| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:18 - Feb 17 with 1634 views | dgt73 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:10 - Feb 17 by ApeShit |
Another thing people seem to be forgetting is that the Americans won't be able to plough millions into the club even if they wanted to, FFP anyone? |
Stadium and infrastructure investment doesn't count as far as i know. |  |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:20 - Feb 17 with 1629 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:17 - Feb 17 by hammy |
I must admit that although I believe we need a more wealthy form of ownership to take us to the top end of the PL I would be very wary of getting involved with these guys if their previous financial dealings are true. They will obviously just be in it for the money and a quick return on their investment.
I have no particular issue with the current shareholders selling up; it's just the way it is, but they should do proper due diligence on who thy are selling to and the implications for he club. If this is not going to take place then the risk of this sale of shares needs to be brought to public attention, via all means possible. |
there does not exist any longer any route whereby wealthy owners can take us or any other club to the top end of the PL. FFP prevents that from happening.
The only possible way of getting there any longer is organic growth of revenues. This can be achieved with a good (world class good) , marketing team, and off field investment in the academy and stadium size (which can be done with bank loans). |  | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:22 - Feb 17 with 1619 views | dgt73 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:17 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
there is quite a lot actually.
As I said yesterday, the trust may on the face of it be just a 21% shareholder but that masks its power in terms of who it represents. Both from a PR perspective and potentially from an income perspective as well. |
And what power is that? | |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:24 - Feb 17 with 1614 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:22 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
And what power is that? |
you don't think the fan base as a whole has power?
Really? | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:24 - Feb 17 with 1614 views | ApeShit |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:18 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
Stadium and infrastructure investment doesn't count as far as i know. |
How much more income do you think we'll get with an extra 8000 seats? (After we've finished paying for it that is.) |  | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:26 - Feb 17 with 1609 views | dgt73 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:20 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
there does not exist any longer any route whereby wealthy owners can take us or any other club to the top end of the PL. FFP prevents that from happening.
The only possible way of getting there any longer is organic growth of revenues. This can be achieved with a good (world class good) , marketing team, and off field investment in the academy and stadium size (which can be done with bank loans). |
FFP may well be breaking national and European law and may well get tested soon in court. | |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:29 - Feb 17 with 1602 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:26 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
FFP may well be breaking national and European law and may well get tested soon in court. |
oh right. That's why the UK's wealthiest club challenged the ruling then when they were fined £50m ... oh wait!
For God's sake - stop with the nonsense and spin. | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:30 - Feb 17 with 1600 views | dgt73 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:24 - Feb 17 by ApeShit |
How much more income do you think we'll get with an extra 8000 seats? (After we've finished paying for it that is.) |
That's not what I said. As far as I know a club can spend whatever cash it wants on the clubs infrastructure and this doesn't get taken into account by FFP. For example a club could build a new stadium for £100 million and this would be ok and FFP rules would not be broken. | |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:34 - Feb 17 with 1593 views | dgt73 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:29 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
oh right. That's why the UK's wealthiest club challenged the ruling then when they were fined £50m ... oh wait!
For God's sake - stop with the nonsense and spin. |
What were they fined for ? And if you were right no club that has aspirations of playing in Europe, could ever expand or build a new stadium. I think you need to find what FFP means to a club like Swansea, because you are wrong. | |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:36 - Feb 17 with 1590 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:30 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
That's not what I said. As far as I know a club can spend whatever cash it wants on the clubs infrastructure and this doesn't get taken into account by FFP. For example a club could build a new stadium for £100 million and this would be ok and FFP rules would not be broken. |
yes it can, but it can only spend on the team an additional £4m per year on salaries plus extra income from new commercial activities and can only make a loss (total) of £15m over 3 years unless the owners put in equity (not loans, equity).
So having an extra 8,000 people paying an average of £300 p.a. (including kids & concessions) is £2.4m you can spend on players salaries. And that doesn't take into consideration the additional cost of getting those 8,000 in (staff, stewarding, running costs etc). So if we're lucky we may end up with an extra £1m to spend on players / wages.
Hardly going to get us on a level playing field with Chelsea is it? | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:36 - Feb 17 with 1589 views | dgt73 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:29 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
oh right. That's why the UK's wealthiest club challenged the ruling then when they were fined £50m ... oh wait!
