| Is it last season again? 16:59 - Aug 24 with 13434 views | GhanaDale |
I'm sorry, but from someone who was at the match that was utter dogshite
9 players went missing today, only credit goes to Lancashire and Henderson but otherwise that was a pile of steaming turd. Not impressed! |  |
| www.facebook.com/projectaura |
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| Is it last season again? on 20:49 - Aug 25 with 3327 views | AtThePeake |
| Is it last season again? on 20:47 - Aug 25 by Ralphs12 |
How did Vidal do?
Thought it was a bit strange to drop Raff out of the side and put him in myself. |
Was OK. Got into decent positions a couple of times going forward but crossed poorly. Agreed that it was a strange decision. |  |
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| Is it last season again? on 20:51 - Aug 25 with 3319 views | 442Dale |
| Is it last season again? on 20:49 - Aug 25 by AtThePeake |
Was OK. Got into decent positions a couple of times going forward but crossed poorly. Agreed that it was a strange decision. |
The only surprise was him jumping over Bennett in the pecking order, but that's probably to do with having a full pre season and the mention elsewhere of Hill saying he did well in a closed-doors game.
Rafferty might not be seen much from here on in. |  |
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| Is it last season again? on 13:55 - Aug 26 with 3179 views | TomRAFC |
| Is it last season again? on 19:38 - Aug 25 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Agree,,,,,sod the defence it's fine and with cover around.
Upfront a proven striker would be great(in fact someone just like Bobby Grant) |
i think the boat has probably sailed on getting a top notch permanent signing.
I would like to see us try to ambitious loan bids for someone like tom eaves. |  |
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| Is it last season again? on 20:39 - Aug 26 with 3030 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Is it last season again? on 17:40 - Aug 24 by ColDale |
We've a style of play which relies on two fellas up front, running the opposition defence into submission. With one missing, it was going to be hard to adapt. Wasn't at the game but you could tell it was a below par performance. That said, certainly from the point Tutte went off, it sounded like we controlled the game and could well have snatched it.
If its true as reported that Tutte had a bit of a dummy spit when he went off (heard off two different sources), then he's blown it. He's been given a chance due to the Cav suspension and he's not grabbed it, and I'm sure he'll be told after the game about how he should never have been taken off, the fact remains we played significantly better after his withdrawal. Hill will forgive the dummy spit but only when its earned.
I don't know whether Hill's built up too much expectation or whether people want things too soon, but last time he was here, his record season by season was: avoid relegation to a top half finish, play offs, play offs, automatic promotion, top half of League One. It's as if there should be a guaranteed leap from season one to season four. We weren't a perfect side in his second season last time but we are leap years from that nervy second half at Exeter where the results were coming in from elsewhere.
We've lost three games now - all away. Two of them by own goals and another by a penalty, and five games in Chesterfield remain the only side to score against us in open play (and we're still the only side to take a point off them this season).
The bigger picture is we are getting it right and surely Hill has built up enough trust over the years that we don't go OTT over one defeat in Devon. |
I didn't go to the Doncaster game, where apparently he played well. So, I went to the Chesterfield game thinking right go on Tutte have me eating my words. Everything was set up, he bravely grabbed the ball for the second penalty and finished it well. Go on lad. You're in a bit of form and you've bagged - rip the you know what out of this game.
Alas no, despite everything being in place for him, I saw nothing to suggest that Cav will not walk straight back into the team or that he will threaten Lund's position. The same old same old. An inability to impose himself on the game (in terms of possession) leading him to resort to chasing everything without actually making many interceptions or breaking up play. What was apparent was that the ratcheting up of quality in the team made his passing game look even more limited. It appears that Saturday's game sounds the same. If we looked better with Hery in the team then Hill may opt for him against Oxford. His chances are running out.
For me, he needs to work out what it is he does well (other than score goals), work on it and do it on a far, far more consistent basis. He's not going to be scoring goals every week and thus needs more to his game. Chasing, without much end result, isn't enough!!
