| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds 08:31 - Jun 20 with 2625 views | onehunglow |
Worth a discussion surely.
Cynical ploy to attract votes ? |  |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 11:48 - Jun 21 with 1031 views | Boundy |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 22:02 - Jun 20 by Scotia |
If you're old enough to work you should be allowed to vote.
That's not to say a 16 year old should be voting, but perhaps not working in the same way an adult does and should not be in the armed forces parental consent or not. |
16 year old are protected under employment laws and under any credible risk assessment has to have control measures in place to protect them due to their age and inexperience. You don't believe they even with parental consent shouldn't be allowed to join the armed forces when it's proven that in a disciplined environment allows an individual to develop (in the majority ) a well balanced individual, did me no harm. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 12:51 - Jun 21 with 971 views | controversial_jack |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 11:48 - Jun 21 by Boundy |
16 year old are protected under employment laws and under any credible risk assessment has to have control measures in place to protect them due to their age and inexperience. You don't believe they even with parental consent shouldn't be allowed to join the armed forces when it's proven that in a disciplined environment allows an individual to develop (in the majority ) a well balanced individual, did me no harm. |
That's debatable! | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 15:58 - Jun 21 with 924 views | Boundy |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 10:02 - Jun 21 by Scotia |
In that case they should be allowed to vote. |
They're included in a specific group because at the age they're considered vulnerable with their brains not yet developed sufficiently to appreciate danger nor to to have adequate experience to a make rational decisions , most kids as already stated tend to have socialist views , everything should be free with the state paying for it , and that although they recognise inequalities they fail to understand why those inequalities exist.
At what would you give a group the right to vote and why? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 17:12 - Jun 21 with 906 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 22:02 - Jun 20 by Scotia |
If you're old enough to work you should be allowed to vote.
That's not to say a 16 year old should be voting, but perhaps not working in the same way an adult does and should not be in the armed forces parental consent or not. |
Really? Shouldn't it be more nuanced? After all girls are capable of getting pregnant at 14 or even younger, boys are capable of impreganting them but should we make it legal? 14 year olds can reach a cars pedals too but should we let them drive?
I had 2 part time jobs when I was 12, a paper round and i went out on our local milkmans round with him on Saturdays...should I have been allowed to vote.
There again, what about those who don't work but exist purely on benefits, should we deny them the vote? | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 18:25 - Jun 21 with 869 views | Scotia |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 15:58 - Jun 21 by Boundy |
They're included in a specific group because at the age they're considered vulnerable with their brains not yet developed sufficiently to appreciate danger nor to to have adequate experience to a make rational decisions , most kids as already stated tend to have socialist views , everything should be free with the state paying for it , and that although they recognise inequalities they fail to understand why those inequalities exist.
At what would you give a group the right to vote and why? |
It doesn't sound to me like a specific group like that should be in the armed forces. Or be allowed to vote.
18. As joining the armed forces, working full time in a non-training based role or getting married.
Should people with learning disabilities, mental health issues or or neurodiverisity be allowed to vote? | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 18:38 - Jun 21 with 860 views | Scotia |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 17:12 - Jun 21 by SullutaCreturned |
Really? Shouldn't it be more nuanced? After all girls are capable of getting pregnant at 14 or even younger, boys are capable of impreganting them but should we make it legal? 14 year olds can reach a cars pedals too but should we let them drive?
I had 2 part time jobs when I was 12, a paper round and i went out on our local milkmans round with him on Saturdays...should I have been allowed to vote.
There again, what about those who don't work but exist purely on benefits, should we deny them the vote? |
Definitely nuanced which is why I caveated the work / age comment there's a world of difference between earning pocket money and taking your first steps into the adult world. It's not a black and white issue, but if you're old enough to pay tax you should be entitled to have a say how it's spent.
The pregnancy issue is different because it's a natural occurrence, but again I think a 16 year old is very young to be a parent. I know plenty who've done a decent job though, but equally as many children of 16 year olds who've been brought up by their grandparents.
On the whole though, the opposition to 16 year olds voting seems to be down to the allegation they'd be left leaning. I don't buy that, and so what if it is. Most 16 year olds I know would vote reform because they'd buy the BS.
Most university students on the other hand....
