| A serious question ?? 14:09 - Oct 23 with 2398 views | TalkingSutty |
I have been mulling things over and during the last few months i have been asking myself this question regarding the club we all love.
Is there a cunning plan been hatched at board level to run the club down. Actually run it down to the point where we end up in the Blue Square or even worse having to go out of existance ?
I look at our attendances and the fact that even after waiting so long for promotion the home support still didnt increase and i am now seriously thinking have the Chairman and directors given up ?
The seeming inability or reluctance of the Chairman and Directors to rectify our off-field problems and motivate people within the club to even do the basics right,leads me to my initial question
Maybe its just me being over dramatic, but i cant think of any other reason why the club is just being allowed to lurch along !! |  | | |  |
| A serious question ?? on 14:47 - Oct 23 with 1913 views | judd |
I very much doubt that there is a planned demise, after all, the Directors are fans as well.
As there are no public pronouncements on the vexxing issues, fans are left to speculate and will undoubtedly base decisions on what could be incorrect information.
Despite all their best intentions, and it being the most professional it has ever been, the Trust does appear to have been marginalised by the Board. I do think there is a deep routed desire to keep Trust members from the main board, which is sad really, as they, too, are fans, many of whom run their own successful businesses.
There does seem to be a laissez faire attitude, what will be will be, don't try anything new or at least not for any length of time.
I, too, am amazed that during half term and with two home games in the week, absolutely NOTHING has been done to boost the crowd attending.
The only thing I see the club pushing is the fookin' Xmas Draw. In October, for christ's sake. |  |
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| A serious question ?? on 14:50 - Oct 23 with 1906 views | MoonyDale |
You have mail TS |  |
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| A serious question ?? on 14:54 - Oct 23 with 1898 views | TalkingSutty |
| A serious question ?? on 14:47 - Oct 23 by judd |
I very much doubt that there is a planned demise, after all, the Directors are fans as well.
As there are no public pronouncements on the vexxing issues, fans are left to speculate and will undoubtedly base decisions on what could be incorrect information.
Despite all their best intentions, and it being the most professional it has ever been, the Trust does appear to have been marginalised by the Board. I do think there is a deep routed desire to keep Trust members from the main board, which is sad really, as they, too, are fans, many of whom run their own successful businesses.
There does seem to be a laissez faire attitude, what will be will be, don't try anything new or at least not for any length of time.
I, too, am amazed that during half term and with two home games in the week, absolutely NOTHING has been done to boost the crowd attending.
The only thing I see the club pushing is the fookin' Xmas Draw. In October, for christ's sake. |
I suspect you are right with your explanation that the Chairman/directors are also fans, so maybe my initial post is wide of the mark. Having said that the way the club seems to be just drifting along still leads me to believe that the prospect of slipping out of the league or even going under could become a very real possibility in the not too distant future. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 15:06 - Oct 23 with 1873 views | Sandyman |
I think your last two words of Sutty's OP ("lurch along") sum Rochdale AFC up perfectly! The powers that be have accepted keeping league status and financial survival as the targets to achieve for many a year. Anything more than that has been a bonus.
As fans, after a generally excellent first decade of this century, we liked what we got then - it got us out of the "lurch along" mentality and we, quite reasonably, want more of the same. Sadly, "lurch along" does appear to have become the club's default position again, leading to apathy amongst the dwindling fanbase who are apparently looking elsewhere for more motivating lesiure pursuits. Money and numbers of fans we can ill afford to lose. If 100 fans stop coming to Spotland, that's 5% of the customer base gone.
In such tight economic times, "lurch along" has to be changed, pro-actively, or the next few years could lead to the scenario TS suggests - Blue Square and demise. Avoiding that will require change, strong leadership, and a management team that can provide the results. Such a change is down to those in the positions to make it happen. |  | | |
| A serious question ?? on 15:08 - Oct 23 with 1864 views | judd |
| A serious question ?? on 14:54 - Oct 23 by TalkingSutty |
I suspect you are right with your explanation that the Chairman/directors are also fans, so maybe my initial post is wide of the mark. Having said that the way the club seems to be just drifting along still leads me to believe that the prospect of slipping out of the league or even going under could become a very real possibility in the not too distant future. |
Then if the off field performance of the club is creating such dissatisafaction, it is up to the shareholders to force some action. That could be in a number of ways, including voting off Directors, blocking Board proposals, suggesting alternative Directors, etc. Not entirely sure what the Company rules allow in these circumstances, but the shareholders don't just have to accept the performance as it is. It just needs someone organised and au fait with meeting shenanigans to pull it together.
