| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED 09:05 - Oct 16 with 16820 views | KeithHaynes |
The not Not Loyal match day thread fresh from the beating at Burnley to the battlefields of the Preseli mountains ish.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/5876
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/58764/joel-piroe-out-unt
Referee : JAMES BELL
Lino’s : Adam Crysell and Sam Lewis
Fourth Official : Andy Davies
The NL review. James Bell, also known as ding dong to his few friends has been a referee since he was four years of age. His first red card he gave to his next door neighbour at the age of five, his family moved home at that point but didn’t tell him. He was raised in the orphanage for potentially parentless young referees but quickly made his escape to the North Lancashire leagues where his first appointment was with make up manufacturer Avon. He would be lifted up and ring the potential clients doorbell. In school he earned the nickname ‘End’ After qualifying at 14, James Bell primarily officiated games at his secondary school and in the Sheffield & District Junior League. Initially balancing his refereeing and playing commitments, he chose the former and steadily progressed through the system, earning promotion onto the National List of assistant referees at the age of 23.
Bell assisted on both the 2016 FA Youth Cup Final between Manchester City v Chelsea and the 2017 League Two Play-Off Final between Blackpool v Exeter City at Wembley Stadium before choosing the refereeing pathway. He took charge of the National League Play-Off Final between Harrogate Town v Notts County in 2020 before receiving promotion onto the National Group. Bell has since taken charge of semi-finals of each of the EFL Trophy, FA Trophy, FA Sunday Cup, FA Youth Cup and FA County Youth Cup.
Swansea City: Steven Benda; Nathan Wood, Harry Darling, Ben Cabango; Joel Latibeaudiere, Jay Fulton, Matt Grimes (captain), Matty Sorinola; Luke Cundle, Ollie Cooper; Michael Obafemi.
Substitutes: Andy Fisher, Olivier Ntcham, Liam Cullen, Armstrong Oko-Flex, Fin Stevens, Kyle Naughton, Josh Thomas.
Reading: Joe Lumley, Tom Holmes, Tom McIntyre, Jeff Hendrick, Tom Ince, Yakou Meite, Andy Yiadom (captain), Tyrese Fornah, Mamadou Loum, Junior Hoilett, Amadou Mbengue.
Substitutes: Dean Bouzanis, Andy Carroll, Shane Long, Lucas Joao, Baba Rehman, Ovie Ejaria, Nesta Guinness-Walker.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/swanseacity/news/58777/a-fantastic-swanse
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 02:58 - Oct 21 with 806 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 00:29 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
He came to us as a manager already though, after being in the game for 20 years. Plenty of managers with far less experience in the game have been able to get to grips with the job immediately, or at least in a reasonable and acceptable amount of time.
Cooper finds himself in the Premier League now after 3 play off seasons before hand, he has managed for the same amount of time as Russell in club football and Russell has far more experience in the game as a whole.
The trouble with Russell is he came here thinking he knew everything, when in reality he knew very little. His knowledge of the game and powers of analysis have been nothing short of embarrassing since he arrived. The patience being called for was specifically to do with the style he brought here where people claimed “they could see what he was trying to do” - however that style has been unceremoniously scrapped.
Otherwise we could of course use that argument everywhere and sell Piroe and Obafemi and start Cullen saying “we can’t expect him to be a top striker overnight, he needs to learn”. But it’s just not how things should be done.
We saw from the training clip the depth of his football knowledge and tactical nous where it seemed the British football world were laughing at his schoolboy level knowledge and deluded arrogance. Who can forget the “eventually they will stop running” nonsense? I think the reaction to that and the drubbings we were getting may well have been the catalyst for him (or someone above him) to finally realise he’s been completely wrong with his devotion to his flawed style.
We should be nobody’s apprenticeship - Martinez, Cooper, Rodgers, Monk, Potter all had very little top level managerial experience and all managed to get results while subtly adapting on the job, there is a level of performance expected from a learning manager and he has fallen well short for far too long.
