| Morton House Pull Out on 21:47 - Aug 21 with 2924 views | UpTheDaleNotForSale |
our take on this is a little different.
we know that HMRC, NCA, SFO, SRA etc were aware of all of the public findings so far & started investigations.
the EFL sent Morton House a letter informing them of disciplinary action on 16th. on or after this date Morton House pulled out and intended to sell their shares.
you have to wonder if the EFL disciplinary plan informed MH that relevant authorities would be (or have been) informed, and they hoped walking away would stop the investigation in its tracks.
I'd hate to be Jarvis, or Davey B, who probably sold it to them as a walk in the park to get control. I don't think we're under any illusions that it was anything other than the hard work of fans & the trust that forced the EFL's hand into taking more decisive action. this should form the blueprint for the EFL (ie them doing a lot of the legwork, or having processes in place for agencies to do so) moving forward to build trust and credibility, and reduce the mental / physical / financial strain on the fans they are there to protect. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 21:49]
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| Twitter : @DaleNotForSale
Facebook : facebook.com/upthedalenotforsale |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 22:08 - Aug 21 with 2813 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Morton House Pull Out on 21:47 - Aug 21 by UpTheDaleNotForSale |
our take on this is a little different.
we know that HMRC, NCA, SFO, SRA etc were aware of all of the public findings so far & started investigations.
the EFL sent Morton House a letter informing them of disciplinary action on 16th. on or after this date Morton House pulled out and intended to sell their shares.
you have to wonder if the EFL disciplinary plan informed MH that relevant authorities would be (or have been) informed, and they hoped walking away would stop the investigation in its tracks.
I'd hate to be Jarvis, or Davey B, who probably sold it to them as a walk in the park to get control. I don't think we're under any illusions that it was anything other than the hard work of fans & the trust that forced the EFL's hand into taking more decisive action. this should form the blueprint for the EFL (ie them doing a lot of the legwork, or having processes in place for agencies to do so) moving forward to build trust and credibility, and reduce the mental / physical / financial strain on the fans they are there to protect. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 21:49]
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Hi UTDNFS,
I don't think that's quite right.
The EFL have asked for information which has not been forthcoming.
Simultaneously and independently, the EFL have launched disciplinary proceedings against "multiple individuals"
The prospective buyers have said they will not comply with the disciplinary investigations.
The prosepctive buyers are withdrawing from the application process.
The investigations of any other body (the SRA, HMRC etc) will be independent.
They may also still go ahead but I don't think are linked to the EFL's stance which is that shares have been bought without following the EFL's process. |  |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 22:10 - Aug 21 with 2797 views | UpTheDaleNotForSale |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:08 - Aug 21 by RAFCBLUE |
Hi UTDNFS,
I don't think that's quite right.
The EFL have asked for information which has not been forthcoming.
Simultaneously and independently, the EFL have launched disciplinary proceedings against "multiple individuals"
The prospective buyers have said they will not comply with the disciplinary investigations.
The prosepctive buyers are withdrawing from the application process.
The investigations of any other body (the SRA, HMRC etc) will be independent.
They may also still go ahead but I don't think are linked to the EFL's stance which is that shares have been bought without following the EFL's process. |
in layman's terms - 'snookered'.
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| Twitter : @DaleNotForSale
Facebook : facebook.com/upthedalenotforsale |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 22:10 - Aug 21 with 2792 views | Shakerbhoy |
LOL 😂😂😂😂 |  | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:11 - Aug 21 with 2783 views | boromat |
| Morton House Pull Out on 21:47 - Aug 21 by UpTheDaleNotForSale |
our take on this is a little different.
we know that HMRC, NCA, SFO, SRA etc were aware of all of the public findings so far & started investigations.
the EFL sent Morton House a letter informing them of disciplinary action on 16th. on or after this date Morton House pulled out and intended to sell their shares.
you have to wonder if the EFL disciplinary plan informed MH that relevant authorities would be (or have been) informed, and they hoped walking away would stop the investigation in its tracks.
