| Brexiters, why? 12:51 - Apr 22 with 31528 views | the_oracle |
When are the Brexiters going to be honest about the reason they want out?
By any objective view business says stay in. Support from the IMF, CBI big businesses like BT vodaphone, Marks and Spencers, BAE, Easy Jet etc etc. World leader say stay in to protect our position as a world power, to hold the EU together, prevent conflict etc. Unions cite worker’s protection as a reason to stay in. All the main parties support in, the Treasury says in. There are warnings from EU leaders that if we are not part of the club we will have serious problems.
I have not heard a single cogent reason, financially, to get out. Kate Hoey one of the Brexit leaders embarrassingly couldn’t site a single report saying why we would be better off. A few politicians led by Boris and Farage are for out. That’s it. There is no clear explanation of what happens next from them, they just don’t seem to know.
Everything seems to point to the view that “remain” is right.
So be honest, Brexiters, is it immigration?
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| Brexiters, why? on 17:50 - Apr 28 with 2064 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 15:19 - Apr 28 by johnlangy |
Many people used the figure of 50% of our trade going to the EU but recently I have heard people saying 44%. And you have made the effort to search out the figures so I accept what you say.
But there's nothing to argue about in the rest of my post. It would be apocalyptic if we lost that trade by not being able to agree a Trade Deal with the EU (apparently what David Cameron and George Osborne said). Just a statement of fact. But then I said that we will do a deal, the only question being what that deal would look like. What's to argue about that ?
You start the fourth para with 'So let's get this clear, you think the EU can afford to lose an Export Market of .............'. I didn't say in my post that they can or can't afford to lose our market. What I've said in other posts is that they can afford to lose our market more than we can afford to lose theirs (and I do understand that they sell more to us than we do to them).
I posed this question in another post so i'll ask it again. And this is not meant to be confrontational. I'm just looking at this in a logical way and am asking you and others to show me where I'm wrong.
Imagine the Trade Deal with the EU is being decided at one meeting (it's the same logic if it was a hundred meetings). The UK on one side exports 44% of it's trade to the EU. That's about 1.63% on average per EU country. They sell us more than we sell them so i'll just assume 3% for the sake of making the point. Each of the other countries reps is looking to get the best deal for their country and the EU generally. They are thinking, if we don't sign this deal my country will lose 3% of our exports but the UK will lose 44% of it's exports. Would you explain to me why that puts us in a strong position.
You ask if they would be happy to see one of their biggest markets disappear. If they sell us 3% then they sell 97% elsewhere. And, like us at present, their biggest trading partner is the group of countries sitting alongside them on their side of the table to which they also probably sell 40% or more of their goods.
But we will sign a deal and my original post asked what will that deal look like. They will make us sign a deal where we accept all the EU rules and regs as they are because what else can they do. If they let us pick and choose what rules we wanted to abide by then that would give us an advantage competition wise. And they're not going to disadvantage their own economies. |
The problem with your analysis is that the Exports from the EU are not shared out equally between the Countries.
I do not have the exact figures, but I a sure that they are available somewhere.
The lion share of the market goes to
Germany, Cars & electrical goods
France, Cars, Electrical goods, ships and wine/cheese etc they also import the Airbus wings, no trade no wings no Airbus. Now you are talking billions not mllions of lost trade to the rest of the world for them, mind you we would lose around a hundred thousand jobs here.
Spain Cars, electrical goods and fruit etc.
Germany as well as the biggest exporter is also the biggest Contributor to the EU fund, followed by France, I think all the others are "hangers on".
So along with our contribution of £11B+ which Germany & France will now have to find they wiil also have to make up for their lost Export Markets as well.
Do you think the other Countries will have much say in the matter?
If Germany & France do not or cannot contribute, what is the point of the others being in the EU if there is no EU Teat to suck on?
Add to this mix the fact that Germany is now trying dictate to the rest of the EU countries how many Migrants they will each take.
Hungary & Poland have already told them to get lost, along with the UK.
Then add in the PIIGS countries that are still borderline broke and unable to control their finances because of the Eurozone and you have a recipe for disaster in the EU. It is a failed idea that is unravelling fast and we want to be out of it before it does. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 18:56]
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| Brexiters, why? on 18:16 - Apr 28 with 2048 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:50 - Apr 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
The problem with your analysis is that the Exports from the EU are not shared out equally between the Countries.