Other than goals in splurges, I struggle to see his value. Cav is better at holding, tackling and even passing, Lund is better at playmaking and tackling. If Hery proves to be more effective he really is struggling. Usual apologies to all his very loyal supporters out there but I really don't think he has enough quality. I only ask that there is no ridiculous Grimes-esque excuses for him. He's better in a 442, 352, a north-easterly wind, with a ten-foot holding midfielder behind him, if we built the team around him etc, etc.
Just an opinion like. [Post edited 26 Aug 2013 20:41]
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| Is it last season again? on 21:00 - Aug 26 with 2996 views | AtThePeake |
| Is it last season again? on 20:39 - Aug 26 by BigDaveMyCock |
I didn't go to the Doncaster game, where apparently he played well. So, I went to the Chesterfield game thinking right go on Tutte have me eating my words. Everything was set up, he bravely grabbed the ball for the second penalty and finished it well. Go on lad. You're in a bit of form and you've bagged - rip the you know what out of this game.
Alas no, despite everything being in place for him, I saw nothing to suggest that Cav will not walk straight back into the team or that he will threaten Lund's position. The same old same old. An inability to impose himself on the game (in terms of possession) leading him to resort to chasing everything without actually making many interceptions or breaking up play. What was apparent was that the ratcheting up of quality in the team made his passing game look even more limited. It appears that Saturday's game sounds the same. If we looked better with Hery in the team then Hill may opt for him against Oxford. His chances are running out.
For me, he needs to work out what it is he does well (other than score goals), work on it and do it on a far, far more consistent basis. He's not going to be scoring goals every week and thus needs more to his game. Chasing, without much end result, isn't enough!!
Other than goals in splurges, I struggle to see his value. Cav is better at holding, tackling and even passing, Lund is better at playmaking and tackling. If Hery proves to be more effective he really is struggling. Usual apologies to all his very loyal supporters out there but I really don't think he has enough quality. I only ask that there is no ridiculous Grimes-esque excuses for him. He's better in a 442, 352, a north-easterly wind, with a ten-foot holding midfielder behind him, if we built the team around him etc, etc.
Just an opinion like. [Post edited 26 Aug 2013 20:41]
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Starting to come round to your way of thinking re: Tutte BDMC.
I think my support of him was born around the percentage of last season's games that I saw being at the start of the season before I headed back to Uni, when he clearly had his best patch of form. | |
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| Is it last season again? on 21:05 - Aug 26 with 2986 views | TVOS1907 |
| Is it last season again? on 21:00 - Aug 26 by AtThePeake |
Starting to come round to your way of thinking re: Tutte BDMC.
I think my support of him was born around the percentage of last season's games that I saw being at the start of the season before I headed back to Uni, when he clearly had his best patch of form. |
http://www.pasoti.co.uk/talk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=78791 |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Is it last season again? on 21:08 - Aug 26 with 2985 views | AtThePeake |
It was seriously pathetic, can imagine I'd have found it as amusing as they did had it been an opposition player. | |
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| Is it last season again? on 21:13 - Aug 26 with 2982 views | 49thseason |
For what its worth, I suspect the problem is partially to do with the return of KH, I dont know how well they got on in his first loan spell at Spotland but Tutte did go back to City fairly unexpectedly if memory serves,
I just wonder why he signed a new deal during the summer if he wasn't sure about KH and if KH wasn't sure about him?
Certainly the arrival of Lund has upset the apple cart somewhat and put Tutte on the bench when Cav is fit / available, I also think the emergence of Jamie Allen has given KH other options he perhaps didn't expect to have. God knows where Tutte would be in the pecking order if JK hadn't left.
My only other thought is that KH was dubious about Cav and felt he needed Tutte as cover.
