| Routledge v Montero 14:47 - Feb 5 with 4642 views | AussieSwan |
Hi guys, just a question as to why Montero has seemed to fall right out of the plans of the manager(s) of late?
He started the season in scintillating form and was arguably the most dangerous winger in the league during the first 3-4 games, but his form seems to have taken a nosedive and he's now going through games as an unused substitute.
But even so, whilst Routledge was very good against WBA I'll admit, statistically he doesn't give the team a lot, so I'm a bit unsure why Montero isn't at least getting a crack (or at least subbed on) for Routledge? Thought it was odd that Ayew was subbed off instead of Routledge as well the other night, especially when it was for Amat rather than Montero/Barrow.
As others have said, Routledge is almost like a non-attacking attacker. This is not at all an attack on Routledge, as he's been a loyal servant for the club, a great team player and an extremely hard worker, but hasn't produced a lot of goals and assists for a while now, and doesn't have the sheer pace that frightens defenders like Montero does.
Wouldn't Montero be a more dangerous player to start than Routledge?
I apologise if my knowledge is lacking - I'll admit that over in Australia, it's hard to watch every single Swans game given the timeslots that they are on - but I try to watch as many as possible.
Would love to hear your thoughts on this, as personally I'm a bit confused. |  |
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| Routledge v Montero on 14:53 - Feb 5 with 3240 views | DanGom1 |
Unfortunately Jeff is abit like Pablo Hernandez
Can be absoutley brilliant for 1 or 2 games and then be absolutley non existent or injured for the next 10 - 12 games, Routledge is more reliable, consistent. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 14:56 - Feb 5 with 3221 views | Highjack |
We've completely dispensed with the winger formation and Montero can only play as an out and out winger. Until we go back to the wide formation he won't play much. Routledge is being utilised more as a more central attacker. Tucking infield with ayew and siggy with the full backs providing the width.
I agree he hasn't chipped in with many goals and assists but his work rate and defensive work is far superior to monteros and suits this new pressing game we are playing. |  |
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| Routledge v Montero on 15:20 - Feb 5 with 3141 views | Uxbridge |
| Routledge v Montero on 14:53 - Feb 5 by DanGom1 |
Unfortunately Jeff is abit like Pablo Hernandez
Can be absoutley brilliant for 1 or 2 games and then be absolutley non existent or injured for the next 10 - 12 games, Routledge is more reliable, consistent. |
I can't think of two wingers less alike than Pablo and Jeff. |  |
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| Routledge v Montero on 15:24 - Feb 5 with 3123 views | jasonbromham |
For me I think Barrow should be ahead of both of them on current form. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 15:30 - Feb 5 with 3103 views | londonlisa2001 |
Routledge's movement and work rate pulls defenders all over the place creating space for Siggy, Ayew and now Paloschi. He also tracks back and creates an extra line of defence.
Montero stands in the same position all game pretty much, so doesn't create any space at all for anyone else and doesn't defend.
Also despite Montero being faster than Routledge, we actually break quicker as a team through Routs than we do through Montero as he seems to be quicker in mind and also goes for it, whereas Montero doubles back as often as not. There was a moment late against Everton where Routs picked up the ball way back in the left back position and carried it 60 yards further up the pitch thus relieving the pressure on us - Montero would have lost the ball and it would have come straight back.
The problem with statistics in football is that it is becoming all about a goal or an assist and it doesn't show up all the other stuff, some of which is incredibly important to the team.
I'd pick Routs over Montero any day of the week. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 15:34 - Feb 5 with 3087 views | union_jack |
| Routledge v Montero on 15:30 - Feb 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Routledge's movement and work rate pulls defenders all over the place creating space for Siggy, Ayew and now Paloschi. He also tracks back and creates an extra line of defence.
Montero stands in the same position all game pretty much, so doesn't create any space at all for anyone else and doesn't defend.
Also despite Montero being faster than Routledge, we actually break quicker as a team through Routs than we do through Montero as he seems to be quicker in mind and also goes for it, whereas Montero doubles back as often as not. There was a moment late against Everton where Routs picked up the ball way back in the left back position and carried it 60 yards further up the pitch thus relieving the pressure on us - Montero would have lost the ball and it would have come straight back.
The problem with statistics in football is that it is becoming all about a goal or an assist and it doesn't show up all the other stuff, some of which is incredibly important to the team.
