| The clamour for Mesa 21:12 - Oct 24 with 13462 views | marchamjack |
Didn't exactly do his case any favours tonight. Think Clement proved a point there against a Utd second string. Wish it hadn't been so but it was. |  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:05 - Oct 24 with 1760 views | TheResurrection |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:01 - Oct 24 by PozuelosSideys |
Mate, the team were shite. 1 to 11.
The blame for that lays squarely at the door of PC and the rest of the coaching staff. Im convinced we are better than that, and i also think the players we have on the whole are capable of playing the sort of game you mentioned over the summer.
Need to get the right guy though, whoever that is. |
Thought we were decent first half.
Second half there was nothing there. No urgency, no patterns, no style or energy, it was poor. |  |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:06 - Oct 24 with 1762 views | skettyparkherbert |
| The clamour for Mesa on 22:49 - Oct 24 by TheResurrection |
What made you think Clucas had a bad game? I mean you've singled out him and Mesa but not Ki or even Ayew?
Clucas didn't put a foot wrong from what I remember, he may have actually had a 100% pass completion, also took a neat little shot just past the post, made decent runs behind (not given by Ayew) and he got stuck in.
The second half we gave up as a team and I can only think that was an instruction from the zombie Clement, but call the game as it is mate, don't make stuff up, or at least back up with evidence. |
I totally agree with you when you say the team gave up in the second half but the reason i singled out Clucas and Mesa was because it was their opportunity to show the manager and the fans what they can do but they went out with a whimper for me.
You say Clucas didn't put a foot wrong and had a 100% pass completion and had a nice shot, made runs and got stuck in?
In the first half he played a nice one two down the right hand side and tripped over his own right foot instead of crossing it when he had plenty of time (schoolboy error)
With all due respect I think if me and you had played we would make runs and get stuck in but he is our record signing, but him and Mesa were totally anonymous.
I do call it as i see it and the evidence was there for all to see. I am as gutted as anyone else |  | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:07 - Oct 24 with 1754 views | theloneranger |
| The clamour for Mesa on 22:49 - Oct 24 by TheResurrection |
What made you think Clucas had a bad game? I mean you've singled out him and Mesa but not Ki or even Ayew?
Clucas didn't put a foot wrong from what I remember, he may have actually had a 100% pass completion, also took a neat little shot just past the post, made decent runs behind (not given by Ayew) and he got stuck in.
The second half we gave up as a team and I can only think that was an instruction from the zombie Clement, but call the game as it is mate, don't make stuff up, or at least back up with evidence. |
I thought Clucas had a tidy game, made himself available for the ball, made some good runs, and Didn't hide like most of his teammates. |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:11 - Oct 24 with 1739 views | swancity |
| The clamour for Mesa on 22:59 - Oct 24 by TheResurrection |
Huh?
Fack me... Clucas didn't put a foot wrong. He was probably the most on the ball for us and with nigh on a 100% pass completion.
That's anything like awful I'm afraid to tall you. Same for Mesa.
The news is at 8 changes and a drippy set of tactics. |
Opinions mate, opinions. It's not an exact science. As for not putting a foot wrong, they both looked several leagues below the United youngsters. Touch, awareness, movement, quality, pace and creativity and therefore poles apart. Seriously, IMO they aren't up to it. Of tonight's team only Ayew Mawson and Abraham are Premier League quality at present and add an on form Fer. Anyway there's no point in arguing about the merit of individual players. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:11 - Oct 24 with 1738 views | PozuelosSideys |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:05 - Oct 24 by TheResurrection |
Thought we were decent first half.
Second half there was nothing there. No urgency, no patterns, no style or energy, it was poor. |
Thats the thing tho. First 10 minutes ,we did look sharp, urgent and pressed a bit. Ki and Ayew looked up for it. Then the novelty wore off and we rolled over.
I dont want somebody like Coleman here, but no way would he tolerate players giving up like that. Hes done for sure. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:13 - Oct 24 with 1723 views | TheResurrection |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:11 - Oct 24 by swancity |
Opinions mate, opinions. It's not an exact science. As for not putting a foot wrong, they both looked several leagues below the United youngsters. Touch, awareness, movement, quality, pace and creativity and therefore poles apart. Seriously, IMO they aren't up to it. Of tonight's team only Ayew Mawson and Abraham are Premier League quality at present and add an on form Fer. Anyway there's no point in arguing about the merit of individual players. |
Yeah well if you put either of them in the United team they'd look the same.