Before I get excited by our form and what lies ahead we need to hear from the horses mouth that the old way is dead, otherwise the threat of it rearing it’s god awful head is too much for me to be happy and trust the guy. Too much rubbish has passed under the bridge for it to be swept neatly under the carpet without a word of acknowledgment.
At the moment I feel like when Pippa was replaced in Home and Away with a completely new actress and I am expected to just not notice and carry on without any questions. That confused the hell out of 9 year old Dr P and I won’t have it happening again. 
On a serious note, he really needs to come out and be clear about this philosophy. I find the silence on it quite bizarre considering the mounds of discussion we heard about the old style. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 1:02]
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Some might feel otherwise, and to be fair I haven't watched any press conferences this season, but I don't think the press that covers Swansea City is the type to ask Martin those kinds of probing questions. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 2:59]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 06:31 - Oct 21 with 757 views | vetchonian |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 00:29 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
He came to us as a manager already though, after being in the game for 20 years. Plenty of managers with far less experience in the game have been able to get to grips with the job immediately, or at least in a reasonable and acceptable amount of time.
Cooper finds himself in the Premier League now after 3 play off seasons before hand, he has managed for the same amount of time as Russell in club football and Russell has far more experience in the game as a whole.
The trouble with Russell is he came here thinking he knew everything, when in reality he knew very little. His knowledge of the game and powers of analysis have been nothing short of embarrassing since he arrived. The patience being called for was specifically to do with the style he brought here where people claimed “they could see what he was trying to do” - however that style has been unceremoniously scrapped.
Otherwise we could of course use that argument everywhere and sell Piroe and Obafemi and start Cullen saying “we can’t expect him to be a top striker overnight, he needs to learn”. But it’s just not how things should be done.
We saw from the training clip the depth of his football knowledge and tactical nous where it seemed the British football world were laughing at his schoolboy level knowledge and deluded arrogance. Who can forget the “eventually they will stop running” nonsense? I think the reaction to that and the drubbings we were getting may well have been the catalyst for him (or someone above him) to finally realise he’s been completely wrong with his devotion to his flawed style.
We should be nobody’s apprenticeship - Martinez, Cooper, Rodgers, Monk, Potter all had very little top level managerial experience and all managed to get results while subtly adapting on the job, there is a level of performance expected from a learning manager and he has fallen well short for far too long.
Before I get excited by our form and what lies ahead we need to hear from the horses mouth that the old way is dead, otherwise the threat of it rearing it’s god awful head is too much for me to be happy and trust the guy. Too much rubbish has passed under the bridge for it to be swept neatly under the carpet without a word of acknowledgment.
At the moment I feel like when Pippa was replaced in Home and Away with a completely new actress and I am expected to just not notice and carry on without any questions. That confused the hell out of 9 year old Dr P and I won’t have it happening again.
On a serious note, he really needs to come out and be clear about this philosophy. I find the silence on it quite bizarre considering the mounds of discussion we heard about the old style. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 1:02]
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But he didn’t have parachute payments Andre Ayew had no preseason and had to completely turn around our way of playing…. |  |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 09:57 - Oct 21 with 703 views | RichardO |
A number of our coaches with a lot more coaching experience than Martin have failed to get teams into top league or have been considered inadequate at the higher level.
Some with less were deemed inadequate at the Premier league level and even after gaining more experience at other clubs at Championship level have failed to gain promotion to the highest level.
And some were poached before they had the chance.
Potter never gained promotion with his experience at Championship level, to reach the Premiership but had a lot more coaching experience than Martin but may have gained promotion with more time gaining more experience at Championship level.
Martinez never gained promotion with his experience at Championship level, to reach the Premiership but he did have less coaching experience than Martin, just, but may have gained promotion with more time. His team was eventually relegated from the Premiership.
Cooper did gain promotion in his third year of coaching at Championship level.
He did have a bit of success in his earlier coaching career.
Monk after coaching at the higher Premier ship and taking coaching positions in the Championship and gaining experience at that level never gained promotion to the Premiership, will he ever I don't know.
