| Supporters meeting 6th Jan 21:58 - Jan 4 with 16302 views | judd |
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2024/01/supporters-meeting-6-th-january-2024/
All supporters should access the link and see the bullet point slides that have been put together ahead of Saturday, hopefully giving supporters time to see the options we have looked at, and how we see things as of now. We will go through them on Saturday with narrative in order to expand on the individual points.
All questions are welcomed and if you cannot be there in person then please email them to info@daletrust.co.uk. |  |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 22:14 - Jan 4 with 10388 views | 442Dale |
Had an initial look and the work that’s gone into that presentation is worthy of high praise.
Basic explanations of possible routes forward with analysis of the positives and minuses of each option.
This sort of communication is exactly what supporters need, no matter what you feel about the actual content, and something the Trust and the club can look to build upon. Please try and get along to the meeting on Saturday if you can, so further work by supporters and the Trust can have a positive impact on our football club.
Oh, and there’s a very interesting idea amongst the information provided - whether there could be a time-limited offer for fans to buy 25 shares, to be bought by a certain date (1st Feb is mentioned) This is definitely a line the Trust should pursue on behalf of fans who simply can’t commit to buying £235 worth but would have a real desire to become a smaller shareholder for an affordable amount. 25 shares would see £58.75 being put into the club - money they wouldn’t otherwise be gaining.
This offer could run alongside any of the other possible projects. |  |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 22:48 - Jan 4 with 10327 views | TalkingSutty |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 22:14 - Jan 4 by 442Dale |
Had an initial look and the work that’s gone into that presentation is worthy of high praise.
Basic explanations of possible routes forward with analysis of the positives and minuses of each option.
This sort of communication is exactly what supporters need, no matter what you feel about the actual content, and something the Trust and the club can look to build upon. Please try and get along to the meeting on Saturday if you can, so further work by supporters and the Trust can have a positive impact on our football club.
Oh, and there’s a very interesting idea amongst the information provided - whether there could be a time-limited offer for fans to buy 25 shares, to be bought by a certain date (1st Feb is mentioned) This is definitely a line the Trust should pursue on behalf of fans who simply can’t commit to buying £235 worth but would have a real desire to become a smaller shareholder for an affordable amount. 25 shares would see £58.75 being put into the club - money they wouldn’t otherwise be gaining.
This offer could run alongside any of the other possible projects. |
Agree with all of that and the work that’s gone into it is commendable. However i can’t help feeling that as a Trust and a fan base there are far more pressing problems at the moment than raising money to boost the budget etc, it feels as though nobody is addressing the real elephant in the room. The club is on the brink and the Chairman and Directors are being left to their own devices, shouldn’t we be having meeting regarding what are the fans and shareholders going to do if the worst case scenario presents itself in the next month or two? The likelyhood of a investor being in place in the next few months is extremely slim so what are we as a Trust, shareholders and fans going to do if we go into administration for example which is a real possibility. I’m sure monies will be raised as a result of this project but i’m very sceptical as to how many supporters will buy into it and donate, and if the amounts will have any real impact. Is it possible that we could be fiddling around while Rome is burning here and could a plan not be formulated to direct monetary contributions into a holding fund which could then be used to help set up a Phoenix Club for example should the worst scenario present itself. Sorry for going off at a tangent but i’m not sure we are focussing on the bigger picture here. My gut feeling is that we will be presented with investors but they won’t be the ones that we all want. Just my opinion obviously. [Post edited 4 Jan 22:55]
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 23:06 - Jan 4 with 10276 views | 442Dale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 22:48 - Jan 4 by TalkingSutty |
Agree with all of that and the work that’s gone into it is commendable. However i can’t help feeling that as a Trust and a fan base there are far more pressing problems at the moment than raising money to boost the budget etc, it feels as though nobody is addressing the real elephant in the room. The club is on the brink and the Chairman and Directors are being left to their own devices, shouldn’t we be having meeting regarding what are the fans and shareholders going to do if the worst case scenario presents itself in the next month or two? The likelyhood of a investor being in place in the next few months is extremely slim so what are we as a Trust, shareholders and fans going to do if we go into administration for example which is a real possibility. I’m sure monies will be raised as a result of this project but i’m very sceptical as to how many supporters will buy into it and donate, and if the amounts will have any real impact. Is it possible that we could be fiddling around while Rome is burning here and could a plan not be formulated to direct monetary contributions into a holding fund which could then be used to help set up a Phoenix Club for example should the worst scenario present itself. Sorry for going off at a tangent but i’m not sure we are focussing on the bigger picture here. My gut feeling is that we will be presented with investors but they won’t be the ones that we all want. Just my opinion obviously. [Post edited 4 Jan 22:55]
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Fully agree with a requirement for gaining more clarity around the club’s immediate future and what supporters can do in various scenarios over the next Few weeks/months.