8 changes and dreary tactics ain't gonna make many stand out. | |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:21 - Oct 24 with 1677 views | GeoffThom |
Well the clamour for mesa came to a shuddering stop tonight,he's not ready for first team action after tonight got easily knocked off the ball and a yard to slow in some 50-50s ,clucks to be fair tonight had the best game I've seen from him ,sad to say Rangel may as well retire now way off |  | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:27 - Oct 24 with 1646 views | MoscowJack |
Looked to me like Mesa was playing within himself, probably under orders. He seems to look up, see space (or a run) then realise he'd been told to pass no more than 3 feet....so he did. He's a better player than we've seen but he must be incredibly frustrated and unhappy at the moment.
I think he could have done better with the first goal, as could Rangel, but I'm not going to hang him out to dry for it as it was a nice bit of movement. I'm just gutted that we're not seeing the player that I thought he was going to be when I first saw him play. One thing I've notice him do is give the man he's marking quite a bit of space, as it to encourage a pass to him.....then he bursts in to close him down. Personally, I've never liked that as I prefer tighter marking making it a 'prevention rather than the cure' type of situation, but that's probably just me.
Ki was ok....neat and tidy and tried hard. Didn't expect much more against a star-studded Utd team after being out for so long. Has to start next to Leon v Arsenal.
Clucas looked a bit more energetic playing slightly further forward but he should have been on the left, not right. Not his fault.
Ayew tried hard but was he trying too hard? Sometimes he should have passed instead of trying to beat an extra man but I suppose at least he's trying something different.
Ollie has no service and did well with what he was given. I was desperate (for want of a better word) for him to take his chance but it didn't really come. One thing I wanted more from him was work-rate and aggression - Tammy's hunger and aggression changed the game when he came on and that was all that was missing from Ollie for me. He's the same with the U23s yet scores a hatful there, but maybe you need to make things happen a bit more at this level.
Routs didn't have a good game but I don't think he was as shocking as some made out. He was caught offside a few times but he was making superb runs.
Rangel started ok, but struggled as the game went on. It's a pity he was up against some of the fastest players in the Premier League as it reall exposed his lack of pace.
Nordfelt - catch the feckin ball man!
VDH - didn't do much wrong but will probably kick himself for rushing.
I don't think we need to over-react to this defeat in the same way we shouldn't have got too excited about beating a woeful Huddersfield. Basically, their 2nd eleven comfortably beat ours and with their resources, that's going to happen more often than not.
I'm more worried about the lack of passing game (aka our identity!), the lack of creativity within the squad and how Jenkins (and the Yanks) are hanging Clement out to dry with the lack of quality in this squad. | |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:31 - Oct 24 with 1627 views | TheResurrection |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:27 - Oct 24 by MoscowJack |
Looked to me like Mesa was playing within himself, probably under orders. He seems to look up, see space (or a run) then realise he'd been told to pass no more than 3 feet....so he did. He's a better player than we've seen but he must be incredibly frustrated and unhappy at the moment.
I think he could have done better with the first goal, as could Rangel, but I'm not going to hang him out to dry for it as it was a nice bit of movement. I'm just gutted that we're not seeing the player that I thought he was going to be when I first saw him play. One thing I've notice him do is give the man he's marking quite a bit of space, as it to encourage a pass to him.....then he bursts in to close him down. Personally, I've never liked that as I prefer tighter marking making it a 'prevention rather than the cure' type of situation, but that's probably just me.
Ki was ok....neat and tidy and tried hard. Didn't expect much more against a star-studded Utd team after being out for so long. Has to start next to Leon v Arsenal.
Clucas looked a bit more energetic playing slightly further forward but he should have been on the left, not right. Not his fault.
Ayew tried hard but was he trying too hard? Sometimes he should have passed instead of trying to beat an extra man but I suppose at least he's trying something different.
Ollie has no service and did well with what he was given. I was desperate (for want of a better word) for him to take his chance but it didn't really come. One thing I wanted more from him was work-rate and aggression - Tammy's hunger and aggression changed the game when he came on and that was all that was missing from Ollie for me. He's the same with the U23s yet scores a hatful there, but maybe you need to make things happen a bit more at this level.
Routs didn't have a good game but I don't think he was as shocking as some made out. He was caught offside a few times but he was making superb runs.
Rangel started ok, but struggled as the game went on. It's a pity he was up against some of the fastest players in the Premier League as it reall exposed his lack of pace.
Nordfelt - catch the feckin ball man!
VDH - didn't do much wrong but will probably kick himself for rushing.
I don't think we need to over-react to this defeat in the same way we shouldn't have got too excited about beating a woeful Huddersfield. Basically, their 2nd eleven comfortably beat ours and with their resources, that's going to happen more often than not.