Don't forget, though, that the board has appointed 3 new associate directors, so maybe time should be afforded this decision in order to see the effect of these appointments. | |
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| A serious question ?? on 15:13 - Oct 23 with 1852 views | aleanddale |
Also a serious question >>
Has the club got a General Manager? one whos FULL TIME job is the overall non playing responsibility??
In reply to the OP ( TS normally on the money but wide of the mark here ) There could be every chance that the club slips into the conference or further but never in a million years would that be the wish or intention of this current board.
No i dont think they have given up but things do need to change.
back to the General Manager - You could get a very good one on lets say a fringe players wage.
There is a school of thought that a good General Manager ( non playing responsibility ) could be the best investment the club ever made. |  | | |
| A serious question ?? on 15:14 - Oct 23 with 1848 views | phomem |
It's in no ones interest to run the club down. I'd say it's more of a case of tightening belts and looking for those young diamonds to sell on. |  | | |
| A serious question ?? on 15:20 - Oct 23 with 1839 views | TalkingSutty |
| A serious question ?? on 15:13 - Oct 23 by aleanddale |
Also a serious question >>
Has the club got a General Manager? one whos FULL TIME job is the overall non playing responsibility??
In reply to the OP ( TS normally on the money but wide of the mark here ) There could be every chance that the club slips into the conference or further but never in a million years would that be the wish or intention of this current board.
No i dont think they have given up but things do need to change.
back to the General Manager - You could get a very good one on lets say a fringe players wage.
There is a school of thought that a good General Manager ( non playing responsibility ) could be the best investment the club ever made. |
I am just genuinley baffled as to why the Chairman and Board cant see the wood for the trees, the fans can see it but they cant.
There has to be a explanation why as a club we are being allowed to go backwards, because thats whats happening off the field and its been that way for the last 5 years or so and nothings been done about it. My theory is the only one i can come up with .
These people are businessmen, would they just sit back and let their own companies just drift backwards or would they address the problem and employ people to rectify it !! [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| A serious question ?? on 15:30 - Oct 23 with 1810 views | judd |
| A serious question ?? on 15:20 - Oct 23 by TalkingSutty |
I am just genuinley baffled as to why the Chairman and Board cant see the wood for the trees, the fans can see it but they cant.
There has to be a explanation why as a club we are being allowed to go backwards, because thats whats happening off the field and its been that way for the last 5 years or so and nothings been done about it. My theory is the only one i can come up with .
These people are businessmen, would they just sit back and let their own companies just drift backwards or would they address the problem and employ people to rectify it !! [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I don't think it is the case that nothing is being said or done. I don't believe that things are ignored. It's just apparent that whatever is happeneing is not warming the cockles of the hearts of the fans with any sort of vitality whatsoever.
The recession is a convenient excuse. Those who have prospered and grown during the recession have taken a different approach to the one that worked before. They've been brave and lucky, probably in equal measure.
With regard unearthing a diamond, the manager's policy has been to sign the tried and tested. He is no Keith Hill, so we may as well do the Euro lottery. | |
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| A serious question ?? on 15:40 - Oct 23 with 1794 views | aleanddale |
some great questions for the fans forum there TS.
Is anyone brave enough to ask?.
Football in 2012 is a business. Sadly we look more like a business when the sales reps had bags of 2p's and stood in line waiting to use phone box's at service stations!!.
The buck stops with Mr Dunphy i am afraid and as fantastic a bloke as you would wish to meet he might have to start upsetting a few people!!. How about a completely new look at how the whole club is set up and re write and publish a new 5 year plan. Remember that one that shocked us when Hilly mentioned the championship???
well we got very VERY close!!.