All in all something isn't right with the lad's head at the moment and its looking more likely that his future lies somewhere else. Pity as as I believe he has talent. |  | | |
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| Is it last season again? on 21:14 - Aug 26 with 2980 views | TVOS1907 |
| Is it last season again? on 21:08 - Aug 26 by AtThePeake |
It was seriously pathetic, can imagine I'd have found it as amusing as they did had it been an opposition player. |
Aye, I thought it was ridiculous and I hope Hill noticed. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Is it last season again? on 21:27 - Aug 26 with 2964 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Is it last season again? on 21:00 - Aug 26 by AtThePeake |
Starting to come round to your way of thinking re: Tutte BDMC.
I think my support of him was born around the percentage of last season's games that I saw being at the start of the season before I headed back to Uni, when he clearly had his best patch of form. |
It's frustrating because, as you point out, he has reached a standard for spells. Just not enough to be considered reliable.
Might be a bit controversial this, but I think if he's going to have any sort of prolonged league career he may have to change positions. I think he could be a right-back/wing-back if he wished. I think he has the requisite energy/fitness and stamina for the position and it's not a position which requires as much possession skills as a modern day central-midfielder. He played on the right a couple of times last season, albeit more advanced, and, although he's certainly no Henderson and Done, he looked competent from a defensive point of view. He looked more comfortable with the extra space he had out wide rather than the hustle and bustle of the middle where he more often than not seems to get lost in it all.
[Post edited 26 Aug 2013 21:32]
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| Is it last season again? on 22:06 - Aug 26 with 2934 views | 442Dale |
| Is it last season again? on 21:13 - Aug 26 by 49thseason |
For what its worth, I suspect the problem is partially to do with the return of KH, I dont know how well they got on in his first loan spell at Spotland but Tutte did go back to City fairly unexpectedly if memory serves,
I just wonder why he signed a new deal during the summer if he wasn't sure about KH and if KH wasn't sure about him?
Certainly the arrival of Lund has upset the apple cart somewhat and put Tutte on the bench when Cav is fit / available, I also think the emergence of Jamie Allen has given KH other options he perhaps didn't expect to have. God knows where Tutte would be in the pecking order if JK hadn't left.
My only other thought is that KH was dubious about Cav and felt he needed Tutte as cover.
All in all something isn't right with the lad's head at the moment and its looking more likely that his future lies somewhere else. Pity as as I believe he has talent. |
The offer and subsequent signing of a two year deal was a strange one after what has happened in the past. Given the chance early on after he could have been a perennial sub for quite a while, didn't take it and his next one might have to involve a loan move somewhere else. His attributes are obvious, yet for some reason he doesn't fit what we're trying to achieve. You've got to go out there and illustrate why a manager has put faith in you, something Lund has done with little fanfare. | |
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| Is it last season again? on 22:16 - Aug 26 with 2919 views | crmedia |
Don't be hard on yourselves. You lost to a VERY soft penalty and your team dominated us completely in the second half. Lillis really kept you in it for the first half, yet our keeper saved us from dropping points on the second.
For a full report on how your team did, check out my blog (from a Plymouth fans)
http://crmedia1992.blogspot.co.uk/ | | | |
| Is it last season again? on 22:20 - Aug 26 with 2914 views | 442Dale |
| Is it last season again? on 22:16 - Aug 26 by crmedia |
Don't be hard on yourselves. You lost to a VERY soft penalty and your team dominated us completely in the second half. Lillis really kept you in it for the first half, yet our keeper saved us from dropping points on the second.
For a full report on how your team did, check out my blog (from a Plymouth fans)
http://crmedia1992.blogspot.co.uk/ |
No. | |
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| Is it last season again? on 07:26 - Aug 27 with 2838 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Is it last season again? on 22:06 - Aug 26 by 442Dale |
The offer and subsequent signing of a two year deal was a strange one after what has happened in the past. Given the chance early on after he could have been a perennial sub for quite a while, didn't take it and his next one might have to involve a loan move somewhere else. His attributes are obvious, yet for some reason he doesn't fit what we're trying to achieve. You've got to go out there and illustrate why a manager has put faith in you, something Lund has done with little fanfare. |
"His attributes are obvious.."
