| Police presence? 16:21 - Dec 29 with 19912 views | CanaDale |
Where exactly were the police after the second goal, flares and missiles being tossed between fans, plastic wannabe hard “men” from both fans, not a pubic hair between them, but someone could have been seriously injured, tinpot. [Post edited 29 Dec 2018 16:25]
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| Police presence? on 20:15 - Dec 29 with 3665 views | D_Alien |
| Police presence? on 20:07 - Dec 29 by 442Dale |
Hopefully this thread doesn’t go off-track as there are some serious questions that need answers and nobody should have to witness what went on today. Those answers need to be forthcoming to ensure that supporters are fully aware of what went wrong and what will be done about it. |
We got turned over by a side with talented players and managed by someone who has them fully motivated. It happens, it doesn't mean there are any more serious questions than there were after our two consecutive victories
Those who keep making remarks (not you) about issues in the boardroom should be more explicit. When i was concerned about an issue with a particular director i put it in writing to him. Have others done the same? |  |
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| Police presence? on 20:19 - Dec 29 with 3635 views | smaclad1 |
I think we were caught out by numbers attending due to the upturn in Bradford's form outing about 500 on their attendance.
Is it right that we sell soft drinks in bottles? If so we're handing over missiles. After the first brief flurry of exchanges between the stands a number of the Rochdale yoof headed off and returned shortly after - presumably they were filling bottles with water?
What instructions are given to the stewards? Do these instructions vary between the stands because the approach adopted by stewards in the Wilbutts appears far less robust than in the Pearl Street.
I've never been in the Wilbutts stand, but is it possible to section of areas below the stand - and, if so, can we section off areas of the stand to aid control? |  | | |
| Police presence? on 20:20 - Dec 29 with 3621 views | 442Dale |
| Police presence? on 20:11 - Dec 29 by rochdaleriddler |
Many threads go off track due to a desire to be ‘witty’ |
Yes. So let’s all agree that this one won’t.
This needs sorting and as fans we have our own roles to play using forums such as this/emails/social media - places we know are read by those who can effect positive change by acting on the feedback. For that reason alone (and I’m always one who’d agree with a poster’s right to go ‘off-topic’) we should keep it on the subject of what happened this afternoon. |  |
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| Police presence? on 20:25 - Dec 29 with 3585 views | 442Dale |
| Police presence? on 20:15 - Dec 29 by D_Alien |
We got turned over by a side with talented players and managed by someone who has them fully motivated. It happens, it doesn't mean there are any more serious questions than there were after our two consecutive victories
Those who keep making remarks (not you) about issues in the boardroom should be more explicit. When i was concerned about an issue with a particular director i put it in writing to him. Have others done the same? |
Sorry, didn’t see this when posting just now.
I simply think this thread should concentrate on what’s gone wrong today off the pitch, especially on the back of earlier in the season. Wasn’t referring to the game at all.
Up to others what they want to do, but would just like to see something change going forward to avoid someone getting seriously injured. | |
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| Police presence? on 20:27 - Dec 29 with 3562 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| Police presence? on 20:10 - Dec 29 by judd |
Exactly. Those of us with children in the vicinity having to witness those scenes and the potential clashes outside may take exception to prattish attempts at pathetic comedic diversion. Especially from those one handed masters of the art. |
It certainly needs sorting out Judd. If 1% eg 20 away fans act like bellends and another 80 or so join in the stewards can’t cope, any attempt to eject the above puts the stewards in serious danger so they do nothing.
It’s not as if this has not happened before and nothing has been done. I took offence at the reference made earlier, now removed, but to throw pyrotechnics, batteries, coins, golf balls, well anything at strangers to me is just weird.
Yet the same clubs will honour a minutes silence, applause, donate money to each other’s good causes etc. We should have cctv of them and insist on prosecution not just banning orders.
If I throw a bottle at someone after a night out and hurt them, I would be lucky to avoid a jail sentence, so why is the pre meditated bringing of a flare or smoke bomb to throw not treated as worse??? |  |
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| Police presence? on 20:29 - Dec 29 with 3543 views | D_Alien |
| Police presence? on 20:25 - Dec 29 by 442Dale |
Sorry, didn’t see this when posting just now.