I do not have the exact figures, but I a sure that they are available somewhere.
The lion share of the market goes to
Germany, Cars & electrical goods
France, Cars, Electrical goods, ships and wine/cheese etc they also import the Airbus wings, no trade no wings no Airbus. Now you are talking billions not mllions of lost trade to the rest of the world for them, mind you we would lose around a hundred thousand jobs here.
Spain Cars, electrical goods and fruit etc.
Germany as well as the biggest exporter is also the biggest Contributor to the EU fund, followed by France, I think all the others are "hangers on".
So along with our contribution of £11B+ which Germany & France will now have to find they wiil also have to make up for their lost Export Markets as well.
Do you think the other Countries will have much say in the matter?
If Germany & France do not or cannot contribute, what is the point of the others being in the EU if there is no EU Teat to suck on?
Add to this mix the fact that Germany is now trying dictate to the rest of the EU countries how many Migrants they will each take.
Hungary & Poland have already told them to get lost, along with the UK.
Then add in the PIIGS countries that are still borderline broke and unable to control their finances because of the Eurozone and you have a recipe for disaster in the EU. It is a failed idea that is unravelling fast and we want to be out of it before it does. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 18:56]
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I am undecided, but your very last point is one of the strongest reasons in my mind for a vote out.
I also think it will unravel and wonder whether it is better to leave with a semblance of control now rather than in a messy collapse.
Of course, in many ways, it may be a self fulfilling prophecy because us leaving will surely bring forward any collapse. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:06 - Apr 28 with 2019 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:16 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001 |
I am undecided, but your very last point is one of the strongest reasons in my mind for a vote out.
I also think it will unravel and wonder whether it is better to leave with a semblance of control now rather than in a messy collapse.
Of course, in many ways, it may be a self fulfilling prophecy because us leaving will surely bring forward any collapse. |
Well the choice appears to be
Get out now and cut our losses and get back our sovereignty, control of our laws and borders etc.
Stay in and accept greater union, many more migrants, sharing the cost of the migrants and the migration process, sharing the cost of supporting the failing countries, even more loss of national control of laws & policy decisions.
Did you know we are the most "outvoted" country in the EU?
Did you know that the latest "conservation" madness means that individual fishermen (ie by boat with rod or shore with rod) can only catch one Bass between very specific dates, while at the same time the French Fishing Fleet can basically do whatever they can get away with.
THe EU have gone rule & law mad and people like "the Oracle" obviously like to be controlled from Brussels and prefer it to being controlled from Westminster, well I don't. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:19 - Apr 28 with 2018 views | snork44 |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:16 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001 |
I am undecided, but your very last point is one of the strongest reasons in my mind for a vote out.
I also think it will unravel and wonder whether it is better to leave with a semblance of control now rather than in a messy collapse.
Of course, in many ways, it may be a self fulfilling prophecy because us leaving will surely bring forward any collapse. |
In 1939 we went to war to stop a powerful European influence having any role in our country. After World War 2 ended the Common Market was founded in the fifties, we were denied entry mainly because De Gaulle hated our guts. Fast forward to 1975 when we were lied to by the sailors friend Edward Heath and then said it was simply a trading organization and we would be much better off trading with our wonderful European partners. Then the Common Market became the European Community and after that it morphed into the European Union, with all the anomalies this inflated organization has become. Nepotism and Cronyism are bywords for the EU, a one size fits all economy and currency does not work just look at Greece, Spain and just across the water in Ireland. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:38 - Apr 28 with 2009 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:19 - Apr 28 by snork44 |
In 1939 we went to war to stop a powerful European influence having any role in our country. After World War 2 ended the Common Market was founded in the fifties, we were denied entry mainly because De Gaulle hated our guts. Fast forward to 1975 when we were lied to by the sailors friend Edward Heath and then said it was simply a trading organization and we would be much better off trading with our wonderful European partners. Then the Common Market became the European Community and after that it morphed into the European Union, with all the anomalies this inflated organization has become. Nepotism and Cronyism are bywords for the EU, a one size fits all economy and currency does not work just look at Greece, Spain and just across the water in Ireland. |
As I said up thread, what Heath and all Parties have done since, by the laws based on the Magna Carta they have committed "Treason" by "giving away" or "reducing" the Sovereignty of the UK.