These fund raising projects will have a part to play in that, but yes, it’s vital we have an idea of what is on the horizon and what it means if things take a real turn for the worse at the club. If there’s zero chance of that happening, then let’s make that clear too so there can be real focus on ongoing fund raising.
There’s a definite argument that without such clarity coming from the club to the Trust, that any money raised could be ringfenced awaiting details of how that money will make a real difference eg. ‘raising x amount, alongside other money that comes into the club, will ensure there will be no issues around finishing the season’. Again, this can be discussed on Saturday, with the option of it being put to a member vote. [Post edited 4 Jan 23:07]
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 23:25 - Jan 4 with 10244 views | TalkingSutty |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 23:06 - Jan 4 by 442Dale |
Fully agree with a requirement for gaining more clarity around the club’s immediate future and what supporters can do in various scenarios over the next Few weeks/months.
These fund raising projects will have a part to play in that, but yes, it’s vital we have an idea of what is on the horizon and what it means if things take a real turn for the worse at the club. If there’s zero chance of that happening, then let’s make that clear too so there can be real focus on ongoing fund raising.
There’s a definite argument that without such clarity coming from the club to the Trust, that any money raised could be ringfenced awaiting details of how that money will make a real difference eg. ‘raising x amount, alongside other money that comes into the club, will ensure there will be no issues around finishing the season’. Again, this can be discussed on Saturday, with the option of it being put to a member vote. [Post edited 4 Jan 23:07]
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Yes, a lot of things are up in the air at the moment and the recent AGM added to the confusion. I'd be tempted to ask for donations as a Trust fighting fund and not spend anything just yet, build up a fund and decide what to do with it when the bigger picture presents itself. There's a very real possibility that we might be fighting off a hostile takeover again in the coming months, depending on who, if anybody, decides they want the club.The Trust will need money to help with that. I'm assuming we won't just roll over as a fan base and accept anybody? To be honest I'm not even convinced that at this moment in time spending our money on player budgets is the thing we should be doing, is that the real priority when the club is in such a perilous state? Who decided on the idea because I don't recall the members being consulted?
Once the monies gone, it's gone and there might be a time soon when the Trust need that money urgently. If you take notice of RAFCBLUE's posts he's more or less spelling it out that we can't operate at this level without a rich sugar daddy or fan involvement at every level and that also means constantly digging deep by every fan to fund the club. Maybe the Trust and fans should liase with those in the Boardroom with a view to restructuring the club further down the pyramid, at a level where we aren't reliant on outside investors doing as they please with our club? At the moment it feels as though this club is the property of the Chairman and the Directors and that narrative needs to change, even if it means biting the bullet and going backwards in order to progress.
It's obvious the Chairman and Directors don't have a plan apart from off loading it so why can't the Trust, shareholders and fans get hold of it with involvement from the rugby club, local businesses and the Council. The Town Hall is opening again in a couple of months, approach the council with a view to saving professional sport in the Town and let's organise a full public meeting to rally the Town, invite councillors, politicians, the Co-Op , local businesses and the media.We're very good at banging the drum and getting the message out there, look how we galvanised the media and organised ourselves during the MH saga. It's the Trust and the fans who need to drive this and not those in the Boardroom, a delegation of volunteers who are passionate about the club and will get the message across to the Town and the wider football community. The Chairman is suggesting the fans are interfering, that's exactly what we should all be doing now though and geting hold of the club ourselves, the Trust should be front and centre of it and if those in the Boardroom don't want to go down that route then that would speak volumes. We should have done this 12 months ago. I expect others will disagree with this post which is fine but i dont see any other alternative options apart from just falling into line with those in the boardroom and accepting our lot. I think as a group of fans we are better than that, we need to find a collective fighting spirit and save the club ourselves. [Post edited 5 Jan 7:57]
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 11:08 - Jan 5 with 9800 views | KnavesmireBob |
Excellent presentation, excellent transparency.
I won't be at the meeting tomorrow but trust the Trust and those fans present to figure out the best plan and will donate what I can once that path is made clear. Best of luck, hope it's a good meeting and we have another 3 points come 5pm :) |  | | |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 11:10 - Jan 5 with 9797 views | judd |
"Who decided on the idea because I don't recall the members being consulted?"