Erm.......can you just list them for the avoidance of doubt.
As regards Lund, it's blindingly obvious that he is just a better player, with far more quality, full stop/end of. At a certain point 442 you've just got to accept that it's not the club, KH or whatever else but the painful reality that the player himself might just not be up to it on a required consistent basis.
The 'some reason why' he isn't fitting in might just be, and here's the controversial bit, because he ain't good enough.
[Post edited 27 Aug 2013 7:34]
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| Is it last season again? on 08:45 - Aug 27 with 2811 views | 442Dale |
| Is it last season again? on 07:26 - Aug 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
"His attributes are obvious.."
Erm.......can you just list them for the avoidance of doubt.
As regards Lund, it's blindingly obvious that he is just a better player, with far more quality, full stop/end of. At a certain point 442 you've just got to accept that it's not the club, KH or whatever else but the painful reality that the player himself might just not be up to it on a required consistent basis.
The 'some reason why' he isn't fitting in might just be, and here's the controversial bit, because he ain't good enough.
[Post edited 27 Aug 2013 7:34]
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He has pace to beat a man in midfield - players like that can break lines with one run as defenders often have to come out and deal with it. He has the engine and fitness to keep this up for entire games too.
His shooting ability is there for all to see, while he has often been the one to put over good crosses in the last couple of seasons too - agree that he may have the ability to play as a full back/wingback. And that idea, and the one where he is used on the right of midfield is the part of the 'some reason why' - playing him away from his preferred position, despite the benefits to the team, has never looked an option that suits all parties. Edit: similarly, reactions like the one after being subbed don't help, he has to accept manager's decisions are made for the team. We've had two such reactions bookending spells at the club that are three years apart!
Football is always a game of opinion, there have been times when we missed the boat on Tutte (L1 relegation season when Jones needed a rest and JK and Tutte as a two was never tried out), and there are times, like now, when you can't see a role for him in the team because other players have shown to be better at the roles he's being asked to play. Not good enough? He's good enough to have a long career as a midfielder in the lower leagues, but it's reaching the point where you wonder whether it will be at Dale. There must be something that prompted Hill to offer a two year deal, but maybe the manager realises that there are now better options in the squad for the way we want to play. [Post edited 27 Aug 2013 8:52]
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| Is it last season again? on 09:02 - Aug 27 with 2754 views | macro |
| Is it last season again? on 21:14 - Aug 26 by TVOS1907 |
Aye, I thought it was ridiculous and I hope Hill noticed. |
BBM pikced up after him and moved all the kit away from him. Don't expect Tutte to start v Oxford |  | | |
| Is it last season again? on 11:44 - Aug 27 with 2669 views | TalkingSutty |
| Is it last season again? on 07:26 - Aug 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
"His attributes are obvious.."
Erm.......can you just list them for the avoidance of doubt.
As regards Lund, it's blindingly obvious that he is just a better player, with far more quality, full stop/end of. At a certain point 442 you've just got to accept that it's not the club, KH or whatever else but the painful reality that the player himself might just not be up to it on a required consistent basis.
The 'some reason why' he isn't fitting in might just be, and here's the controversial bit, because he ain't good enough.
[Post edited 27 Aug 2013 7:34]
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You forgot the blindingly obvious..... the lad has a terrible attitude and Saturdays tantrum doesnt surprise me in the slightest, hes a slapped arse.
Its not a sign that he shows passion etc, its an insult to the manager who made the decision to substitute him and why he wasnt made to pick up his own kit after flinging it on the floor is also another issue, i know what i would have done if i was sitting in the managers seat.
Like you insinuate in your post there are always one or two who seem to think Tutte is better than he actually is, some of those same folk suggested the team should be built around Ashley Grimes and every time he misplaced a pass it was the fault of his team mates for not reading the pass ( he had a superior footballing brain), you couldnt make it up. Grimes was bone idol, its that simple.