For God's sake - stop with the nonsense and spin. |
FFP has not been challenged in court yet. | |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:36 - Feb 17 with 1588 views | waynekerr55 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:29 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
oh right. That's why the UK's wealthiest club challenged the ruling then when they were fined £50m ... oh wait!
For God's sake - stop with the nonsense and spin. |
Sad times.
Jack to a king... Jack to a run of the mill club |  |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:38 - Feb 17 with 1583 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:34 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
What were they fined for ? And if you were right no club that has aspirations of playing in Europe, could ever expand or build a new stadium. I think you need to find what FFP means to a club like Swansea, because you are wrong. |
I know exactly what it means. I'm not sure that you do though? Nothing to do with expansion. Bizarrely, it's the team that has to be better to get to 'Europe' or whatever, not the stadium. | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:39 - Feb 17 with 1582 views | ApeShit |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:36 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
yes it can, but it can only spend on the team an additional £4m per year on salaries plus extra income from new commercial activities and can only make a loss (total) of £15m over 3 years unless the owners put in equity (not loans, equity).
So having an extra 8,000 people paying an average of £300 p.a. (including kids & concessions) is £2.4m you can spend on players salaries. And that doesn't take into consideration the additional cost of getting those 8,000 in (staff, stewarding, running costs etc). So if we're lucky we may end up with an extra £1m to spend on players / wages.
Hardly going to get us on a level playing field with Chelsea is it? |
I don't think he gets it. | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:39 - Feb 17 with 1581 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:36 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
FFP has not been challenged in court yet. |
I know.
I was pointing out that if Man City didn't challenge it and instead took a £50m fine then it doesn't seem that easy to challenge? | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:41 - Feb 17 with 1574 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:39 - Feb 17 by ApeShit |
I don't think he gets it. |
which is genuinely concerning actually.
The whole problem with FFP is it pulled up the drawbridge and stopped any challenge to the established order. That's why we (as a club) were against it weren't we? | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:42 - Feb 17 with 1570 views | sixpenses |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:15 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
No, in an ideal world Huw Jenkins and the rest of the board would continue with the status quo, but if some board members want to sell for whatever reason, then there ain't much we can do. |
There is quite a lot we can do as I have repeatedly said and the time is now as Tommy says
There is also a lot the shareholders can do to protect the future of the Trust
OR NOT if massive greed more important than the objective with which we set out on this joint venture. Lots of food in the trough without gorging on it. | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:45 - Feb 17 with 1563 views | dgt73 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:39 - Feb 17 by londonlisa2001 |
I know.
I was pointing out that if Man City didn't challenge it and instead took a £50m fine then it doesn't seem that easy to challenge? |
Let's wait and see. Just because there hasn't been a challenge so far doesn't mean there will not be one. I would have thought most fans would be against FFP, because it favours the big clubs....but now some on here want to use it as another example as why investment is not needed. Lol | |
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| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:48 - Feb 17 with 1560 views | icecoldjack |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 12:20 - Feb 17 by sixpenses |
Depends how you define a breath of fresh air
1. History - Dubious and indicative of serious concern
2. Motivation - taking pots of cash out of our club
3. Achieve 2 by majority takeover
4. If Trust at all bothersome in preventing 2, dilute out of existence
5. Investment - the £30m is a private share sale the club sees none of it. All goes to the personal wealth of those that want this to go ahead!
6. Selling point - saddling us with potentially crippling loans that will likely make little difference (could be wasted on 1 dud player). Could source any loans required for capital expenditure privately without selling our club down the river
7. Experience in making lots of money - so they can take it our of our club. Get in hardcore professionals to achieve the same based on high income target bonus. Achieve same result without selling our club down the river
8. Commitment to our club - as long as 2 increasing
9. Quality of football - potentially all that is pragmatically needed to keep the money coming in
10. When 2 stops being enough / things start going down hill / the fatted calf is ready for the pot  - sell to anyone who offers the cash, anyone or asset strip
Our club is for our area and our fans and for future generations. That was the aim when it was saved. Seems only those without potential pocket fulls of cash to make are seriously considering the considerable risk to it's future existence. Others seem happy to go out with a bang on one final sh1t or bust extravaganza
If a man in a car with previous self serving history offers a child a sweet. It is possible that they are just being kindly and everyones best interests will be served. As a parent what would you advise.