That is the purpose of tomorrow's meeting. If there is no stomach for it then the Trust will listen to supporters and members and act accordingly.
The Ryan East signing falls within the authority of the Trust board in terms of what they can authorise before needing to consult with members. | |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 12:03 - Jan 5 with 9691 views | 100notout |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 11:10 - Jan 5 by judd |
"Who decided on the idea because I don't recall the members being consulted?"
That is the purpose of tomorrow's meeting. If there is no stomach for it then the Trust will listen to supporters and members and act accordingly.
The Ryan East signing falls within the authority of the Trust board in terms of what they can authorise before needing to consult with members. |
I agree with what TS and 442 have said earlier (and several others previously).
I can't make it on Saturday but the number 1 priority is for the Trust to establish (hopefully it has a pretty good idea already) and communicate to fans on Saturday a clear position on how the club stands financially - what ADDITIONAL funds do we we need to see through the next 2 months, or till the end of the season, or till the start of the the next season (covering the baron summer months and a period that can enable the off-loading of some big wages)?
I appreciate there are a lot of scenarios / ifs and buts but until we know this, any efforts from the Trust / fans may be futile. It is no use putting a plaster on a wound if it needs stitches. It is no use using stitches if it needs surgery. The Trust have an enormous responsibility ahead of Saturday.
Murray as a member of the board must have some clarity on the financial position. Again, I appreciate the sensitive nature of the information but this needs to be shared with the Trust Board on a strictly confidential basis so that the Trust can then establish a realistic and achievable fundraising target (however stretching it might be), show some leadership (sadly massively lacking from the BOD) and put the wheels in motion with its members / fans to achieve it.
We've shown before that if we have a clear strategy and some leadership, fans WILL rally round and we WILL achieve what we wanted to.
If the directors are unwilling to share the financial position in more detail then IMHO and very sadly, as TS says, the Trust must merely accept donations to cover the worst case scenario - once the money (donations from fans) is gone its gone - you can't keep going back to the well. That might end up with administration / points deduction and the BOD will then receive only a fraction of their "investment" back - Que Sera.
The BOD are gambling everything on a sale to an "investor" (aka "opportunist" or "vulture" or "someone who wants to make a quick buck" depending on who the buyer is). That's a high risk strategy and not one that we want. | |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:01 - Jan 5 with 9599 views | Nafelad |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 12:03 - Jan 5 by 100notout |
I agree with what TS and 442 have said earlier (and several others previously).
I can't make it on Saturday but the number 1 priority is for the Trust to establish (hopefully it has a pretty good idea already) and communicate to fans on Saturday a clear position on how the club stands financially - what ADDITIONAL funds do we we need to see through the next 2 months, or till the end of the season, or till the start of the the next season (covering the baron summer months and a period that can enable the off-loading of some big wages)?
I appreciate there are a lot of scenarios / ifs and buts but until we know this, any efforts from the Trust / fans may be futile. It is no use putting a plaster on a wound if it needs stitches. It is no use using stitches if it needs surgery. The Trust have an enormous responsibility ahead of Saturday.
Murray as a member of the board must have some clarity on the financial position. Again, I appreciate the sensitive nature of the information but this needs to be shared with the Trust Board on a strictly confidential basis so that the Trust can then establish a realistic and achievable fundraising target (however stretching it might be), show some leadership (sadly massively lacking from the BOD) and put the wheels in motion with its members / fans to achieve it.
We've shown before that if we have a clear strategy and some leadership, fans WILL rally round and we WILL achieve what we wanted to.
If the directors are unwilling to share the financial position in more detail then IMHO and very sadly, as TS says, the Trust must merely accept donations to cover the worst case scenario - once the money (donations from fans) is gone its gone - you can't keep going back to the well. That might end up with administration / points deduction and the BOD will then receive only a fraction of their "investment" back - Que Sera.
The BOD are gambling everything on a sale to an "investor" (aka "opportunist" or "vulture" or "someone who wants to make a quick buck" depending on who the buyer is). That's a high risk strategy and not one that we want. |
Our BOD seem to be adopting the 'mushroom' approach to management, i.e. keep everyone in the dark and pile **** on them occasionally. |  |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:27 - Jan 5 with 9540 views | 442Dale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 12:03 - Jan 5 by 100notout |
I agree with what TS and 442 have said earlier (and several others previously).