Rogers gained promotion to the Premiership in the second year of his time at Swansea although he did have championship experience at Reading and Watford before Swansea.
So in would seem you need at least three years experience as a Championship coach to get promoted, and coaching experience at different levels is a benefit as well.
(Some other coaches from other teams may have done it sooner and some never have)
Maybe the make up of the squad, continuing on building on others success, rebuilding after relegation or the change of clubs financial position may all be factors in coaches performance. | | | |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 10:01 - Oct 21 with 698 views | Whiterockin |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 09:57 - Oct 21 by RichardO |
A number of our coaches with a lot more coaching experience than Martin have failed to get teams into top league or have been considered inadequate at the higher level.
Some with less were deemed inadequate at the Premier league level and even after gaining more experience at other clubs at Championship level have failed to gain promotion to the highest level.
And some were poached before they had the chance.
Potter never gained promotion with his experience at Championship level, to reach the Premiership but had a lot more coaching experience than Martin but may have gained promotion with more time gaining more experience at Championship level.
Martinez never gained promotion with his experience at Championship level, to reach the Premiership but he did have less coaching experience than Martin, just, but may have gained promotion with more time. His team was eventually relegated from the Premiership.
Cooper did gain promotion in his third year of coaching at Championship level.
He did have a bit of success in his earlier coaching career.
Monk after coaching at the higher Premier ship and taking coaching positions in the Championship and gaining experience at that level never gained promotion to the Premiership, will he ever I don't know.
Rogers gained promotion to the Premiership in the second year of his time at Swansea although he did have championship experience at Reading and Watford before Swansea.
So in would seem you need at least three years experience as a Championship coach to get promoted, and coaching experience at different levels is a benefit as well.
(Some other coaches from other teams may have done it sooner and some never have)
Maybe the make up of the squad, continuing on building on others success, rebuilding after relegation or the change of clubs financial position may all be factors in coaches performance. |
Good points well made. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:03 - Oct 21 with 698 views | onehunglow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 02:58 - Oct 21 by Tummer_from_Texas |
Some might feel otherwise, and to be fair I haven't watched any press conferences this season, but I don't think the press that covers Swansea City is the type to ask Martin those kinds of probing questions. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 2:59]
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Some might and they'd be wrong
That was a brilliant critique by the Dr and we all need to wise up.
We ARE a proper club.MK Dons are not | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:07 - Oct 21 with 679 views | ploppy |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 00:29 - Oct 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
He came to us as a manager already though, after being in the game for 20 years. Plenty of managers with far less experience in the game have been able to get to grips with the job immediately, or at least in a reasonable and acceptable amount of time.
Cooper finds himself in the Premier League now after 3 play off seasons before hand, he has managed for the same amount of time as Russell in club football and Russell has far more experience in the game as a whole.
The trouble with Russell is he came here thinking he knew everything, when in reality he knew very little. His knowledge of the game and powers of analysis have been nothing short of embarrassing since he arrived. The patience being called for was specifically to do with the style he brought here where people claimed “they could see what he was trying to do” - however that style has been unceremoniously scrapped.
Otherwise we could of course use that argument everywhere and sell Piroe and Obafemi and start Cullen saying “we can’t expect him to be a top striker overnight, he needs to learn”. But it’s just not how things should be done.
We saw from the training clip the depth of his football knowledge and tactical nous where it seemed the British football world were laughing at his schoolboy level knowledge and deluded arrogance. Who can forget the “eventually they will stop running” nonsense? I think the reaction to that and the drubbings we were getting may well have been the catalyst for him (or someone above him) to finally realise he’s been completely wrong with his devotion to his flawed style.
We should be nobody’s apprenticeship - Martinez, Cooper, Rodgers, Monk, Potter all had very little top level managerial experience and all managed to get results while subtly adapting on the job, there is a level of performance expected from a learning manager and he has fallen well short for far too long.