But they will never be punished for it. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:49 - Apr 28 with 2000 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:38 - Apr 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
As I said up thread, what Heath and all Parties have done since, by the laws based on the Magna Carta they have committed "Treason" by "giving away" or "reducing" the Sovereignty of the UK.
But they will never be punished for it. |
Heath et al didn't give away powers. The PM has no power to do so. Every treaty has been ratified by the UK parliament. Parliament chose to ratify the treaties. Only parliament has the power to do so. The reference to Magna Carta is utterly meaningless.
And part of the "deal" that Cameron struck prior to calling the referendum exempts the UK from any aspect of any future closer political union between EU members. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 19:51]
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| Brexiters, why? on 20:07 - Apr 28 with 1986 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:49 - Apr 28 by exiledclaseboy |
Heath et al didn't give away powers. The PM has no power to do so. Every treaty has been ratified by the UK parliament. Parliament chose to ratify the treaties. Only parliament has the power to do so. The reference to Magna Carta is utterly meaningless.
And part of the "deal" that Cameron struck prior to calling the referendum exempts the UK from any aspect of any future closer political union between EU members. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 19:51]
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The Magna Carta applies to everybody including the Government.
The So Called Deal Cameron made has to be ratified by every EU country, one no and it is not an deal at all.
The so called deal has been pulled apart by all parties including his own. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 20:11 - Apr 28 with 1984 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Brexiters, why? on 20:07 - Apr 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
The Magna Carta applies to everybody including the Government.
The So Called Deal Cameron made has to be ratified by every EU country, one no and it is not an deal at all.
The so called deal has been pulled apart by all parties including his own. |
The Magna Carta has been superseded, partly repealed and rendered meaningless by various acts of Parliament for centuries. Your reference to it in this context is meaningless. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 10:35 - Apr 29 with 1918 views | Humpty |
| Brexiters, why? on 02:22 - Apr 27 by Davillin |
All your post shows is how severely and incurably deluded you are.
It's not worth adding anything else to that. |
I'm incurably deluded but you're not going to tell me why?
It might be worth pointing out to me where I'm wrong.
I won't mind. I don't throw hissy fits when someone disagrees with me.
It might make me a better person. I'm up for it.
Go on Dav. Tell me why Obama is a dictator and the worst POTUS you've ever had. |  | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:21 - Apr 29 with 1907 views | Humpty |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:00 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
Seeing as you can identify youself from my post and have answered it let me explain something to you.
I know all about Fox News and Breitbart, I also know all about the MSM in both the USA and the UK, they are now nothing but mouthpieces for the Government.
Investigative Journalism is dead as is your so called "Fairness Doctrine".
I have gained my own knowledge of Obamacare and know for a fact that you are not being exactly truthful, I have read 100s of articles about it and how badly it was rolled out and is performing.
So just like with Dav you have made stupid assumptions about me that are no where near the truth.
So you actually think that obama has done a good job as president, I find that extremely sad and I feel very sorry for you. |
Ok. Let me know where you are coming from. When you say MSM it always makes me think nutter.
We are blessed with one of the best, most unbiased news sources on this planet. The BBC is not a mouthpiece for the Government. If it is perhaps you'd like to explain the Gilligan afair. And why the Tories despise it so much and want to defund it whenever they can. All governments despise the BBC.
Because it tells the truth.
All governments would much rather a RT, or an Al Jezeera, or a PressTV.
What do you think of Fox News? Reputable news source?
As for Obamacare. I don't know all the intracies of it. It doesn't concern me. I know millions of Americans who didn't have health care before now have it and love it because they have a better chance of living if something happens to them.
Has Obama done a good job as President?
He's done the best he can. It's very hard to get anything done when the Republicans in congress say as soon as he's elected the're going to do everything they can to make sure he achieves f*ck all.
Because that's how bonkers the GOP has become. Anything Obama wants to do we will stop, whether it's good for the country or not. I can't think what it is about him that makes them like that? Can you?