I can't make it on Saturday but the number 1 priority is for the Trust to establish (hopefully it has a pretty good idea already) and communicate to fans on Saturday a clear position on how the club stands financially - what ADDITIONAL funds do we we need to see through the next 2 months, or till the end of the season, or till the start of the the next season (covering the baron summer months and a period that can enable the off-loading of some big wages)?
I appreciate there are a lot of scenarios / ifs and buts but until we know this, any efforts from the Trust / fans may be futile. It is no use putting a plaster on a wound if it needs stitches. It is no use using stitches if it needs surgery. The Trust have an enormous responsibility ahead of Saturday.
Murray as a member of the board must have some clarity on the financial position. Again, I appreciate the sensitive nature of the information but this needs to be shared with the Trust Board on a strictly confidential basis so that the Trust can then establish a realistic and achievable fundraising target (however stretching it might be), show some leadership (sadly massively lacking from the BOD) and put the wheels in motion with its members / fans to achieve it.
We've shown before that if we have a clear strategy and some leadership, fans WILL rally round and we WILL achieve what we wanted to.
If the directors are unwilling to share the financial position in more detail then IMHO and very sadly, as TS says, the Trust must merely accept donations to cover the worst case scenario - once the money (donations from fans) is gone its gone - you can't keep going back to the well. That might end up with administration / points deduction and the BOD will then receive only a fraction of their "investment" back - Que Sera.
The BOD are gambling everything on a sale to an "investor" (aka "opportunist" or "vulture" or "someone who wants to make a quick buck" depending on who the buyer is). That's a high risk strategy and not one that we want. |
As you can’t make it, will do my best to get across the main points of your thoughts.
There is a real conversation to be had around whether any funds raised would require, as you say, sufficient information coming from the club to satisfy the Trust/Trust members/supporters that their efforts would not be the sticking plaster you’ve mentioned.
It is not an unreasonable demand from a fanbase so willing to help. | |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:40 - Jan 5 with 9534 views | Rodingdale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 11:10 - Jan 5 by judd |
"Who decided on the idea because I don't recall the members being consulted?"
That is the purpose of tomorrow's meeting. If there is no stomach for it then the Trust will listen to supporters and members and act accordingly.
The Ryan East signing falls within the authority of the Trust board in terms of what they can authorise before needing to consult with members. |
The meeting is called squad builder meeting, not future trust fundraising options or something which would lead an attendee to believe there was more than one realistic option for discussion. The presentation is clearly heavily supporting the squad builder proposal, even down to what it’s going to be called. So it very much feels like that’s what we’re doing. Yet the sentiment on this message board is very much more sceptical that what is required. At this crucial stage in the life of our club, a more open consultative process is called for than a short notice meeting which the trust admit itself will likely exclude exiles - train strikes and just after Christmas, make the fixture a fairly unattractive one for exiles to attend.
So giving it all “that’s the purpose of the meeting” is quite disingenuous in my opinion. | | | |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:50 - Jan 5 with 9497 views | 442Dale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:40 - Jan 5 by Rodingdale |
The meeting is called squad builder meeting, not future trust fundraising options or something which would lead an attendee to believe there was more than one realistic option for discussion. The presentation is clearly heavily supporting the squad builder proposal, even down to what it’s going to be called. So it very much feels like that’s what we’re doing. Yet the sentiment on this message board is very much more sceptical that what is required. At this crucial stage in the life of our club, a more open consultative process is called for than a short notice meeting which the trust admit itself will likely exclude exiles - train strikes and just after Christmas, make the fixture a fairly unattractive one for exiles to attend.
So giving it all “that’s the purpose of the meeting” is quite disingenuous in my opinion. |
Whilst there are some concerns, the Trust are doing their best in very difficult circumstances here. Yes, the meeting has now clearly moved away from its initial title, but that’s to their credit that the concerns have been recognised. The presentation reflects that as well.
We’ve now seen further questions being raised and the Trust will be fully aware they may need to be addressed before any decision is made. As for the timing, I’m just glad it’s been arranged quickly. Far too often in the past things have been left to meander, and whilst of course it won’t suit everyone, there is something happening as soon as it possibly can. We literally cannot waste any more time. That’s gone on for so long and it’s played a massive role in allowing this situation to develop.
