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N.B. In my opinion, it's not what's "wrong" with Christianity, but rather what's wrong with certain dismissive analyses of Christianity.
Everything that's "wrong" with Christianity is not about Christ and his teaching, but is about matters tangential to his teaching.
First and foremost, the Old Testament. Eliminate all of it and all of the hate-filled attacks on the thousands of sometimes imaginary and sometimes at least partly imaginary, and this would be a quieter place, and a quieter message board.
Second, eliminate all of the mythical elements like angels singing on high, and three wise men, and immaculate conception, and virgin birth, etc, etc, etc.
Third, eliminate all of the happy horsesh!t that goes on within the formalized churches -- especially the Catholic Church -- everything from fanciful non-Biblical embellishments and sometimes exceedingly silly rules and dogma, to long-past historical peccadilloes and worse, long-past political, economic, and military outrages.
Fourth, eliminate all of the excesses in wealth, ostentatious wealth, and pseudo regal trappings.
Fifth, do not be put off by Christ's speaking of Heaven and Hell, and the Father, but remember that these are images fully understood by his unsophisticated audience as images of one kind or another, and are not granite-hard reality.
Not one of the things I describe above has anything significant to do with either Christ or his teachings. When you ignore or eliminate all of those things, you will have the freedom to get to the heart of his teaching.
Although you can be richly rewarded by searching through the New Testament, reading all of the red typeface (which is a standard indication of the words of Christ), you really need go no further than the Sermon on the Mount, where, in essence, he gives an explication of The Ten Commandments, which alone give anyone who wants it a guide to a moral life.
The "pixies and fairies" so beloved of those who wish to denigrate either the Bible, religion itself, or just Christianity, were put in there as a means of explaining astoundingly complex concepts to people who were completely ill-equipped to understand them without these "teaching aids."
Anyone who is, or pretends to be, intelligent and well-read, should know to move immediately beyond these images and get to the heart of the teaching.
I not only admit, but trumpet aloud, the fact that it is far too easy to be dismissive based on tangentials, and difficult to get past them to the meaning, and moreover sometimes difficult beyond some persons' intellectual capacity.
In my opinion, it's better simply to not get involved in these discussions than to try to fight against the closed mind, and especially the mind that is closed because of non-essential and inconsequential side issues.
What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 19:31 - Aug 8 by Cygnus
It s you is nt it?
Dailew or Dieloo? which one is it then?
Do you not find the idea that someone would invent two accounts, give loads of people an up arrow with one account and then give the same people a down arrow with another account a little bonkers?
-2
What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 19:40 - Aug 8 with 1714 views
What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 19:38 - Aug 8 by DieLoo
Do you not find the idea that someone would invent two accounts, give loads of people an up arrow with one account and then give the same people a down arrow with another account a little bonkers?
What's "wrong" with Christianity? on 18:17 - Aug 8 by C_jack
Why are you struggling to understand that the two are not mutually exclusive? People can take positives from both religion, and their family and friends, they are not in competition with one another.
Then there's family and friends who don't try to murder you if you're of a different mindset to them.
It's the religious extremism that allows these assh-les to go around killing families because they're of a different religion. And people here claim atheists are aggressive?
Competition? More like a slaughter. It is my view that religion and long lasting peace are incompatible.
[Post edited 8 Aug 2014 22:42]
And we're Swaaaaanseeeea Ciiiityyyy! Swaaaansseeeaaa Ciiiityyy F C!
We're not necessarily the greatest team in football, the world has ever seen (but we're possibly the most honest and resilient).
- On behalf of The Campaign For Realistic Crowd Chanting
Then there's family and friends who don't try to murder you if you're of a different mindset to them.
It's the religious extremism that allows these assh-les to go around killing families because they're of a different religion. And people here claim atheists are aggressive?
Competition? More like a slaughter. It is my view that religion and long lasting peace are incompatible.
[Post edited 8 Aug 2014 22:42]
So you can't answer the question, yet again.
You have a problem in distinguishing between the small minority of extremists who are present in all beliefs, including Atheism, and the majority of others, be it Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Mormons, that live their lives peacefully without commuting the heinous acts that you portray as the norm.