Suck it and see?
or
JUST SAY NO
Why will the other sharholders not let the Trust get 25%. Because it will make the club less desirable to those that may want to take it over and milk it. Which in turn would reduce the quite obscene windfall profits (when made on the back of supposedly saving our club then selling it down river) to be made by the current shareholders from this sale. Reducing them to just excellent windfall profits.
How much profit can a self painted philanthropist take
In the words of Frank Zappa anything over a mouth full is wasted
Why do the others want the Trust to sell - to absolve their greed when things go wrong (as sooner or later they must). We were not acting in self interest, because the Trust had nothing to gain (just the best interest of the Club) and they sold too. We were all doing it in the best interests of the Club.
Alternatively we will finish in the top 4 - and win the Champions league for a million years until it becomes so boring we take up crown green bowls for excitement
RIP SCFC and all that was special about our club |
I think hits the nail on the head for most of us.
It just makes all the things said about our model football club empty and worthless if we go down the road of selling to an outside investor with no local feel for the city and club. |  | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:49 - Feb 17 with 1555 views | sixpenses |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:22 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
And what power is that? |
The power to stop this
You don't need to be strongest you just need to know where to apply the fulcrum
Excellent background reading
Just William - "The Weak Spot" | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:51 - Feb 17 with 1546 views | londonlisa2001 |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:45 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
Let's wait and see. Just because there hasn't been a challenge so far doesn't mean there will not be one. I would have thought most fans would be against FFP, because it favours the big clubs....but now some on here want to use it as another example as why investment is not needed. Lol |
No - what's happening is that you are spinning a line and some of us are pointing out the flaws in that line because we are not the idiots that we are supposed to be.
Perhaps a rethink on the way to 'sell this' is needed?
Lol. | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 15:16 - Feb 17 with 1501 views | Nookiejack |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:45 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
Let's wait and see. Just because there hasn't been a challenge so far doesn't mean there will not be one. I would have thought most fans would be against FFP, because it favours the big clubs....but now some on here want to use it as another example as why investment is not needed. Lol |
Back the takeover everyone as think FFP will be challenged in the European Courts at some stage. (Sorry don't actually know when). The courts are bound to rule that FFP is unlawful - allowing new benevolent owners to splash loads of cash - as we can't stand still.
Great Arguments for the Takeover. | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 16:21 - Feb 17 with 1433 views | johnlangy |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 12:30 - Feb 17 by dgt73 |
Ah no it's not a case of thinking we can take on Man City, Chelsea, but more the board think they have taken the club as far as they can. ( yes they will make money but so what) This is the price of success and being in the PL, the alternative is let's get relegated and go back to what and where we have come from. The up-side for people who don't like what may happen is that no-one will force them to spend their money at the club, tickets, merchandise etc. maybe fc of Swansea will appear soon. |
Why is the alternative relegation ? We're doing perfecty well thank you at the moment without outside investment (I know it's not investment by the way so no need for anyone to point it out). | | | |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 16:29 - Feb 17 with 1419 views | tomdickharry |
| John Jay Moores and Charles Noell investment as early as next month on 14:48 - Feb 17 by icecoldjack |
I think hits the nail on the head for most of us.
It just makes all the things said about our model football club empty and worthless if we go down the road of selling to an outside investor with no local feel for the city and club. |
Wonder if Man City fans care two hoots about the past of their club when they see the PL trophy sitting in the trophy room,the loyalty of fans to a club is overstated if we were relegated we would be down to 15000 gates in the blink of an eye.As I have stated on many occasions if the correct fiscal controls are in place any new investment will be a very good agenda for our club,if it does not happen we will stagnate.Talking of our club as a model what about a far bigger club than our Chelsea,weren't they sold for a £1 and what has investment done for them.
Talk about the graveyard of ambition-
Swansea City Council meeting all those years ago-
Motion put is to remove the Mumbles Railway too scrap,all in favour,thank you. | | | |
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