Not dismissing some of your points at all, and I would really hope you can email the Trust with your thoughts as they’ve advised ahead of the meeting. Also, happy to take any questions forward should you wish to PM them. [Post edited 5 Jan 13:52]
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:50 - Jan 5 with 9506 views | fitzochris |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:40 - Jan 5 by Rodingdale |
The meeting is called squad builder meeting, not future trust fundraising options or something which would lead an attendee to believe there was more than one realistic option for discussion. The presentation is clearly heavily supporting the squad builder proposal, even down to what it’s going to be called. So it very much feels like that’s what we’re doing. Yet the sentiment on this message board is very much more sceptical that what is required. At this crucial stage in the life of our club, a more open consultative process is called for than a short notice meeting which the trust admit itself will likely exclude exiles - train strikes and just after Christmas, make the fixture a fairly unattractive one for exiles to attend.
So giving it all “that’s the purpose of the meeting” is quite disingenuous in my opinion. |
I think Judd has done an excellent job compiling that presentation and, if read thoroughly, you will see it does offer many different ways of fundraising to be discussed.
Personally, I am a fan of being able to buy 25 shares, as I find the minimum of £230, as stipulated by the club, outside my financial capability this soon after Christmas. I would happily pay £60 for 25 though.
The monthly standing order is also a good option to raise funds. I could commit £20 a month to help fund the squad. Naturally it would rely on many doing the same to make it meaningful, but what else is there right now?
The wider point about the overall health of the club cannot be ignored, however. McNulty having to get his boots back on underlines how parlous our situation is. |  |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 14:00 - Jan 5 with 9457 views | Rodingdale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:50 - Jan 5 by fitzochris |
I think Judd has done an excellent job compiling that presentation and, if read thoroughly, you will see it does offer many different ways of fundraising to be discussed.
Personally, I am a fan of being able to buy 25 shares, as I find the minimum of £230, as stipulated by the club, outside my financial capability this soon after Christmas. I would happily pay £60 for 25 though.
The monthly standing order is also a good option to raise funds. I could commit £20 a month to help fund the squad. Naturally it would rely on many doing the same to make it meaningful, but what else is there right now?
The wider point about the overall health of the club cannot be ignored, however. McNulty having to get his boots back on underlines how parlous our situation is. |
Yes, we are eternally grateful etc etc.
But the point is we have 800 or 900 Trust members, how many will attend on Sat? I think 28 attended the last short notice meeting. A tiny fraction of the membership and in no way describes consultation.
For what it’s worth if the trust launched a general fighting fund or trust share buying scheme (relaunch) I too would commit.
Giving the RAFC board money at this point is not something I would do because trust is gone. | | | |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 14:24 - Jan 5 with 9377 views | 442Dale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 14:00 - Jan 5 by Rodingdale |
Yes, we are eternally grateful etc etc.
But the point is we have 800 or 900 Trust members, how many will attend on Sat? I think 28 attended the last short notice meeting. A tiny fraction of the membership and in no way describes consultation.
For what it’s worth if the trust launched a general fighting fund or trust share buying scheme (relaunch) I too would commit.
Giving the RAFC board money at this point is not something I would do because trust is gone. |
But what would you do differently?
There has to be the option for a meeting to listen to all fans who can attend and all others can email should they wish.
Otherwise time passes. | |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:04 - Jan 5 with 9302 views | TalkingSutty |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 14:24 - Jan 5 by 442Dale |
But what would you do differently?
There has to be the option for a meeting to listen to all fans who can attend and all others can email should they wish.
Otherwise time passes. |
In my opinion the presentation and discussion that is scheduled for tomorrow should be taking place in front of a far wider audience. I've just spoken to two Dale fans who aren't Trust members and they arent aware of the meeting. Will we get 100 people in attendance, if we do that means that roughly 96% of season ticket holders haven't turned up. It becomes a bit of a pointless exercise if we are relying on so few people to commit and donate money.
Why not publicise this meeting properly, utilise the local media, pay for a advertisement on a local radio station and use social media to share and spread the word? Invite not only the fans to attend but also local businesses and businessmen, the CO-OP reps etc, the public of Rochdale, councillors and politicians.
Hold the meeting in the Ratcliffe or the Town Hall and have presentations from the Chairman and also the Trust, fully outlying the severity we find ourselves in. Followed by an appeal for everybody in the room to help preserve professional football in the Town..then ask for people to come forward with pledges and offers of financial help in return for hospitality at the club etc.
I don't understand why the club and the Trust are not going big on this and engaging the whole of the Town in our hour of need. Contributions from the fans isn't going to stop the dam from bursting i'm afraid. Is there a appetite from those in the Boardroom to do all of that, or are they more interested in recouping their outlay via outside investors? We've got another Bury on our hands here and we need to start making a proper noise about it before the situation becomes irretrievable [Post edited 5 Jan 15:16]
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:07 - Jan 5 with 9287 views | Rodingdale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 14:24 - Jan 5 by 442Dale |
But what would you do differently?