This might upset some club employees but just who are they answerable too and who sets there objectives and reviews there performance?. Do they have to demonstrate they have growth plans for the areas they look after and what is the consequence of not performing??
If Mr Dunphy reads this then please have a look with a fresh set of eyes, there are enough businessmen on the board!! get rid of all the dead wood or underperforming staff and employ a tough no nonesense General Manager who can underpin what foundations we have ( there are still quite a few ) and start to build properly!!!
It wouldnt take much but to do nothing now could have disasterous consequence. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 16:09 - Oct 23 with 1748 views | TalkingSutty |
| A serious question ?? on 15:40 - Oct 23 by aleanddale |
some great questions for the fans forum there TS.
Is anyone brave enough to ask?.
Football in 2012 is a business. Sadly we look more like a business when the sales reps had bags of 2p's and stood in line waiting to use phone box's at service stations!!.
The buck stops with Mr Dunphy i am afraid and as fantastic a bloke as you would wish to meet he might have to start upsetting a few people!!. How about a completely new look at how the whole club is set up and re write and publish a new 5 year plan. Remember that one that shocked us when Hilly mentioned the championship???
well we got very VERY close!!.
This might upset some club employees but just who are they answerable too and who sets there objectives and reviews there performance?. Do they have to demonstrate they have growth plans for the areas they look after and what is the consequence of not performing??
If Mr Dunphy reads this then please have a look with a fresh set of eyes, there are enough businessmen on the board!! get rid of all the dead wood or underperforming staff and employ a tough no nonesense General Manager who can underpin what foundations we have ( there are still quite a few ) and start to build properly!!!
It wouldnt take much but to do nothing now could have disasterous consequence. |
The problem with a fans forum is they can very quickly descend into a slanging match when difficult questions are asked. It can also become personal which could involve members of staff and to start talking about individuals in public meetings is not on and can lead to employment/disciplinary issues further down the line.
Lets put it this way, if i was percieved as failing in my job i wouldnt appreciate my employer discussing my position with a hundred or so beer swilling members of public. I will ask my questions and discuss issues with the relevant person when the opportunity arises, i just think putting the Chairman on the spot at a forum regarding certain sensitive issues isnt the way to do it. I am sure plenty others disagree. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 16:36 - Oct 23 with 1693 views | aleanddale |
| A serious question ?? on 16:09 - Oct 23 by TalkingSutty |
The problem with a fans forum is they can very quickly descend into a slanging match when difficult questions are asked. It can also become personal which could involve members of staff and to start talking about individuals in public meetings is not on and can lead to employment/disciplinary issues further down the line.
Lets put it this way, if i was percieved as failing in my job i wouldnt appreciate my employer discussing my position with a hundred or so beer swilling members of public. I will ask my questions and discuss issues with the relevant person when the opportunity arises, i just think putting the Chairman on the spot at a forum regarding certain sensitive issues isnt the way to do it. I am sure plenty others disagree. |
but the forum isnt a vehicle to pose fluffy questions and blow smoke up the backsides of directors either!!.
The valid questions and points can be raised in a way that is purposeful and constructive?.
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| A serious question ?? on 17:22 - Oct 23 with 1630 views | TalkingSutty |
| A serious question ?? on 16:36 - Oct 23 by aleanddale |
but the forum isnt a vehicle to pose fluffy questions and blow smoke up the backsides of directors either!!.
The valid questions and points can be raised in a way that is purposeful and constructive?.
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You have to draw a line though and discussing members of staff at the club and their percieved failings and expecting a realistic answer from the Chairman/directors isnt going to happen. There are employment laws and the club would be leaving themselves wide open if they crossed the line.
How do you feel about the Trust asking why there has been no communication regarding their offer of joining the board and what are the Chairmans and directors feelings on the issue ?
