| Can we have another Centre Back please? 23:50 - Jul 5 with 20669 views | Dorse |
Starting to get a bit worried now, Chris. A big, nasty bar-steward who would tackle a concrete effigy of King Kong if it looked on-side in the box. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:17 - Jul 7 with 2456 views | baz_qpr |
I take the view that we probably start Harriman and if we need to loan someone in.
However if it is the case that we are playing 4-3-3 we will probably need a more attacking full back |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:19 - Jul 7 with 2448 views | simmo |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:17 - Jul 7 by baz_qpr |
I take the view that we probably start Harriman and if we need to loan someone in.
However if it is the case that we are playing 4-3-3 we will probably need a more attacking full back |
Harriman has played RWB as well as full back before, but not in the Championship or Premiership, so I am not sure if that counts. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:34 - Jul 7 with 2418 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:17 - Jul 7 by simmo |
Well comparable to the rest of the team would be Premiership and Championship. So if they have hundreds of appearances in leagues not including those, then they can't be considered to have experience. Is that right? [Post edited 7 Jul 2015 13:17]
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'Experienced to me would be 'has played at a level comparable to the rest of the team.'
Let's try addressing the actual statements I made rather than trying and failing to look for loopholes that don't exist shall we? [Post edited 7 Jul 2015 13:36]
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:37 - Jul 7 with 2400 views | ganjR |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:19 - Jul 7 by simmo |
Harriman has played RWB as well as full back before, but not in the Championship or Premiership, so I am not sure if that counts. |
I think he is more a RWB than a RB? Sounds like that's where he played at Luton and did well.
I want us to play a 4-3-3, but is their evidence of Ramsey wanting to play that way? We could just as easily set up as a 4-2-3-1 or 4-5-1 away from home.
I think the 'system' we will try and implement will be more about fluent, attacking football and high work rate than a particular formation.
May be completely wrong mind. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:52 - Jul 7 with 2376 views | QPR_Jim |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:34 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
'Experienced to me would be 'has played at a level comparable to the rest of the team.'
Let's try addressing the actual statements I made rather than trying and failing to look for loopholes that don't exist shall we? [Post edited 7 Jul 2015 13:36]
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"Two youth players in the same position at the same time? Sounds like a risk to me. Don't mind the second and third choices being unproven young players but thrusting them into starting roles sounds dangerous."
Well that's you actual statement, which probably has been addressed. You refer to them as youth players when Harriman is probably too old for that at 22. You refer to them as unproven when Harriman has proven to be a good full back at League 1 and 2 level.
You don't mention anything specifically about Championship experience until now but fail to remember that both Furlong and Harriman have Premiership experience, all be it one game for Harriman.
Finally you avoid answering QPunkR's question regarding whether you would ever have a youth team player coming through into the first team squad. By the sounds of it only after we've loaned him to a rival club in the same league. Seems like you want the finished article without having to put any effort into their development or take any of the risk in playing them. |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:56 - Jul 7 with 2340 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:07 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
I've said it a million times. Nedum Onohua cannot play right back. Outside of the fact that he will be third choice at the very least and therefore cannot be considered proper cover anywhere else, he does not possess enough of the attributes that are required of the position. Continually putting people in positions to fail like this is the definition of bad management.
Experienced to me would be 'has played at a level comparable to the rest of the team.' Neither of them have. |
Doesn't matter how many times you've said it - he can play right back, and has done, on and off, for years and years and years. In fact, I've seen him play there and completely mark Bale out of the game at LR in a superb performance.
Is it his best position? No. Can he play there and do a decent job in an emergency or over 5 or 6 games if two young players become IRRETRIEVABLY DAMAGED by losing to Preston? Of course he bloody can - don't be so wilfully ridiculous.
So now 'experience' is only relative? Charlie Austin had no experience at all of PL football this time last year. And a couple of years before that had no experience of champ football. And yet he was a success every time.
I do agree with you, though - in an ideal world we'd have a 26 year old right back, possibly in the Bradley Orr mould, who'd be sturdy and steady and reliable. But we don't. and we're hugely in debt. And we already have two people who can play RB, with a third who has EXPERIENCE in probably at least 60-odd games playing RB in the league above us. It's at times like this where you have to make do. |  |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:05 - Jul 7 with 2322 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:52 - Jul 7 by QPR_Jim |
"Two youth players in the same position at the same time? Sounds like a risk to me. Don't mind the second and third choices being unproven young players but thrusting them into starting roles sounds dangerous."
Well that's you actual statement, which probably has been addressed. You refer to them as youth players when Harriman is probably too old for that at 22. You refer to them as unproven when Harriman has proven to be a good full back at League 1 and 2 level.
You don't mention anything specifically about Championship experience until now but fail to remember that both Furlong and Harriman have Premiership experience, all be it one game for Harriman.