You have a problem in distinguishing between the small minority of extremists who are present in all beliefs, including Atheism, and the majority of others, be it Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Mormons, that live their lives peacefully without commuting the heinous acts that you portray as the norm.
You Sir, are nothing more than a bigot.
Thanks for the opinion that I'm a bigot. i'll assume you don't know what it means.
If you take the time to read through this very long thread, you will see I've answered many questions here, including the one you accuse me at being a bigot over.
A small minority you say? It was this small minority that destroy lives on a daily basis through suicide bombings, massacres, and many other things that happen on a daily basis in the name of religion.
I assume you watch the news and current events - and no I don't mean through rags like The Sun, but REAL news? Are you aware of the many people who have died when going about their daily lives in busy shopping districts as the result of suicide bombings in Iraq, of the fear people have to go through in Afghanistan? Or what about London? Or anywhere else in the world where we are affected by this "minority" who do their dirty work in the name of their 'loving' gods. And no, this isn't a bash just against Muslims. For instance, does anyone here remember the Aum Shinrikyo attack on the Tokyo subway which left 13 people dead as a result of Sarin nerve agent?
So when you claim I am a bigot for attacking a minority, you may also want to remember who runs this country! Do you agree with assisted suicide? Well the church doesn't, and it's the church that's most vocal in the debate - and has influence within our law making establishments such as the House Of Lords. Or how about stem cell research which can (and is proven to work) help many thousands of people with all manner of disabilities, ailments and life threatening injuries.
Whereas you claim it's a small 'minority', they seem to be the ones doing the most damage in the name of their all loving, all caring god. You do not need to be a suicide bomber to destroy lives, as simply pushing your religious beliefs on to a populace will suffice.
So, let's look at the other side of the coin, a world without religion. Being someone who's really thought about this in the past (and I mean really concentrated and reviewed a variety of paths) - I can safely and reasonably state that humanity has been set back drastically by religion. The Dark Ages (between the 5th Century and the 15th Century in Europe), was a period where intellectuals were forced underground by the religious establishments and governing leaders. Thinking was a big no, punishable by death. As a result, humanity's progress stalled and stagnated. Yet, if we did not have the repressive religious regime aggressively attacking humanity's natural ability to think, it's reasonable to assume we'd be considerably more advanced than we are over the 10 centuries that had passed due to the dark ages. Who's to say we wouldn't have cured cancer and aids long before now? But we will never know if this will be the case, due to the 'minority'.
So considering I as an atheist am being attacked for apparently "pushing" my views on to others, why do churches and other religions buildings need to advertise ? Why do they need money so badly to buy new homes and swimming pools for the more popular faith healers? Why does it pray on the young, vulnerable and scared? It's simple - it's a shady business run on extorting money from the masses. Remind me again how much value is being sat on in the Vatican? (here's a clue - it's enough to eradicate third world debt five times over!). And what is the purpose of the Vatican? (Here's another clue - it's a visual seat of power and an unnecessary one at that).
This raises questions - As I've been saying throughout this thread - Humanity has evolved. We've learned many things and have accute understanding of people, the world and the universe around us. So why do we still need religion to provide answers - when it does not? Answers are tangible responses to your questions, whereas a call to god is answering yourself. Is it fair to assume that all of mankind's achievements are the result of a god, or mankind? Is it fair to insinuate or otherwise push a belief on to children who have not yet gained the ability to fully comprehend the subject matter?
And then answer this question - If a person came up to you in the street and claimed to be the son of god before performing a little street magic, would you become a believer and spend your life in the worship of "Mark The Magician"? Or in your modern understanding of the world, would you think the guy has issues, but his tricks are okay? This is afterall what differentiates us to more primitive earlier man - who did not have the level of understanding you may have today.
Another thing to consider, lives that could be saved. Unable to accept blood transfusions in life threatening cases, and a refusal to provide organs or blood for those who need it (even after death of the donor).... yup! That's religion for you!
We were born with brains - yet religion subscribes that we do not use these? Sound suspect?