Before I get excited by our form and what lies ahead we need to hear from the horses mouth that the old way is dead, otherwise the threat of it rearing it’s god awful head is too much for me to be happy and trust the guy. Too much rubbish has passed under the bridge for it to be swept neatly under the carpet without a word of acknowledgment.
At the moment I feel like when Pippa was replaced in Home and Away with a completely new actress and I am expected to just not notice and carry on without any questions. That confused the hell out of 9 year old Dr P and I won’t have it happening again.
On a serious note, he really needs to come out and be clear about this philosophy. I find the silence on it quite bizarre considering the mounds of discussion we heard about the old style. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 1:02]
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Why exactly does RM need to "come out and be clear about this philosophy"? I find that statement quite bizarre. He will have, during the interview process, no doubt spoken about his football philosophy and the powers that be were clearly happy with it. Were you not party to that discussion?
Anyway, he was brought in to do 3 things:
1. Play a more attractive style of football. Check.
2. Bring young players through. Check.
3. Run a sustainable football club. Check. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 13:14]
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 11:21 - Oct 21 with 677 views | vetchonian |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 09:57 - Oct 21 by RichardO |
A number of our coaches with a lot more coaching experience than Martin have failed to get teams into top league or have been considered inadequate at the higher level.
Some with less were deemed inadequate at the Premier league level and even after gaining more experience at other clubs at Championship level have failed to gain promotion to the highest level.
And some were poached before they had the chance.
Potter never gained promotion with his experience at Championship level, to reach the Premiership but had a lot more coaching experience than Martin but may have gained promotion with more time gaining more experience at Championship level.
Martinez never gained promotion with his experience at Championship level, to reach the Premiership but he did have less coaching experience than Martin, just, but may have gained promotion with more time. His team was eventually relegated from the Premiership.
Cooper did gain promotion in his third year of coaching at Championship level.
He did have a bit of success in his earlier coaching career.
Monk after coaching at the higher Premier ship and taking coaching positions in the Championship and gaining experience at that level never gained promotion to the Premiership, will he ever I don't know.
Rogers gained promotion to the Premiership in the second year of his time at Swansea although he did have championship experience at Reading and Watford before Swansea.
So in would seem you need at least three years experience as a Championship coach to get promoted, and coaching experience at different levels is a benefit as well.
(Some other coaches from other teams may have done it sooner and some never have)
Maybe the make up of the squad, continuing on building on others success, rebuilding after relegation or the change of clubs financial position may all be factors in coaches performance. |
I not sure thay Dr P was making the point about coaches/managers getting us promoted
He was replying to a post discussing how MArtin was learning and so patience was required .
Dr P used comparisons to other "rookie" managers we have had who managed some success, such as Cooper who arrived here with no experience of managing at senior or professional level and in fact little if no experience as a pro player yet managed to achieve results with us getting to the play offs then the play off final and in his third season promotion to the PL . This achieved at a new club arriving 7 games or so in when they were bottom of the league
Others such as Martinez managed to get us promoted yes not to the PL but to the Championship whilst also re branding our style of play, Rodgers got us promoted Monk as rookie achieved success ..yet Martin is different? | |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 11:43 - Oct 21 with 671 views | RichardO |
Aren't press conferences are a league requirement, they are loaded with cliques and nonesense every word scrutinised to the Nth degree to be used by some to praise and other to show displeasure.
All managers make mistakes at press conferences.
And mistakes with on field tactics and substitutions which hopefully are reduced with cumulative experiences gained at different levels.
Being a good player does not mean you are a good coach.
There are some coaches that are rightly praised but their lack of coaching experience is wrongly portrayed when compared against others. | | | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 13:41 - Oct 21 with 625 views | Badlands |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:07 - Oct 21 by ploppy |
Why exactly does RM need to "come out and be clear about this philosophy"? I find that statement quite bizarre. He will have, during the interview process, no doubt spoken about his football philosophy and the powers that be were clearly happy with it. Were you not party to that discussion?