Tried his best against childish destructive morons I'd say. Achieved as much as he could. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 12:09 - Apr 29 with 1907 views | longlostjack |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:16 - Apr 28 by londonlisa2001 |
I am undecided, but your very last point is one of the strongest reasons in my mind for a vote out.
I also think it will unravel and wonder whether it is better to leave with a semblance of control now rather than in a messy collapse.
Of course, in many ways, it may be a self fulfilling prophecy because us leaving will surely bring forward any collapse. |
I believe that its the Euro that will collapse and that this will save the European Union. Being a UK migrant here in Germany this would be no bad thing. The Deutschmark would return and be revalued against the pound meaning it would be much cheaper for me to follow the Swans. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 12:43 - Apr 29 with 1898 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:21 - Apr 29 by Humpty |
Ok. Let me know where you are coming from. When you say MSM it always makes me think nutter.
We are blessed with one of the best, most unbiased news sources on this planet. The BBC is not a mouthpiece for the Government. If it is perhaps you'd like to explain the Gilligan afair. And why the Tories despise it so much and want to defund it whenever they can. All governments despise the BBC.
Because it tells the truth.
All governments would much rather a RT, or an Al Jezeera, or a PressTV.
What do you think of Fox News? Reputable news source?
As for Obamacare. I don't know all the intracies of it. It doesn't concern me. I know millions of Americans who didn't have health care before now have it and love it because they have a better chance of living if something happens to them.
Has Obama done a good job as President?
He's done the best he can. It's very hard to get anything done when the Republicans in congress say as soon as he's elected the're going to do everything they can to make sure he achieves f*ck all.
Because that's how bonkers the GOP has become. Anything Obama wants to do we will stop, whether it's good for the country or not. I can't think what it is about him that makes them like that? Can you?
Tried his best against childish destructive morons I'd say. Achieved as much as he could. |
When you say categorically that "Because it tells the truth." you totally confirm that you are brainwashed by them and deluded to boot.
With all the publicity over Jimmy Saville I am amazed that you could say such a thing.
I suggest that you take the time to read this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_controversies
I can add a few more to that
Biased fixing of Question Time audiences.
Biased fixing of Sunday Morning Live audiences.
Totally false filming for Nature documentaries.
Biased reporting of Climate Change, Renewable Energy, Green Issues and the EU, who pay the BBC.
Using their website to "virtually" advertise products like Tesla Cars.
All of which are against the BBC's own Charter of fairness and no advertising.
I suggest that you also take a look at where the BBC invests it's Pension Fund. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 13:47 - Apr 29 with 1879 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:20 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
Yet again you post inaccurate data, perhaps I should take the time to advise you about who should be worried about us not getting a trade deal.
The latest figures for Import/Export to the EU and rest of the world are as follows
EU Imports in to the UK were £19270M which is 58% of our World ImportTrade of £33207.35M, so non EU imports were £15720.5M.
Our Exports to the EU were £11073M which is 44% of our World Export Trade, so non EU Exports were £13937.35M
So our trade gap with the EU was some £8197M in the EU's favour compared to a Trade gap of only £1783.15M with the rest of the world.
So let's get this clear, you think the EU can afford to lose an Export Market of £19270M plus losing £21,000M (£11,000M Net) per year which we pay directly in to the EU coffers which are completely unaccountable.
So, let's see no more Airbus Aircraft, as we make the wings.
No more BMW Minis sold in Europe as we make them here, BMW won't like that as they get the profits.
No more sales to the UK of BMWS, Mercedes, Volkswagens, Audis, Porches, Skodas, Bentleys, Rolls Royces, Seats, Alfas, Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis, Bugattis, Volvos, Citreon/Peugeots, Renaults, Fiats, Fords (no 1 best seller in the UK) .
No more UK sales of Bosch, Karcher, Meile, Beko, Tefal, Indesit, LG, Philips Electrical products.
No more Fench wine, Champagne or cheeses, no more Olives and fruit etc.
No of course the EU won't want to deal with the UK, they will be quite happy to see one of their biggest markets disappear to Asia, Africa, Australia, the US, China, India etc.
Greece is already in real Financial trouble, Italy is heading the same way, along with Spain, most of the new Eastern bloc countries also depend on EU hand outs.
