| tomorrow can't come quick enough 14:17 - Oct 16 with 2301379 views | batman |
Not for us, but for Bury.
i was credit checking a potential customer and decided to nosey onto
BFC's file and was (or maybe not) supprised to see a new CCJ for circa £22k lodged
only Wednesday this week.
looks like they are in need of a bumper crowd tomorrow to settle some bills |  | | |  |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 10:45 - Oct 23 with 10106 views | D_Alien |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 01:20 - Oct 23 by joecooke |
Proper rag pudding had stewing steak ii it,followed by another with jam in it!
[Post edited 23 Oct 2015 4:49]
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That sounds like a Chinese proverb, JC
I wonder if Day's thought of tapping Xi JinPing up for a bit of extra finance whilst he's oop north? |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 10:48 - Oct 23 with 10094 views | BigKindo |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 10:45 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
That sounds like a Chinese proverb, JC
I wonder if Day's thought of tapping Xi JinPing up for a bit of extra finance whilst he's oop north? |
He'd probably want a car parking place in return and would he be bURY'S first XI? |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 10:48 - Oct 23 with 10093 views | deeplishblue |
I think that TV money in League 1 is Circa 500k - TV money in the championship is Circa 5Million.
If they can get there - and they are having a go - they they could wipe out their debts at a stroke.
If they don't get there......It could be buckets out again. |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 11:00 - Oct 23 with 10060 views | BigKindo |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 10:48 - Oct 23 by deeplishblue |
I think that TV money in League 1 is Circa 500k - TV money in the championship is Circa 5Million.
If they can get there - and they are having a go - they they could wipe out their debts at a stroke.
If they don't get there......It could be buckets out again. |
The debt that is in the public domain is that at 31-05-2014.. The next accounts up to 31-05-2015 are due to be filed no later than 29-02-2016 by which time a further 21 months will have elapsed. By that time the debt may be more than the £ 5 million you are suggesting and look what has happened to Swindon Town who last season appeared to perhaps have the same management plans as bURY. But yet again with sports organisations HMRC appear to have a different strategy as to that applied to other commercial organisations. It is illegal to trade in the knowledge that your company is insolvent. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 11:35 - Oct 23 with 9977 views | TTNYear |
And when in the championship they will have to pay championship wages. For new and old players
I'm baffled by it to be honest. Unless there is this mystery backer then I can only see one outcome, with a lot of shakers crying into their beer. One thing that I don't understand that the majority of shakers seem to ignore, that if this business model was sound then every club would be doing it. The increasing amount of CCJ's points to a lack of a money man at the top for me and a massive gamble on the roulette wheel. But even if their number comes up it will only negate the debt they have created since Day has arrived. What will they do if they have to fund a team of Chris Eagle's and Leon Clarke's in the Championship? That 5 million wont last long. [Post edited 23 Oct 2015 11:36]
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| Anti-cliquism is the last refuge of the messageboard scoundrel - Copyright Dorset Dale productions |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 12:22 - Oct 23 with 9890 views | D_Alien |
The point of the whole exercise is to use Bury, and it's supporters, as a means of financing debt.
Anything else is just hot air. Day will withdraw when the time is right for him with no personal loss, just a whole bunch of creditors and a bunch of mugs in the fans who believe in what he's doing; Flitcroft included, although tbf he's probably just making the right noises whilst being paid a decent whack. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 12:59 - Oct 23 with 9807 views | D_BFC |
I would state that some Bury fans are not deluded and have been trying to get answers for a while.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bur
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/football/shakers/11286235.We_are_not_keyboa
Conn is heavily involved in the Hillsbrough inquiry but would do another article if enough info can be provided. The CCJs may be a start.
Things were dead in the water for fan action once Forever Bury asked shareholders who weren't attending the AGM to allow them to use their shares for proxy votes against Board proposals and then promptly made a complete U-turn under threats from the Board to evict them and their Cabin from Gigg Lane. FB then allowed the board to "recommend" Joy Hart as a director. I'm sure she loves the club but she's a lame duck and everyone knows it.
