| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb 17:31 - Feb 17 with 2747 views | 442Dale |
Here’s a trade off we’d probably all take:
Dale to drop to 12th if Sutton, Hartlepool, Southend and Solihull Moors all win tomorrow night. We’d prefer the last two not to get three points but if it means a chaos theory win in the main, it’s actually a decent set of results. [Post edited 17 Feb 17:40]
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 18:00 - Feb 17 with 2665 views | James1980 |
Within the three year plan I'd like to know has Jim been given specific targets for this season other than make the playoffs? Making second or third with a points tally in the high 80s or 90s is a tad different to scraping 7th with 70ish. If the latter is the target, just missing out by a few points might be seen as a success, especially if it shows improvement from last season. [Post edited 19 Feb 9:53]
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 21:57 - Feb 18 with 2108 views | EllDale |
Ninth tonight after the final whistles but down to 11th at one stage.
Seven points off a playoff place but with a minimum of four games in hand on everyone above and five games on some. | | | |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 22:06 - Feb 18 with 2073 views | mikehunt |
If we lose tomorrow We have to win all our games in hand to scrape seventh. We really have blown a great chance to cement a playoff place (glum face) |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 23:58 - Feb 18 with 1896 views | Edindale |
Feels like it could be a pivotal game tomorrow but irrespective of the result there is so much of the season still to be played out.
Good results for Barnet, Alty and Gateshead with at least 8 teams genuinely in the mix.
At least our goal difference looks favourable at the moment. | | | |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 00:15 - Feb 19 with 1882 views | DaleFan7 |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 23:58 - Feb 18 by Edindale |
Feels like it could be a pivotal game tomorrow but irrespective of the result there is so much of the season still to be played out.
Good results for Barnet, Alty and Gateshead with at least 8 teams genuinely in the mix.
At least our goal difference looks favourable at the moment. |
It's a huge game now tomorrow. In our last 7 away league games we've only scored more than one goal once, I have a feeling we'll need to improve on that tomorrow to win. We started the season winning 4 out of our first 6 away games but since then have won 2 in 8.
More in hope than expectation but Jim really needs to drum into the players the importance of this game in the season given Halifax's proximity to us in the league. [Post edited 19 Feb 0:24]
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 07:37 - Feb 19 with 1702 views | TalkingSutty |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 00:15 - Feb 19 by DaleFan7 |
It's a huge game now tomorrow. In our last 7 away league games we've only scored more than one goal once, I have a feeling we'll need to improve on that tomorrow to win. We started the season winning 4 out of our first 6 away games but since then have won 2 in 8.
More in hope than expectation but Jim really needs to drum into the players the importance of this game in the season given Halifax's proximity to us in the league. [Post edited 19 Feb 0:24]
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The importance of winning games seems as though it's secondary to the performance and the process when you listen to McNulty. I think thats the difference between us and most of the teams above us and it's reflected in the league table. They all seem to find that bit extra and win the games that they're expected to win in general. More fire in their belly's, more desire to fight, more ruthlessness from the dugout. We beat Halifax at home, in all honesty they ran rings around us that night, we need to be up for the fight from the first whistle tonight because Halifax will realise the significance of tonight's result and won't be taking a backward step. We're due a monumental cock up in defence while trying to play out, inviting pressure, hopefully McNulty will take into account the state of the pitch when he conducts his team talk and we don't see any of that tonight. It's about which team wants it the most tonight. [Post edited 19 Feb 8:35]
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 09:03 - Feb 19 with 1574 views | fitzochris |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 07:37 - Feb 19 by TalkingSutty |
The importance of winning games seems as though it's secondary to the performance and the process when you listen to McNulty. I think thats the difference between us and most of the teams above us and it's reflected in the league table. They all seem to find that bit extra and win the games that they're expected to win in general. More fire in their belly's, more desire to fight, more ruthlessness from the dugout. We beat Halifax at home, in all honesty they ran rings around us that night, we need to be up for the fight from the first whistle tonight because Halifax will realise the significance of tonight's result and won't be taking a backward step. We're due a monumental cock up in defence while trying to play out, inviting pressure, hopefully McNulty will take into account the state of the pitch when he conducts his team talk and we don't see any of that tonight. It's about which team wants it the most tonight. [Post edited 19 Feb 8:35]
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It's at the stage now where what was an extremely advantageous position is slipping away game by game. Even through the period of inactivity caused by our pitch, we somehow seemed magnetically attached to seventh spot, all the while accumulating games in hand on those around us.