Anyway, he was brought in to do 3 things:
1. Play a more attractive style of football. Check.
2. Bring young players through. Check.
3. Run a sustainable football club. Check. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 13:14]
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Even so I wouldn’t cry if he left. |  |
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| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 14:46 - Oct 21 with 602 views | sw02sea |
Any idea which 3 matches they were!
Cheers. | | | |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 15:41 - Oct 21 with 590 views | RichardO |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 11:21 - Oct 21 by vetchonian |
I not sure thay Dr P was making the point about coaches/managers getting us promoted
He was replying to a post discussing how MArtin was learning and so patience was required .
Dr P used comparisons to other "rookie" managers we have had who managed some success, such as Cooper who arrived here with no experience of managing at senior or professional level and in fact little if no experience as a pro player yet managed to achieve results with us getting to the play offs then the play off final and in his third season promotion to the PL . This achieved at a new club arriving 7 games or so in when they were bottom of the league
Others such as Martinez managed to get us promoted yes not to the PL but to the Championship whilst also re branding our style of play, Rodgers got us promoted Monk as rookie achieved success ..yet Martin is different? |
I never said Martin was any different except in the fact he has less years experience at Championship level and every other coach mentioned who got teams promoted either had more Championship experience or didn't have a chance before being poached.
I'm aware Martinez got promotion from the low level after taking over and changing the style of play from Jackett who also got us promoted from the lower level in relatively short period of time. Did some inexperience coaches build on the success of the previous successful coaches?
Monk success in achieving highest position in Premiership on the back of Laudrup team? He then lost his position and after a number of years experience in the Championship was unable to get his teams promoted.
As mentioned other factors must have an effect and every coach also makes mistakes
.
As you are bringing up Cooper he has done excellent with his just under three years Championship level experience and experience with Liverpool academy since 2008 and then with England's u16s and then with the under 17 World Cup winners
Who is the better coach between Cooper and Martin then Cooper is proven better at Championship level
Did he make mistake at his time at Swansea,of cause he did, he didn't have the experience at the level.
Do I wish Forest go down not particularly I think it is good for the Swansea brand that there are 3 ex Swansea city FC coaches in the Premier league
As for Martin has he made mistakes don't we know it but only time will tell if he succeeds or falls by the wayside
Just trying to give a balanced view on topics raised
I might have a little rant every now and again. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:21 - Oct 21 with 569 views | ploppy |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 13:41 - Oct 21 by Badlands |
Even so I wouldn’t cry if he left. |
Crying over a football club's manager leaving would be quite bizarre in itself. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:28 - Oct 21 with 560 views | swan_si |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:21 - Oct 21 by ploppy |
Crying over a football club's manager leaving would be quite bizarre in itself. |
Unless they were tears of joy.   |  | | |
| Swansea City v Reading : Match day Thread 2022/23 UPDATED on 17:47 - Oct 21 with 540 views | RichardO |
Did I use the phrase the Swansea Brand, oh dear! | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:51 - Oct 21 with 537 views | onehunglow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 13:41 - Oct 21 by Badlands |
Even so I wouldn’t cry if he left. |
We have talent enough to do well.
We still do not concentrate all game
We still give chances away all to easily
We still look ropey under pressure
These can be fine tuned | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:12 - Oct 21 with 528 views | RichardO |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:51 - Oct 21 by onehunglow |
We have talent enough to do well.
We still do not concentrate all game
We still give chances away all to easily
We still look ropey under pressure
These can be fine tuned |
We lost Manning. Didn't pick Cundle or Cooper against Burnley. Did we have enough in the starting line up against them not by a long chalk.
Can we play Piroe, Ntcham or Obefemi without someone like Cundle or Cooper alongside them, no not really the only way I can see is to make sure you have a viable threat down the wings.
But I would always play one of them preferable Cooper because he is not a loanee.
Allen adds another dimension to our midfield but is sadly missing as well.
Agree with points you made, were going in the right direction but needs to have the right tuning fork.
Fingers crossed [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 18:27]
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