The Eurozone does not work for the small poorer countries, who was mad enough to ever think it could, ho yes all those Financial Institutions that get quoted ad nauseam by the Remain crowd and repeated ad nauseam by the British Brainwashing Corporation.
Turkey are currently blackmailing the EU (read Germany) over the Migration Crisis and it is a crisis, the EU cannot absorb over a million refugees a year.
The migrants themselves are NOT Refugees, they are Economic Migrants, they ceased to become Refugees as soon as they found refuge away from the fighting. Nobody knows the backgrounds of the majority of them and therefore have no idea of how much trouble they will be in the future.
As Theresa May has pointed out we cannot deport common criminals, rapists, murderers and terrorists due to the European Court of Human Rights, but that is OK as the Oracle says the ECHR offers us all lots of protection that we wouldn't otherwise have.
Our own Government is hiding many facts about EU costs, actual immigration figures, how much cash leaves the country back to the Migrants own coutry to be spent there.
They won't tell us what the EU plans for us are, like fines for using our own laws yet more fishing restrictions, you can't even catch & keep a Bass now, putting the environment before humans because it may affect the Referendum.
Get real, they are desperate to keep us in and will do and say anything to prevent us from leaving, because if the UE goes bankrupt and breaks up the EU & Eurozone what do you think it will do to EU Countries and the World Markets? [Post edited 27 Apr 2016 19:24]
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Good post. They have far more to lose than we do. Oh I knew that economic trade deficit would come in handy one day.  |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Brexiters, why? on 15:59 - Apr 29 with 1855 views | the_oracle |
| Brexiters, why? on 13:47 - Apr 29 by Brynmill_Jack |
Good post. They have far more to lose than we do. Oh I knew that economic trade deficit would come in handy one day. |
With regard to Theresa May, and A Fans dads belief we fail to deport criminals rapists etc perhaps they should both read this,what appears to be, an unbiased report. (no doubt AFD will say is some sort of conspiracy by the EU) .
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/does-the-human-rights-act-prevent-us-deporting-s | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 16:30 - Apr 29 with 1847 views | Davillin |
| Brexiters, why? on 10:35 - Apr 29 by Humpty |
I'm incurably deluded but you're not going to tell me why?
It might be worth pointing out to me where I'm wrong.
I won't mind. I don't throw hissy fits when someone disagrees with me.
It might make me a better person. I'm up for it.
Go on Dav. Tell me why Obama is a dictator and the worst POTUS you've ever had. |
I have neither the time nor the inclination to try to open a closed mind. And you are not to consider that a personal insult or anything near that. Your mind is closed on this subject, as your posts clearly demonstrate.
I have seven years of first-hand almost daily experience with obama and his philosophy about politics, economics, foreign affairs, society, and more, about his lies, and about his misdeeds, on top of a lifetime [I'm almost 80] of living and observing all things political and social in the States. I literally study news and commentary daily in periodicals from countries other than my own -- especially from the U.K. I know what you read and how inaccurate it all is when it comes to matters in the U.S.
I have lived under -- and was aware of -- almost a third of all U.S. presidents. The first presidential election i voted in was for John Kennedy.
I studied American History in college and taught it for about 15 years. I was for many years actively involved in politics at the city and county levels.
Do you actually expect me to put all of that into a book-length essay that I know you will be unable to understand and unwilling to consider?
If you think my refusing to embark on a fool's errand is "a hissy fit," you're deluded about that, too. I'd say your response is far more of a hissy fit than mine to you. You have absolutely no idea of how many times and in how many ways I have been faced with all kinds of adversity, so if you think that one or two posters on PlanetSwans can faze me, you're deluded about that, too.
If you want to become "a better person" in this regard, there are countless avenues available to you -- objective, unbiased books, news programs, and political commentary. The problem is that you have not taken advantage of that material because you have limited yourself to the highly-biased media of the U.K. parroting the highly-biased media of the U.S. -- and steadfastly deny it.
To point out where you are wrong, I would have to start correcting every one of your mistaken conclusions about obama's presidency, examine the myriad flaws he has demonstrated that you are not even aware of, and teach you about the quality of every other U.S. president.
Fool's errands, all.