That time has now passed and with each game our opponents play, the pressure mounts on the value of points we need to take from each of those games we have up our sleeve.
Questions need to be asked about expectations for this season. What are McNulty's and what are those of the board? Are they aligned? We were told by the board at the start of the season (well, the Ogden element of it) that the playing budget was enough to assemble a squad "capable of reaching the play-offs". Is that the marker put down? Is reaching the play-offs the minimum requirement? Or is competing for the play-offs defined by being in and around them all season, but just missing out at the end? Would that be deemed acceptable in year one of what is a three-year plan? I note that in September, the statement was revised to describe the budget as one allowing McNulty to "build a squad which we hope has the strength and depth needed for a season which is likely to involve more than 50 games". This omitted any mention of a final league placing as a target.
For me personally, I would hold seventh or above as my base expectation for this season. Last season was all about finding our feet at this level and sorting out the serious issues of cash flow off the field. Both of those have been achieved. Another season of finishing mid table, with a much-improved squad, would not really be progress. Therefore, competing in the play-offs, but not necessarily winning them, would be a good season for me - with the added bonus of reaching Wembley in the FA Trophy.
The caveat being that next season we at least make the play-offs again but look a strong side for the entire season (like York or Barnet this time around).
For this to happen, we need to see a lot more resolve on the field. As TS says, there was a grit missing in the derby game against Oldham. I want to see that tonight, as it will be needed. We need to start taking points off those teams above us, especially if we are dropping them against teams below us.
I still maintain that we should have strengthened the midfield and no.9 positions. We let Dennis go back to MK Dons but did nothing to replace him with better - or anything at all. It's inexplicable really. I would like to know the reasoning for this. Yes, Henderson should see more minutes, but he is not the answer week in, week out in terms of cutting Mitchell slack or pressuring him to hold on to his starting berth. We need an unknown quantity there.
Anyway, bit of a ramble, but it's where I am at. It's a key period for the club in the season, and will, no doubt, result in one of two things, McNulty and the players proving their strength of character and acumen; or a massive increase in an already growing swell of pressure. |  |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 09:09 - Feb 19 with 1562 views | TalkingSutty |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 09:03 - Feb 19 by fitzochris |
It's at the stage now where what was an extremely advantageous position is slipping away game by game. Even through the period of inactivity caused by our pitch, we somehow seemed magnetically attached to seventh spot, all the while accumulating games in hand on those around us.
That time has now passed and with each game our opponents play, the pressure mounts on the value of points we need to take from each of those games we have up our sleeve.
Questions need to be asked about expectations for this season. What are McNulty's and what are those of the board? Are they aligned? We were told by the board at the start of the season (well, the Ogden element of it) that the playing budget was enough to assemble a squad "capable of reaching the play-offs". Is that the marker put down? Is reaching the play-offs the minimum requirement? Or is competing for the play-offs defined by being in and around them all season, but just missing out at the end? Would that be deemed acceptable in year one of what is a three-year plan? I note that in September, the statement was revised to describe the budget as one allowing McNulty to "build a squad which we hope has the strength and depth needed for a season which is likely to involve more than 50 games". This omitted any mention of a final league placing as a target.
For me personally, I would hold seventh or above as my base expectation for this season. Last season was all about finding our feet at this level and sorting out the serious issues of cash flow off the field. Both of those have been achieved. Another season of finishing mid table, with a much-improved squad, would not really be progress. Therefore, competing in the play-offs, but not necessarily winning them, would be a good season for me - with the added bonus of reaching Wembley in the FA Trophy.