I'm more worried about the lack of passing game (aka our identity!), the lack of creativity within the squad and how Jenkins (and the Yanks) are hanging Clement out to dry with the lack of quality in this squad. |
You can't blame Jenkins and the Americans for Clement's total inability to coach any sort of attacking fluency. He aint got a clue. | |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 23:31 - Oct 24 with 1628 views | jasper_T |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:21 - Oct 24 by GeoffThom |
Well the clamour for mesa came to a shuddering stop tonight,he's not ready for first team action after tonight got easily knocked off the ball and a yard to slow in some 50-50s ,clucks to be fair tonight had the best game I've seen from him ,sad to say Rangel may as well retire now way off |
Clucas having his best game so far isn't much of a milestone.
Tonight's position does suit him more as he can run about a lot over 90 minutes but other than that what did he do? Ran the ball out for a corner in the second minute, fluffed a good crossing opportunity, one long shot not far wide?
Mesa looked lost. Surely someone on the coaching staff could have told him to stand 5 yards deeper instead of being in-line with his midfield partners whose job it was to press? Half the time it wasn't runners from midfield he was losing, it was static players strolling about in the 10 position.
And so our back four got to relive the Bradley days of no protection. | | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:33 - Oct 24 with 1618 views | ploppy |
I know football's all about opinions but I sometimes think I'm watching a different game. I thought Mesa, Clucas and Ki had decent games tonight. Our passing in midfield was much better than normal. Honestly, on my dodgy stream, if I scrunched up my eyes I'd swear it was Leon on the field not Mesa.
Admittedly we were better in the first half - not quite sure what happened second half, but if I had to guess, it had something to do with Mourinho. We were undone by two excellent goals. Not sure if Nordfeldt could have done better for the second - that header came from a long way. Apart from that, did Nordfeldt have a save to make? Sadly, McB isn't up to it. Routledge was ... well, Routledge. Losing Olsson made a big difference, as did bringing Tammy on. Once we went 2 down, Clement didn't know whether to stick or twist. Mourinho knew exactly what to do - once he brought on Matic it was game over.
I did learn something though. Clucas can take a decent corner, as can Ki. | | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:41 - Oct 24 with 1595 views | nantywatcher |
Mesa was dire. Slow, lazy, hopeless first touch, no vision, although very good at pointing it must be said. Get rid | | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 23:51 - Oct 24 with 1566 views | giantstoneater |
| The clamour for Mesa on 21:22 - Oct 24 by jasper_T |
I'd probably play him instead of Carroll on recent form but he's not the Leon replacement we needed. |
Finding Leon`s replacement is going to be a problem for any manager he is a one off!, it would help if the players we brought in would put in the same sort of effort as Leon does but they don`t. Perhaps we should stop trying to replacing him and bring in someone who can bring something different to the side someone with physicality and a nasty streak, perhaps the new Bodde!!. |  | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 07:37 - Oct 25 with 1435 views | marchamjack |
"I thought he did some good things, some not so good things...average" Clement post match on Mesa. Now I think PC was being kind to Mesa there, but tell him in a constructive manner in the dressing room (which he may have done for all we know) but don't say that in a post match interview!
Think Clement is getting his excuses in early for his near departure... | |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 07:57 - Oct 25 with 1412 views | TheResurrection |
Why are people so KEEN to pounce on ANYTHING negative.
Mesa had a decent game, he wasn't at fault for either goal, personally. Rangel and VdH were for the first and there were 9 players around the ball for their second with Ki being the main perpetrator for me, if you have to pick one as that was just a good goal.
A lot on here, shamefully just can't wait to pick up on anything and point the finger of blame.
What chance does anyone have with utter vvank "supporters" like this.
It's pathetic. | |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 08:05 - Oct 25 with 1398 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| The clamour for Mesa on 07:57 - Oct 25 by TheResurrection |
Why are people so KEEN to pounce on ANYTHING negative.
Mesa had a decent game, he wasn't at fault for either goal, personally. Rangel and VdH were for the first and there were 9 players around the ball for their second with Ki being the main perpetrator for me, if you have to pick one as that was just a good goal.
A lot on here, shamefully just can't wait to pick up on anything and point the finger of blame.
What chance does anyone have with utter vvank "supporters" like this.
It's pathetic. |
Mesa was always going to struggle to win over supporters, simply because he was brought in to replace Leon.
I personally thought he looked neat and tidy in possession, moved the ball quickly. He does need to work on his defensive side of the game, seemed to ball watch and make it too easy for players like Lingaard to play in the areas between our defence and midfield. I can understand criticism regarding the points made above, but for some fans to be slagging him off for his first touch etc, clueless.
I'm not sure what people expected from him and Clucas, they have hardly played, both must be low on confidence with a lack of game time, and then chucked in the deep end against United. Some of the stick they have got has been way OTT. |  | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 09:15 - Oct 25 with 1324 views | waynekerr55 |
| The clamour for Mesa on 21:41 - Oct 24 by Tom1912 |
Definitely.