The questions will have all been pre-empted and answers prepared accordingly, well thats what i would do anyway if i was going into a open forum, you dont have to be Einstein to gauge what low ballers might be asked. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| A serious question ?? on 00:03 - Oct 24 with 1492 views | pl56 |
| A serious question ?? on 17:22 - Oct 23 by TalkingSutty |
You have to draw a line though and discussing members of staff at the club and their percieved failings and expecting a realistic answer from the Chairman/directors isnt going to happen. There are employment laws and the club would be leaving themselves wide open if they crossed the line.
How do you feel about the Trust asking why there has been no communication regarding their offer of joining the board and what are the Chairmans and directors feelings on the issue ?
The questions will have all been pre-empted and answers prepared accordingly, well thats what i would do anyway if i was going into a open forum, you dont have to be Einstein to gauge what low ballers might be asked. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Going back to aleandales point , the critical issue is one of setting objectives and ensuring they are achieved . If the right business systems are in place , people who consistently fail to meet and achieve objectives can , and should be , fairly and justly terminated . Its not about the message board being arbiters in that sense , its about having proper and robust procedures in place .
This is what happens in any other business sector , and , like others , I fail to see why otherwise successful businessmen do not adopt the same principles in running a football club .
Objectives should include marketing the club , growing it , and maximising income from all possible sources through innovation and basic salesmanship . If we don't grasp that nettle , then I agree with with your original supposition , that the club is very much in danger of withering on the vine . | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 08:05 - Oct 24 with 1394 views | aleanddale |
| A serious question ?? on 00:03 - Oct 24 by pl56 |
Going back to aleandales point , the critical issue is one of setting objectives and ensuring they are achieved . If the right business systems are in place , people who consistently fail to meet and achieve objectives can , and should be , fairly and justly terminated . Its not about the message board being arbiters in that sense , its about having proper and robust procedures in place .
This is what happens in any other business sector , and , like others , I fail to see why otherwise successful businessmen do not adopt the same principles in running a football club .
Objectives should include marketing the club , growing it , and maximising income from all possible sources through innovation and basic salesmanship . If we don't grasp that nettle , then I agree with with your original supposition , that the club is very much in danger of withering on the vine . |
Perfect.
Agree 100%.
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| A serious question ?? on 08:10 - Oct 24 with 1387 views | aleanddale |
| A serious question ?? on 17:22 - Oct 23 by TalkingSutty |
You have to draw a line though and discussing members of staff at the club and their percieved failings and expecting a realistic answer from the Chairman/directors isnt going to happen. There are employment laws and the club would be leaving themselves wide open if they crossed the line.
How do you feel about the Trust asking why there has been no communication regarding their offer of joining the board and what are the Chairmans and directors feelings on the issue ?
The questions will have all been pre-empted and answers prepared accordingly, well thats what i would do anyway if i was going into a open forum, you dont have to be Einstein to gauge what low ballers might be asked. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I put the following on another Thread TS. Yes its a great question and i hope the Trust ask. No response is just poor >>>>
But out of courtesy a response acknowleding the offer would have been the right thing to do with a notification on when the offer would be considered.
Its the non communication that to me looks most worrying. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 09:59 - Oct 24 with 1327 views | R17ALE |
| A serious question ?? on 00:03 - Oct 24 by pl56 |
Going back to aleandales point , the critical issue is one of setting objectives and ensuring they are achieved . If the right business systems are in place , people who consistently fail to meet and achieve objectives can , and should be , fairly and justly terminated . Its not about the message board being arbiters in that sense , its about having proper and robust procedures in place .
This is what happens in any other business sector , and , like others , I fail to see why otherwise successful businessmen do not adopt the same principles in running a football club .
Objectives should include marketing the club , growing it , and maximising income from all possible sources through innovation and basic salesmanship . If we don't grasp that nettle , then I agree with with your original supposition , that the club is very much in danger of withering on the vine . |
Well said.
I'm not 100% certain on this, but I suspect not one of the 13 (thirteen) members of off field staff (that's 13 by the way!) have a job description, a given target, and a weekly plan.
13!! I remember the days when we couldn't muster up 13 players and Tom Nichol did the job of 13 off the pitch!! |  |
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| A serious question ?? on 11:33 - Oct 24 with 1264 views | aleanddale |
| A serious question ?? on 09:59 - Oct 24 by R17ALE |
Well said.