The caveat being that next season we at least make the play-offs again but look a strong side for the entire season (like York or Barnet this time around).
For this to happen, we need to see a lot more resolve on the field. As TS says, there was a grit missing in the derby game against Oldham. I want to see that tonight, as it will be needed. We need to start taking points off those teams above us, especially if we are dropping them against teams below us.
I still maintain that we should have strengthened the midfield and no.9 positions. We let Dennis go back to MK Dons but did nothing to replace him with better - or anything at all. It's inexplicable really. I would like to know the reasoning for this. Yes, Henderson should see more minutes, but he is not the answer week in, week out in terms of cutting Mitchell slack or pressuring him to hold on to his starting berth. We need an unknown quantity there.
Anyway, bit of a ramble, but it's where I am at. It's a key period for the club in the season, and will, no doubt, result in one of two things, McNulty and the players proving their strength of character and acumen; or a massive increase in an already growing swell of pressure. |
Well summed up. Progress in the day to day running of the club is probably just as important as our final league position also. Unless the whole structure of the club is firing on all cylinders, or at least moving in the right direction, then everything else falls down. The changes in the leadership structure has been badly needed for a long time, so that gives us hope. [Post edited 19 Feb 9:46]
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 09:52 - Feb 19 with 1450 views | WhitworthDale |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 09:03 - Feb 19 by fitzochris |
It's at the stage now where what was an extremely advantageous position is slipping away game by game. Even through the period of inactivity caused by our pitch, we somehow seemed magnetically attached to seventh spot, all the while accumulating games in hand on those around us.
That time has now passed and with each game our opponents play, the pressure mounts on the value of points we need to take from each of those games we have up our sleeve.
Questions need to be asked about expectations for this season. What are McNulty's and what are those of the board? Are they aligned? We were told by the board at the start of the season (well, the Ogden element of it) that the playing budget was enough to assemble a squad "capable of reaching the play-offs". Is that the marker put down? Is reaching the play-offs the minimum requirement? Or is competing for the play-offs defined by being in and around them all season, but just missing out at the end? Would that be deemed acceptable in year one of what is a three-year plan? I note that in September, the statement was revised to describe the budget as one allowing McNulty to "build a squad which we hope has the strength and depth needed for a season which is likely to involve more than 50 games". This omitted any mention of a final league placing as a target.
For me personally, I would hold seventh or above as my base expectation for this season. Last season was all about finding our feet at this level and sorting out the serious issues of cash flow off the field. Both of those have been achieved. Another season of finishing mid table, with a much-improved squad, would not really be progress. Therefore, competing in the play-offs, but not necessarily winning them, would be a good season for me - with the added bonus of reaching Wembley in the FA Trophy.
The caveat being that next season we at least make the play-offs again but look a strong side for the entire season (like York or Barnet this time around).
For this to happen, we need to see a lot more resolve on the field. As TS says, there was a grit missing in the derby game against Oldham. I want to see that tonight, as it will be needed. We need to start taking points off those teams above us, especially if we are dropping them against teams below us.
I still maintain that we should have strengthened the midfield and no.9 positions. We let Dennis go back to MK Dons but did nothing to replace him with better - or anything at all. It's inexplicable really. I would like to know the reasoning for this. Yes, Henderson should see more minutes, but he is not the answer week in, week out in terms of cutting Mitchell slack or pressuring him to hold on to his starting berth. We need an unknown quantity there.
Anyway, bit of a ramble, but it's where I am at. It's a key period for the club in the season, and will, no doubt, result in one of two things, McNulty and the players proving their strength of character and acumen; or a massive increase in an already growing swell of pressure. |
If the Ogdens have put in a top 7 budget, they would be entitled to expect a top 7 finish.