I would like to see Tutte placed on the transfer list, i see him as another Grimes like character and the look of misery on his face is depressing. If life as a professional footballer is so bad he should consider changing careers. |  | | |
| Is it last season again? on 12:19 - Aug 27 with 2627 views | 49thseason |
I hope Vidal turns out to be better than the other City Academy players we have signed or had on loan. Most have been more than underwhelming. Shucker, Jordan, Flood, D'Laryea, Etuhu, Grimes, Ball, Bunn, (and now Tutte) etc. You might have thought that one of them would have done enough to make us sorry they left. | | | |
| Is it last season again? on 12:25 - Aug 27 with 2611 views | TVOS1907 |
| Is it last season again? on 12:19 - Aug 27 by 49thseason |
I hope Vidal turns out to be better than the other City Academy players we have signed or had on loan. Most have been more than underwhelming. Shucker, Jordan, Flood, D'Laryea, Etuhu, Grimes, Ball, Bunn, (and now Tutte) etc. You might have thought that one of them would have done enough to make us sorry they left. |
Bit harsh on Etuhu.
He only played a handful of games, scored twice and then got injured.
True, his career hasn't really kicked on since then, but I thought he did well in his time with us.
Agree with the others though. 442 might want to add something about Jordan. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Is it last season again? on 12:28 - Aug 27 with 2605 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Is it last season again? on 08:45 - Aug 27 by 442Dale |
He has pace to beat a man in midfield - players like that can break lines with one run as defenders often have to come out and deal with it. He has the engine and fitness to keep this up for entire games too.
His shooting ability is there for all to see, while he has often been the one to put over good crosses in the last couple of seasons too - agree that he may have the ability to play as a full back/wingback. And that idea, and the one where he is used on the right of midfield is the part of the 'some reason why' - playing him away from his preferred position, despite the benefits to the team, has never looked an option that suits all parties. Edit: similarly, reactions like the one after being subbed don't help, he has to accept manager's decisions are made for the team. We've had two such reactions bookending spells at the club that are three years apart!
Football is always a game of opinion, there have been times when we missed the boat on Tutte (L1 relegation season when Jones needed a rest and JK and Tutte as a two was never tried out), and there are times, like now, when you can't see a role for him in the team because other players have shown to be better at the roles he's being asked to play. Not good enough? He's good enough to have a long career as a midfielder in the lower leagues, but it's reaching the point where you wonder whether it will be at Dale. There must be something that prompted Hill to offer a two year deal, but maybe the manager realises that there are now better options in the squad for the way we want to play. [Post edited 27 Aug 2013 8:52]
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"He has pace to beat a man in midfield - players like that can break lines with one run as defenders often have to come out and deal with it. He has the engine and fitness to keep this up for entire games too. "
If this is the case 442 then we have to see more of this in games because he just doesn't do what you describe on anything like a regular basis. Still, if that is indeed an attribute of his then he needs to focus on this and make this his strength because he hasn't got anything stand-out in his game and he needs to have something - and it is because of this reason that I doubt he will have a long career in central midfield.
Like you say though, opinions. | |
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| Is it last season again? on 12:38 - Aug 27 with 2582 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Is it last season again? on 11:44 - Aug 27 by TalkingSutty |
You forgot the blindingly obvious..... the lad has a terrible attitude and Saturdays tantrum doesnt surprise me in the slightest, hes a slapped arse.
Its not a sign that he shows passion etc, its an insult to the manager who made the decision to substitute him and why he wasnt made to pick up his own kit after flinging it on the floor is also another issue, i know what i would have done if i was sitting in the managers seat.
Like you insinuate in your post there are always one or two who seem to think Tutte is better than he actually is, some of those same folk suggested the team should be built around Ashley Grimes and every time he misplaced a pass it was the fault of his team mates for not reading the pass ( he had a superior footballing brain), you couldnt make it up. Grimes was bone idol, its that simple.
I would like to see Tutte placed on the transfer list, i see him as another Grimes like character and the look of misery on his face is depressing. If life as a professional footballer is so bad he should consider changing careers. |
Agreed.
