| Good Luck UK 12:13 - Dec 12 with 66962 views | PlanetHonneywood |
For the Eze, not the Pugh!
#votewarburton
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| Good Luck UK on 14:01 - Dec 17 with 2118 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Good Luck UK on 13:40 - Dec 17 by BrianMcCarthy |
Probably doesn't allow for the following, Clive:-
1) Population growth
2) Actual spend on users, rather than private corporations |
Also doesn’t account for the massive fire sale of state (tax payer) owned assets during that period.
Austerity isn’t just about spending, it’s about what the money was spent on.
Paying for a railway bridge is different to paying ATOS and Capita a fortune to tell paraplegics that they should become hat stands for a living for example. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 14:18 - Dec 17 with 2075 views | DannytheR |
| Good Luck UK on 11:06 - Dec 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
If you take just one thing from the election it should be this; it's finally ok to speak candidly rather than place feelings above fact. The fact is the areas I listed have gone downhill in the last 30 years. Period. If you prefer to see it through rose tinted spectacles because you live there then that's your prerogative but I won't be blinkered by loyalty. That's the same form of denial that lost Labour the election by a landslide. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 11:15]
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Sure, well let me know when we have some facts to discuss and not your own feelings and we might have a halfway decent conversation.
Election or not, there still seems to be a difference between what people say to each other using cartoon avatars and made up names on the internet and what they would, you imagine, not say standing next to someone at a bar in real life. (Where telling people where they live or grew up is sht tends not to go down well.) I've probably been on the wrong side of that one myself now and then, but maybe we should start this glorious new era on a different foot.
Not sure where else this can go really. I like where I live and I still like London, more or less. Sorry if you don't - I'd give the housing market at least another 9 months before people get jumpy, so maybe now's the time to take advantage of it. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 14:20 - Dec 17 with 2068 views | PhilmyRs |
| Good Luck UK on 13:32 - Dec 17 by BrianMcCarthy |
The thread is holding up well, and no-one's been shot yet, but this is a cracking post. Fair play, Konk.
It seems that every time the Left lose in Europe the press rush to tell them that they should abandon their ideals. When the Right lose, we don't get the same clamour.
I prefer your approach: state what you believe in, what you wish for, what you dream of, but state loud and clear that politics is the art of the possible and that you are clear in your belief that in the next five years only x, y and z can be afforded and only x, y and z will be introduced.
Leadership. |
I'd say in the UK we did get a defeated 'Right Wing' Party which was asked to abadon it's ideals - The Hague to Cameron power switch? Under Hague the Conservatives lurched to the right, were seen as 'the nasty party' and the only way they were able to get electable again was trying to modernise and gain the centre ground, Cameroon did a decent Blair impression for a time but they were out of the game for a long time.
The interesting point is when the 2 ideals (left and right) colide, sort of like with what happened during this election - the right wing Etonian against the Left Wing Socialist. In that fight there's only ever going to be one winner but had a moderate, progressive centre left or centre right Party been in opposition, and done as you said, made clear that change is gradual, I'd wager my mortgage on there being a different result to the one we got. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 14:43 - Dec 17 with 2031 views | DannytheR |
The population doesn't only grow through immigration though, does it?
(Although given life expectancy rates are already dropping, maybe there's light at the end of that particular tunnel?) | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 14:43 - Dec 17 with 2030 views | BrianMcCarthy |
1) I would have thought that with medical advances the quality be improving regardless of demographics and migration/immigration
2) Privatisation is increasing |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 14:44 - Dec 17 with 2026 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Good Luck UK on 14:20 - Dec 17 by PhilmyRs |
I'd say in the UK we did get a defeated 'Right Wing' Party which was asked to abadon it's ideals - The Hague to Cameron power switch? Under Hague the Conservatives lurched to the right, were seen as 'the nasty party' and the only way they were able to get electable again was trying to modernise and gain the centre ground, Cameroon did a decent Blair impression for a time but they were out of the game for a long time.
The interesting point is when the 2 ideals (left and right) colide, sort of like with what happened during this election - the right wing Etonian against the Left Wing Socialist. In that fight there's only ever going to be one winner but had a moderate, progressive centre left or centre right Party been in opposition, and done as you said, made clear that change is gradual, I'd wager my mortgage on there being a different result to the one we got. |
Good post, Phil. | |
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| Good Luck UK on 14:46 - Dec 17 with 2013 views | Konk |
| Good Luck UK on 14:18 - Dec 17 by DannytheR |
Sure, well let me know when we have some facts to discuss and not your own feelings and we might have a halfway decent conversation.