I simply think this thread should concentrate on what’s gone wrong today off the pitch, especially on the back of earlier in the season. Wasn’t referring to the game at all.
Up to others what they want to do, but would just like to see something change going forward to avoid someone getting seriously injured. |
Well yes. The stewards should've summoned the police straight away. I had a pretty good view of it all, but even when the police finally arrived there was little effort made to do the simple thing and have the (mainly young) fans return to their seats
It all seems obvious looking at it from a short distance, but isn't there a stadium manager whose sole job it is to ensure that this type of potential issue is fully covered in pre-match briefings? | |
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| Police presence? on 20:32 - Dec 29 with 3511 views | judd |
| Police presence? on 20:27 - Dec 29 by Thacks_Rabbits |
It certainly needs sorting out Judd. If 1% eg 20 away fans act like bellends and another 80 or so join in the stewards can’t cope, any attempt to eject the above puts the stewards in serious danger so they do nothing.
It’s not as if this has not happened before and nothing has been done. I took offence at the reference made earlier, now removed, but to throw pyrotechnics, batteries, coins, golf balls, well anything at strangers to me is just weird.
Yet the same clubs will honour a minutes silence, applause, donate money to each other’s good causes etc. We should have cctv of them and insist on prosecution not just banning orders.
If I throw a bottle at someone after a night out and hurt them, I would be lucky to avoid a jail sentence, so why is the pre meditated bringing of a flare or smoke bomb to throw not treated as worse??? |
The amount of smoke bombs in evidence was shocking. The officer I spoke to was absolutely aghast at the decisions from above to not deploy police officers on the day until so late into the game. Imagine if we were getting the better of Bradford? You would have to imagine, like ... |  |
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| Police presence? on 20:35 - Dec 29 with 3478 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| Police presence? on 20:14 - Dec 29 by blackdogblue |
Off track & apolgies to all other forum members for this..
Throwing flares in the Pearl Street you are condoning? There are kids in the FAMILY STAND
U are a W&anker & should be BANNED from posting on this FANS site... |
I never condoned the throwing of flares you tool, I just did not condone you bringing up a disaster that had nothing to do with the tossers that did what happened today.
I did not report you btw, but fail to see how something that caused the death of 58 innocent people has anything to do with today? | |
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| Police presence? on 20:36 - Dec 29 with 3463 views | 442Dale |
| Police presence? on 20:29 - Dec 29 by D_Alien |
Well yes. The stewards should've summoned the police straight away. I had a pretty good view of it all, but even when the police finally arrived there was little effort made to do the simple thing and have the (mainly young) fans return to their seats
It all seems obvious looking at it from a short distance, but isn't there a stadium manager whose sole job it is to ensure that this type of potential issue is fully covered in pre-match briefings? |
And that’s the sort of question we need answering in an open and transparent manner. There is no reason whatsoever that this shouldn’t happen, much as it did with the response to the Trust and supporters after the Doncaster game. The only difference now is that things have got worse within the ground, so there needs to be a level of accountability and a clear plan of action that we can see will lead to a real change. | |
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| Police presence? on 20:40 - Dec 29 with 3434 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| Police presence? on 20:32 - Dec 29 by judd |
The amount of smoke bombs in evidence was shocking. The officer I spoke to was absolutely aghast at the decisions from above to not deploy police officers on the day until so late into the game. Imagine if we were getting the better of Bradford? You would have to imagine, like ... |
Must all have been smuggled in hidden in intimate areas and on kids then eh as our security searches are so good, well on home fans anyway! | |
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| Police presence? on 20:44 - Dec 29 with 3412 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Police presence? on 19:37 - Dec 29 by judd |
Well said, but I expect without a firm hand on the tiller then short term profit will be the goal. |
To just put some numbers around your point, judd, in the year ending 31st May 2017 accounts (2016 in brackets) the club quoted spending of:
* Security and police costs - £78,487 (2016: £97.066)
* Steward and gatekeeper wages - £59,443 (2016: £56,916)
I know there will have been some reasons for the variations but if you just assume that is League games we spend on average £3,500 a game on security and police costs.