__________
p.s. I hope you will consider this generous on my part, to point you to a website that is both neutral and highly informative about U.S. political matter. It would be a good start for you.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ [Post edited 29 Apr 2016 16:34]
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| Brexiters, why? on 18:29 - Apr 29 with 1812 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexiters, why? on 16:30 - Apr 29 by Davillin |
I have neither the time nor the inclination to try to open a closed mind. And you are not to consider that a personal insult or anything near that. Your mind is closed on this subject, as your posts clearly demonstrate.
I have seven years of first-hand almost daily experience with obama and his philosophy about politics, economics, foreign affairs, society, and more, about his lies, and about his misdeeds, on top of a lifetime [I'm almost 80] of living and observing all things political and social in the States. I literally study news and commentary daily in periodicals from countries other than my own -- especially from the U.K. I know what you read and how inaccurate it all is when it comes to matters in the U.S.
I have lived under -- and was aware of -- almost a third of all U.S. presidents. The first presidential election i voted in was for John Kennedy.
I studied American History in college and taught it for about 15 years. I was for many years actively involved in politics at the city and county levels.
Do you actually expect me to put all of that into a book-length essay that I know you will be unable to understand and unwilling to consider?
If you think my refusing to embark on a fool's errand is "a hissy fit," you're deluded about that, too. I'd say your response is far more of a hissy fit than mine to you. You have absolutely no idea of how many times and in how many ways I have been faced with all kinds of adversity, so if you think that one or two posters on PlanetSwans can faze me, you're deluded about that, too.
If you want to become "a better person" in this regard, there are countless avenues available to you -- objective, unbiased books, news programs, and political commentary. The problem is that you have not taken advantage of that material because you have limited yourself to the highly-biased media of the U.K. parroting the highly-biased media of the U.S. -- and steadfastly deny it.
To point out where you are wrong, I would have to start correcting every one of your mistaken conclusions about obama's presidency, examine the myriad flaws he has demonstrated that you are not even aware of, and teach you about the quality of every other U.S. president.
Fool's errands, all.
__________
p.s. I hope you will consider this generous on my part, to point you to a website that is both neutral and highly informative about U.S. political matter. It would be a good start for you.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ [Post edited 29 Apr 2016 16:34]
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Would have been a damn sight quicker to write 'because he's black, has a well dodgy Moslem sounding middle name and is a bit lefty compared to GW' to be honest, but what do I know, I'm also just a thick, under educated Brit with no access to world news.
I do hope that one day we also have unfettered access to news from all these informative, neutral sources.
It may mean that we can also then spend our time posting articles from Fox News and the Daily Mash. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:44 - Apr 29 with 1805 views | Davillin |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:29 - Apr 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Would have been a damn sight quicker to write 'because he's black, has a well dodgy Moslem sounding middle name and is a bit lefty compared to GW' to be honest, but what do I know, I'm also just a thick, under educated Brit with no access to world news.
I do hope that one day we also have unfettered access to news from all these informative, neutral sources.
It may mean that we can also then spend our time posting articles from Fox News and the Daily Mash. |
Wow! You're still pitiful -- now falsely accusing me of racial and religious prejudice on no evidence whatsoever [because there is none]..
Shame on you. Shame.
The rest of your post is just bullshit camouflaging intellectual penis envy. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 18:51 - Apr 29 with 1798 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:29 - Apr 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Would have been a damn sight quicker to write 'because he's black, has a well dodgy Moslem sounding middle name and is a bit lefty compared to GW' to be honest, but what do I know, I'm also just a thick, under educated Brit with no access to world news.
I do hope that one day we also have unfettered access to news from all these informative, neutral sources.
It may mean that we can also then spend our time posting articles from Fox News and the Daily Mash. |
Lisa, you know not of what you speak.
Let me ask you 2 simple questions and tell me honestly, ie without googling the answers if you can answer them from what you have seen on the BBC or in the UK Newspapers.
How much the Obama family spent of Tax Payers money using Air Force for Private purposes ie not presidential business?
What do you know of the events surrounding the attack in 2012 on the Benghazi US Embassy? | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:51 - Apr 29 with 1798 views | johnlangy |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:50 - Apr 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
The problem with your analysis is that the Exports from the EU are not shared out equally between the Countries.
I do not have the exact figures, but I a sure that they are available somewhere.