Election or not, there still seems to be a difference between what people say to each other using cartoon avatars and made up names on the internet and what they would, you imagine, not say standing next to someone at a bar in real life. (Where telling people where they live or grew up is sht tends not to go down well.) I've probably been on the wrong side of that one myself now and then, but maybe we should start this glorious new era on a different foot.
Not sure where else this can go really. I like where I live and I still like London, more or less. Sorry if you don't - I'd give the housing market at least another 9 months before people get jumpy, so maybe now's the time to take advantage of it. |
I think London generally looks an awful lot better now than it did when I was a kid and I don’t understand how you can argue otherwise. Just looking at areas that I’ve always known: The Angel, Highbury, Holloway, Canonbury, Archway, Kings Cross, Tufnell Park, Kentish Town etc; all infinitely smarter and less shabby than they were when I was at school. And that applies to loads of South, East and West London too.
I reckon it’s a better city to eat and drink in than it’s been in my lifetime, public transport is great, it’s full of interesting people, museums, galleries etc are world class. Loads of sport and amazing parks. That said, it’s probably an increasingly sh it place to be if you’re potless, living in sh it digs and worried about your kids getting involved in gangs. But even though I’m very happy to have moved away, that might not have been the case if I’d been living in Crouch End rather than Wood Green. Similarly, I’d be less enamoured of Bristol if I’d ended up in Hartcliffe rather than the poncy end of BS3. I haven’t just swapped cities, I’ve moved to a much calmer, ‘nicer’ area and house(!) that I could never have afforded in London.
London is far too expensive, too unequal, can be too aggressive and too relentless, but it’s surely still one of the world’s great cities. I still love the place. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Good Luck UK on 14:51 - Dec 17 with 1995 views | hopphoops |
The answer appears to be that healthcare and pensions spending have been continuing to rise faster than the population growth, as have interest repayments and, in the last three years or so, transport. Other areas have stood pat while others again have been reduced e.g. "protection", welfare, education and community development.
In other words we're not sufficiently growing the working population to match the ageing of the country; and several areas which tend to particularly affect disadvantaged groups have seen spending reduced.
In addition, the loss of sterling value means that more of all spending leaves the country, whether private or public.
Also, the lack of productivity growth (it has risen since 2008 but far more slowly than before that) reinforces the impression of stagnation; and it seems feasible that the progressive decoupling of the high- and low-productivity economies is reflected in spending priorities (e.g. on Crossrail rather than northern regional rail).
https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/download_multi_year_2000_2018UKb_17c1li111mcn
(More detailed findings are accessible to those with more time than me :) )
https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-kingdom/2019/
https://www.ft.com/content/1043eec8-e9a7-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=usd&view=10Y |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 14:58 - Dec 17 with 1976 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Hey, if you want me to defend the previous Labour government, you’ve come to the wrong guy. Although even at their worst Poverty came down.
In regards to the railway bridge question, no that is not what I meant. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 15:56 - Dec 17 with 1848 views | loftboy |
Just driven round parliament square, there’s about 100 or so protesters in full EU regalia, surely even that can see now that Brexit has started and there’s going to be no second vote.
Also seen people on here mention PR, we had a vote on that in 2011 or is that another one they want to repeat until they get “the correct result”. |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 16:02 - Dec 17 with 1812 views | derbyhoop |
| Good Luck UK on 11:20 - Dec 17 by essextaxiboy |
Its funny how different viewpoints see things . I see the extention block as a way to maximise the efforts on both sides to have a trade deal done in a year . I think the pqueens speech will contain legislation to hold us to EU workers rights or better. |
Boris wants to enshrine in law that there will be no extension to the transition period.
This has all the makings of May's red lines, limiting his room for manoeuvre and making it harder to get a deal that works for him (or the UK).
I have an image of Sir Humphrey posing the question "do you think that is wise, Prime Minister?".
A DexEU report suggested the complexity of the Irish Protocol could hold up the entire free trade agreement. "Delivery of the required infrastructure, associated systems, and staffing to implement the requirements of the [Irish] protocol by December 2020 represents a major strategic, political and operational challenge," it said.
That sounds like Civil Service speak for it's impossible.
Having worked in IT for 40+ years I am well aware that the Government's ability to develop large, complex projects within a reasonable timescale and budget is non-existent. Add in that nobody can, yet, specify how it is going to work and you have a recipe for a major botch job. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Good Luck UK on 16:03 - Dec 17 with 1807 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Good Luck UK on 15:56 - Dec 17 by loftboy |
Just driven round parliament square, there’s about 100 or so protesters in full EU regalia, surely even that can see now that Brexit has started and there’s going to be no second vote.