[Post edited 9 Aug 2014 0:25]
And we're Swaaaaanseeeea Ciiiityyyy! Swaaaansseeeaaa Ciiiityyy F C!
We're not necessarily the greatest team in football, the world has ever seen (but we're possibly the most honest and resilient).
- On behalf of The Campaign For Realistic Crowd Chanting
Thanks for the opinion that I'm a bigot. i'll assume you don't know what it means.
If you take the time to read through this very long thread, you will see I've answered many questions here, including the one you accuse me at being a bigot over.
A small minority you say? It was this small minority that destroy lives on a daily basis through suicide bombings, massacres, and many other things that happen on a daily basis in the name of religion.
I assume you watch the news and current events - and no I don't mean through rags like The Sun, but REAL news? Are you aware of the many people who have died when going about their daily lives in busy shopping districts as the result of suicide bombings in Iraq, of the fear people have to go through in Afghanistan? Or what about London? Or anywhere else in the world where we are affected by this "minority" who do their dirty work in the name of their 'loving' gods. And no, this isn't a bash just against Muslims. For instance, does anyone here remember the Aum Shinrikyo attack on the Tokyo subway which left 13 people dead as a result of Sarin nerve agent?
So when you claim I am a bigot for attacking a minority, you may also want to remember who runs this country! Do you agree with assisted suicide? Well the church doesn't, and it's the church that's most vocal in the debate - and has influence within our law making establishments such as the House Of Lords. Or how about stem cell research which can (and is proven to work) help many thousands of people with all manner of disabilities, ailments and life threatening injuries.
Whereas you claim it's a small 'minority', they seem to be the ones doing the most damage in the name of their all loving, all caring god. You do not need to be a suicide bomber to destroy lives, as simply pushing your religious beliefs on to a populace will suffice.
So, let's look at the other side of the coin, a world without religion. Being someone who's really thought about this in the past (and I mean really concentrated and reviewed a variety of paths) - I can safely and reasonably state that humanity has been set back drastically by religion. The Dark Ages (between the 5th Century and the 15th Century in Europe), was a period where intellectuals were forced underground by the religious establishments and governing leaders. Thinking was a big no, punishable by death. As a result, humanity's progress stalled and stagnated. Yet, if we did not have the repressive religious regime aggressively attacking humanity's natural ability to think, it's reasonable to assume we'd be considerably more advanced than we are over the 10 centuries that had passed due to the dark ages. Who's to say we wouldn't have cured cancer and aids long before now? But we will never know if this will be the case, due to the 'minority'.
So considering I as an atheist am being attacked for apparently "pushing" my views on to others, why do churches and other religions buildings need to advertise ? Why do they need money so badly to buy new homes and swimming pools for the more popular faith healers? Why does it pray on the young, vulnerable and scared? It's simple - it's a shady business run on extorting money from the masses. Remind me again how much value is being sat on in the Vatican? (here's a clue - it's enough to eradicate third world debt five times over!). And what is the purpose of the Vatican? (Here's another clue - it's a visual seat of power and an unnecessary one at that).
This raises questions - As I've been saying throughout this thread - Humanity has evolved. We've learned many things and have accute understanding of people, the world and the universe around us. So why do we still need religion to provide answers - when it does not? Answers are tangible responses to your questions, whereas a call to god is answering yourself. Is it fair to assume that all of mankind's achievements are the result of a god, or mankind? Is it fair to insinuate or otherwise push a belief on to children who have not yet gained the ability to fully comprehend the subject matter?
And then answer this question - If a person came up to you in the street and claimed to be the son of god before performing a little street magic, would you become a believer and spend your life in the worship of "Mark The Magician"? Or in your modern understanding of the world, would you think the guy has issues, but his tricks are okay? This is afterall what differentiates us to more primitive earlier man - who did not have the level of understanding you may have today.
Another thing to consider, lives that could be saved. Unable to accept blood transfusions in life threatening cases, and a refusal to provide organs or blood for those who need it (even after death of the donor).... yup! That's religion for you!
We were born with brains - yet religion subscribes that we do not use these? Sound suspect?