I'd hate to be Jarvis, or Davey B, who probably sold it to them as a walk in the park to get control. I don't think we're under any illusions that it was anything other than the hard work of fans & the trust that forced the EFL's hand into taking more decisive action. this should form the blueprint for the EFL (ie them doing a lot of the legwork, or having processes in place for agencies to do so) moving forward to build trust and credibility, and reduce the mental / physical / financial strain on the fans they are there to protect. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 21:49]
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Just to add to that. And I really don't want to detract from all the hard work and effort but I think it's important to mention we had a little bit of luck in that Jarvis and Bottomley were absolutely useless, someone with more about them could have been much harder for us and that's why the EFL have to step up their game. Other clubs or even ourselves in the future may not have the means to do everything that the Rochdale collective have been able to do here and more. |  |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 22:16 - Aug 21 with 2744 views | UpTheDaleNotForSale |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:11 - Aug 21 by boromat |
Just to add to that. And I really don't want to detract from all the hard work and effort but I think it's important to mention we had a little bit of luck in that Jarvis and Bottomley were absolutely useless, someone with more about them could have been much harder for us and that's why the EFL have to step up their game. Other clubs or even ourselves in the future may not have the means to do everything that the Rochdale collective have been able to do here and more. |
that's a great point - and I think we are duty bound now to support and advise other fanbases who may go through this in the same way that Swindon, Southend, bury etc have with us. | |
| Twitter : @DaleNotForSale
Facebook : facebook.com/upthedalenotforsale |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 22:19 - Aug 21 with 2713 views | _Windydale |
| Morton House Pull Out on 21:47 - Aug 21 by UpTheDaleNotForSale |
our take on this is a little different.
we know that HMRC, NCA, SFO, SRA etc were aware of all of the public findings so far & started investigations.
the EFL sent Morton House a letter informing them of disciplinary action on 16th. on or after this date Morton House pulled out and intended to sell their shares.
you have to wonder if the EFL disciplinary plan informed MH that relevant authorities would be (or have been) informed, and they hoped walking away would stop the investigation in its tracks.
I'd hate to be Jarvis, or Davey B, who probably sold it to them as a walk in the park to get control. I don't think we're under any illusions that it was anything other than the hard work of fans & the trust that forced the EFL's hand into taking more decisive action. this should form the blueprint for the EFL (ie them doing a lot of the legwork, or having processes in place for agencies to do so) moving forward to build trust and credibility, and reduce the mental / physical / financial strain on the fans they are there to protect. [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 21:49]
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It probably would have been a walk in the park. if it wasn't for the fan's bloody minded tenacity and Andrew Kelly halting his share sales in defending the club they love. | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:20 - Aug 21 with 2708 views | kel |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:10 - Aug 21 by Shakerbhoy |
LOL 😂😂😂😂 |
“Ground,Car Park and Social Club debts paid off...now fully back under the ownership of Bury FC....”
LOL |  | | |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 22:27 - Aug 21 with 2662 views | RAFCBLUE |
Yes.
The transfers of shares from any individuals to Morton House are invalid as the club cannot now register them (even if they wanted to) as they would breach the EFL rules.
Can Morton House force them back to the sellers? Unlikely. Share transfers are very rarely done on a 'sale or return' basis.
Jarvis said in the MEN that they had paid £1m - they won't get most of that back. | |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 22:32 - Aug 21 with 2642 views | newbybutnoyjohn |
We cannot underestimate AKs role in this.
We owe the man an large amount of gratitude for NOT selling
his shares and protecting his (and now 🤞 The Clubs) legacy.
Thank you Andrew | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:35 - Aug 21 with 2627 views | _Windydale |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:27 - Aug 21 by RAFCBLUE |
Yes.
The transfers of shares from any individuals to Morton House are invalid as the club cannot now register them (even if they wanted to) as they would breach the EFL rules.
Can Morton House force them back to the sellers? Unlikely. Share transfers are very rarely done on a 'sale or return' basis.
Jarvis said in the MEN that they had paid £1m - they won't get most of that back. |
I don't have a business background and it's a simplified view.