There has to be the option for a meeting to listen to all fans who can attend and all others can email should they wish.
Otherwise time passes. |
Engage meaningfully with the whole membership. By all means available. Meetings are fine but if such small numbers attend meetings on a Saturday before a match, then that’s only a starting point.
The trust should be doing properly informed surveys, with fully articulated options, and consequences explained and/or sample surveys by telephone from a cross section of members and/or drop ins before (say) four league games, with questionaries available.
Who’s going to do it? If the trust need admin support to fully engage, then fine, fundraise for that. We got free legal advice recently I seem to remember; you yourself bang on about the lack of follow up from meeting to meeting, how much would a part time secretary be?
If the trust membership is not widely engaged, then what’s the point in having a trust with 947 members? Just a missed opportunity. | | | |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:14 - Jan 5 with 9252 views | A_Newby |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 13:50 - Jan 5 by fitzochris |
I think Judd has done an excellent job compiling that presentation and, if read thoroughly, you will see it does offer many different ways of fundraising to be discussed.
Personally, I am a fan of being able to buy 25 shares, as I find the minimum of £230, as stipulated by the club, outside my financial capability this soon after Christmas. I would happily pay £60 for 25 though.
The monthly standing order is also a good option to raise funds. I could commit £20 a month to help fund the squad. Naturally it would rely on many doing the same to make it meaningful, but what else is there right now?
The wider point about the overall health of the club cannot be ignored, however. McNulty having to get his boots back on underlines how parlous our situation is. |
I similarly to you provisionally support the Trust’s initiative to provide funds to “build the squad”. The Trust raising cash for the squad from voluntary fan donations seems reasonable.
Like you my caveat is providing that a large number of adult Dale fans voluntarily join the scheme.
By this I mean 1,000 fans each paying around £5 a month raising £5,000 every month rather than 50 fans each paying £20 a month raising £1,000 every month.
What would be the monthly target for money to be raised?
In the proposed scheme however, I do not see any advantage to the trust or fans in simply gifting the money to the club instead of using the money to purchase more shares. Both options would put the same amount of capital into the club. (Woking buy more shares with their scheme)
Buying more shares may not give the Trust more influence with the board but if the Trust eventually reach 25% ownership of the club it would provide protection for the ground.
The trust holding more shares also has another advantage. If in the worst-case scenario, the assets of the club need to be liquidated to pay off any outstanding debts, then any capital left in the company after these are paid would be shared between the shareholders. The more shares the trust has the more money the trust would then have to launch a phoenix club.
This is partly why on another thread I was querying the value of the club’s main asset, the ground, if sold for house building. |  | | |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:23 - Jan 5 with 9224 views | TalkingSutty |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:07 - Jan 5 by Rodingdale |
Engage meaningfully with the whole membership. By all means available. Meetings are fine but if such small numbers attend meetings on a Saturday before a match, then that’s only a starting point.
The trust should be doing properly informed surveys, with fully articulated options, and consequences explained and/or sample surveys by telephone from a cross section of members and/or drop ins before (say) four league games, with questionaries available.
Who’s going to do it? If the trust need admin support to fully engage, then fine, fundraise for that. We got free legal advice recently I seem to remember; you yourself bang on about the lack of follow up from meeting to meeting, how much would a part time secretary be?
If the trust membership is not widely engaged, then what’s the point in having a trust with 947 members? Just a missed opportunity. |
Great points but about two thirds of our home support aren't Trust members. They are the most important people at this moment in time when we are asking for fans to donate. I would suggest that very few of them are even aware there is a meeting tomorrow, a show of hands in the room will reveal if that's true. | | | |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:24 - Jan 5 with 9206 views | 442Dale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:07 - Jan 5 by Rodingdale |
Engage meaningfully with the whole membership. By all means available. Meetings are fine but if such small numbers attend meetings on a Saturday before a match, then that’s only a starting point.
The trust should be doing properly informed surveys, with fully articulated options, and consequences explained and/or sample surveys by telephone from a cross section of members and/or drop ins before (say) four league games, with questionaries available.
Who’s going to do it? If the trust need admin support to fully engage, then fine, fundraise for that. We got free legal advice recently I seem to remember; you yourself bang on about the lack of follow up from meeting to meeting, how much would a part time secretary be?