Also seen people on here mention PR, we had a vote on that in 2011 or is that another one they want to repeat until they get “the correct result”. |
I was at uni at the time so admittedly more concerned with trying to shag anything and sticking my grant in the roulette machine but that one totally passed me by.
Even if they did another ref on ATV, PR or some other more democratic means of electing our betters and it got loads of coverage the turnout would be poor and the old fuds who would make the effort to vote would keep things as they are so that ain’t happening. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 16:06 - Dec 17 with 1799 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
I wonder what they are really thinking in the EU now all hope of the UK remaining is gone. |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 16:07 - Dec 17 with 1796 views | Konk |
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/local-government-in-2019/
Local government funding cut by almost 50% in real terms since 2010. I have quite a few friends and neighbours who work in education, local government, friends who are coppers, and friends who work in social care. All of whom consider things to be the worst they’ve ever known. I have spent a lot of time in hospitals over the past few years, you chat with the staff and they all seem thoroughly demoralized. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Good Luck UK on 16:12 - Dec 17 with 2467 views | derbyhoop |
| Good Luck UK on 12:04 - Dec 17 by Konk |
Even without Brexit and the unique position that put Labour in, it's been obvious for ages that Corbyn was completely unelectable. I have lost count of the amount of people I know who said they couldn't vote for him, even though they would usually vote Labour. A lot of people were unhappy with various causes/individuals he'd aligned himself with in the past, found him too ideological, awkward/odd and humourless, and seemingly unwilling to tolerate or consider competing views. And that's before you get onto the manifesto, which was presumably drawn up with everyone around the table asked to list the top 300 things they would do to make the country better. Rather than proposing a revolution in the first term, what about nationalising railways, extra-funding for public services and leave it at that? Broad-cross-party support for the renationalisation of the railways, nothing too scary for the middle-of-the-road floating-voter. Establish that you can get big projects done in the first term and then propose something more radical for your second term; renationalise the water companies etc. Free broadband ffs - ensuring there would be decent coverage in rural areas would have made sense, but why free broadband? 30% off train fares - I think most people would have been happy with privatisation and the government setting fares in the future. Even something like scrapping student fees - at my local university in Bristol, just under 40% of students were privately-educated. Why should their families be subsidised by working class voters whose kids are statistically much more unlikely to go to university? Why not suggest reintroducing grants or writing-off tuition fees on a means-tested basis? A sh it load cheaper and arguably much fairer. If you promise too much, people begin to question your credibility.
To find ourselves with a massive Tory majority after nine years of devastating austerity, Cameron, May, a complete shi t of a person like Johnson and the fiasco of Brexit, is just beyond my comprehension. I find it depressing reading comments blaming the Guardian/BBC/more-centrist Labour MPs for Labour's failings; large numbers of life-long Labour supporters and floating voters in marginal constituencies gave Labour a massive fu ck-right-off and it wasn't because they heard Jess Phillips or Wes Streeting criticising Corbyn on Radio 4. We live in a country where our public services are on the brink of collapse and only 'function' at all due to the goodwill and dedication of the staff who go above and beyond. We live in a country where food banks have become normalised in towns and cities of all sizes, where schools are asking for parents to contribute towards pens, pencils, paper and books. Where there are record numbers of homeless people sleeping rough, even in the suburbs of our towns and cities. And yet despite all of this, we have just seen a massive Tory majority returned, and often in constituencies that have been amongst the hardest hit. I know Brexit is an obvious factor in that, but at the same time, it should surely be obvious that more of the same from Labour will deliver more of the same at the ballot box.
It's all well and good having 500,000 students, middle-aged SWP-paper-sellers and Len Mcluskey types as members, but if the rest of the country isn't buying into your ideas and backing you, then what's the fu cking point? If the current shadow cabinet are anything to go by, then Labour aren't even going to form an effective opposition. As much as it may dismay the ideological purists in the Labour party, if they want to help the working class of our country, they need to form the government. And if they can't even appeal to their traditional working class voters, never mind those floating voters who are receptive to the idea of a Labour government, then we're stuffed. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 12:28]
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"after nine years of devastating austerity,"
BBC went to Burnley yesterday, which returned a Tory MP for the first time since God knows when. 2 guys, on zero hours contracts, who were sharing a bed-sit, were hoping that a Tory government would make things better. After 9 years, what do they think is going to change for the better?? WTF! | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Good Luck UK on 17:21 - Dec 17 with 2344 views | colinallcars |
| Good Luck UK on 14:46 - Dec 17 by Konk |
I think London generally looks an awful lot better now than it did when I was a kid and I don’t understand how you can argue otherwise. Just looking at areas that I’ve always known: The Angel, Highbury, Holloway, Canonbury, Archway, Kings Cross, Tufnell Park, Kentish Town etc; all infinitely smarter and less shabby than they were when I was at school. And that applies to loads of South, East and West London too.