Maybe the "BT10" should've inflitrated FB early and had a legitimate voice from a fans organisation. As it was, the board managed to isolate them, even releasing a statement calling them "keyboard cowards". Not sure what the fans can do from here on in. I don't have millions of quid in the bank to bail them out when the proverbial hits the fan so sitting and hoping we get promoted - our injury list and recent performances suggest it's a tall order - is about it (other suggestions welcome). | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 13:16 - Oct 23 with 9783 views | SuddenLad |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 12:59 - Oct 23 by D_BFC |
I would state that some Bury fans are not deluded and have been trying to get answers for a while.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2014/nov/12/bur
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/football/shakers/11286235.We_are_not_keyboa
Conn is heavily involved in the Hillsbrough inquiry but would do another article if enough info can be provided. The CCJs may be a start.
Things were dead in the water for fan action once Forever Bury asked shareholders who weren't attending the AGM to allow them to use their shares for proxy votes against Board proposals and then promptly made a complete U-turn under threats from the Board to evict them and their Cabin from Gigg Lane. FB then allowed the board to "recommend" Joy Hart as a director. I'm sure she loves the club but she's a lame duck and everyone knows it.
Maybe the "BT10" should've inflitrated FB early and had a legitimate voice from a fans organisation. As it was, the board managed to isolate them, even releasing a statement calling them "keyboard cowards". Not sure what the fans can do from here on in. I don't have millions of quid in the bank to bail them out when the proverbial hits the fan so sitting and hoping we get promoted - our injury list and recent performances suggest it's a tall order - is about it (other suggestions welcome). |
As you say, Mr. Conn will write another piece on the Bury fiasco, but only if further evidence is forthcoming or if the situation can be shown to have changed since his report in the Guardian in 2014.
I would suggest that a concerted effort from all 'interested parties' with supporting evidence where available to david.conn@theguardian.com may whet his appetite sufficiently for him to start typing again.
If enough ammunition can be shown that things have moved on from the previously reported position, that may well be the answer and widen the audience sufficiently for a deeper look as to what's really going on behind the verbal claptrap emanating from Giggle Lane. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 13:27 - Oct 23 with 9749 views | D_BFC |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 13:16 - Oct 23 by SuddenLad |
As you say, Mr. Conn will write another piece on the Bury fiasco, but only if further evidence is forthcoming or if the situation can be shown to have changed since his report in the Guardian in 2014.
I would suggest that a concerted effort from all 'interested parties' with supporting evidence where available to david.conn@theguardian.com may whet his appetite sufficiently for him to start typing again.
If enough ammunition can be shown that things have moved on from the previously reported position, that may well be the answer and widen the audience sufficiently for a deeper look as to what's really going on behind the verbal claptrap emanating from Giggle Lane. |
I think you're spot on, and I think that's the block at the moment. The CCJs are there but perhaps not enough beyond educated guesses on who is owed these monies.
There are people working on supporting evidence but not always that easy to come by. Sometimes the focus on rumour (e.g. L Clarke missing appearence fees) over fact holds them back. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:54 - Oct 23 with 9510 views | D_Alien |
The thing is, David Flitcroft - who used to be one of our own and therefore something of a hero still, to many Daleys - is complicit in this whole sordid enterprise.
Now I don't for one minute begrudge him earning a significant multiple of the national average income in order to provide for himself and his family.
But, in making such positive noises to the media about the Bury project - and that includes the financing of it, not just the football - he's very much complicit in misleading supporters of Bury FC and in fact football fans everywhere as to the true nature of what they're spending their hard earned cash on. It's a type of confidence trick. Even if he just got on with the football and picked up the money, that money is coming from creditors who are basically being scammed.
If anyone is in any doubt about this, the list of CCJs in this thread should be put before them and the question asked - what the bloody hell is going on?