If the trust membership is not widely engaged, then what’s the point in having a trust with 947 members? Just a missed opportunity. |
And I fully agree with the Trust looking at improving their processes and engaging with fans as effectively and quickly as possible. In the two weeks and one day since the club AGM when information came out about the shares being available to supporters again, they have made visible amendments to the structure of the meeting, provided a comprehensive presentation to supporters and listened to opinions in terms of making it clear they will be guided by fans on routes forward.
Hopefully this can be progressed further at the meeting, with input from as many people as possible either those present or those willing to take their time sending in ideas/offers of support/constructive criticism via email before tomorrow.
At that stage, this can all be looked at by the Trust - with possibly the support of fans in a sub-committee - and a vote could take place on what happens next. The one thing we can’t do is waste anymore time debating what could and possibly should have done better, we can only do our best to support a group of volunteers doing their best to make a real positive difference and not leave it as so often has happened in the past.
The Trust are far from perfect, they’ll admit as much themselves. They’ve been told enough times as well by people like us on here as well, but if we spend hours discussing where things have gone wrong before, nothing will actually change. And to be honest, the change has been visible recently - that presentation is a good example of that. Let’s try and make it work. | |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:26 - Jan 5 with 9196 views | 442Dale |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:23 - Jan 5 by TalkingSutty |
Great points but about two thirds of our home support aren't Trust members. They are the most important people at this moment in time when we are asking for fans to donate. I would suggest that very few of them are even aware there is a meeting tomorrow, a show of hands in the room will reveal if that's true. |
I’d agree that as much as possible should be done to get the word around that there’s a meeting tomorrow. The Trust can do so much using their own site, but yes as many avenues as possible should be utilised to promote it.
It’s a valid point, but it doesn’t make the meeting any less vital. | |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:27 - Jan 5 with 9205 views | TalkingSutty |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:14 - Jan 5 by A_Newby |
I similarly to you provisionally support the Trust’s initiative to provide funds to “build the squad”. The Trust raising cash for the squad from voluntary fan donations seems reasonable.
Like you my caveat is providing that a large number of adult Dale fans voluntarily join the scheme.
By this I mean 1,000 fans each paying around £5 a month raising £5,000 every month rather than 50 fans each paying £20 a month raising £1,000 every month.
What would be the monthly target for money to be raised?
In the proposed scheme however, I do not see any advantage to the trust or fans in simply gifting the money to the club instead of using the money to purchase more shares. Both options would put the same amount of capital into the club. (Woking buy more shares with their scheme)
Buying more shares may not give the Trust more influence with the board but if the Trust eventually reach 25% ownership of the club it would provide protection for the ground.
The trust holding more shares also has another advantage. If in the worst-case scenario, the assets of the club need to be liquidated to pay off any outstanding debts, then any capital left in the company after these are paid would be shared between the shareholders. The more shares the trust has the more money the trust would then have to launch a phoenix club.
This is partly why on another thread I was querying the value of the club’s main asset, the ground, if sold for house building. |
Would there be any merit in fans donating their shares to the Trust? They can have mine tomorrow if it would be beneficial.
Somebody has suggested on Facebook that if each season ticket holder donated just £1 everytime they entered the turnstile we would raise about £2k every home game. [Post edited 5 Jan 15:37]
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 17:06 - Jan 5 with 8988 views | D_Alien |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 15:04 - Jan 5 by TalkingSutty |
In my opinion the presentation and discussion that is scheduled for tomorrow should be taking place in front of a far wider audience. I've just spoken to two Dale fans who aren't Trust members and they arent aware of the meeting. Will we get 100 people in attendance, if we do that means that roughly 96% of season ticket holders haven't turned up. It becomes a bit of a pointless exercise if we are relying on so few people to commit and donate money.
Why not publicise this meeting properly, utilise the local media, pay for a advertisement on a local radio station and use social media to share and spread the word? Invite not only the fans to attend but also local businesses and businessmen, the CO-OP reps etc, the public of Rochdale, councillors and politicians.
Hold the meeting in the Ratcliffe or the Town Hall and have presentations from the Chairman and also the Trust, fully outlying the severity we find ourselves in. Followed by an appeal for everybody in the room to help preserve professional football in the Town..then ask for people to come forward with pledges and offers of financial help in return for hospitality at the club etc.
