10, so I am not sure their readers are that bright. I try to get my news from a variety of sources, many don’t so I’m not sure how they come to a reasoned opinion. You seriously underestimate the power of the media
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:30 - Dec 13 by tony_roch975
some honesty and good questions here - he was well-advised to avoid Neil and will justify future leaders declining scrutiny. Labour since Kinnock has neglected their working class heartlands. Under Corbyn Labour has a left-wing ideology; you have a right-wing one and believe Boris shares it. As part of his fudging, he's been desperate to show an entirely different (liberal) face so if that's what he delivers, people who share your ideology may feel betrayed. The class war question is central - certainly the destruction of mass unionised industries has destroyed the loyalty which used to be at the core of working class communities but have all the powerless sellers of their manual labour disappeared? The best bit is your counter-factual weather report - if you live in Rochdale you'd know it's grey & miserable here!!
He didn’t just avoid Neil though, he avoided Morgan , Etchingham , Vine , channel 4 et al, preferring the selfie with Schofield and the sanctuary of the fridge. He is a coward
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:05 - Dec 13 by rochdaleriddler
I see you didn’t answer about press ownership, if their musings have no effect, why own them? . The Sun is aimed at a reading age of 10, so I am not sure their readers are that bright. I try to get my news from a variety of sources, many don’t so I’m not sure how they come to a reasoned opinion. You seriously underestimate the power of the media
Get Goebells on the phone he'll explain it
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:05 - Dec 13 by rochdaleriddler
I see you didn’t answer about press ownership, if their musings have no effect, why own them? . The Sun is aimed at a reading age of 10, so I am not sure their readers are that bright. I try to get my news from a variety of sources, many don’t so I’m not sure how they come to a reasoned opinion. You seriously underestimate the power of the media
I think the Sun’s was less than 10 the last time I checked. 8 or 9 I think. But then some of the more “trustworthy” rags were only high teens.
The average reading age of the UK is actually only 9. Which is a sad indictment of this country’s literacy levels...
So, the Sun is written for the average person. It’s still full of shite like.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:33 - Dec 13 with 1458 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:05 - Dec 13 by rochdaleriddler
I see you didn’t answer about press ownership, if their musings have no effect, why own them? . The Sun is aimed at a reading age of 10, so I am not sure their readers are that bright. I try to get my news from a variety of sources, many don’t so I’m not sure how they come to a reasoned opinion. You seriously underestimate the power of the media
I haven't bothered to answer since if press owners were involved in some sort of plot to keep the Tories in power, how come the Labour Party ever got to win an election? It's just nonsense, and gaining the votes of a wide range of people is what results in one party winning an election, just as Labour appealed to a much wider range of people in the late 90s/2000s
As the Labour Party is currently being led, it has zero chance of ever winning an election. It, and you, are fighting the battles of yesteryear whilst the world moves on. When even those with "a reading age of 10" can see that, maybe it's time to start asking yourself some questions rather than trying to blame everyone else
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:25 - Dec 13 by D_Alien
Perhaps, just for once, you might give those who exercised their democratic right the credit of having at least as much insight into what was best for their future than you do? It's precisely the belittling of people's good common sense that turned the Brexit vote the way it did and also produced last night's result
If those on the left fail to learn this lesson, you're doomed to be relegated to the sidelines of history
I have no doubt that people like yourself have the wisdom to vote who you believe is best for this country, and I respect that fully. But I genuinely think there is a staggering amount of people in this country who are ever so manipulated by the media. The amount of conversations I’ve seen (either had myself or seen in person/on the news) that follow the lines of - ‘I’d never vote for Jeremy Corbyn.’ ‘Why?’ ‘Well he’s just rubbish.’ ‘Why though?’ ‘Well he just is.’
The headlines of pretty much every single newspaper for the past few weeks now have been designed to destroy Corbyn and there’s no doubt that it worked among some people who perhaps aren’t as well educated as you.
1
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:50 - Dec 13 with 1427 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:16 - Dec 13 by rochdaleriddler
Every day at the paper shop I looked at the headlines of the tabloids, all attacking labour incessantly, the constant anti Semitic agenda , the urge to get Brexit done all made this very difficult for Labour. The BBC helping to doctor its news output to favour the Tories was outrageous . I’ve lived through tough times when the Tories had big majorities, and will have to again. It’s young people, in poorer areas I feel for , their parents have voted to take away their future
‘It’s young people, in poorer areas I feel for , their parents have voted to take away their future.’
I’m just holding on to the fact that another 5 years under a Tory government mean the current pensioners will be long gone by the next election, and my generation will be able to be heard.