I reckon it’s a better city to eat and drink in than it’s been in my lifetime, public transport is great, it’s full of interesting people, museums, galleries etc are world class. Loads of sport and amazing parks. That said, it’s probably an increasingly sh it place to be if you’re potless, living in sh it digs and worried about your kids getting involved in gangs. But even though I’m very happy to have moved away, that might not have been the case if I’d been living in Crouch End rather than Wood Green. Similarly, I’d be less enamoured of Bristol if I’d ended up in Hartcliffe rather than the poncy end of BS3. I haven’t just swapped cities, I’ve moved to a much calmer, ‘nicer’ area and house(!) that I could never have afforded in London.
London is far too expensive, too unequal, can be too aggressive and too relentless, but it’s surely still one of the world’s great cities. I still love the place. |
I dunno Konk, if you visited somewhere like Richmond or Barnes for the first time in 50 years, you'd think things were pretty much going well. Visit the areas in which I grew up - Acton, Shepherds Bush etc - you'd think somewhat differently I feel. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 17:33 - Dec 17 with 2325 views | Konk |
| Good Luck UK on 17:21 - Dec 17 by colinallcars |
I dunno Konk, if you visited somewhere like Richmond or Barnes for the first time in 50 years, you'd think things were pretty much going well. Visit the areas in which I grew up - Acton, Shepherds Bush etc - you'd think somewhat differently I feel. |
That may well be true, mate, but thinking back to those areas I mentioned and all of them look smarter than they did when I was a teenager in the late 80’s. And that’s a fair old chunk of inner-city North London. Where London has undoubtedly got shi tter is that those areas were full of normal people doing normal jobs back then, and a fair number owned their homes without needing to earn £4bn a month to do so. That’s the wa nk side of London now. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Good Luck UK on 19:13 - Dec 17 with 2233 views | queensparker |
| Good Luck UK on 17:33 - Dec 17 by Konk |
That may well be true, mate, but thinking back to those areas I mentioned and all of them look smarter than they did when I was a teenager in the late 80’s. And that’s a fair old chunk of inner-city North London. Where London has undoubtedly got shi tter is that those areas were full of normal people doing normal jobs back then, and a fair number owned their homes without needing to earn £4bn a month to do so. That’s the wa nk side of London now. |
It’s a great thread this.
I grew up in a London in the 70s/80s where it felt like people could quite happily expect to live within their means in a regular job and have a permanent home for the rest of their lives (either Council/rented/mortgaged). Yes it was crumbling, full of sub standard accommodation (and plenty of squats), dodgy as fk in many places, but there wasn’t a massive obsession with property as the main means to earning money.
Today’s London is better in many ways cosmetically or if you want to start a business or get a nice meal, but unless you own your home, or bought a home for £200k in the 90s, or have minted relations, or are happy renting for the rest of your life at increasingly nuts rates, it’s not really a long-term option anymore. It’s just too expensive. That can’t be right.
So you’re increasingly seeing five groups:
- people happy to live in tiny shared shitty accommodation short term getting shafted by landlords as they’re earning enough to make it worthwhile in the short term. or it’s simply their only option and landlords are happy to take their benefits
- the original Londoners hanging on (like a lot of my neighbours who are in council properties or right-to-buy houses but are getting old now - the next owners will have to fork out massive six figure sums to live here)
- itinerant professionals and students who stay for a few years and leave / have to leave once they get a family
- the people who have lucked out on the property market in the last 50
years and can stay put
- the minted who can live here comfortably,
There doesn’t feel like there’s a solidity in any London communities anymore as unless you know you’ve got cash coming in long term you’re probably going to have to leave, plus your neighbours are a mix of people spending a few years here and long-term many generation families cashing in and bailing.
Then again maybe London’s always been like this. People come and go |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 20:28 - Dec 17 with 2142 views | Konk |
| Good Luck UK on 19:13 - Dec 17 by queensparker |
It’s a great thread this.