I'd pick Routs over Montero any day of the week. |
Routs over Montero for sure at present. Barrow neck and neck with Routs though. Both the latter have been impressive of late. |  |
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| Routledge v Montero on 15:37 - Feb 5 with 3075 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Routledge v Montero on 15:34 - Feb 5 by union_jack |
Routs over Montero for sure at present. Barrow neck and neck with Routs though. Both the latter have been impressive of late. |
Yes I like Barrow a lot.
Not sure he has the discipline that Routs has as yet - if we get a bit safer, I'd like to see him given more time. I'd certainly pick him over Montero. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 15:46 - Feb 5 with 3040 views | jack247 |
We have changed the way we play. Routledge isn't an out an out winger, he kind of plays a hybrid role between winger and attacking midfielder. He also tracks back and is savvy enough to drag defenders around and cover teammates when they get caught out of position.
Jeff is a winger. Very good in the right setup, but we are currently playing a formation that requires the full backs to provide the width. He woukd have to adapt his game quite drastically, or we would need to find another way of playing. At the moment his best use is probably coming off the bench to stretch defences when we are protecting a lead | | | |
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| Routledge v Montero on 15:48 - Feb 5 with 3030 views | EasternJack |
This might help
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| Routledge v Montero on 16:04 - Feb 5 with 2971 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
Don't think Stats tell the whole story for Routs recent contribution
Think he's improved massively in almost being our target man to hold the ball up at times. Carry it when its needed and also some of his link up play is underrated.
Think he's almost essential to how we are playing at the moment with his movement
Shows how we all see things differently I guess!!! |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Routledge v Montero on 16:09 - Feb 5 with 2950 views | EasternJack |
I agree. But I think the stats confirm that Montero poses a greater threat going forward than Routs - regardless of formation.
Interesting to see the above defence score. Need to check how that is calculated - I assume Montero gets some positive credit from being part of a winning team early on.
As much as I like Routledge - I prefer it when we play with width and I think Montero has all the potential in the world to be head and shoulders above both Barrow and Routledge. Hoping Guidolin can bring this potential to reality. | |
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| Routledge v Montero on 16:15 - Feb 5 with 2930 views | Dewi1jack |
| Routledge v Montero on 15:30 - Feb 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Routledge's movement and work rate pulls defenders all over the place creating space for Siggy, Ayew and now Paloschi. He also tracks back and creates an extra line of defence.
Montero stands in the same position all game pretty much, so doesn't create any space at all for anyone else and doesn't defend.
Also despite Montero being faster than Routledge, we actually break quicker as a team through Routs than we do through Montero as he seems to be quicker in mind and also goes for it, whereas Montero doubles back as often as not. There was a moment late against Everton where Routs picked up the ball way back in the left back position and carried it 60 yards further up the pitch thus relieving the pressure on us - Montero would have lost the ball and it would have come straight back.
The problem with statistics in football is that it is becoming all about a goal or an assist and it doesn't show up all the other stuff, some of which is incredibly important to the team.
I'd pick Routs over Montero any day of the week. |
Some of the trouble was when Jeff went and stripped a defender, he had time to make a brew whilst waiting for the midfield to catch up.
He had time to brew up and watch the bloody highlights while waiting for Bafe.
That is if Bafe wasn't already in an offside position 
Routs helps Tayls out a fair bit in defence, can carry the ball upfield, can deliver a cross (very hard to pick out a player when there's only one in the box!)
Think Jeff/ Mo/ Routs/ Siggy and Andre will work more effectively with Al running his nuts off upfront and trying to get into the box.
That lad is going to be pulling 2 or 3 defenders with him at times.
When we have a corner against us, I'd leave him and if Mo is on, Mo as well on the half way line.
Opposition will ending up leaving 3 or 4 players back to try and stop the speedy break. Especially when we're at home |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Routledge v Montero on 16:18 - Feb 5 with 2919 views | karnataka |
Montero has shown he has the ability to be better than either Routledge or Barrow but unfortunately, giving a 9 out of 10 performance once in 5, 6, 7 games or whatever is not enough at this level particularly when your contribution is just about a 3 in those other games. Routs, and, more recently, Barrow have shown they will always give you a 6-7 performance or an 8 on a good day which shows their consistency. You cannot have a passenger and play with 10 men at this level even if you know he possesses the ability to destroy fullbacks.
As for Routs v Barrow, horses for courses. Barrow has the pace to beat defenders but as others have said, Routs tracking back and defensive work can make his overall contribution that much more effective in certain games. Also, I don't think it's coincidence that Taylor has been putting in some better performances in recent weeks when Montero has been on the bench. |  | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 17:39 - Feb 5 with 2804 views | stid |
Montero is a luxury we cannot afford to have atm, brilliant going forward not so much going the other way. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:07 - Feb 5 with 2729 views | Glyn1 |
| Routledge v Montero on 16:09 - Feb 5 by EasternJack |
I agree. But I think the stats confirm that Montero poses a greater threat going forward than Routs - regardless of formation.