I think for 2016/2017 that actually that will have been for some of the more challenging games (bury, Oldham, Sheff United, Millwall, Bolton and Bradford) so 6 - £13k a game.
Either way, that's not a recent change. It's a long standing philosophy of policing and police cost management inside and outside the ground. |  |
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| Police presence? on 21:04 - Dec 29 with 3332 views | DaleiLama |
I've never been in the TDS, but I have always found it a little incongruous that the element of our crowd most likely to cause trouble and engage with opposition fans sits in the family stand. |  |
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| Police presence? on 21:08 - Dec 29 with 3314 views | judd |
| Police presence? on 21:04 - Dec 29 by DaleiLama |
I've never been in the TDS, but I have always found it a little incongruous that the element of our crowd most likely to cause trouble and engage with opposition fans sits in the family stand. |
The "family stand" is at the other end of the stand from the away fans. | |
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| Police presence? on 21:21 - Dec 29 with 3234 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Police presence? on 20:44 - Dec 29 by RAFCBLUE |
To just put some numbers around your point, judd, in the year ending 31st May 2017 accounts (2016 in brackets) the club quoted spending of:
* Security and police costs - £78,487 (2016: £97.066)
* Steward and gatekeeper wages - £59,443 (2016: £56,916)
I know there will have been some reasons for the variations but if you just assume that is League games we spend on average £3,500 a game on security and police costs.
I think for 2016/2017 that actually that will have been for some of the more challenging games (bury, Oldham, Sheff United, Millwall, Bolton and Bradford) so 6 - £13k a game.
Either way, that's not a recent change. It's a long standing philosophy of policing and police cost management inside and outside the ground. |
A Few years ago when Hartlepool fans smashed a window at the club shop I told CD in the Baum after the game, his reaction’ going to cost us more for police in future’ |  |
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| Police presence? on 21:41 - Dec 29 with 3168 views | fitzochris |
| Police presence? on 19:20 - Dec 29 by judd |
Talking to a police officer of higher rank, he thinks there will be an enquiry as to why the club did not employ officers inside the ground. Maximising income streams at the risk of endangering paying customers? |
That’s extremely worrying but, sadly, unsurprising. |  |
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| Police presence? on 21:43 - Dec 29 with 3159 views | DaleiLama |
| Police presence? on 21:08 - Dec 29 by judd |
The "family stand" is at the other end of the stand from the away fans. |
It's still in the same stand though. It's always struck me as odd as there is no physical barrier there once in that stand (that I am aware of). I don't see it even happening, but if a thousand of their fans had decided to hop over into the TDS ………….. | |
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| Police presence? on 21:46 - Dec 29 with 3144 views | KenBoon |
There doesn't need to be any seats tarped off. There's a large gap between two separate fans. The bigger boys could still throw it as far as you could cover and the kids would just go down the bottom for a run-up. A better idea is to act like a proper football club. Actual tickets, actual seat numbers and the correct bum in it. When it comes to ticketing organisation this club is tin-pot. Always has been. I trust the CCTV was operating and guilty 'fans' will be prosecuted. I believe a number were banned after a pitch invasion against Millwall, some of whom never went near the away supporters. I'd hope we can be as strict here. |  | | |
| Police presence? on 21:49 - Dec 29 with 3128 views | rochdale_ranger |
In answer to thacks hysterical shriek with regards to whatever was said about the Bradford fire disaster last week at Sunderland their youth caused a pub to be evacuated by letting smoke bombs off inside it and were causing trouble with elderly Sunderland fans. Now I don’t expect a club synonymous with a fire disaster to be doing anything with regards to smoke bombs etc. They are a bellend club with bellend supporters. |  | | |
| Police presence? on 21:51 - Dec 29 with 3118 views | D_Alien |
| Police presence? on 21:46 - Dec 29 by KenBoon |
There doesn't need to be any seats tarped off. There's a large gap between two separate fans. The bigger boys could still throw it as far as you could cover and the kids would just go down the bottom for a run-up. A better idea is to act like a proper football club. Actual tickets, actual seat numbers and the correct bum in it. When it comes to ticketing organisation this club is tin-pot. Always has been. I trust the CCTV was operating and guilty 'fans' will be prosecuted. I believe a number were banned after a pitch invasion against Millwall, some of whom never went near the away supporters. I'd hope we can be as strict here. |