I grew up in a London in the 70s/80s where it felt like people could quite happily expect to live within their means in a regular job and have a permanent home for the rest of their lives (either Council/rented/mortgaged). Yes it was crumbling, full of sub standard accommodation (and plenty of squats), dodgy as fk in many places, but there wasn’t a massive obsession with property as the main means to earning money.
Today’s London is better in many ways cosmetically or if you want to start a business or get a nice meal, but unless you own your home, or bought a home for £200k in the 90s, or have minted relations, or are happy renting for the rest of your life at increasingly nuts rates, it’s not really a long-term option anymore. It’s just too expensive. That can’t be right.
So you’re increasingly seeing five groups:
- people happy to live in tiny shared shitty accommodation short term getting shafted by landlords as they’re earning enough to make it worthwhile in the short term. or it’s simply their only option and landlords are happy to take their benefits
- the original Londoners hanging on (like a lot of my neighbours who are in council properties or right-to-buy houses but are getting old now - the next owners will have to fork out massive six figure sums to live here)
- itinerant professionals and students who stay for a few years and leave / have to leave once they get a family
- the people who have lucked out on the property market in the last 50
years and can stay put
- the minted who can live here comfortably,
There doesn’t feel like there’s a solidity in any London communities anymore as unless you know you’ve got cash coming in long term you’re probably going to have to leave, plus your neighbours are a mix of people spending a few years here and long-term many generation families cashing in and bailing.
Then again maybe London’s always been like this. People come and go |
Absolutely. All of those areas I've listed, and you can lob Finsbury Park, Stroud Green and Stoke Newington into the mix as well.
Before we moved, we generally liked living down our street, but with a kid on the way, we would have needed to find £650-700k for a 3 bedroom house, with one of those bedrooms being a box room. Mental. Even if we could have borrowed that money, £700k to live in an area with loads of social problems, struggling schools etc? As it was, we sold our 2 bedroom flat in Wood Green for more than we spent on a 3 double bedroom Victorian house in a 'nice' area of a great city, so for us it was a fairly obvious move. If we could have bought a house for £400k (bargain) in N22, though, we probably wouldn't have even thought about moving. The clincher for me was the thought that unless my son ends up earning mega money, there's a good chance he would never be able to afford a house in his hometown or stay in the area where he'd grown-up (good job we moved to one of the most expensive cities outside of London...) | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Good Luck UK on 22:03 - Dec 17 with 2065 views | DannytheR |
| Good Luck UK on 14:46 - Dec 17 by Konk |
I think London generally looks an awful lot better now than it did when I was a kid and I don’t understand how you can argue otherwise. Just looking at areas that I’ve always known: The Angel, Highbury, Holloway, Canonbury, Archway, Kings Cross, Tufnell Park, Kentish Town etc; all infinitely smarter and less shabby than they were when I was at school. And that applies to loads of South, East and West London too.
I reckon it’s a better city to eat and drink in than it’s been in my lifetime, public transport is great, it’s full of interesting people, museums, galleries etc are world class. Loads of sport and amazing parks. That said, it’s probably an increasingly sh it place to be if you’re potless, living in sh it digs and worried about your kids getting involved in gangs. But even though I’m very happy to have moved away, that might not have been the case if I’d been living in Crouch End rather than Wood Green. Similarly, I’d be less enamoured of Bristol if I’d ended up in Hartcliffe rather than the poncy end of BS3. I haven’t just swapped cities, I’ve moved to a much calmer, ‘nicer’ area and house(!) that I could never have afforded in London.
London is far too expensive, too unequal, can be too aggressive and too relentless, but it’s surely still one of the world’s great cities. I still love the place. |
Agreed. Christ, just thinking about some of those bits of north London back in the day makes me feel a bit clammy. A mate lived at the Kings Cross end of the Cally Road in the early 90s and there was pretty much a curfew after 10pm (unless of course you were after something specific in those 'orrible yards round the back of the station...)
I don't feel the same way about Shepherds Bush as I used to, but who does about the place they grew up? The big thing that's changed round there is the number of pubs, but that's a problem everywhere I think, and loads of different reasons why. (Hardly anyone under 30 having enough disposable income for a night on the piss for one thing.) Oh, and the Green *occasionally* feels like somewhere you might, just might actually sit and have a sarnie on a nice day. (Rather than the round the clock running battles between street drinkers it used to host.) Otherwise, it's pricier than it was, and the Westfield has had a big impact obviously but the Goldhawk Road is still the Goldhawk Road.