It would be wrong to judge a final league position by how the team performed up to, say, January. You end up where you deserve to - accordingly, finishing 8th, 9th or 10th should be regarded as a failure. Even if the team only misses the playoffs by a few points.
Whether it is enough of a failure to sack the manager is a different matter. They may choose to give him one more season, but then the pressure really is on - because there is more ground to make up to be a top play off contender (York, Barnet) if we finish 8th/9th/10th this season.
I would imagine the 3 year plan was Year 1: any playoff position (but lose out), Year 2: upper playoffs (compete for promotion in playoffs), Year 3: Serious title contenders, being promoted automatically or via the playoffs.
Needless to say, we are some way off this at the moment. | | | |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 09:53 - Feb 19 with 1449 views | dawlishdale |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 07:37 - Feb 19 by TalkingSutty |
The importance of winning games seems as though it's secondary to the performance and the process when you listen to McNulty. I think thats the difference between us and most of the teams above us and it's reflected in the league table. They all seem to find that bit extra and win the games that they're expected to win in general. More fire in their belly's, more desire to fight, more ruthlessness from the dugout. We beat Halifax at home, in all honesty they ran rings around us that night, we need to be up for the fight from the first whistle tonight because Halifax will realise the significance of tonight's result and won't be taking a backward step. We're due a monumental cock up in defence while trying to play out, inviting pressure, hopefully McNulty will take into account the state of the pitch when he conducts his team talk and we don't see any of that tonight. It's about which team wants it the most tonight. [Post edited 19 Feb 8:35]
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Absolutely nail on head TS. It does seem like a throwback to BBM days where the number of passes was valued more highly than the number of points. Passing around on our own pitch (plus several others) is foolish in the extreme.
I'm so glad that you mentioned the home game with Halifax, as I too thought they were by far the better team and really should have won.
Big few weeks for the team now. Can we mount a realistic play off push? I'm hopeful, but not confident. It will all come down to how the team is set up and told to play. | | | |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:16 - Feb 19 with 1380 views | fitzochris |
In the interests of fairness, Saturday’s game was nothing like the pass-pass approach mentioned.It was almost the perfect away performance and would have been but for Rodney and Hogan. I think all reasonably minded fans who saw the game would say that.
However, it’s not to say there aren’t flaws in the system, not least the Rodney element of the above - that being he or someone else sticking the ball consistently in the net. | |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:19 - Feb 19 with 1372 views | 442Dale |
In the interest of fairness, the Halifax home game was a great example of us being able to find a way to win when the other team was probably better. Defended well, went direct when required and battled throughout to secure the points.
Let’s not rewrite history again because if we’d produced a similar display against Oldham we might have got something from that game.
Fitz’s post covers most of the issues - can’t work out why we haven’t added players in midfield and attack. | |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:23 - Feb 19 with 1355 views | James1980 |
Jim has alluded to a blue print that has been adopted by other teams that have successfully made it out of National League. Can anyone enlighten me to the designs of said blueprint and examples of the teams that have used it successfully? | |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:47 - Feb 19 with 1315 views | TVOS1907 |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 22:06 - Feb 18 by mikehunt |
If we lose tomorrow We have to win all our games in hand to scrape seventh. We really have blown a great chance to cement a playoff place (glum face) |
How would we have to win all our games in hand to scrape seventh?
Other teams will also drop points, so it's impossible to say with any certainty what has to be done.
What we do have to do is win some of those games in hand, as well as at least one of the two in the league we have against Altrincham, plus some others!
The picture will be much clearer after that week when we have Gateshead, Wealdstone and Altrincham at home. [Post edited 19 Feb 11:01]
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| If you don't know why your posts keep getting downvoted, there's no hope for you. |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:50 - Feb 19 with 1296 views | fitzochris |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:23 - Feb 19 by James1980 |
Jim has alluded to a blue print that has been adopted by other teams that have successfully made it out of National League. Can anyone enlighten me to the designs of said blueprint and examples of the teams that have used it successfully? |
From numerous interviews with him last season, he cited Gateshead as an example of his blueprint. A team that has taken three or four seasons to reach its competitive peak in the NL by fine-tuning and integrating players into the system.