Interesting to see the above defence score. Need to check how that is calculated - I assume Montero gets some positive credit from being part of a winning team early on.
As much as I like Routledge - I prefer it when we play with width and I think Montero has all the potential in the world to be head and shoulders above both Barrow and Routledge. Hoping Guidolin can bring this potential to reality. |
100% agree.
I like Routledge but Montero's best is better than Rout's best even if he is not as consistent.
It's always swings and roundabouts, but let's go for the moments of glory that we'll remember after the season ends. Montero destroying the Arsenal defender with his sheer pace for example. Wayne Routledge is dependable and will always do his best and I like him as a player so it's a nice problem to have.
By the way, will Nathan qualify for a Champions medal if they actually bloody do it? |  |
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| Routledge v Montero on 18:16 - Feb 5 with 2699 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Routledge v Montero on 16:15 - Feb 5 by Dewi1jack |
Some of the trouble was when Jeff went and stripped a defender, he had time to make a brew whilst waiting for the midfield to catch up.
He had time to brew up and watch the bloody highlights while waiting for Bafe.
That is if Bafe wasn't already in an offside position
Routs helps Tayls out a fair bit in defence, can carry the ball upfield, can deliver a cross (very hard to pick out a player when there's only one in the box!)
Think Jeff/ Mo/ Routs/ Siggy and Andre will work more effectively with Al running his nuts off upfront and trying to get into the box.
That lad is going to be pulling 2 or 3 defenders with him at times.
When we have a corner against us, I'd leave him and if Mo is on, Mo as well on the half way line.
Opposition will ending up leaving 3 or 4 players back to try and stop the speedy break. Especially when we're at home |
Yes that is very true - the West Brom game was the first time in a long time we had someone run in to the near post and that makes a huge difference for a winger.
But I think Montero flatters to deceive - he beats a man (twice or three times) but then his crossing is just awful a lot of the time. Either hits the first man (if on the floor) or is a little dink into the box requiring the forward to generate all the power. I agree that they will all be helped though by Paloschi and also agree on the corners bit. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:29 - Feb 5 with 2660 views | Griffting |
IF and that is a massive if, Montero could learn to play the role routs is playing in team now.. He would be terrifying for defences. His main problem is the opposition just go two's up on him and give him little chance to create anything. Now, if he could play that sort of shadow striker, moving from left to right constantly popping up all over the place, through the flanks and down the middle, the opposition wouldn't be able to double up on him and would allow him to cause havoc running at defences.
Saying that, do i think he's intelligent enough as a footballer to integrate himself into that role? I haven't seen anything to say he could be. He hasn't reinvented himself enough, when opposition doubles up on intelligent wingers, they come inside, swap to the opposite wing, drop deeper etc, they go looking to find a solution to their problem. Montero just continues to use the same play hugging the touchline. Guidolin changed Sanchez's way of playing to allow him to move from a winger into that second striker type role but i feel Sanchez is an intelligent footballer. |  | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:30 - Feb 5 with 2659 views | jackrabbit |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:16 - Feb 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes that is very true - the West Brom game was the first time in a long time we had someone run in to the near post and that makes a huge difference for a winger.
But I think Montero flatters to deceive - he beats a man (twice or three times) but then his crossing is just awful a lot of the time. Either hits the first man (if on the floor) or is a little dink into the box requiring the forward to generate all the power. I agree that they will all be helped though by Paloschi and also agree on the corners bit. |
Well said. I think Montero is too one dimensional. He never seems to take the ball on the run but always standing still with a defender a couple of yards away - an exception was his goal against Oxford. He burned Callum Chambers last season and Ivanovitch this season. But since then he has been a huge disappointment and Routs is a much more sensible selection. Routledge put over a tremendous cross on Tuesday that Ayew should have done better with. He also put a delightful little dink through to Paloschi that resulted in an excellent save by the Baggies goalie. He's lively and buzzing and has been excellent of late. So to say he doesn't contribute in attack is ludicrous. |  | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:32 - Feb 5 with 2640 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:16 - Feb 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes that is very true - the West Brom game was the first time in a long time we had someone run in to the near post and that makes a huge difference for a winger.