But, There's no guarantee that a buyer would pass the fit and proper test, so you would have thought there was a clause; if we don't pass the test then I cannot buy the shares from you and I return them to you. | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:52 - Aug 21 with 2556 views | Brierls |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:35 - Aug 21 by _Windydale |
I don't have a business background and it's a simplified view.
But, There's no guarantee that a buyer would pass the fit and proper test, so you would have thought there was a clause; if we don't pass the test then I cannot buy the shares from you and I return them to you. |
Which is why you do things the correct way and pass the fit and proper persons test BEFORE you purchase shares. |  | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:05 - Aug 21 with 2479 views | boromat |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:27 - Aug 21 by RAFCBLUE |
Yes.
The transfers of shares from any individuals to Morton House are invalid as the club cannot now register them (even if they wanted to) as they would breach the EFL rules.
Can Morton House force them back to the sellers? Unlikely. Share transfers are very rarely done on a 'sale or return' basis.
Jarvis said in the MEN that they had paid £1m - they won't get most of that back. |
So assuming the sellers have their money and the fact Morton House can't be shareholders means they don't have or can't use the share voting rights? If so is it not a case of the club calling an EGM and everyone voting for those shares to be reissued to the club or to whoever would like to purchase them? Or is that not how it's done? | |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 23:10 - Aug 21 with 2449 views | Marjorie_Plane |
| Morton House Pull Out on 21:00 - Aug 21 by D_Alien |
I disagree Marj
I think the EFL have done the minimum they could have done, under pressure from all sides and with the intervention of our MP (a former shadow minister) and having taken an age to do so, finally been dragged into doing the right thing which they could've done some time ago
But for the pressure, commenced by the Dale Trust and continued through various media channels, i honestly doubt we'd be where we are today. The EFL regulations relating to the OADT has proven to be inadequate, and i doubt there's anyone who wouldn't concur with that; a test drawn up as a reflection of their inadequacies. It'll need overhauling, and it's only through the tenacity of Dale fans that they'll have to do so
Edit: "finally been dragged into doing the right thing" - on second thoughts, that's an overstatement
[Post edited 21 Aug 2021 21:24]
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Well I respect your opinion DA and I would agree with you... but if I did that, we'd both be wrong.
What I will agree with is the fantastic investigation done by the people we read on here, which no doubt will have assisted the EFL.
The EFL have been involved in this from the beginning and quite rightly IMO played their cards to their chest... I know you will disagree with me luvvy cos thats the way you are.
The EFL didn't even have to apply the OADT - these clots fell at the first hurdle. If you listen to Simon Gauge's interview on Radio Bolton, he spells it out sweetie... they broke the rules immediately by obtaining shares without EFL approval.
The EFL have let the Essex boy hang himself with a rope of his own stupidity- they've played the long (well short) game and had all the ammunition they needed from the start... But the mouth or marf just kept giving more.
I do agree with you on your second thoughts, where you disagree with yourself, 'finally dragged into it is a gross overstatement'
And finally, I will say this about the EFL, I do think they could have been more expeditious, (that means quicker) - They have known since the outset the marf and his dogs have breached the rules... it would have saved a lot of time, energy, stress and hassle had they started disciplinary proceedings a lot sooner....
Now don't get all shouty with me x |  | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:13 - Aug 21 with 2427 views | _Windydale |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:52 - Aug 21 by Brierls |
Which is why you do things the correct way and pass the fit and proper persons test BEFORE you purchase shares. |
Yes, that indeed does make sense. They've initiated a takeover under the wrong advice or with a disregard of consequences if they fail to pass the test. | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:17 - Aug 21 with 2400 views | _Windydale |
It's a 2017 article. I think cos the local date/time local above the article, it appears recent. | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:29 - Aug 21 with 2350 views | D_Alien |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:10 - Aug 21 by Marjorie_Plane |
Well I respect your opinion DA and I would agree with you... but if I did that, we'd both be wrong.