Edit: mods, are you ok with this? If not, I'll wipe it. [Post edited 23 Oct 2015 15:03]
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 15:14 - Oct 23 with 9432 views | SuddenLad |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:54 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
The thing is, David Flitcroft - who used to be one of our own and therefore something of a hero still, to many Daleys - is complicit in this whole sordid enterprise.
Now I don't for one minute begrudge him earning a significant multiple of the national average income in order to provide for himself and his family.
But, in making such positive noises to the media about the Bury project - and that includes the financing of it, not just the football - he's very much complicit in misleading supporters of Bury FC and in fact football fans everywhere as to the true nature of what they're spending their hard earned cash on. It's a type of confidence trick. Even if he just got on with the football and picked up the money, that money is coming from creditors who are basically being scammed.
If anyone is in any doubt about this, the list of CCJs in this thread should be put before them and the question asked - what the bloody hell is going on?
Edit: mods, are you ok with this? If not, I'll wipe it. [Post edited 23 Oct 2015 15:03]
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In defence of DF, he may well have sought the assurances from all relevant authorities within the club, that all is 'above board' before he has been prepared to be part and parcel of it and having received those assurances has agreed to be a part of the 'on-going project'.
Who knows who is saying what to whom and what assurances are being given ?
At the moment, (to us outsiders) it's an apparent paper-trail of debt chasing debt with little in the way of any substance to support the obvious expenditure taking place.
Few will playing or working for weekly IOU's or promissory notes. [Post edited 23 Oct 2015 15:16]
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 15:19 - Oct 23 with 9400 views | D_Alien |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 15:14 - Oct 23 by SuddenLad |
In defence of DF, he may well have sought the assurances from all relevant authorities within the club, that all is 'above board' before he has been prepared to be part and parcel of it and having received those assurances has agreed to be a part of the 'on-going project'.
Who knows who is saying what to whom and what assurances are being given ?
At the moment, (to us outsiders) it's an apparent paper-trail of debt chasing debt with little in the way of any substance to support the obvious expenditure taking place.
Few will playing or working for weekly IOU's or promissory notes. [Post edited 23 Oct 2015 15:16]
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I really hope you're right SuddenLad, because like many on this forum I've always held Flicker in high regard, and under normal circumstances wouldn't have any issue with him being manager of a close rival - that's just football, and he's entitled to earn a living like anyone else through the use of his talents.
I just hope he doesn't have cause to regret his time at Bury if other people end up losing their livelihoods further down the chain due to monies owed to businesses which then go bust. | |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 15:19 - Oct 23 with 9398 views | D_BFC |
Career wise, in some ways DF can't lose. He currently has last year's promotion on his managerial CV to go along with the success as an assistant at Rochdale and his relative success in keeping Barnsley up a few years ago. Having said all that, I've met DF - albeit briefly - and he seems a man of integrity.
If it goes as predicted, he can walk away with the "I had no idea this was going on behind the scenes" talk.
Statement expected soon according to Joy. Will it say a lot but tell you little? Probably. [Post edited 23 Oct 2015 15:24]
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 15:26 - Oct 23 with 9368 views | SuddenLad |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 15:19 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
I really hope you're right SuddenLad, because like many on this forum I've always held Flicker in high regard, and under normal circumstances wouldn't have any issue with him being manager of a close rival - that's just football, and he's entitled to earn a living like anyone else through the use of his talents.
I just hope he doesn't have cause to regret his time at Bury if other people end up losing their livelihoods further down the chain due to monies owed to businesses which then go bust. |
I'm hoping beyond hope, for the same reasons that he's above all the shenanigans (if indeed, it turns out to be so).
Be a shame to see a distasteful outcome. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:22 - Oct 23 with 9100 views | TalkingSutty |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 14:54 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
The thing is, David Flitcroft - who used to be one of our own and therefore something of a hero still, to many Daleys - is complicit in this whole sordid enterprise.