Agree 100% with this. Watching premier league games on tv, opposition fans are often seated within a couple of yards of each other, with just a single line of stewards in between, and no question of there being any type of incident
If you know you won't get away with behaving badly, there's much less chance of something bad happening | |
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| Police presence? on 22:15 - Dec 29 with 3009 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Police presence? on 21:49 - Dec 29 by rochdale_ranger |
In answer to thacks hysterical shriek with regards to whatever was said about the Bradford fire disaster last week at Sunderland their youth caused a pub to be evacuated by letting smoke bombs off inside it and were causing trouble with elderly Sunderland fans. Now I don’t expect a club synonymous with a fire disaster to be doing anything with regards to smoke bombs etc. They are a bellend club with bellend supporters. |
Ive met several Bradford fans Home and away over the years, never met any Bell ends, every club has them though, us included | |
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| Police presence? on 22:21 - Dec 29 with 2983 views | DaleiLama |
| Police presence? on 22:15 - Dec 29 by rochdaleriddler |
Ive met several Bradford fans Home and away over the years, never met any Bell ends, every club has them though, us included |
As I walked back to my car there was a herd of 20+ Bantam schooligans running down the white line in the middle of Sandy Lane. I didn't stop to advise them that it was a road they were running down for too many reasons to go into here. | |
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| Police presence? on 22:23 - Dec 29 with 2975 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| Police presence? on 21:49 - Dec 29 by rochdale_ranger |
In answer to thacks hysterical shriek with regards to whatever was said about the Bradford fire disaster last week at Sunderland their youth caused a pub to be evacuated by letting smoke bombs off inside it and were causing trouble with elderly Sunderland fans. Now I don’t expect a club synonymous with a fire disaster to be doing anything with regards to smoke bombs etc. They are a bellend club with bellend supporters. |
The fire has sod all to do with anything, so why mention it. The tossers causing trouble are tossers and that’s it, most were probably not even born when it happened.
As stated earlier I think the behaviour is wrong and hope nobody was hurt badly or put off attending in the future, and that the bellends chucking things get prosecuted, but let’s not lower ourselves to talking about the fire, it’s not relevant. | |
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| Police presence? on 22:39 - Dec 29 with 2911 views | UTDKHBA |
I don't post often but been attending for 28 years and never ever have I seen such pathetic clueless stewarding at a dale game! I was there with my son and we regularly sit at that end of the pearl Street and yes if you sit there you can expect a bit of banter now and again. My son is 15 by the way so he knows what can happen and usually enjoys the insults being thrown but today Jesus Christ for that to be going on for over 20 minutes with no police to be seen was absolutely ridiculous!! I took it on myself to speak to a steward as they did not have a clue how to control the feral fans when objects were getting thrown at kids a lot younger than mine,his reaction was to get his colleague in an orange jacket who just said to me that he was sorry!!!! How nobody got seriously injured today is a miracle and for the police to turn up 20 minutes later was ridiculous. Something needs to be done about this asap. | | | |
| Police presence? on 23:29 - Dec 29 with 2795 views | Barrowdale |
Utterly appalling on every level. Took my 82 yr old mum out at 4.25 because of the disgraceful behaviour of our pathetic yoof. Stewarding non existent. Policing non existent. Spoke with the superintendent on the way out who said he didnt know there was even any trouble. Embarassed to be a Dale fan today |  | | |
| Police presence? on 12:45 - Dec 30 with 2260 views | 442Dale |
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2018/december/club-statement--bradford-game/
Good to see investigations have begun. Presumably this will lead to a further statement which also includes an update for supporters around the decision making with regards to stewarding and policing of fixtures and not only focusing on the behaviour of members of the crowd (which is still correct of course, but only part of doing “our utmost to ensure incidents like this do not happen again.”)
Can the Trust confirm that they will be following this up again, if required, so that we can get a better insight into how this situation developed and what changes will be made in the future to ensure incidents like this do not happen again*?
*especially as though incidents like this have already happened again this season. | |
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