I'm not 100% certain on this, but I suspect not one of the 13 (thirteen) members of off field staff (that's 13 by the way!) have a job description, a given target, and a weekly plan.
13!! I remember the days when we couldn't muster up 13 players and Tom Nichol did the job of 13 off the pitch!! |
Commercially this is a huge concern that needs addressing.
It goes back to we need a FULL TIME hard nosed - not bothered if the apple cart is upturned General manager who makes nothing but business decisions.
This is more of a worry than if a not fully fit Cav starts on Saturday v Fleetwood!! | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 12:28 - Oct 24 with 1223 views | 49thseason |
My sense is we are on a long, drawn out, journey to extinction.
Crowds are falling, the quality of players is falling because we can't pay top wages and therefore fewer people turn up to watch. And once people stop attending they often stop for ever.
We are in a downwards spiral commercially with only one way out: massive financial input.
The harsh fact is that league 2 football at £15-£20 is too expensive in Rochdale especially twice in a week. This should have been seen early and addressed by the board during the summer - Season ticket prices should have been slashed which would then give room to manoeuvre on turnstile prices. Rochdale will take years to come out of recession so the problem is present and ongoing.
Big reductions at the turnstiles would now enrage season ticket holders so we are locked-in on prices for another season and people are saving money by missing games which has the knock on effect of making the ground look empty which in turn spoils the atmosphere and encourages other people to stay away.
I believe the board have to take responsibility and grab the situation by the throat:
We have the better part of 8000 empty seats at every game so Mr Dunphy...
1. Reduce turnstile prices now (my suggestion would be £12 maximum) and offer existing season ticket holders a guaranteed reduction off next season as compensation.
2. Engage a marketing manager to sell the new prices as if his life depended on it 3. Shut the club shop and move all merchandise sales online and offer a town centre shop a franchise.( wages saved = marketing manager)
4. Develop an Email list of supporters and produce an Email newsletter at least a week ahead of each home game so there is no doubt about when games are to be played, when they start, what the Manager thinks, etc. (repeat the day prior to the match if necessary).
5. Start treating supporters like customers and make sure pie stands are open, stewards are pleasant, announcements are audible (and tell us stuff we need to know like when the next match is), kick for cash takes place at the other end occasionally, seats are cleaned and probably dozens of other things that annoy people are sorted out.
6. Stop assuming people will turn up as usual (they won't and they aren't).
7. Get out of the Directors seats and get into the crowd - find out what we think
8. Act on your findings or explain why you are not doing so.
And if you can't or won't do any of the above without good reasons and telling us what those reasons are...
9. Take a long hard look at you leadership of the club because the paying public has had a taste of success and is no longer prepared to put up with tin pot, half a*ssed, make do and mend attitudes at these prices.
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| A serious question ?? on 12:54 - Oct 24 with 1194 views | aleanddale |
| A serious question ?? on 12:28 - Oct 24 by 49thseason |
My sense is we are on a long, drawn out, journey to extinction.
Crowds are falling, the quality of players is falling because we can't pay top wages and therefore fewer people turn up to watch. And once people stop attending they often stop for ever.
We are in a downwards spiral commercially with only one way out: massive financial input.
The harsh fact is that league 2 football at £15-£20 is too expensive in Rochdale especially twice in a week. This should have been seen early and addressed by the board during the summer - Season ticket prices should have been slashed which would then give room to manoeuvre on turnstile prices. Rochdale will take years to come out of recession so the problem is present and ongoing.
Big reductions at the turnstiles would now enrage season ticket holders so we are locked-in on prices for another season and people are saving money by missing games which has the knock on effect of making the ground look empty which in turn spoils the atmosphere and encourages other people to stay away.
I believe the board have to take responsibility and grab the situation by the throat:
We have the better part of 8000 empty seats at every game so Mr Dunphy...
1. Reduce turnstile prices now (my suggestion would be £12 maximum) and offer existing season ticket holders a guaranteed reduction off next season as compensation.