[Post edited 9 Aug 2014 0:25]
"God gave us our brains, the apparatus we need for making sound judgments, and he doesn’t want them standing idle."
I'm sure I was born with mine. You sure he give one to you?
And we're Swaaaaanseeeea Ciiiityyyy! Swaaaansseeeaaa Ciiiityyy F C!
We're not necessarily the greatest team in football, the world has ever seen (but we're possibly the most honest and resilient).
- On behalf of The Campaign For Realistic Crowd Chanting
Its almost as pathetic as someone posting pictures of bookshelves to prove their credentials.
Ah... a great first post... and totally legit too right! First post on a thread already populated by people using other identities to try and make their point appear more valid.
I also see what you did there... your username. I've spent enough time in Australia and New Zealand to realise your slang name means Dishonest and Unreliable. Like your bookshelf analogy - after you plant one vertically on the wall to "prove your credentials".
And we're Swaaaaanseeeea Ciiiityyyy! Swaaaansseeeaaa Ciiiityyy F C!
We're not necessarily the greatest team in football, the world has ever seen (but we're possibly the most honest and resilient).
- On behalf of The Campaign For Realistic Crowd Chanting
Thanks for the opinion that I'm a bigot. i'll assume you don't know what it means.
If you take the time to read through this very long thread, you will see I've answered many questions here, including the one you accuse me at being a bigot over.
A small minority you say? It was this small minority that destroy lives on a daily basis through suicide bombings, massacres, and many other things that happen on a daily basis in the name of religion.
I assume you watch the news and current events - and no I don't mean through rags like The Sun, but REAL news? Are you aware of the many people who have died when going about their daily lives in busy shopping districts as the result of suicide bombings in Iraq, of the fear people have to go through in Afghanistan? Or what about London? Or anywhere else in the world where we are affected by this "minority" who do their dirty work in the name of their 'loving' gods. And no, this isn't a bash just against Muslims. For instance, does anyone here remember the Aum Shinrikyo attack on the Tokyo subway which left 13 people dead as a result of Sarin nerve agent?
So when you claim I am a bigot for attacking a minority, you may also want to remember who runs this country! Do you agree with assisted suicide? Well the church doesn't, and it's the church that's most vocal in the debate - and has influence within our law making establishments such as the House Of Lords. Or how about stem cell research which can (and is proven to work) help many thousands of people with all manner of disabilities, ailments and life threatening injuries.
Whereas you claim it's a small 'minority', they seem to be the ones doing the most damage in the name of their all loving, all caring god. You do not need to be a suicide bomber to destroy lives, as simply pushing your religious beliefs on to a populace will suffice.
So, let's look at the other side of the coin, a world without religion. Being someone who's really thought about this in the past (and I mean really concentrated and reviewed a variety of paths) - I can safely and reasonably state that humanity has been set back drastically by religion. The Dark Ages (between the 5th Century and the 15th Century in Europe), was a period where intellectuals were forced underground by the religious establishments and governing leaders. Thinking was a big no, punishable by death. As a result, humanity's progress stalled and stagnated. Yet, if we did not have the repressive religious regime aggressively attacking humanity's natural ability to think, it's reasonable to assume we'd be considerably more advanced than we are over the 10 centuries that had passed due to the dark ages. Who's to say we wouldn't have cured cancer and aids long before now? But we will never know if this will be the case, due to the 'minority'.
So considering I as an atheist am being attacked for apparently "pushing" my views on to others, why do churches and other religions buildings need to advertise ? Why do they need money so badly to buy new homes and swimming pools for the more popular faith healers? Why does it pray on the young, vulnerable and scared? It's simple - it's a shady business run on extorting money from the masses. Remind me again how much value is being sat on in the Vatican? (here's a clue - it's enough to eradicate third world debt five times over!). And what is the purpose of the Vatican? (Here's another clue - it's a visual seat of power and an unnecessary one at that).