It's funny, and I think Col has touched on this, players from Premier academies often seem to think they're better than they actually are. Do you remember the fanfare afforded to the mighty David Ball and Harry Bunn by Eyre and Bunn (senior). The reality is they were inconsistent performers who have not, despite the gushing praise of all things GMR and Man City, graced the Champions League or Roy Hodgson's squad. On the contrary, both have failed to make an impact in the lower leagues.
If Tutte had the same 'support' he'll probably think he should be in the side every week, not be subbed and is better than Rochdale. We see Cav and Lund and before that Jones and Kennedy and Jason Taylor and before that Perkins and think the opposite. They were genuinely very good lower league footballers and are head and shoulders above the mighty Tutte. [Post edited 27 Aug 2013 12:46]
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| Is it last season again? on 12:43 - Aug 27 with 2574 views | GhanaDale |
Interesting reading back over my opening post considering I'd literally just walked out of the ground after a having a few drinks I suppose it wasn't a very sensible post.
It was an incredibly frustrating game to watch, the amount of times we got into promising positions and just gave the ball away was ridiculous.
I commented at one point in an attack "I bet we give the ball away on the half way line from a rubbish tackle" and we did, bang on the half way line.
It was all rather predictable, could definitely do with an out and out striker, and Cav back. | |
| www.facebook.com/projectaura |
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| Is it last season again? on 13:00 - Aug 27 with 2542 views | TalkingSutty |
| Is it last season again? on 12:38 - Aug 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
Agreed.
It's funny, and I think Col has touched on this, players from Premier academies often seem to think they're better than they actually are. Do you remember the fanfare afforded to the mighty David Ball and Harry Bunn by Eyre and Bunn (senior). The reality is they were inconsistent performers who have not, despite the gushing praise of all things GMR and Man City, graced the Champions League or Roy Hodgson's squad. On the contrary, both have failed to make an impact in the lower leagues.
If Tutte had the same 'support' he'll probably think he should be in the side every week, not be subbed and is better than Rochdale. We see Cav and Lund and before that Jones and Kennedy and Jason Taylor and before that Perkins and think the opposite. They were genuinely very good lower league footballers and are head and shoulders above the mighty Tutte. [Post edited 27 Aug 2013 12:46]
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Some suggested Jones inclusion in the starting eleven was stifling Tutte and it was best for all parties if Jonah seeked pastures new.
They must be laughing their gonads off at Valley Parade, we let our best player just leave the club (He was our best player), in fact some fans held the door open for him and waved him off 
Anyway, Tuttes the future apparantly, cant wait !! | | | |
| Is it last season again? on 13:11 - Aug 27 with 2527 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Is it last season again? on 13:00 - Aug 27 by TalkingSutty |
Some suggested Jones inclusion in the starting eleven was stifling Tutte and it was best for all parties if Jonah seeked pastures new.
They must be laughing their gonads off at Valley Parade, we let our best player just leave the club (He was our best player), in fact some fans held the door open for him and waved him off
Anyway, Tuttes the future apparantly, cant wait !! |
If your last sentence is correct my work on inventing a real flux capacitor to attach to my TR7 intensifies.
Put TR7 because I can't spell Delorian(?) or whatever it is. | |
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| Is it last season again? on 13:29 - Aug 27 with 2504 views | TalkingSutty |
| Is it last season again? on 13:11 - Aug 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
If your last sentence is correct my work on inventing a real flux capacitor to attach to my TR7 intensifies.
Put TR7 because I can't spell Delorian(?) or whatever it is. |
I hope Tutte proves me wrong because it means it will benefit the club but apart from one or two lung busting runs during a game i just see him disappear for the remainder.
Its nothing new though we have had plenty like him down the years, they walk the walk but dont talk the talk and until Tutte does it week in and week out he needs to drop the prima donna act and try to improve his performances.
In fairness though he is playing a little bit out of position if he is covering for Cavanagh, but it doesnt excuse the schoolgirl tantrums  | | | |
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