The biggest problem we have regarding voting in this country is media bias, now that's a thread for you. | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 19:05 - Jun 21 with 853 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 18:38 - Jun 21 by Scotia |
Definitely nuanced which is why I caveated the work / age comment there's a world of difference between earning pocket money and taking your first steps into the adult world. It's not a black and white issue, but if you're old enough to pay tax you should be entitled to have a say how it's spent.
The pregnancy issue is different because it's a natural occurrence, but again I think a 16 year old is very young to be a parent. I know plenty who've done a decent job though, but equally as many children of 16 year olds who've been brought up by their grandparents.
On the whole though, the opposition to 16 year olds voting seems to be down to the allegation they'd be left leaning. I don't buy that, and so what if it is. Most 16 year olds I know would vote reform because they'd buy the BS.
Most university students on the other hand....
The biggest problem we have regarding voting in this country is media bias, now that's a thread for you. |
What now, a natural occurence is different? I don't see it that way, we outlaw it because we think it's wrong.
My objection to voting at 16 isn't becase they'd be left leaning, generally speaking. it's more because they don't have the knowledge and/or experience to cast their vote. I know that if we applied that to everyone then plenty of adults would be barred from voting too but that's another argument.
I think tht, seeing as the human brain isn't fully formed and settled until we are 25, theres an argument for raising the voting age.
You will always find exceptions to any rule.
On a yet different hand, if paying tax is a qualifier for voting then many on benefits should be refused the vote. | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 20:46 - Jun 21 with 827 views | Scotia |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 19:05 - Jun 21 by SullutaCreturned |
What now, a natural occurence is different? I don't see it that way, we outlaw it because we think it's wrong.
My objection to voting at 16 isn't becase they'd be left leaning, generally speaking. it's more because they don't have the knowledge and/or experience to cast their vote. I know that if we applied that to everyone then plenty of adults would be barred from voting too but that's another argument.
I think tht, seeing as the human brain isn't fully formed and settled until we are 25, theres an argument for raising the voting age.
You will always find exceptions to any rule.
On a yet different hand, if paying tax is a qualifier for voting then many on benefits should be refused the vote. |
No but we can't control who has children.
I object to voting at sixteen too, as I object to children joining a force of war or getting married for exactly the same reasons.
Even a benefit claimant makes a contribution to their future, even via their benefits.
I'm happy with 18 across the board. | | | |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 21:23 - Jun 21 with 801 views | Boundy |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 12:51 - Jun 21 by controversial_jack |
That's debatable! |
You know me personally ? , another subject you know nothing about . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 21:43 - Jun 21 with 787 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 20:46 - Jun 21 by Scotia |
No but we can't control who has children.
I object to voting at sixteen too, as I object to children joining a force of war or getting married for exactly the same reasons.
Even a benefit claimant makes a contribution to their future, even via their benefits.
I'm happy with 18 across the board. |
I agree with you apart from the benefot thing. How can it be said that somebody who has always lived off benefits makes a contribution to their future?
They are given money supplied by working people, unless they have earned it is always the workers paying for that future.
PS, we do try to control who has children, the laws are there for that reason. | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 01:46 - Jun 23 with 709 views | DJack |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 19:05 - Jun 21 by SullutaCreturned |
What now, a natural occurence is different? I don't see it that way, we outlaw it because we think it's wrong.
My objection to voting at 16 isn't becase they'd be left leaning, generally speaking. it's more because they don't have the knowledge and/or experience to cast their vote. I know that if we applied that to everyone then plenty of adults would be barred from voting too but that's another argument.
I think tht, seeing as the human brain isn't fully formed and settled until we are 25, theres an argument for raising the voting age.
You will always find exceptions to any rule.
On a yet different hand, if paying tax is a qualifier for voting then many on benefits should be refused the vote. |
I suspect that you are talking about the frontal lobe...they have revised the age estimate to closer to 30.
Do you honestly believe that they are much different to .any in their twenties when it comes to knowledge and experience? What knowledge, what experience?