Can not believe we've spent £11m on a defensive midfielder that needs to work on the defensive side of his game. |
Remember it is Huw Jenkins in charge of recruitment, nothing should surprise you. The only thing I'm shocked at is that he hasn't tried to sign Albert Adomah |  |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 09:30 - Oct 25 with 1309 views | WarwickHunt |
| The clamour for Mesa on 09:15 - Oct 25 by waynekerr55 |
Remember it is Huw Jenkins in charge of recruitment, nothing should surprise you. The only thing I'm shocked at is that he hasn't tried to sign Albert Adomah |
Early days... |  | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 09:37 - Oct 25 with 1291 views | TheResurrection |
| The clamour for Mesa on 08:05 - Oct 25 by 34dfgdf54 |
Mesa was always going to struggle to win over supporters, simply because he was brought in to replace Leon.
I personally thought he looked neat and tidy in possession, moved the ball quickly. He does need to work on his defensive side of the game, seemed to ball watch and make it too easy for players like Lingaard to play in the areas between our defence and midfield. I can understand criticism regarding the points made above, but for some fans to be slagging him off for his first touch etc, clueless.
I'm not sure what people expected from him and Clucas, they have hardly played, both must be low on confidence with a lack of game time, and then chucked in the deep end against United. Some of the stick they have got has been way OTT. |
it's not his job to follow Lingaard around if he strays between the lime because if he did that we'd lose our shape.
The idea behind the deep block as Clement calls it is to narrow the space, so our 2 banks get closer to each other and there's less space in between.
There's no way he was at fault for either goal, solely.
What he does tend to do, I'll admit is commit himself which can sometimes leave you out of position, but these aren't criticisms people are picking up on. Instead they're focusing on issues that he wasn't responsible for. | |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 09:42 - Oct 25 with 1272 views | shandyjack |
| The clamour for Mesa on 09:37 - Oct 25 by TheResurrection |
it's not his job to follow Lingaard around if he strays between the lime because if he did that we'd lose our shape.
The idea behind the deep block as Clement calls it is to narrow the space, so our 2 banks get closer to each other and there's less space in between.
There's no way he was at fault for either goal, solely.
What he does tend to do, I'll admit is commit himself which can sometimes leave you out of position, but these aren't criticisms people are picking up on. Instead they're focusing on issues that he wasn't responsible for. |
i'd personally play both Leon and Mesa on Saturday |  |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 09:57 - Oct 25 with 1242 views | WarwickHunt |
| The clamour for Mesa on 09:42 - Oct 25 by shandyjack |
i'd personally play both Leon and Mesa on Saturday |
One defensive defensive midfielder and one attacking defensive midfielder 
...and three centre-backs.
Probably our best hope of not getting embarrassed. | | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 10:04 - Oct 25 with 1229 views | whoflungdung |
It's late October and we seem clueless
Plenty of time to rectify but can we do it | |
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| The clamour for Mesa on 10:04 - Oct 25 with 1229 views | jasper_T |
Ki, Leon plus one other. Carroll's been poor for a stretch now, Clucas is awful, Fer is a 30 minute player if that, so giving Mesa a try with licence to get on the ball and dictate with less positional responsibility is worth a punt imo.
I forgot about Sanches for a minute there. He's terrible, too. | | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 10:37 - Oct 25 with 1198 views | andypitt56 |
| The clamour for Mesa on 10:04 - Oct 25 by jasper_T |
Ki, Leon plus one other. Carroll's been poor for a stretch now, Clucas is awful, Fer is a 30 minute player if that, so giving Mesa a try with licence to get on the ball and dictate with less positional responsibility is worth a punt imo.
I forgot about Sanches for a minute there. He's terrible, too. |
three players that stood out for me were Ki, Clucas and ayew, first half mainly, second half was dreadful. I thought they played okay in the first half, Mcburnie showed some flashes of talent but he was feeding off scraps. two that stood out for wrong reasons for me were rangel and routlege, Poor position from rangel and wayne needs an education on the offside rule, shocking. | | | |
| The clamour for Mesa on 10:42 - Oct 25 with 1179 views | jasper_T |
| The clamour for Mesa on 10:37 - Oct 25 by andypitt56 |
three players that stood out for me were Ki, Clucas and ayew, first half mainly, second half was dreadful. I thought they played okay in the first half, Mcburnie showed some flashes of talent but he was feeding off scraps. two that stood out for wrong reasons for me were rangel and routlege, Poor position from rangel and wayne needs an education on the offside rule, shocking. |
What did Clucas do that stood out for you in a positive way?
He was awful on the ball, tripping over his own feet more than once. Made a few runs forward? A tame long shot. I was shocked that Leon and the Sky pundit singled him out for praise after the first half. | | | |
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