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I have to say Baz, that I'm in admiration of your continual support for Gareth Ainsworth & in believing that he is a good manager. It took quite a lot of work to make WW the most despired club in League One, but he achieved that!
Personally I feel that he doesn't even rate as a reasonable manager, but I accept that I'm biased against anything that comes out of that place in South Bucks!
What does astonish me though, is your claim that he would be the right man to lead us in L1 due to his promotion record & ignoring his relegations. People point to the lack of points deduction for Derby as the reason for going down from The Championship. A valid point, but no more so than reaching the play offs due to points per game, when their games in hand were all against the top sides in L1.
If nothing else, his inability to react while a game is in progress (Dobson & Hall just as guilty) is more than enough reason to believe that a different person in charge MIGHT produce better results.
Good point re GA and League One, I mean it did take him a few seasons to get them up to the Championship and even then it was only for one season (although arguably Derby should have gone down in their place).
And as we've seen with other 'big' clubs, no guarantee of an immediate return.
Our current Manager had plenty of must win games last season that we didn't win.
Nothing's changed, It's still the same shyte.
Nothing's changed.
GA has done just about as well as Neil Critchley - the players are the common denominator here not the manager.
ps. Dickie got MOM and the winner in Bristol City's victory over Coventry on Saturday. I'm sure Kakay is doing his best but he needs to be dropped. Any right sided centre back is going to struggle playing alongside. We're being constantly targeted down our right and have been since last season (when Laird was unavailable).
We haven't had a viable replacement up until now - hoping Canon can be the difference. Agree with Baz that we should give GA more time.
GA has done just about as well as Neil Critchley - the players are the common denominator here not the manager.
ps. Dickie got MOM and the winner in Bristol City's victory over Coventry on Saturday. I'm sure Kakay is doing his best but he needs to be dropped. Any right sided centre back is going to struggle playing alongside. We're being constantly targeted down our right and have been since last season (when Laird was unavailable).
We haven't had a viable replacement up until now - hoping Canon can be the difference. Agree with Baz that we should give GA more time.
How much more time?
These are the bare, grim statistics. 5 wins in 25 16 losses in 25 19 goals scored 47 conceded
As Einstein never said about insanity, how long do you keep doing the same thing and expect different results? Extrapolated over a season those stats equal 35 points with an horrendous 86 goals conceded..
It's not working, probably never has, the experiment has failed.
I've been saying for years that if you keep changing the manager without ever improving then the manager isn't really your problem. I said Warburton did a decent job overall and shouldn't have been sacked. The problems at QPR are all above the manager's head. Those problems have now manifested in a team that is always going to struggle to stay in this league, because it needs improving in every area but mismanagement means there is no money to do that and because there are no goals in the team.
However, Ainsworth is sadly out of his depth. I don't know if somebody else would keep us up, so poor is the team, but we'd surely stand a better chance. Some of the stuff he's doing and saying is nuts now.
Agreed. *Some* of the problems are ones that predate Ainsworth's arrival but some are definitely of his own making.
I watched a bit of the W Ham game yesterday and was amazed at Ward-Prowse's corners. What was that sorcery, accurately looping the ball into the danger area, time after time? I'm sure he was breaking some rule or other, like the one we abide by which states that you are not allowed to practise taking or defending set pieces.
Set pieces: This is what I mean, they are is, to a certain extent, a controllable, however awful the squad is and however good the opposition is. Set pieces can be planned for and practised so that a poor team can at least give themselves some sort of an attacking threat.
Yet what do we do? Well, in open play, we are happy to play aerial passes forward from deep, but when we get a corner in the dying embers of the game - you know, that set piece which is actually near the opposition's goal - we go short. Why? It's insane Why are we so happy to play it long and high in open play but less inclined to when we are actually close to the other team's goal, 2-1 down with seconds left?
It could be that Ainsworth has had them practising set pieces, including taking high corners, for hours on end and the players are for some reason ignoring his instructions, but I don't think they would perfect something in training then deliberately muck it up in an actual game.
I'm waffling now but net-net, it feels to me that set pieces are one area which a new manager could definitely improve, even with the current poor, thin squad. The fact they are terrible at the moment is surely down to Ainsworth, much as I like him as a person.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2023 15:04]
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I have to say Baz, that I'm in admiration of your continual support for Gareth Ainsworth & in believing that he is a good manager. It took quite a lot of work to make WW the most despired club in League One, but he achieved that!
Personally I feel that he doesn't even rate as a reasonable manager, but I accept that I'm biased against anything that comes out of that place in South Bucks!