It's been shown that people of all ages and intellectual capacities get taken in by smooth operators...which is what modus operandi many modern "politicians" use. So the truth is many of those that oppose it do so out of fear. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 11:21 - Jun 23 with 652 views | GixerJack |
The way things are going half the Tory candidates will be in clink by the time the election come round so quite possibly yes |  | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 13:19 - Jun 23 with 634 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 01:46 - Jun 23 by DJack |
I suspect that you are talking about the frontal lobe...they have revised the age estimate to closer to 30.
Do you honestly believe that they are much different to .any in their twenties when it comes to knowledge and experience? What knowledge, what experience?
It's been shown that people of all ages and intellectual capacities get taken in by smooth operators...which is what modus operandi many modern "politicians" use. So the truth is many of those that oppose it do so out of fear. |
Fear of what?
Yes allkinds of people at all ages get conned, everyone can be foolish and stupid. Done my fair share of that and still do occassionally. It's not why I oppose the vote for 16 year olds though.
We don't let them, in the law, drink alcohol till their 18 but they can vote? A few beers down your mates when the parents are out (and many other places) is something most people my age know about. Many would say it's wrong and stupid and that a 16 year old isn't mature enough to decide to drink alcohol yet old enough to choose a government?
Maybe we should let them join the armed forces and be sent to a front line then? Maybe we should let them drive on the roads by themselves, if they can pass the test.
Why don't we let them do those things....because they are children and not responsible enough but they can choose a government.
PS, where did you get 30 from?
https://www.iflscience.com/does-the-brain-really-mature-at-the-age-of-25-68979 [Post edited 23 Jun 13:23]
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 23:13 - Jun 23 with 606 views | DJack |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 13:19 - Jun 23 by SullutaCreturned |
Fear of what?
Yes allkinds of people at all ages get conned, everyone can be foolish and stupid. Done my fair share of that and still do occassionally. It's not why I oppose the vote for 16 year olds though.
We don't let them, in the law, drink alcohol till their 18 but they can vote? A few beers down your mates when the parents are out (and many other places) is something most people my age know about. Many would say it's wrong and stupid and that a 16 year old isn't mature enough to decide to drink alcohol yet old enough to choose a government?
Maybe we should let them join the armed forces and be sent to a front line then? Maybe we should let them drive on the roads by themselves, if they can pass the test.
Why don't we let them do those things....because they are children and not responsible enough but they can choose a government.
PS, where did you get 30 from?
https://www.iflscience.com/does-the-brain-really-mature-at-the-age-of-25-68979 [Post edited 23 Jun 13:23]
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So I guessed correctly that you were referencing the frontal lobe , cool. You could have told us from the start as you were already aware of the article because years ago the ago was thought to be lower.
I didn't say 30, I said closer to 30 and that came from a com.ent my wife made to me months ago when she told me what she had read in an article.
Also I didn't state that you opposed voting for the age group due to fear. You also added a lot of strawman topics...drinking, the military etcetera. I didn't equate youth voting with adulthood, I just pointed out how easily we can be duped or persuaded otherwise which is applicable to all and that there is no biological line in the sand date which endows us with the ability to select politicians or governments so maybe letting the next generation start dipping their toes in setting out their future rather than relying on old bustards carrying on making things worse for the future. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 16:56 - Jun 24 with 544 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 23:13 - Jun 23 by DJack |
So I guessed correctly that you were referencing the frontal lobe , cool. You could have told us from the start as you were already aware of the article because years ago the ago was thought to be lower.
I didn't say 30, I said closer to 30 and that came from a com.ent my wife made to me months ago when she told me what she had read in an article.
Also I didn't state that you opposed voting for the age group due to fear. You also added a lot of strawman topics...drinking, the military etcetera. I didn't equate youth voting with adulthood, I just pointed out how easily we can be duped or persuaded otherwise which is applicable to all and that there is no biological line in the sand date which endows us with the ability to select politicians or governments so maybe letting the next generation start dipping their toes in setting out their future rather than relying on old bustards carrying on making things worse for the future. |
Well you said "It's been shown that people of all ages and intellectual capacities get taken in by smooth operators...which is what modus operandi many modern "politicians" use. So the truth is many of those that oppose it do so out of fear"
And I responded by pointing out REASONS why we shouldn't let 16 year olds vote and why I wasn't against it out of fear so, no there's straw man to be seen here.