Finally you avoid answering QPunkR's question regarding whether you would ever have a youth team player coming through into the first team squad. By the sounds of it only after we've loaned him to a rival club in the same league. Seems like you want the finished article without having to put any effort into their development or take any of the risk in playing them. |
Youth graduate then, the point remains unchanged. 'Harriman has proven to be a good full back at League 1 and 2 level. ' That would make him unproven at championship level no? It's highly debatable as well considering he had to drop another division last year. 4 games between them is not premiership experience be serious.
'Finally you avoid answering QPunkR's question regarding whether you would ever have a youth team player coming through into the first team squad. By the sounds of it only after we've loaned him to a rival club in the same league. Seems like you want the finished article without having to put any effort into their development or take any of the risk in playing them.'
I avoided it because it was a ridiculous question as is your paragraph above. You've actually quoted me saying the complete opposite within the same post.
Integrity people! | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:06 - Jul 7 with 2317 views | WadR |
The club aren't in a financial position to sign "experienced" players for a position where they have 2 potentially good players.
I'm totally with Simmo and others on this, Harriman should be given half a season to assess whether he's good enough. Christ, look at the top 10 from last season's Championship and their rightbacks.
Bournemouth - Simon Francis - Less than 50 games in his career at Championship level prior to 2013. Charlton fans thought he was awful in League 1.
Watford - Juan Carlos Paredes - Played at World Cup 2014 but otherwise no experience outside of lesser S.American leagues
Norwich - Steven Whitaker - Probably the odd one out in this list, experienced at higher level
Middlesbrough - Ryan Frederiks - inexperienced loanee
Brentford - Moses Odebajo - Outstanding prospect but never played above league 1 and primarily a RW
Ipswich - Luke Chambers - out of position CB a la Onuoha
Wolves - Dom Iorfa - inexperienced Youth team product
Derby - Cyrus Christie - One season at champ level before this one
Blackburn - Alex Baptiste - primarily a CB
Birmingham City - Paul Caddis - Only 2nd season at Championship level | | | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:08 - Jul 7 with 2307 views | Northernr |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:12 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
To be considered experienced championship players? Absolutely. You'd have to be a complete moron to think otherwise.
Though I reckon you're hinting at the signings of those players to which I say please show me where I suggested not signing a player based on that.
I'll give you a hint to save you some time. I didn't. |
Is this how you converse with people away from the internet? |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:08 - Jul 7 with 2306 views | daveB |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:06 - Jul 7 by WadR |
The club aren't in a financial position to sign "experienced" players for a position where they have 2 potentially good players.
I'm totally with Simmo and others on this, Harriman should be given half a season to assess whether he's good enough. Christ, look at the top 10 from last season's Championship and their rightbacks.
Bournemouth - Simon Francis - Less than 50 games in his career at Championship level prior to 2013. Charlton fans thought he was awful in League 1.
Watford - Juan Carlos Paredes - Played at World Cup 2014 but otherwise no experience outside of lesser S.American leagues
Norwich - Steven Whitaker - Probably the odd one out in this list, experienced at higher level
Middlesbrough - Ryan Frederiks - inexperienced loanee
Brentford - Moses Odebajo - Outstanding prospect but never played above league 1 and primarily a RW
Ipswich - Luke Chambers - out of position CB a la Onuoha
Wolves - Dom Iorfa - inexperienced Youth team product
Derby - Cyrus Christie - One season at champ level before this one
Blackburn - Alex Baptiste - primarily a CB
Birmingham City - Paul Caddis - Only 2nd season at Championship level |
just playing the pair of them in pre season will give a good indication if they will be good enough |  | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:27 - Jul 7 with 2274 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 13:56 - Jul 7 by Antti_Heinola |
Doesn't matter how many times you've said it - he can play right back, and has done, on and off, for years and years and years. In fact, I've seen him play there and completely mark Bale out of the game at LR in a superb performance.
Is it his best position? No. Can he play there and do a decent job in an emergency or over 5 or 6 games if two young players become IRRETRIEVABLY DAMAGED by losing to Preston? Of course he bloody can - don't be so wilfully ridiculous.
So now 'experience' is only relative? Charlie Austin had no experience at all of PL football this time last year. And a couple of years before that had no experience of champ football. And yet he was a success every time.
I do agree with you, though - in an ideal world we'd have a 26 year old right back, possibly in the Bradley Orr mould, who'd be sturdy and steady and reliable. But we don't. and we're hugely in debt. And we already have two people who can play RB, with a third who has EXPERIENCE in probably at least 60-odd games playing RB in the league above us. It's at times like this where you have to make do. |
Wilfully ridiculous. You have been unable to name one trait of his that lends itself to being a full back. You have not reconciled the problem that he is already being used as a CB. You've used an example of a centreback being a good fullback because we sat back and defended and played to his strengths, that is not a appropriate sample size. You are being ridiculous sir.
Charlie Austin is not the rule he is the exception again a ridiculous sample size of one.