What does astonish me though, is your claim that he would be the right man to lead us in L1 due to his promotion record & ignoring his relegations. People point to the lack of points deduction for Derby as the reason for going down from The Championship. A valid point, but no more so than reaching the play offs due to points per game, when their games in hand were all against the top sides in L1.
If nothing else, his inability to react while a game is in progress (Dobson & Hall just as guilty) is more than enough reason to believe that a different person in charge MIGHT produce better results.
It’s not even support of Ainsworth to be honest. I have eyes.
I just don’t think he’s why we are where we are. Norf says as much.
Can't help but feel a lot of the thinking here is based on the false apprehension that there's one overriding reason for this mess. There isn't, you can tick as many boxes as you like: long term mismanagement at board level, long term ineptitude with player acquisition, long term failure to bring through youth players, the quality of the current squad and finally, the competence of the current manager.
Disaster often happens because multiple factors coincide, and that's exactly what we've got. Ainsworth is the final aggravating factor and he's also the one most easily and most rapidly changed.
Can't help but feel a lot of the thinking here is based on the false apprehension that there's one overriding reason for this mess. There isn't, you can tick as many boxes as you like: long term mismanagement at board level, long term ineptitude with player acquisition, long term failure to bring through youth players, the quality of the current squad and finally, the competence of the current manager.
Disaster often happens because multiple factors coincide, and that's exactly what we've got. Ainsworth is the final aggravating factor and he's also the one most easily and most rapidly changed.
Agree with all that, apart from the rapidly changed bit.
A change, rapid or otherwise, may put us over our FFP limit. Easy to call for expensive to do.
I wonder if it’s just a matter of agreeing a cheaper package.
It’s not even support of Ainsworth to be honest. I have eyes.
I just don’t think he’s why we are where we are. Norf says as much.
Hardly anyone has said it’s all Ainsworth’s fault . Far from it actually . We are all aware the hand he’s been dealt , the mess every aspect of the club is in, the fragile and pathetic nature of this set of players etc etc etc
But we have to TRY something different with a different approach to somehow get some of this players set up to perform. It might not work but we have to try. Not trying and just drifting with no response is criminal .
You say ‘you have eyes’…but actually thinking GA can somehow get this lot wining games is simply blind faith .
Can't help but feel a lot of the thinking here is based on the false apprehension that there's one overriding reason for this mess. There isn't, you can tick as many boxes as you like: long term mismanagement at board level, long term ineptitude with player acquisition, long term failure to bring through youth players, the quality of the current squad and finally, the competence of the current manager.
Disaster often happens because multiple factors coincide, and that's exactly what we've got. Ainsworth is the final aggravating factor and he's also the one most easily and most rapidly changed.
There are so many reasons for why we are here, you can drive yourself mad with them but the key question the owners should be asking is what can we do now to make the rest of the season better and avoid the drop.
The obvious short term change is the manager, if we're that hard up surely we can spread his payout over several months rather than a lump sum out of this years accounts. That doesn't guarantee anything, even Warnock may end up failing with this squad but it's a change they have to make. This team won't get magically better with a new manager we'll need a good one who does an outstanding job but the current one is not going to turn this around now.
Long term getting in a DOF, a new CEO and a new Chairman would top of the list for me, get ourselves in a position where regardless of what league we are in next season we have a structure in place at the top of the club and some sort of plan for the next 3-5 years
Good point re GA and League One, I mean it did take him a few seasons to get them up to the Championship and even then it was only for one season (although arguably Derby should have gone down in their place).
And as we've seen with other 'big' clubs, no guarantee of an immediate return.
Wycombe fan here., These posts about GA's record at Wycombe do ignore a lot of context, and the point of why he was so highly regarded coming out of here.
Wycombe were a non league club until the early 90s. They had only finished above 11th in League One once (under the legendary Martin O'Neill) until Ainsworth. GA took the club to their three highest finishes in their history, and also four of the top five. Even getting them promoted out of L2 to begin with and staying in L1 the first season up was miraculous, as the club did not have two pennies to rub together, being fan owned.
The covid season is also massively misrepresented. Wycombe were in the top four all season from the very beginning, mostly top two, and dropped out right before the season paused because their game against Bury (who had been expelled) would have been that weekend. They dropped into a group on 59 and 60 points with six teams all bunched together, the only difference being Wycombe had played a game less, so keeping them out of the playoffs would have simply penalized them for not playing that game.
Wycombe then went up to the Championship, where they had a budget of 4 million against a division average of 30 million. The two main players Wycombe bought to help out (a striker and central defender) were then injured for the whole first half of the season. Wycombe lost their first seven games and were cut severely adrift, but then went on a tear with top six form over the final ten games, barely missing out. It was an incredible effort by a financially overmatched club.