The lion share of the market goes to
Germany, Cars & electrical goods
France, Cars, Electrical goods, ships and wine/cheese etc they also import the Airbus wings, no trade no wings no Airbus. Now you are talking billions not mllions of lost trade to the rest of the world for them, mind you we would lose around a hundred thousand jobs here.
Spain Cars, electrical goods and fruit etc.
Germany as well as the biggest exporter is also the biggest Contributor to the EU fund, followed by France, I think all the others are "hangers on".
So along with our contribution of £11B+ which Germany & France will now have to find they wiil also have to make up for their lost Export Markets as well.
Do you think the other Countries will have much say in the matter?
If Germany & France do not or cannot contribute, what is the point of the others being in the EU if there is no EU Teat to suck on?
Add to this mix the fact that Germany is now trying dictate to the rest of the EU countries how many Migrants they will each take.
Hungary & Poland have already told them to get lost, along with the UK.
Then add in the PIIGS countries that are still borderline broke and unable to control their finances because of the Eurozone and you have a recipe for disaster in the EU. It is a failed idea that is unravelling fast and we want to be out of it before it does. [Post edited 28 Apr 2016 18:56]
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Well, i'll just have to help you with the figures (  ).
I found a file which breaks it down and you're right of course. The figures are far from equal which we'd expect. Of the £290 bn imports £70 bn come from Germany and £37 bn from France. And we send back £45 and £31 bn respectively. So Germany mainly and France will have huge input to what happens in those Trade meetings. Having said that, all members supposedly have an equal vote on such things so how that pans out is anyone's guess. And as you point out, Hungary and Poland have stood up to Germany in regard to migrants (I didn't know that).
I still don't see though how there's any way they can allow the UK to not follow EU rules and regs. As you say both Germany and France sell us loads of cars. Well, if our lot say we'll just ignore a bunch of regulations, like the working time directive for example, that would give our car manufacturers an advantage over theirs. Our cars would be cheaper so in theory our car sales to them would go up and their car sales to us would go down.
It's not exactly scientific I know.
And as regards the PIIGS countries Ireland's growth was 7.7% in 2014 and Spain's economy is due a 'robust' growth this year and next so they're at least in recovery mode. Portugal and Italy are growing slowly but it's probably a fragile growth. Bu what happens to Greece is anyone's guess. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:52 - Apr 29 with 1797 views | the_oracle |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:44 - Apr 29 by Davillin |
Wow! You're still pitiful -- now falsely accusing me of racial and religious prejudice on no evidence whatsoever [because there is none]..
Shame on you. Shame.
The rest of your post is just bullshit camouflaging intellectual penis envy. |
Can you do me a favour. This was a quite interesting thread on Brexit ( or not). Could Dav and the Dav detractors and the Obamaphobes and philes start "yet another thread" on Dav. Obama wants us in. That's all I need to know, no more on Obama's presidency, good or bad, please. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:16 - Apr 29 with 1788 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:44 - Apr 29 by Davillin |
Wow! You're still pitiful -- now falsely accusing me of racial and religious prejudice on no evidence whatsoever [because there is none]..
Shame on you. Shame.
The rest of your post is just bullshit camouflaging intellectual penis envy. |
There is a complete lack of honesty in your opinion of Obama. To some extent, an ineffectual president in many ways, but a president that has been hampered at every turn by a childlike congress unwilling to countenance anything that is proposed. And he is constantly lambasted for it by the mouthpieces of the GOP like Fox News who just don't like him very much. And distort any reality of what he does or tries to do simply because they don't think he's their version of an American. I do not believe him to be a great president, but I rather share the view expressed elsewhere that in time his presidency will come to be viewed with more objectivity and less virulent dislike.
And I have no intellectual envy of you - I am simply Irritated by your constant demeaning comments to other posters caused by your own unfounded intellectual superiority complex. You act as though you are the only member of this forum that is capable of reading and understanding world events. Anyone that disagrees with you is accused of being ignorant or pitiful.
There are any number of posters on this forum that I fundamentally disagree with over most political subjects - Lohengrin is a good example (with apologies). But I don't presume that he is less well read, or ignorant, or incapable of accessing information or similar. I simply accept that he has a different world view to my own. Neither is necessarily correct or incorrect, to assume that would be arrogant beyond belief. Opinions are what they are, not fact nor fiction, but opinions.