But I think Montero flatters to deceive - he beats a man (twice or three times) but then his crossing is just awful a lot of the time. Either hits the first man (if on the floor) or is a little dink into the box requiring the forward to generate all the power. I agree that they will all be helped though by Paloschi and also agree on the corners bit. |
I think that the speed we now attack at is going to help EVERY forward player we have, Siggy is reveling in it as is Routledge. Paloschi will make it even better for them when he's really bedded in. Montero will thrive but there's room to rotate both players . Barrow as well as he's showing the form that ripped arsenal a new one. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Routledge v Montero on 18:33 - Feb 5 with 2639 views | jack247 |
| Routledge v Montero on 16:09 - Feb 5 by EasternJack |
I agree. But I think the stats confirm that Montero poses a greater threat going forward than Routs - regardless of formation.
Interesting to see the above defence score. Need to check how that is calculated - I assume Montero gets some positive credit from being part of a winning team early on.
As much as I like Routledge - I prefer it when we play with width and I think Montero has all the potential in the world to be head and shoulders above both Barrow and Routledge. Hoping Guidolin can bring this potential to reality. |
What the stats don't show you is who brings more to the team.
Who makes the clever run off the ball that drags a defender away and allows Ayew to burst through a gap.
Who tracks back and helps his full back out when they have a winger running at them.
Who slots into Leon or Corks position on the rare occasions they press forward.
Who plays 3 or 4 passes in an intricate triangle move that ends up as a chance for one of our other attacking players.
As others have said, Montero will produce more jaw dropping moments and full backs would prefer to have Routledge running at them. He wouldn't have linked with Gylfi, Ayew and Paloschi the other night like Routs did though, it's just not his game. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:37 - Feb 5 with 2612 views | midswan |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:30 - Feb 5 by jackrabbit |
Well said. I think Montero is too one dimensional. He never seems to take the ball on the run but always standing still with a defender a couple of yards away - an exception was his goal against Oxford. He burned Callum Chambers last season and Ivanovitch this season. But since then he has been a huge disappointment and Routs is a much more sensible selection. Routledge put over a tremendous cross on Tuesday that Ayew should have done better with. He also put a delightful little dink through to Paloschi that resulted in an excellent save by the Baggies goalie. He's lively and buzzing and has been excellent of late. So to say he doesn't contribute in attack is ludicrous. |
Spot on. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:38 - Feb 5 with 2609 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:33 - Feb 5 by jack247 |
What the stats don't show you is who brings more to the team.
Who makes the clever run off the ball that drags a defender away and allows Ayew to burst through a gap.
Who tracks back and helps his full back out when they have a winger running at them.
Who slots into Leon or Corks position on the rare occasions they press forward.
Who plays 3 or 4 passes in an intricate triangle move that ends up as a chance for one of our other attacking players.
As others have said, Montero will produce more jaw dropping moments and full backs would prefer to have Routledge running at them. He wouldn't have linked with Gylfi, Ayew and Paloschi the other night like Routs did though, it's just not his game. |
It's not obvious to many (not referencing Eastern Jack there by the way) what Routledge brings to the table but he has been 7.5 /8.5 out of ten for quite a few games now. He links up well with everyone from Leon to Paloschi and he and Siggy hit it off beautifully.
I really can't wait for the game tomorrow! | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Routledge v Montero on 18:57 - Feb 5 with 2569 views | bazzool |
| Routledge v Montero on 15:24 - Feb 5 by jasonbromham |
For me I think Barrow should be ahead of both of them on current form. |
Definately, and i know this sounds mad but when im playing fifa 16 with the formation of a false 9 i can barrow to run up the wing cut inside just outside the box and do a finishing shot on goal and score, even though his ratings are lower than the others | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 19:00 - Feb 5 with 2555 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Routledge v Montero on 18:57 - Feb 5 by bazzool |
Definately, and i know this sounds mad but when im playing fifa 16 with the formation of a false 9 i can barrow to run up the wing cut inside just outside the box and do a finishing shot on goal and score, even though his ratings are lower than the others |
When I'm playing Monopoly I can buy Park Lane and build a hotel on it as well. | | | |
| Routledge v Montero on 19:02 - Feb 5 with 2542 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Despite everything said about Montero's speed & Rout's "other abilities" the most dangerous player and the most defensive player is Barrow, as those stats above show.
He is also almost as quick as Montero, but offers more around and in the Penalty Area.
Montero actually showed what he is capable of against Oxford when he linkd up with Tabanou (attacking Fullback) and then scored that great goal, he just isn't doing it enough and the less he plays the less he is going to be confident enough to do so. | | | |
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