For anyone to say "it took several seasons for GA to get Wycombe promoted to the Championship" or "GA got Wycombe relegated to League One" it completely misses the point that this is the high watermark in the history of a very small club. It would be like saying in 2050 "it took manager X ten years to get QPR into the Champions League so he is obviously terrible", for comparison.
It's clearly not working out for GA at QPR, and it reminds me of Nathan Jones at Luton, who was incredible there in both spells but looked awful at Stoke and Southampton. But there is a reason GA was so highly regarded for his work at Wycombe. We are one of the two or three smallest, traditional non-league clubs (along with Yeovil and Burton) to ever see a season in the Championship. It just has not translated to a bigger club.
Wycombe fan here., These posts about GA's record at Wycombe do ignore a lot of context, and the point of why he was so highly regarded coming out of here.
Wycombe were a non league club until the early 90s. They had only finished above 11th in League One once (under the legendary Martin O'Neill) until Ainsworth. GA took the club to their three highest finishes in their history, and also four of the top five. Even getting them promoted out of L2 to begin with and staying in L1 the first season up was miraculous, as the club did not have two pennies to rub together, being fan owned.
The covid season is also massively misrepresented. Wycombe were in the top four all season from the very beginning, mostly top two, and dropped out right before the season paused because their game against Bury (who had been expelled) would have been that weekend. They dropped into a group on 59 and 60 points with six teams all bunched together, the only difference being Wycombe had played a game less, so keeping them out of the playoffs would have simply penalized them for not playing that game.
Wycombe then went up to the Championship, where they had a budget of 4 million against a division average of 30 million. The two main players Wycombe bought to help out (a striker and central defender) were then injured for the whole first half of the season. Wycombe lost their first seven games and were cut severely adrift, but then went on a tear with top six form over the final ten games, barely missing out. It was an incredible effort by a financially overmatched club.
For anyone to say "it took several seasons for GA to get Wycombe promoted to the Championship" or "GA got Wycombe relegated to League One" it completely misses the point that this is the high watermark in the history of a very small club. It would be like saying in 2050 "it took manager X ten years to get QPR into the Champions League so he is obviously terrible", for comparison.
It's clearly not working out for GA at QPR, and it reminds me of Nathan Jones at Luton, who was incredible there in both spells but looked awful at Stoke and Southampton. But there is a reason GA was so highly regarded for his work at Wycombe. We are one of the two or three smallest, traditional non-league clubs (along with Yeovil and Burton) to ever see a season in the Championship. It just has not translated to a bigger club.
yeah have to say his spell with us hasn't worked but that shouldn't change the fact he did a great job at Wycombe. I don't think he's a bad manager and he could well go on and do well elsewhere just hasn't worked out for him here
Wycombe fan here., These posts about GA's record at Wycombe do ignore a lot of context, and the point of why he was so highly regarded coming out of here.
Wycombe were a non league club until the early 90s. They had only finished above 11th in League One once (under the legendary Martin O'Neill) until Ainsworth. GA took the club to their three highest finishes in their history, and also four of the top five. Even getting them promoted out of L2 to begin with and staying in L1 the first season up was miraculous, as the club did not have two pennies to rub together, being fan owned.
The covid season is also massively misrepresented. Wycombe were in the top four all season from the very beginning, mostly top two, and dropped out right before the season paused because their game against Bury (who had been expelled) would have been that weekend. They dropped into a group on 59 and 60 points with six teams all bunched together, the only difference being Wycombe had played a game less, so keeping them out of the playoffs would have simply penalized them for not playing that game.
Wycombe then went up to the Championship, where they had a budget of 4 million against a division average of 30 million. The two main players Wycombe bought to help out (a striker and central defender) were then injured for the whole first half of the season. Wycombe lost their first seven games and were cut severely adrift, but then went on a tear with top six form over the final ten games, barely missing out. It was an incredible effort by a financially overmatched club.
For anyone to say "it took several seasons for GA to get Wycombe promoted to the Championship" or "GA got Wycombe relegated to League One" it completely misses the point that this is the high watermark in the history of a very small club. It would be like saying in 2050 "it took manager X ten years to get QPR into the Champions League so he is obviously terrible", for comparison.
It's clearly not working out for GA at QPR, and it reminds me of Nathan Jones at Luton, who was incredible there in both spells but looked awful at Stoke and Southampton. But there is a reason GA was so highly regarded for his work at Wycombe. We are one of the two or three smallest, traditional non-league clubs (along with Yeovil and Burton) to ever see a season in the Championship. It just has not translated to a bigger club.