Now I don't for one minute begrudge him earning a significant multiple of the national average income in order to provide for himself and his family.
But, in making such positive noises to the media about the Bury project - and that includes the financing of it, not just the football - he's very much complicit in misleading supporters of Bury FC and in fact football fans everywhere as to the true nature of what they're spending their hard earned cash on. It's a type of confidence trick. Even if he just got on with the football and picked up the money, that money is coming from creditors who are basically being scammed.
If anyone is in any doubt about this, the list of CCJs in this thread should be put before them and the question asked - what the bloody hell is going on?
Edit: mods, are you ok with this? If not, I'll wipe it. [Post edited 23 Oct 2015 15:03]
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Great post. I admire Flicker for what he achieved alongside Hilly but I think he is batting on a very sticky wicket at bury. His support for Day is admirable and he doesn't strike me as being naive because he's involved in his own family building business, so i don't buy that as an excuse.
Maybe everything is above board, Hilly is quick to jump on clubs who cheat the system by spending money they never had and he didn't mention any concerns or surprise regarding their spending last week. Maybe it's just us Dale fans who have misinterperated everything, the proof will be in the pudding. |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:49 - Oct 23 with 9044 views | fermin |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 00:44 - Oct 23 by Sandyman |
It seems that as of October 21st 2015 , bury fc's "DueDil Credit Report" rating is 6/100 and its "credit health" is "very high risk" , based on the clubs current financial position.
The above report also states:
"Negative Factors:
This company has had multiple CCJs registered against them within the last 36 months which are currently still outstanding.
The latest Balance Sheet indicates a negative net working capital position.
The latest cash balances are considered to be low in terms of the overall outstanding creditor obligations.
The negative debt/equity ratio indicates a Balance Sheet deficiency funded by creditors/debt.
There has been a reduction in shareholders funds compared with the previous balance sheet."
Looks like Chur is running the club in keeping with its famous financial history. |
Out of curiosity and in the interests of balance, what sort of things are on the Dale record? Similarly for some of the other stuff higher up the thread?
What about other clubs (if anyone has the time)? It woud be interesting to see to what extent Bury are (a)typical and put things in context. |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:40 - Oct 23 with 8945 views | batman |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:49 - Oct 23 by fermin |
Out of curiosity and in the interests of balance, what sort of things are on the Dale record? Similarly for some of the other stuff higher up the thread?
What about other clubs (if anyone has the time)? It woud be interesting to see to what extent Bury are (a)typical and put things in context. |
Here you go for comparison
Lifted from same page.
We are a 'stable business' if not spectacular. My words not Experians
The 78 is a score out of 100 for creditworthiness. BFC from memory is either 4 or 6
The more interesting bits are the records of the Directors CD is listed as being a director of
3 Co the 'lowest score' being Dales
Chur on the other hand is listed as being a Director of 29 Co's with only 1 rated above 50 (74)
1 between 25 and 50 the rest being below 25
The one who has the highest rating is SG Sports Management. Now I remember a link between
BFC and SG Sports but can't remember how.
Draw your own conclusions
Standard Report Full Report
00111019 : ROCHDALE ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL CLUB,LIMITED(THE)
Score
78
Risk
Below Average Risk
Credit Limit
£32,000
Credit Rating
£16,000
Monitor
Payment Rating
In the last 6 years there have been:
No CCJs have been issued.
Terms and Conditions
Privacy & Cookies | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:56 - Oct 23 with 8908 views | BigKindo |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:49 - Oct 23 by fermin |
Out of curiosity and in the interests of balance, what sort of things are on the Dale record? Similarly for some of the other stuff higher up the thread?
What about other clubs (if anyone has the time)? It woud be interesting to see to what extent Bury are (a)typical and put things in context. |
The last published accounts up to 31-05-2014 showed assets of 474,484. On the other hand it looks as though tomorrow's visitors could perhaps be adrift by as much as 4.800,000 whereas Bolton are looking into a black hole with a figure of 182,000,000. | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:56 - Oct 23 with 8903 views | batman |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 19:40 - Oct 23 by batman |
Here you go for comparison
Lifted from same page.