(Have to say I find mention of Acton just baffling in all this. Acton is the same eternally unchanging Acton I remember and will still be when the rest of London is a post-apocayptic wilderness stalked by mutant crabs.)
But yes I do think the city has got a *lot* harder for the skint and the young - me, my girlfriend and a mate shared a 2 bedroom flat in Soho when I was in my early 20s on the money I made working in a record shop. Now we'd be in some death trap cupboard under the stairs in Catford if we were lucky.
On the other hand, my kid loves it here. Seeing everything the place has to offer a kid growing up (as long as you don't mind their lungs being stunted) makes you fall in love a bit with it again. [Post edited 17 Dec 2019 22:36]
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| Good Luck UK on 22:10 - Dec 17 with 2054 views | derbyhoop |
| Good Luck UK on 16:06 - Dec 17 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
I wonder what they are really thinking in the EU now all hope of the UK remaining is gone. |
There was an EU Council meeting on Dec 13th where the EU agreed their priorities and the sequencing of future negotiations.
So they haven't been thinking, but doing. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Good Luck UK on 22:55 - Dec 17 with 2000 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Good Luck UK on 22:10 - Dec 17 by derbyhoop |
There was an EU Council meeting on Dec 13th where the EU agreed their priorities and the sequencing of future negotiations.
So they haven't been thinking, but doing. |
Yeah, but I did not really mean in that way.
I guess they never thought the tories would win so conveniently, that somehow the chance of another ref. like in Ireland was possible if there had been a hung parliament again.
They did try to make it as hard as they could for us to leave with the help of May's crap deal.. yeah which is almost the same as the Boris deal.
Anyway, by the looks of it, No Deal is back on the table. | |
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| Good Luck UK on 00:07 - Dec 18 with 1913 views | AnonymousR |
The increasing spend is primarily due to pension increase from less than £100bn in 2008 to a forecast £161bn in 2020.
The cash austerity cost has been estimated to have been c £300bn, primarily from welfare payments, housing subsidies, and social services and local government formula grant.
The burden of government spend has moved to supporting the elderly in cash terms, while removing the adult social care and community care provision for chronic illness. Hence the increase in acute costs in the NHS and a lack of resource in A&E and emergency care. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 00:10 - Dec 18 with 1911 views | AnonymousR |
| Good Luck UK on 16:02 - Dec 17 by derbyhoop |
Boris wants to enshrine in law that there will be no extension to the transition period.
This has all the makings of May's red lines, limiting his room for manoeuvre and making it harder to get a deal that works for him (or the UK).
I have an image of Sir Humphrey posing the question "do you think that is wise, Prime Minister?".
A DexEU report suggested the complexity of the Irish Protocol could hold up the entire free trade agreement. "Delivery of the required infrastructure, associated systems, and staffing to implement the requirements of the [Irish] protocol by December 2020 represents a major strategic, political and operational challenge," it said.
That sounds like Civil Service speak for it's impossible.
Having worked in IT for 40+ years I am well aware that the Government's ability to develop large, complex projects within a reasonable timescale and budget is non-existent. Add in that nobody can, yet, specify how it is going to work and you have a recipe for a major botch job. |
Enshrine in law is a meaningless phrase. If the PM needs to extend the dates of the withdrawal, HMG could easily submit a two line bill, issue a three line whip for voting, and it will pass, even with the opposition parties and ERG opposition. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 08:36 - Dec 18 with 1702 views | TheChef |
| Good Luck UK on 17:33 - Dec 17 by Konk |
That may well be true, mate, but thinking back to those areas I mentioned and all of them look smarter than they did when I was a teenager in the late 80’s. And that’s a fair old chunk of inner-city North London. Where London has undoubtedly got shi tter is that those areas were full of normal people doing normal jobs back then, and a fair number owned their homes without needing to earn £4bn a month to do so. That’s the wa nk side of London now. |
Bottom line is that for better or for worse, London is now much more a global city where you have umpteen languages and cultures all thrown in together. You look at the cityscape depicted in Blade Runner, released nearly 40 years ago, and we are almost there (still waiting for the hovercars though).
So with London as a major hub for commerce and finance it's not really that surprising - you look back 30 or 40 years and given all the recent overseas investment and stagnation of the average UK wage, inevitably your average person (whoever that is) cannot afford to live in inner London.
The thing that amuses me these days is people who have moved to London, especially from abroad, who ask you where you were born and are usually amazed to find out you were actually born in London! |  |
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