As a Wycombe fan, weird as it is to say, I thought GA might struggle with his team building as soon as I saw the QPR haka, which was like an episode of The Office. But when he did the same thing at Wycombe, everyone threw themselves into it and had a great time. At that point everyone thought it was genius, and a great development day idea, but he had complete buy-in with a group of veterans and big characters like Bayo.
I remember at the time thinking what great fun it looked like. But when the same thing was attempted at QPR, it was a painful watch. I think the whole thing encapsulates the difference between GA having made a L1 club in his own image over a long period, compared to going in cold to a much bigger club a step up and trying to manufacture credibility.
Wycombe fan here., These posts about GA's record at Wycombe do ignore a lot of context, and the point of why he was so highly regarded coming out of here.
Wycombe were a non league club until the early 90s. They had only finished above 11th in League One once (under the legendary Martin O'Neill) until Ainsworth. GA took the club to their three highest finishes in their history, and also four of the top five. Even getting them promoted out of L2 to begin with and staying in L1 the first season up was miraculous, as the club did not have two pennies to rub together, being fan owned.
The covid season is also massively misrepresented. Wycombe were in the top four all season from the very beginning, mostly top two, and dropped out right before the season paused because their game against Bury (who had been expelled) would have been that weekend. They dropped into a group on 59 and 60 points with six teams all bunched together, the only difference being Wycombe had played a game less, so keeping them out of the playoffs would have simply penalized them for not playing that game.
Wycombe then went up to the Championship, where they had a budget of 4 million against a division average of 30 million. The two main players Wycombe bought to help out (a striker and central defender) were then injured for the whole first half of the season. Wycombe lost their first seven games and were cut severely adrift, but then went on a tear with top six form over the final ten games, barely missing out. It was an incredible effort by a financially overmatched club.
For anyone to say "it took several seasons for GA to get Wycombe promoted to the Championship" or "GA got Wycombe relegated to League One" it completely misses the point that this is the high watermark in the history of a very small club. It would be like saying in 2050 "it took manager X ten years to get QPR into the Champions League so he is obviously terrible", for comparison.
It's clearly not working out for GA at QPR, and it reminds me of Nathan Jones at Luton, who was incredible there in both spells but looked awful at Stoke and Southampton. But there is a reason GA was so highly regarded for his work at Wycombe. We are one of the two or three smallest, traditional non-league clubs (along with Yeovil and Burton) to ever see a season in the Championship. It just has not translated to a bigger club.
Welcome, thanks for the interesting insight, and hope we play you next season...in the Championship.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
yeah have to say his spell with us hasn't worked but that shouldn't change the fact he did a great job at Wycombe. I don't think he's a bad manager and he could well go on and do well elsewhere just hasn't worked out for him here
Very fair comment mate. The saddest thing from the GA point of view is that he absolutely adores QPR. He would only ever have left us for you or Blackburn, and was so proud to be QPR manager. He joined a charity walk from Wembley to Adams Park recently, organized by Jeff Stelling, and when he joined the walk he was decked out in his QPR gear, patting the badge and saying he had to represent the club.
None of that is to take away what you are going through as a fan base. You are the ones who will still be riding the rollercoaster after any manager or owner has come and gone. I am just very sad for all involved that it does not appear to be working out at all.
I will say QPR fans have been very fair to avoid conflating bad results with bad character, and everyone had generally acknowledged that GA remains a great bloke. It is just a shame he has not made it work for everyone involved.
Would you have him back , if he leaves us ? Oh and welcome ☺
[Post edited 23 Oct 2023 17:02]
Good question! Right now I definitely would not have him back, as the new manager is bedded in and doing well. I'm not sure how many know this, but our manager (Matt Bloomfield) is a massive club legend too, most league appearances for the club (558) and captained us into the Championship under GA. He even holds the nickname 'Mr. Wycombe', which gives you some idea of his staus here! While keeping some aspects of GA's management (team spirit, tenacity, somewhat more direct play) he has developed his own style, cycled out a lot of the squad, and the guard has well and truly changed. We do play some really nice football under MB, and he has turned out to be a master recruiter so far too.
I would be open to GA in the future if MB left eventually, but I would still have two reservations. Firstly, GA built us over ten years, and his players would all be gone by the time he came back, so although he would have instant love from the fans, media team, etc., he would need to start all over again.