We are a 'stable business' if not spectacular. My words not Experians
The 78 is a score out of 100 for creditworthiness. BFC from memory is either 4 or 6
The more interesting bits are the records of the Directors CD is listed as being a director of
3 Co the 'lowest score' being Dales
Chur on the other hand is listed as being a Director of 29 Co's with only 1 rated above 50 (74)
1 between 25 and 50 the rest being below 25
The one who has the highest rating is SG Sports Management. Now I remember a link between
BFC and SG Sports but can't remember how.
Draw your own conclusions
Standard Report Full Report
00111019 : ROCHDALE ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL CLUB,LIMITED(THE)
Score
78
Risk
Below Average Risk
Credit Limit
£32,000
Credit Rating
£16,000
Monitor
Payment Rating
In the last 6 years there have been:
No CCJs have been issued.
Terms and Conditions
Privacy & Cookies |
Just to add to that.
Over 10 of Day's Company's have outstanding CCJ''s some leading to dissolution
Of the Co or are in the process of being dissolved (gone bust)
Looks like if you want someone to head up your demise Mr S.Day could be your man.
The modern day (no pun intended) Robin Hood. Robs from the poor to line his own
(Thats's Mr R Hoods) pockets | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:04 - Oct 23 with 8789 views | TTNYear |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:22 - Oct 23 by TalkingSutty |
Great post. I admire Flicker for what he achieved alongside Hilly but I think he is batting on a very sticky wicket at bury. His support for Day is admirable and he doesn't strike me as being naive because he's involved in his own family building business, so i don't buy that as an excuse.
Maybe everything is above board, Hilly is quick to jump on clubs who cheat the system by spending money they never had and he didn't mention any concerns or surprise regarding their spending last week. Maybe it's just us Dale fans who have misinterperated everything, the proof will be in the pudding. |
No TS he's not going to have a direct pop at his best mate. | |
| Anti-cliquism is the last refuge of the messageboard scoundrel - Copyright Dorset Dale productions |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:18 - Oct 23 with 8758 views | TalkingSutty |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:04 - Oct 23 by TTNYear |
No TS he's not going to have a direct pop at his best mate. |
Special Human Beings  | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:33 - Oct 24 with 8491 views | aleanddale |
How do Bolton service a debt of £180 000 000?
Who do they owe FFS to rack up that amount? | | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:48 - Oct 24 with 8471 views | macro |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:33 - Oct 24 by aleanddale |
How do Bolton service a debt of £180 000 000?
Who do they owe FFS to rack up that amount? |
I’m sure most of it is owed to the owner or ex owner |  | | |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:52 - Oct 24 with 8460 views | PDIDDY |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:33 - Oct 24 by aleanddale |
How do Bolton service a debt of £180 000 000?
Who do they owe FFS to rack up that amount? |
Life in dogdale must be dull, bury' Bolton and northamptons debts are the talk of this mong board. Get a full English on, get to the pub and enjoy your real derby day. My sausage is spitting fat all over my fiancées face at the minute, just need to butter the muffin and I'll munch . Off to shrews to watch our ressies today, more ccj's than players. #prawnsarniesagain |  |
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| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 10:57 - Oct 24 with 8376 views | BigKindo |
| tomorrow can't come quick enough on 08:52 - Oct 24 by PDIDDY |
Life in dogdale must be dull, bury' Bolton and northamptons debts are the talk of this mong board. Get a full English on, get to the pub and enjoy your real derby day. My sausage is spitting fat all over my fiancées face at the minute, just need to butter the muffin and I'll munch . Off to shrews to watch our ressies today, more ccj's than players. #prawnsarniesagain |
We are concerned that if HMRC takes proper action we won't have many derby matches left to which to look forward. | | | |
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