It's the whole point of chatting on this forum.
Now I have no personal problem with you at all - I have always enjoyed conversing with you, and we have done so over at least 15 years on and off. But if you can't deal with someone having a different opinion to your own without resorting to insult, I suggest that you put me straight back on ignore as I do not share you opinions on many things.
With respect. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:43 - Apr 29 with 1768 views | Davillin |
Proof positive that your ideas are taken from bias-ravaged UK/US media: You wrote about me: "There is a complete lack of honesty in your opinion of Obama. To some extent, an ineffectual president in many ways, but a president that has been hampered at every turn by a childlike congress unwilling to countenance anything that is proposed." That is false beyond recognition. You are gullible to believe his lie in your last lines.
First, it appears to me that you know nothing of the way the U.S. federal government is supposed to work, and less about how obama has warped it beyond recognition.
Presidents are supposed to work with the Congess, who are solely responsible for legislating. Every good president -- even half-good presidents -- has met regularly and frequently with leaders of the House and Senate on proposed legislation. This president didn't even work with Congress when his party had control of the Senate.
Now do some research. How many times since the Republicans have had control of both houses has he met with representatives of either house to work on proposed legislation?
The truth, if you care to know it, is that he blames the Republicans for not "cooperating," which means, purely and simply, "not doing it his way," when he has never [never] sought to work with them, and which gives him an excuse to flout the Constitution in order to issue "executive orders" in place of, or changing, statutes.
And do some research on how many of the bills presented to him by Congress he has vetoed, or threatened/promised to veto if it were presented to him.
What is fatal to your already fallacious argument is that he lies through his teeth about virtually anything and everything, and has done so since his first election campaign. Your media do not tell you that, probably primarily because they simply copy the U.S. media claque, who never, never point out his pathological prevarications.
Because you fail to understand what I wrote above, you can never understand how irritatingly insulting your comment, reproduced above, is. Nor how wrong you are about his effectiveness as a president.
Wanna discuss his foreign so-called "policy"? It gets worse.
Or his qualifications to be president of a country? And worse. [Post edited 29 Apr 2016 19:43]
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:54 - Apr 29 with 1761 views | Kilkennyjack |
All welsh people should vote to stay in. Thank you. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:56 - Apr 29 with 1758 views | the_oracle |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:43 - Apr 29 by Davillin |
Proof positive that your ideas are taken from bias-ravaged UK/US media: You wrote about me: "There is a complete lack of honesty in your opinion of Obama. To some extent, an ineffectual president in many ways, but a president that has been hampered at every turn by a childlike congress unwilling to countenance anything that is proposed." That is false beyond recognition. You are gullible to believe his lie in your last lines.
First, it appears to me that you know nothing of the way the U.S. federal government is supposed to work, and less about how obama has warped it beyond recognition.
Presidents are supposed to work with the Congess, who are solely responsible for legislating. Every good president -- even half-good presidents -- has met regularly and frequently with leaders of the House and Senate on proposed legislation. This president didn't even work with Congress when his party had control of the Senate.
Now do some research. How many times since the Republicans have had control of both houses has he met with representatives of either house to work on proposed legislation?
The truth, if you care to know it, is that he blames the Republicans for not "cooperating," which means, purely and simply, "not doing it his way," when he has never [never] sought to work with them, and which gives him an excuse to flout the Constitution in order to issue "executive orders" in place of, or changing, statutes.
And do some research on how many of the bills presented to him by Congress he has vetoed, or threatened/promised to veto if it were presented to him.
What is fatal to your already fallacious argument is that he lies through his teeth about virtually anything and everything, and has done so since his first election campaign. Your media do not tell you that, probably primarily because they simply copy the U.S. media claque, who never, never point out his pathological prevarications.
Because you fail to understand what I wrote above, you can never understand how irritatingly insulting your comment, reproduced above, is. Nor how wrong you are about his effectiveness as a president.
Wanna discuss his foreign so-called "policy"? It gets worse.
Or his qualifications to be president of a country? And worse. [Post edited 29 Apr 2016 19:43]
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Please, do us all favour and start a new, separate thread on Obama? You could call it, "Obama. Would you"?
Thanks. | | | |
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