No, there is no biological line and even older and cleverer people get dupednbut 16 year olds will e duped even more easily, generally speaking because they have no eperience to call on and n knowledhe of what is it they are choosing because most of them aren't interested.
Indeed so many people aren't interested any more that they don't even bother to vote. Most 16 year olds don't see futher into their future than the next fun thing, seeing their girlfriend, the next football match etc. | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 23:53 - Jun 24 with 493 views | DJack |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 16:56 - Jun 24 by SullutaCreturned |
Well you said "It's been shown that people of all ages and intellectual capacities get taken in by smooth operators...which is what modus operandi many modern "politicians" use. So the truth is many of those that oppose it do so out of fear"
And I responded by pointing out REASONS why we shouldn't let 16 year olds vote and why I wasn't against it out of fear so, no there's straw man to be seen here.
No, there is no biological line and even older and cleverer people get dupednbut 16 year olds will e duped even more easily, generally speaking because they have no eperience to call on and n knowledhe of what is it they are choosing because most of them aren't interested.
Indeed so many people aren't interested any more that they don't even bother to vote. Most 16 year olds don't see futher into their future than the next fun thing, seeing their girlfriend, the next football match etc. |
"Indeed so many people aren't interested any more that they don't even bother to vote. Most 16 year olds don't see futher into their future than the next fun thing, seeing their girlfriend, the next football match etc. "
...so give the vote to the youngsters, try to engage them and see if we get an increase in voting and political engagement. they can't be any worse than the general poulation, going by the statistics. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 07:50 - Jun 25 with 451 views | Whiterockin |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 23:53 - Jun 24 by DJack |
"Indeed so many people aren't interested any more that they don't even bother to vote. Most 16 year olds don't see futher into their future than the next fun thing, seeing their girlfriend, the next football match etc. "
...so give the vote to the youngsters, try to engage them and see if we get an increase in voting and political engagement. they can't be any worse than the general poulation, going by the statistics. |
Give people something worth voting for and the numbers will increase. Currently in my opinion both of the main parties offer nothing worth voting for. Large numbers may well register a protest vote as they feel that is the way to show how they feel. |  | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 09:01 - Jun 25 with 412 views | Scotia |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 07:50 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
Give people something worth voting for and the numbers will increase. Currently in my opinion both of the main parties offer nothing worth voting for. Large numbers may well register a protest vote as they feel that is the way to show how they feel. |
If more people had voted in the Senedd election we probably wouldn't have the 20mph speed limit.
There's obviously something worth voting for it's deciding who runs our lives. | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 09:16 - Jun 25 with 385 views | Whiterockin |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 09:01 - Jun 25 by Scotia |
If more people had voted in the Senedd election we probably wouldn't have the 20mph speed limit.
There's obviously something worth voting for it's deciding who runs our lives. |
Labour have implemented some policies in their manifesto for the current Senedd parliament and have completely ignored others. Saying people should have read their manifesto before voting or not is a pointless argument. In my opinion there will be an even bigger protest vote in the next Senedd election than the election next week.
As for voting to decide who will run our lives, both current leaders are useless for different reasons and neither instill me with enough confidence to vote for them. Starmer will be the next PM, but there is nothing I would like more than to have Farage sitting opposite him at PMQ. Absolutely no way would I have Farage as PM, but he would certainly keep Starmer in check throughout the next parliament. | | | |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 11:08 - Jun 25 with 343 views | onehunglow |
| Votes for Prisoners and 16 yr olds on 09:16 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
Labour have implemented some policies in their manifesto for the current Senedd parliament and have completely ignored others. Saying people should have read their manifesto before voting or not is a pointless argument. In my opinion there will be an even bigger protest vote in the next Senedd election than the election next week.
As for voting to decide who will run our lives, both current leaders are useless for different reasons and neither instill me with enough confidence to vote for them. Starmer will be the next PM, but there is nothing I would like more than to have Farage sitting opposite him at PMQ. Absolutely no way would I have Farage as PM, but he would certainly keep Starmer in check throughout the next parliament. |
Not keen on anyone called Nigel but ,as yiu say,he’d be better opposition that the craven excuse for a nan is Sunak. That said,he won’t be in the next parliament ,I think . | |
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