2. Engage a marketing manager to sell the new prices as if his life depended on it 3. Shut the club shop and move all merchandise sales online and offer a town centre shop a franchise.( wages saved = marketing manager)
4. Develop an Email list of supporters and produce an Email newsletter at least a week ahead of each home game so there is no doubt about when games are to be played, when they start, what the Manager thinks, etc. (repeat the day prior to the match if necessary).
5. Start treating supporters like customers and make sure pie stands are open, stewards are pleasant, announcements are audible (and tell us stuff we need to know like when the next match is), kick for cash takes place at the other end occasionally, seats are cleaned and probably dozens of other things that annoy people are sorted out.
6. Stop assuming people will turn up as usual (they won't and they aren't).
7. Get out of the Directors seats and get into the crowd - find out what we think
8. Act on your findings or explain why you are not doing so.
And if you can't or won't do any of the above without good reasons and telling us what those reasons are...
9. Take a long hard look at you leadership of the club because the paying public has had a taste of success and is no longer prepared to put up with tin pot, half a*ssed, make do and mend attitudes at these prices.
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49th i am cutting and pasting that onto the other thread ( ) that i am printing tomorrow and taking to the club.
Hope thats ok. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 13:00 - Oct 24 with 1183 views | 49thseason |
| A serious question ?? on 12:54 - Oct 24 by aleanddale |
49th i am cutting and pasting that onto the other thread ( ) that i am printing tomorrow and taking to the club.
Hope thats ok. |
Feel free - I hope you have a fruitful trip but I suspect you are wasting your petrol. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 13:56 - Oct 24 with 1133 views | nigewilson |
Great post. Shocked at the crowd last night.
Can't help but look at how a football club can really weave itself into a town - in my new adopted home of Brighton.
Cast your mind back to pre Amex Stadium days when the Seagulls were playing at the Withdean Stadium. Dreadful crowds, zero publicity and presence in the town. In steps Tony Bloom (aka 'The Lizard' - but we'll forgive him that).
Admittedly, pumping almost £100m into the club is going to help, but under his ownership there is a real buzz about the place. The club is featured everywhere - flyers in pubs, clubs, coffee shops, promotions, family offers. It really feels like a club going somewhere. Brighton's population is 480,000 (including towns along the coast to Littlehampton), Rochdale (metrop borough) - 206,000.
Trust me, this place has plenty more to offer than football, plus it is not a very wealthy part of the world and full of students. The big London clubs are just a 45 minute train journey away.
We draw around 10 times less fans to home games, yet we have almost half the population. Big money will always help, but some imaginative marketing and promotion for a team in a playoff position has got to be a good place to start. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 14:07 - Oct 24 with 1115 views | aleanddale |
| A serious question ?? on 13:00 - Oct 24 by 49thseason |
Feel free - I hope you have a fruitful trip but I suspect you are wasting your petrol. |
I just cant give in though.
I am going to go through this process as best i can.
If the club still does nothing then at least i have tried. | | | |
| A serious question ?? on 14:09 - Oct 24 with 1111 views | 49thseason |
| A serious question ?? on 14:07 - Oct 24 by aleanddale |
I just cant give in though.
I am going to go through this process as best i can.
If the club still does nothing then at least i have tried. |
Good luck anyway - let us know what happens (or not as the case may be).
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| A serious question ?? on 14:33 - Oct 24 with 1101 views | chuckleberry |
Targeting the future generation of this club, particularly during school holidays, would seem like the most logical starting point. We need to market and make ourselves more attractive to those who will be attending, hopefully, in the future.
It's far too easy to watch football on tv today; unlike when most of us started going and live football was the only option. Buy one, get one free/ kids for a quid, anything to entice them in. Once in, however, we need to make sure we stand out from the crowd and offer them something else as the football might not be enough. If we can keep just a few of them it would be a start.
Has anyone consulted the children of the borough and asked them what they would like to experience on match days? If we can't make an effort to carve a relationship with these there might not be a club in the future. That would be a very sad day. |  | | |
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