However, Gateshead need to constantly reinvigorate themselves due to their talent being pillaged every January and summer, due to their ownership model. Something we found happened to us in the EFL, but hopefully not as necessary at this level. | |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 11:23 - Feb 19 with 1176 views | James1980 |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:50 - Feb 19 by fitzochris |
From numerous interviews with him last season, he cited Gateshead as an example of his blueprint. A team that has taken three or four seasons to reach its competitive peak in the NL by fine-tuning and integrating players into the system.
However, Gateshead need to constantly reinvigorate themselves due to their talent being pillaged every January and summer, due to their ownership model. Something we found happened to us in the EFL, but hopefully not as necessary at this level. |
Thank you Chris, to emulate Gateshead yet still retain our best players would be good to see. | |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 12:30 - Feb 19 with 1058 views | Daley_Lama |
Blueprint 1.1
Defend deep. Have a long throw in. Repeat. |  |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 13:24 - Feb 19 with 913 views | 49thseason |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 10:50 - Feb 19 by fitzochris |
From numerous interviews with him last season, he cited Gateshead as an example of his blueprint. A team that has taken three or four seasons to reach its competitive peak in the NL by fine-tuning and integrating players into the system.
However, Gateshead need to constantly reinvigorate themselves due to their talent being pillaged every January and summer, due to their ownership model. Something we found happened to us in the EFL, but hopefully not as necessary at this level. |
A budget to enable a play- off pĺace is at best hopeful, the reality is that whilst the cash may well have been equivalent to the budgets of similar- sized clubs in the division, cash alone does not guarantee success. Recruitment, the man- management, the way in which the squad gells into a team are as important as the amount of money that gets spent .. Football is littered with expensively assembled squads that have massively underachieved. You need decent players, some luck and an ability to actually win games.......not getting beaten is losing if others are winning....
Does the Head Coach have the killer instinct or is he a father-figure who excuses failures, is he a demanding , hard-nosed, no-excuses, manager of men or a teacher of boys?
As any soldier will tell you, all the planning and preparation goes out of the window as soon as the first shot is fired, at that point, the result depends on the qualities of the men in the field.... or on the pitch. Losing without consequences is easy to get used to winning against the odds is what sorts the men from the boys .
Herein is the essential problem, winning teams have a winning mentality, both individually and collectively, they find a way to win. We do not, yet, have that essential characteristic as evidenced by the number of points we drop for the lack of a single goal. Is it better to recruit on the basis of technical ability, as outlined by statistics or on mental strength, an almost undefinable characteristic? Ideally both.
Equally you do need a couple of highly effective old professionals that have the ability to see how a game is going and do the dirty work that isnt taught in academies or the FIFA coaching manuals and to dominate the dressing room. In our case a midfielder and a goal scorer with " reputations" would be ideal.... |  | | |
| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 14:22 - Feb 19 with 820 views | 442Dale |
Once more, despite not disagreeing with so much of what is being said, the “winning mentality” aspect has to be looked at with facts applied.
We have won almost half of our games (48%). Only four teams in the division have a better win percentage. Gateshead and Halifax have won one more game having played four more than us. Oldham have won two more games having played five times extra.
Our issue, where having the recruits in the areas identified may help, is not turning losses into draws. We need to get better results, full stop. | |
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| The race for seventh, midweek 18th/19th Feb on 15:34 - Feb 19 with 691 views | Dale_4_Life |
James ……..
A few times you have posted this seasons target was 7th or higher. In other words a play off place.
Where have you seen this because I cannot remember this being a thing set out by the club or the team management.
I may have missed .. I am curious.
Whilst this will be an improvement on 23/24 it’s a funny target to set 7th place.
I hope we get on the front foot tonight BTW right from kick off and for 90 minutes plus.. | | | |
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