Secondly, I personally always feel the second time around is simply not the same anyway. I put it something like this when he left. "Wycombe and GA are like a couple in a long, faithful marriage, but Wycombe is a bit homely looking, and GA has always been honest that he has never quite gotten over a previous stunner (QPR) he dated years ago, and that he would probably leave Wycombe if his ex ever came calling. Well, the ex finally does, and GA leaves Wycombe. Wycombe does not fault GA for his honesty, but now that the break has happened, it would be very hard for GA to just walk back into Wycombe's open arms when he finds out he does not have the chemistry with his ex that he expected."
That's not meant to be an analogy that is disrespectful to GA, as he certainly wasn't "unfaithful" to Wycombe, - he was very open about one day hoping to test himself at a higher level, and there being a couple of clubs who could lure him away. But it still alters the relationship, and it would not be the same instant chemistry if he came back a few years from now, to my mind. The world revolves, things change, we all move on.
That being said, GA will always be welcome back to thunderous applause whenever he wants to visit us. Ironically (given your circumstances) he is an absolute adored legend for us! But we are completely behind Bloomfield now. The king is dead - long live the king!
Wycombe fan here., These posts about GA's record at Wycombe do ignore a lot of context, and the point of why he was so highly regarded coming out of here.
Wycombe were a non league club until the early 90s. They had only finished above 11th in League One once (under the legendary Martin O'Neill) until Ainsworth. GA took the club to their three highest finishes in their history, and also four of the top five. Even getting them promoted out of L2 to begin with and staying in L1 the first season up was miraculous, as the club did not have two pennies to rub together, being fan owned.
The covid season is also massively misrepresented. Wycombe were in the top four all season from the very beginning, mostly top two, and dropped out right before the season paused because their game against Bury (who had been expelled) would have been that weekend. They dropped into a group on 59 and 60 points with six teams all bunched together, the only difference being Wycombe had played a game less, so keeping them out of the playoffs would have simply penalized them for not playing that game.
Wycombe then went up to the Championship, where they had a budget of 4 million against a division average of 30 million. The two main players Wycombe bought to help out (a striker and central defender) were then injured for the whole first half of the season. Wycombe lost their first seven games and were cut severely adrift, but then went on a tear with top six form over the final ten games, barely missing out. It was an incredible effort by a financially overmatched club.
For anyone to say "it took several seasons for GA to get Wycombe promoted to the Championship" or "GA got Wycombe relegated to League One" it completely misses the point that this is the high watermark in the history of a very small club. It would be like saying in 2050 "it took manager X ten years to get QPR into the Champions League so he is obviously terrible", for comparison.
It's clearly not working out for GA at QPR, and it reminds me of Nathan Jones at Luton, who was incredible there in both spells but looked awful at Stoke and Southampton. But there is a reason GA was so highly regarded for his work at Wycombe. We are one of the two or three smallest, traditional non-league clubs (along with Yeovil and Burton) to ever see a season in the Championship. It just has not translated to a bigger club.
I don't know how you put up with his style of football for 10 years tbh
I don't know how you put up with his style of football for 10 years tbh
Visits to Wembley, promotions, and winning more than you lose is entertaining in itself if you are the beneficiary! I am sure we would have felt differently if we were not successful with it all.
Carragher and Gary O’Neil giving fascinating insight on MNF.
We are decades behind .
O’Neil very impressive indeed and even showing what he did in training to how it worked on Saturday . Also showing something as simple as ‘going long’ and getting numbers around the target to gain the second ball. O’Neil practices it and even Arteta did it Saturday . When was the last time we got around Dykes in numbers to gain second ball? He is so isolated it’s untrue.
Sitting cringing about how advanced football has become and how Stone Age we look.
Carragher and Gary O’Neil giving fascinating insight on MNF.
We are decades behind .
O’Neil very impressive indeed and even showing what he did in training to how it worked on Saturday . Also showing something as simple as ‘going long’ and getting numbers around the target to gain the second ball. O’Neil practices it and even Arteta did it Saturday . When was the last time we got around Dykes in numbers to gain second ball? He is so isolated it’s untrue.
Sitting cringing about how advanced football has become and how Stone Age we look.
Having exactly the same experience here while cooking the dinner. This is football now, and we’re talking about “intensity”.
Having exactly the same experience here while cooking the dinner. This is football now, and we’re talking about “intensity”.
Exactly.
That training ground clip was so insightful..I just can’t imagine we do or set up scenarios anything like this . I know we have a significant down grade of player but we don’t show anything on a match day and haven’t for quite sometime
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Why are we so happy to play it long and high in open play but less inclined to when we are actually close to the other team's goal, 2-1 down with seconds left? 