I don't understand why the club and the Trust are not going big on this and engaging the whole of the Town in our hour of need. Contributions from the fans isn't going to stop the dam from bursting i'm afraid. Is there a appetite from those in the Boardroom to do all of that, or are they more interested in recouping their outlay via outside investors? We've got another Bury on our hands here and we need to start making a proper noise about it before the situation becomes irretrievable [Post edited 5 Jan 15:16]
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You mention the Co-op
Absolutely nothing would attract attention more than relaunching the Trust as the Dale Co-operative Trust, with a wider appeal than just hardcore fans. What could be more distinctive than reference to the one thing this town is known for, pretty much on a world wide basis (Japanese tourists turn up at the Toad Lane museum)
The T&Cs of membership don't matter as much as gaining support from the borough beyond those who turn up at the COA
There are reasons why the Trust membership started to lapse after the fantastic efforts of 2021/22. There are, perhaps, reasons why the Trust wouldn't gain enough traction without a rebrand. There's a certain amount of new impetus within the Trust Board (as we see with the presentation) but a few dozen loyalists just isn't going to cut it
I'm another who can't make it tomorrow, but until there's some thinking outside the box it'll just be more of the same, and another wasted opportunity
[Post edited 5 Jan 17:10]
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 18:08 - Jan 5 with 8883 views | Marjorie_Plane |
Life is for living, going forwards and someday trying to understand it looking backwards. As many have alluded to, it's time to look forward. The time for reflection is over. Issues need raising and things need saying. The dwarf on the other side of the hill is now the giant standing in front of us. It's quite clear the board isn't listening. They have their own agenda.
There have been a plethora of great ideas and initiatives put forward over the last two and a half years in order to grow the club. Yet, we have gone backwards, and I feel the tipping point has been passed.
The administrator's question will be, "What did you do to grow revenue?" We may have to leave others to answer that. We've done what we could.
Now, the options are stark:
1. Sell the club to a legitimate owner like Frank Rothwell. However, finding one at this point seems unlikely. The way the club is currently being run reflects poorly on us in the shop window.
2. Sell the club to the highest bidder. As the clock ticks down and finances dwindle, the sharks are circling. The board may be tempted to sell out to anyone just to recoup their losses. "We had no alternative" can be heard whistling down the corridors of power and we know how that story ends with our near misses with MH and JNG.
3. Administration. Forget share allocations and the Morris Rule. It's game over. The highest bidder takes all.
Despite all this, the one constant since 1907 has been the supporters, and I believe that's where our focus should be. Someone mentioned throwing good money after bad with the shares and the squad builder fund. They may be right. So let's start looking after ourselves, the loyal fans. We can't control what happens in the boardroom, but we can control our own actions. We need to prepare for the future, however painful it may be. The life rafts need to be lowered.
We owe it to the likes of David Clough, David Kilpatrick, Tom Nicholl, Paul Hazelhurst, and all those who came before us. What would they say if they knew what was happening and what as fans we were doing about it? |  | | |
| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 19:52 - Jan 5 with 8672 views | judd |
I'm sure that the Trust can look forward to a constructive and informative email in advance of tomorrows' meeting, outlining - perhaps- how to co duct a telephone survey, including sample size and demographic, survey questions, and how the data will be recorded, analysed and reported upon.
To not engage, given the level of condescending pontificating, may well be disingenuous.
It may also advise why, with only 2500 fans, we bother having a club. | |
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| Supporters meeting 6th Jan on 20:09 - Jan 5 with 8638 views | blackdogblue |
My thoughts for what they are worth…
The meeting has been changed from an 11am start to a 12pm start in the Racky on a match day.
The Racky is open to home & away fans I presume at the same time & nowhere have I seen in any email update from the trust, please bring your membership card for this season to be allowed entry to what is effectively an importantTrust Members meeting or is it an open house?
Many people especially those of us / you who have Kids/Teenagers have spent a fortune over Christmas / New year are skint & looking a long way away from the end of the month before payday…
I agree with Fitz.. 100 minimum shares is a lot to cough up as above, 25 is better to have £50 of something rather than 100% of nothing and may spike more interest at this time of year.
The Trust & I know they are all volunteers & appluded for what they do as volunteers… have access to us all for an email poll for the best options for a meeting time / date.. let’s be honest here.. the club own the Racky & it’s shut 90% of the time… if there is not enough how about opening the front door & having it upstairs?,
Ohh & whilst I’m at it… read the update about smoking & the need to review steward costs etc… correct me if I’m wrong as not been for a while as you know but there used to be 2 people on the front door at half time telling you if you go out you ain’t getting back in 🤷♂️… why if they are getting paid to stand there and you get a token on entry can’t they do it??? |  |
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