This raises questions - As I've been saying throughout this thread - Humanity has evolved. We've learned many things and have accute understanding of people, the world and the universe around us. So why do we still need religion to provide answers - when it does not? Answers are tangible responses to your questions, whereas a call to god is answering yourself. Is it fair to assume that all of mankind's achievements are the result of a god, or mankind? Is it fair to insinuate or otherwise push a belief on to children who have not yet gained the ability to fully comprehend the subject matter?
And then answer this question - If a person came up to you in the street and claimed to be the son of god before performing a little street magic, would you become a believer and spend your life in the worship of "Mark The Magician"? Or in your modern understanding of the world, would you think the guy has issues, but his tricks are okay? This is afterall what differentiates us to more primitive earlier man - who did not have the level of understanding you may have today.
Another thing to consider, lives that could be saved. Unable to accept blood transfusions in life threatening cases, and a refusal to provide organs or blood for those who need it (even after death of the donor).... yup! That's religion for you!
We were born with brains - yet religion subscribes that we do not use these? Sound suspect?
[Post edited 9 Aug 2014 0:25]
Yet more pretentious claptrap to wade through, full of assumption (as you point out yourself), glorious.
Daily basis? Where is today's suicide bomb and massacre? Or shall we wait for everyone to finish work first?
Go on then, tell us how many people have died going about their daily lives in London because of religion. You won't trouble 100, including 7/7.
Why should the Church agree with assisted suicide? that's not their belief, the same with many other non-religious people in society. Do you have an issue with freedom of belief/speech?
Science has no more proof on it's 'facts' than religion, they are two separate belief systems. You cannot prove that a scientist is right when he says the earth is 5 billion years old and that a pastor is wrong when he says that it was created in 7 days.
As for your belief that if it wasn't for religion, then this planet would be utopian, where no diseases/bad things ever happened, that is more delusional than any preacher that claims that we all end up in the perfect realm.
Yet more pretentious claptrap to wade through, full of assumption (as you point out yourself), glorious.
Daily basis? Where is today's suicide bomb and massacre? Or shall we wait for everyone to finish work first?
Go on then, tell us how many people have died going about their daily lives in London because of religion. You won't trouble 100, including 7/7.
Why should the Church agree with assisted suicide? that's not their belief, the same with many other non-religious people in society. Do you have an issue with freedom of belief/speech?
Science has no more proof on it's 'facts' than religion, they are two separate belief systems. You cannot prove that a scientist is right when he says the earth is 5 billion years old and that a pastor is wrong when he says that it was created in 7 days.
As for your belief that if it wasn't for religion, then this planet would be utopian, where no diseases/bad things ever happened, that is more delusional than any preacher that claims that we all end up in the perfect realm.
I'll assume you are naturally stupid or trolling now.
Do I have an issue with freedom of belief or speech? The church does as I've explained to you. Why should people who no longer wish to live a life of pain and misery when they are terminally ill, be forced to die slowly and in a way they don't wish to? BECAUSE THE CHURCH WANTS YOU TO! Why is there a shortage of much needed organs and blood, vital to our daily need? BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST CERTAIN BELIEFS TO GIVE (Which in turn will save lives!!!).
So before you accuse me of trampling on the toes of freedom - remember what religion has done to cut down our progress, and even today play their games with society and the cost of people who need help.
And your comment on Science having no more proof than religion is a ridiculous statement to make! Science is based on fact, meaning it is not a 'faith' system as you would find with religion! It is based on REAL WORLD EVIDENCE! Your claims make you appear foolish!
If I was to claim I had come across a talking trifle who offered me eternal life after I die, and I subsequently write a book on my experience - I would have as much supporting evidence to support this being true as the Bible does! Crazy right?!!
And did I claim there would be no disease on the planet without religion? If you can't argue your point, you appear to make up statements and comments to 'fit in' and give your argument the appearance of legitimacy. So who is delusional here.
Keep your eyes shut pal - the truth seems to scare the crap out of you!
And we're Swaaaaanseeeea Ciiiityyyy! Swaaaansseeeaaa Ciiiityyy F C!
We're not necessarily the greatest team in football, the world has ever seen (but we're possibly the most honest and resilient).
- On behalf of The Campaign For Realistic Crowd Chanting
I'll assume you are naturally stupid or trolling now.