What I will agree with is the fantastic investigation done by the people we read on here, which no doubt will have assisted the EFL.
The EFL have been involved in this from the beginning and quite rightly IMO played their cards to their chest... I know you will disagree with me luvvy cos thats the way you are.
The EFL didn't even have to apply the OADT - these clots fell at the first hurdle. If you listen to Simon Gauge's interview on Radio Bolton, he spells it out sweetie... they broke the rules immediately by obtaining shares without EFL approval.
The EFL have let the Essex boy hang himself with a rope of his own stupidity- they've played the long (well short) game and had all the ammunition they needed from the start... But the mouth or marf just kept giving more.
I do agree with you on your second thoughts, where you disagree with yourself, 'finally dragged into it is a gross overstatement'
And finally, I will say this about the EFL, I do think they could have been more expeditious, (that means quicker) - They have known since the outset the marf and his dogs have breached the rules... it would have saved a lot of time, energy, stress and hassle had they started disciplinary proceedings a lot sooner....
Now don't get all shouty with me x |
That's pretty much why i edited with 'seconds thoughts' and seems to me we've both arrived at the same conclusion, apparently shared by others too
For what it's worth, i can fully understand why those liaising directly with the EFL were at pains to keep them onside through holding back criticisms of their process; we might still need them in future too
Since i wasn't directly involved, i felt able to perhaps voice our obvious frustrations which as it happens were backed up by the statement made by Tony Lloyd once he geared up to the danger we were in
In short, i got shouty about the EFL and rightly so. You've no cause to think i'd do so with you, dear [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 23:31]
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| Morton House Pull Out on 23:39 - Aug 21 with 2320 views | Marjorie_Plane |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:29 - Aug 21 by D_Alien |
That's pretty much why i edited with 'seconds thoughts' and seems to me we've both arrived at the same conclusion, apparently shared by others too
For what it's worth, i can fully understand why those liaising directly with the EFL were at pains to keep them onside through holding back criticisms of their process; we might still need them in future too
Since i wasn't directly involved, i felt able to perhaps voice our obvious frustrations which as it happens were backed up by the statement made by Tony Lloyd once he geared up to the danger we were in
In short, i got shouty about the EFL and rightly so. You've no cause to think i'd do so with you, dear [Post edited 21 Aug 2021 23:31]
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If you wanted to get shouty at the EFL... then you do that. Tony Lloyd did shout didn't he and thankfully so.
I wish I could say the same about Mr. Andrew Burnham, the Mayor. Despite all the letters, emails, calls, not a pip squeak could be heard from him. Not a squeak. I shall never forget that when I'm Queen you know DA.
Sweet dreams my love | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:47 - Aug 21 with 2289 views | D_Alien |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:39 - Aug 21 by Marjorie_Plane |
If you wanted to get shouty at the EFL... then you do that. Tony Lloyd did shout didn't he and thankfully so.
I wish I could say the same about Mr. Andrew Burnham, the Mayor. Despite all the letters, emails, calls, not a pip squeak could be heard from him. Not a squeak. I shall never forget that when I'm Queen you know DA.