Now if you want to make a financial argument then that's something that I can get behind but I think we can afford it. I don't think a solid championship player most likely on a free will break the bank. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:29 - Jul 7 with 2260 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:08 - Jul 7 by Northernr |
Is this how you converse with people away from the internet? |
If they try to put words in my mouth. I'd be surprised if you can show me being rude to someone who hasn't done it first within the thread. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:30 - Jul 7 with 2250 views | QPR_Jim |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:05 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
Youth graduate then, the point remains unchanged. 'Harriman has proven to be a good full back at League 1 and 2 level. ' That would make him unproven at championship level no? It's highly debatable as well considering he had to drop another division last year. 4 games between them is not premiership experience be serious.
'Finally you avoid answering QPunkR's question regarding whether you would ever have a youth team player coming through into the first team squad. By the sounds of it only after we've loaned him to a rival club in the same league. Seems like you want the finished article without having to put any effort into their development or take any of the risk in playing them.'
I avoided it because it was a ridiculous question as is your paragraph above. You've actually quoted me saying the complete opposite within the same post.
Integrity people! |
Second or third choice is you giving them a chance? Should we even want a 22 year old with about 100 games as a professional footballer to be happy with being second choice? Offering the bench to players of Harrimans age with his level of experience is probably how we lost Ehmer. A 19 year old with 3 games under his belt should be happy with second choice or perhaps a loan, third choice and he may start thinking of leaving like Josh Laurent. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:38 - Jul 7 with 2233 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:30 - Jul 7 by QPR_Jim |
Second or third choice is you giving them a chance? Should we even want a 22 year old with about 100 games as a professional footballer to be happy with being second choice? Offering the bench to players of Harrimans age with his level of experience is probably how we lost Ehmer. A 19 year old with 3 games under his belt should be happy with second choice or perhaps a loan, third choice and he may start thinking of leaving like Josh Laurent. |
I also clearly stated that you can install someone as starter if you have a reliable back up.
But yes making someone your second choice is giving them a chance. They'll play 25 games.
We lost Ehmer by not bringing him on and shoving square pegs into round holes rather than play him. He was 5th choice at best. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:39 - Jul 7 with 2225 views | simmo |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:30 - Jul 7 by QPR_Jim |
Second or third choice is you giving them a chance? Should we even want a 22 year old with about 100 games as a professional footballer to be happy with being second choice? Offering the bench to players of Harrimans age with his level of experience is probably how we lost Ehmer. A 19 year old with 3 games under his belt should be happy with second choice or perhaps a loan, third choice and he may start thinking of leaving like Josh Laurent. |
'with his level of experience'
Wrong type of experience, mate. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:31 - Jul 7 with 2181 views | Northernr |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:29 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
If they try to put words in my mouth. I'd be surprised if you can show me being rude to someone who hasn't done it first within the thread. |
I'm running out of people on here you haven't been rude to. | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:32 - Jul 7 with 2174 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:31 - Jul 7 by Northernr |
I'm running out of people on here you haven't been rude to. |
First of all it's about 4 people and as I said, you'll struggle to find me doing it first. [Post edited 7 Jul 2015 15:41]
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:53 - Jul 7 with 2123 views | QPR_Jim |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 14:38 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
I also clearly stated that you can install someone as starter if you have a reliable back up.
But yes making someone your second choice is giving them a chance. They'll play 25 games.
We lost Ehmer by not bringing him on and shoving square pegs into round holes rather than play him. He was 5th choice at best. |
So second choice gets 25 games, who you planning for first choice Matthew Rose? | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:59 - Jul 7 with 2108 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:53 - Jul 7 by QPR_Jim |
So second choice gets 25 games, who you planning for first choice Matthew Rose? |
Pretty standard number of games for a back up. Not all starts of course. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:08 - Jul 7 with 2085 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:06 - Jul 7 by PeterHucker |
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It's quite clearly not me complaining. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:18 - Jul 7 with 2069 views | Northernr |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 15:59 - Jul 7 by Mvpeter |
Pretty standard number of games for a back up. Not all starts of course. |
In QPR's last Championship campaign we only had 15 players who got over 25 league appearances in total. We only had seven who made more than 25 league starts (Simpson, Hill, Green, Dunne, Barton, Austin, BAE) | | | |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:24 - Jul 7 with 2036 views | Mvpeter |
| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:18 - Jul 7 by Northernr |
In QPR's last Championship campaign we only had 15 players who got over 25 league appearances in total. We only had seven who made more than 25 league starts (Simpson, Hill, Green, Dunne, Barton, Austin, BAE) |
Fair enough. 20 is probably more accurate though that is 4 of the 10 that achieved that and we used a silly amount of players that year. | |
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| Can we have another Centre Back please? on 16:53 - Jul 7 with 1993 views | PurleyHoop |
Mancienne? | | | |
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