1
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 14:05 - Dec 13 with 1384 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:45 - Dec 13 by Shun
I have no doubt that people like yourself have the wisdom to vote who you believe is best for this country, and I respect that fully. But I genuinely think there is a staggering amount of people in this country who are ever so manipulated by the media. The amount of conversations I’ve seen (either had myself or seen in person/on the news) that follow the lines of - ‘I’d never vote for Jeremy Corbyn.’ ‘Why?’ ‘Well he’s just rubbish.’ ‘Why though?’ ‘Well he just is.’
The headlines of pretty much every single newspaper for the past few weeks now have been designed to destroy Corbyn and there’s no doubt that it worked among some people who perhaps aren’t as well educated as you.
I understand what you're saying, but that's our democracy, and the alternative is to seek some kind of rule by an authoritarian elite
What i'd say is that irrespective of education, people can sense when an individual or party is putting forward a programme that has no chance of working in the real world, and that's what's now emerging in interviews with voters across the country - they just found Corbyn and Corbynism unrelatable. No, not how he's portrayed in the media, but by what he's been saying and doing himself throughout his career
Saying he's against anti-semitism for instance, whilst letting it run rife in his party, to the extent of his own MPs turning against him... was that media manipulation too? Destroyed by the media? No, he destroyed himself
Well Boris you have got what you always wanted, but what are you going to do with it. The ERG that got you elected will not fancy the “one nation Tory” crap. You now have more right wing MP’s than for many years, but you have inherited plenty of MP’s that have been roughed up by austerity. Think the tax cuts for the top earners will struggle to see the light of day for a while. As for Brexit who knows. Your decision to back leave was made with your own career path in mind. You could probably say fcuk the ERG now and aim to be slightly more aligned to the EU, which busines exporters would like. But then again you said “ fcuk business” previously. One thing is for sure you are going to have to disappoint some who have voted for you. Your church is now to broad to please all of them all of the time. My guess is you will do what ever you or Dominic Cummings want. I do think you will remain tolerate of immigration as it’s in your DNA and you are a realist about lack of Labour come 6 months time. But other than that you remain a conundrum to me. By the way I still wouldn’t trust you with a box of cakes.
2
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 14:17 - Dec 13 with 1361 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:50 - Dec 13 by Shun
‘It’s young people, in poorer areas I feel for , their parents have voted to take away their future.’
I’m just holding on to the fact that another 5 years under a Tory government mean the current pensioners will be long gone by the next election, and my generation will be able to be heard.
Typical labour response, this is my why labour will never be in power again.
Why dont you look at why labour have lost 7 out of the 10 general elections instead of wishing old people dead ( who are somebobies mum dad granddad grandma etc) to further your political party gain you sick tvvat.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 14:17 - Dec 13 by mightydale
Typical labour response, this is my why labour will never be in power again.
Why dont you look at why labour have lost 7 out of the 10 general elections instead of wishing old people dead ( who are somebobies mum dad granddad grandma etc) to further your political party gain you sick tvvat.
Riddler said he wanted old Tories to commit suicide.
0
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 14:29 - Dec 13 with 1338 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 13:33 - Dec 13 by D_Alien
I haven't bothered to answer since if press owners were involved in some sort of plot to keep the Tories in power, how come the Labour Party ever got to win an election? It's just nonsense, and gaining the votes of a wide range of people is what results in one party winning an election, just as Labour appealed to a much wider range of people in the late 90s/2000s
As the Labour Party is currently being led, it has zero chance of ever winning an election. It, and you, are fighting the battles of yesteryear whilst the world moves on. When even those with "a reading age of 10" can see that, maybe it's time to start asking yourself some questions rather than trying to blame everyone else
Blair was Thatchers legacy, that’s why he wasn’t attacked, he didn’t pose any threat. It isn’t a battle of yesteryear to believe that concentration of power and money in the hands of an elite few is wrong and needs challenging
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 14:05 - Dec 13 by D_Alien
I understand what you're saying, but that's our democracy, and the alternative is to seek some kind of rule by an authoritarian elite
What i'd say is that irrespective of education, people can sense when an individual or party is putting forward a programme that has no chance of working in the real world, and that's what's now emerging in interviews with voters across the country - they just found Corbyn and Corbynism unrelatable. No, not how he's portrayed in the media, but by what he's been saying and doing himself throughout his career
Saying he's against anti-semitism for instance, whilst letting it run rife in his party, to the extent of his own MPs turning against him... was that media manipulation too? Destroyed by the media? No, he destroyed himself
There is more anti semitism in the Tory party, not that you would know from media coverage, and the chief Rabbi
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