Sweet dreams my love |
You're the queen of all our hearts, i think you know that
If you see me in the Regal Moon, i'll buy you a sherry x | |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 23:52 - Aug 21 with 2265 views | pioneer |
| Morton House Pull Out on 22:52 - Aug 21 by Brierls |
Which is why you do things the correct way and pass the fit and proper persons test BEFORE you purchase shares. |
I dont think there is a fit and proper person test for buying/owning shares is there? isnt it about taking a controlling interest in a club. I dont think I have ever been subject to a fit and proper test…and if they would bother to ask my wife Id fail it! | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 08:29 - Aug 22 with 1957 views | tony_roch975 |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:05 - Aug 21 by boromat |
So assuming the sellers have their money and the fact Morton House can't be shareholders means they don't have or can't use the share voting rights? If so is it not a case of the club calling an EGM and everyone voting for those shares to be reissued to the club or to whoever would like to purchase them? Or is that not how it's done? |
presumably the voting proxy which (allegedly) has been transferred to MH by the 5 'sellers' means they could still cast a large block at any EGM whatever the status of the actual shares transfer? I'm unclear how we could hold a rights issue without those 5 (or MH or another transferee) potentially buying further shares. Seems to me the Trust trying to buy out some or all of those 5 is still the priority? | |
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| Morton House Pull Out on 08:36 - Aug 22 with 1932 views | Marjorie_Plane |
| Morton House Pull Out on 23:47 - Aug 21 by D_Alien |
You're the queen of all our hearts, i think you know that
If you see me in the Regal Moon, i'll buy you a sherry x |
Ah the Regal Moon... I'm afraid to say that maybe a little too posh for me DA... and sherry? I'm more a Chateaux Neuf lady these days.. but thank you for your lovely gesture. So sweet of you x
Before I do say farewell ... another 'naughty boy' who seems not to have been mentioned too often in these posts is Mr.Christopher Dunphy. I do know Christopher and I know he was 'removed' from the board by that nasty Bottomley and his cronies, but what he did after when he was sulking was IMO very silly. He tipped the first domino for me by selling to those two beach boys. They weren't bothered about us or our little club where they? They said straight away they would get some big loans in. That for me is where all this started. Christopher despite his years of dedication tipped that first doe when he unprecedentedly sold his shares outside the club. That was naughty and all the stress and anxiety placed upon the lovely supporters and people of this town afterwards was totally unjust.
We deserved better. | | | |
| Morton House Pull Out on 08:52 - Aug 22 with 1879 views | D_Alien |
| Morton House Pull Out on 08:36 - Aug 22 by Marjorie_Plane |
Ah the Regal Moon... I'm afraid to say that maybe a little too posh for me DA... and sherry? I'm more a Chateaux Neuf lady these days.. but thank you for your lovely gesture. So sweet of you x
Before I do say farewell ... another 'naughty boy' who seems not to have been mentioned too often in these posts is Mr.Christopher Dunphy. I do know Christopher and I know he was 'removed' from the board by that nasty Bottomley and his cronies, but what he did after when he was sulking was IMO very silly. He tipped the first domino for me by selling to those two beach boys. They weren't bothered about us or our little club where they? They said straight away they would get some big loans in. That for me is where all this started. Christopher despite his years of dedication tipped that first doe when he unprecedentedly sold his shares outside the club. That was naughty and all the stress and anxiety placed upon the lovely supporters and people of this town afterwards was totally unjust.
We deserved better. |
Absolutely correct about CD
Don't leave us entirely will you? And don't underestimate the life-preserving benefits of a pint of sherry, dry rather than sweetie xx
[Post edited 22 Aug 2021 8:57]
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| Morton House Pull Out on 09:42 - Aug 22 with 1743 views | tony_roch975 |
| Morton House Pull Out on 08:36 - Aug 22 by Marjorie_Plane |
Ah the Regal Moon... I'm afraid to say that maybe a little too posh for me DA... and sherry? I'm more a Chateaux Neuf lady these days.. but thank you for your lovely gesture. So sweet of you x
Before I do say farewell ... another 'naughty boy' who seems not to have been mentioned too often in these posts is Mr.Christopher Dunphy. I do know Christopher and I know he was 'removed' from the board by that nasty Bottomley and his cronies, but what he did after when he was sulking was IMO very silly. He tipped the first domino for me by selling to those two beach boys. They weren't bothered about us or our little club where they? They said straight away they would get some big loans in. That for me is where all this started. Christopher despite his years of dedication tipped that first doe when he unprecedentedly sold his shares outside the club. That was naughty and all the stress and anxiety placed upon the lovely supporters and people of this town afterwards was totally unjust.
We deserved better. |
1000% (as Rio might say) and, to repeat myself, another salutary lesson on the danger of unquestioning blind allegiance to any leaders - including our current ones; the old adage that my enemy's enemy is my friend came unstuck with our 2 beach boys. [Post edited 22 Aug 2021 9:44]
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