Do I have an issue with freedom of belief or speech? The church does as I've explained to you. Why should people who no longer wish to live a life of pain and misery when they are terminally ill, be forced to die slowly and in a way they don't wish to? BECAUSE THE CHURCH WANTS YOU TO! Why is there a shortage of much needed organs and blood, vital to our daily need? BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST CERTAIN BELIEFS TO GIVE (Which in turn will save lives!!!).
So before you accuse me of trampling on the toes of freedom - remember what religion has done to cut down our progress, and even today play their games with society and the cost of people who need help.
And your comment on Science having no more proof than religion is a ridiculous statement to make! Science is based on fact, meaning it is not a 'faith' system as you would find with religion! It is based on REAL WORLD EVIDENCE! Your claims make you appear foolish!
If I was to claim I had come across a talking trifle who offered me eternal life after I die, and I subsequently write a book on my experience - I would have as much supporting evidence to support this being true as the Bible does! Crazy right?!!
And did I claim there would be no disease on the planet without religion? If you can't argue your point, you appear to make up statements and comments to 'fit in' and give your argument the appearance of legitimacy. So who is delusional here.
Keep your eyes shut pal - the truth seems to scare the crap out of you!
As opposed to yourself conveniently forgetting the swiss cheese sized holes in your argument. How many people have died in London going about their daily business? I'm waiting. Where is todays daily suicide bomb? ..waiting.
Where is the evidence to prove the Big Bang? Of course there is none, but Scientists 'believe' that they are correct in their theories.
As opposed to yourself conveniently forgetting the swiss cheese sized holes in your argument. How many people have died in London going about their daily business? I'm waiting. Where is todays daily suicide bomb? ..waiting.
Where is the evidence to prove the Big Bang? Of course there is none, but Scientists 'believe' that they are correct in their theories.
[Post edited 9 Aug 2014 12:12]
ffs. Please don't ever have kids.
The answer to your question is too many! Remember the terrorist attacks in London, and the savage murder of one of our brave soldiers? Then there are others who have been victim to honour killings, and there are more. Just open your eyes and not wait for the answers to fall in to your lap!
And where is the evidence of the big bang? You are evidence of the BIg Bang. Without the big bang you would not exist. You are made out of particles found within the depths of space. It's just a shame you just wish to communicate from Uranus though.
These two links took me approximately 7 seconds from typing and searching to locate. If you really wanted an answer - I suspect you would have done this already though right?!
And we're Swaaaaanseeeea Ciiiityyyy! Swaaaansseeeaaa Ciiiityyy F C!
We're not necessarily the greatest team in football, the world has ever seen (but we're possibly the most honest and resilient).
- On behalf of The Campaign For Realistic Crowd Chanting
Yet more pretentious claptrap to wade through, full of assumption (as you point out yourself), glorious.
Daily basis? Where is today's suicide bomb and massacre? Or shall we wait for everyone to finish work first?
Go on then, tell us how many people have died going about their daily lives in London because of religion. You won't trouble 100, including 7/7.
Why should the Church agree with assisted suicide? that's not their belief, the same with many other non-religious people in society. Do you have an issue with freedom of belief/speech?
Science has no more proof on it's 'facts' than religion, they are two separate belief systems. You cannot prove that a scientist is right when he says the earth is 5 billion years old and that a pastor is wrong when he says that it was created in 7 days.
As for your belief that if it wasn't for religion, then this planet would be utopian, where no diseases/bad things ever happened, that is more delusional than any preacher that claims that we all end up in the perfect realm.
"Science has no more proof on it's 'facts' than religion, they are two separate belief systems. You cannot prove that a scientist is right when he says the earth is 5 billion years old and that a pastor is wrong when he says that it was created in 7 days. "
Really? Are you sure about that one? Are you sure that there isn't an abundance of evidence gathered over many, many years from many, many different sources that proves that earth is approx. 4.6 billion years old?
Or are you implying that the fields of geology, paleontology and radiometric dating methods with tiny margins of error are at best equal to blind faith or are guesses or opinions?
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
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