| EGM + statement on 18:16 - Feb 20 with 4289 views | D_Alien |
| EGM + statement on 18:08 - Feb 20 by 442Dale |
Yeah, I know. But what are the alternatives because without asking them somewhere or trying to find out more, we’re in a position reflected in that statement today.
Being backed up against the wall is one thing, but are we even being given a chance to see what the routes out are?
And yeah, those questions might not work, but people have plenty more I’m sure. Imagine being a non shareholder and not even being given a chance to say something, anything. There will be so much worry and upset amongst supporters tonight. That needs to be acknowledged and addressed if possible. |
I'm in full agreement about what SHOULD happen... but we've been here before, many many times
I doubt the BoD are in any mood to field those questions. Note:
" A frequently asked questions document will be issued to shareholders in the coming days, which will help to explain the proposed resolutions further."
Facing up to upset, angry, incandescent, murderous fans is more than i believe they'll be able to manage
It's a balance that all need to think about, and this discussion is valuable in that regard [Post edited 20 Feb 18:18]
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| EGM + statement on 18:23 - Feb 20 with 4214 views | 442Dale |
Whilst everything is still relatively new to this latest development, it’s worth considering the reaction should something similar have happened under a previous regime. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 18:28 - Feb 20 with 4181 views | 442Dale |
| EGM + statement on 18:16 - Feb 20 by D_Alien |
I'm in full agreement about what SHOULD happen... but we've been here before, many many times
I doubt the BoD are in any mood to field those questions. Note:
" A frequently asked questions document will be issued to shareholders in the coming days, which will help to explain the proposed resolutions further."
Facing up to upset, angry, incandescent, murderous fans is more than i believe they'll be able to manage
It's a balance that all need to think about, and this discussion is valuable in that regard [Post edited 20 Feb 18:18]
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Which is why a separate fans meeting, away from a forum environment, should be on the table as an option once the club/Trust have provided updates.
Though they might want to provide further information to fans as well. They’re all too quickly overlooked when it becomes about shareholders, but they’ll have seen what’s come out today and are just as important as anyone able to vote. | |
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| EGM + statement on 18:31 - Feb 20 with 4145 views | RAFCBLUE |
This day has been coming since Andrew Kelly’s infamous statement in June 2020:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2020/june/statement--andrew-kelly/
After that statement and whilst Kelly was Chair, the club lost £1.2m in 2021.
With a new Board it lost £0.5m in 2022 and if you assume has lost the same in 2023 and 2024 takes that to about £2.7m over 4 years. It will be there or thereabouts.
Meanwhile, 6 former shareholders sold shares privately for circa £1.2m in 2021 for 42%, as we were told by an international football broker and the EFL.
The current board bought those for £0.5m
Today’s statement is clear, “we would have gone nowhere near the club had we been aware of the hostile takeover attempt that followed.
This looks to be an attempt to put a new £2m into the club. To do that there needs to be a debate and then a vote by shareholders.
Shareholders will now ultimately get to decide which direction the club takes, unlike 2021. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 18:40 - Feb 20 with 4044 views | D_Alien |
| EGM + statement on 18:28 - Feb 20 by 442Dale |
Which is why a separate fans meeting, away from a forum environment, should be on the table as an option once the club/Trust have provided updates.
Though they might want to provide further information to fans as well. They’re all too quickly overlooked when it becomes about shareholders, but they’ll have seen what’s come out today and are just as important as anyone able to vote. |
No-one is questioning how important non-shareholding fans are relative to those who hold shares: we all put money into the club
A fans meeting is a great idea / necessary, just not as per the Forum structure | |
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| EGM + statement on 18:44 - Feb 20 with 3999 views | 442Dale |
| EGM + statement on 18:40 - Feb 20 by D_Alien |
No-one is questioning how important non-shareholding fans are relative to those who hold shares: we all put money into the club
A fans meeting is a great idea / necessary, just not as per the Forum structure |
Oh I know we aren’t. But imagine being a non shareholder reading that thinking other fans who do have a few shares having a vote to save/possibly liquidate the club. Thats why the fans meeting was a priority in my mind - maybe didn’t make that too clear! (see, I come back on here and acknowledge points raised by others and try and answer. Because that’s respectful.)
It doesn’t sit right, even in the predictable nature of what’s occurred. [Post edited 20 Feb 18:46]
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| EGM + statement on 18:52 - Feb 20 with 3922 views | Toffeemanc |
| EGM + statement on 18:01 - Feb 20 by Newbury_Dale |
What are the Uneconomical Leases referring to in SGs statement ? Didn't understand that. |
Hornets I would imagine |  |
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| EGM + statement on 18:59 - Feb 20 with 3868 views | Sandyman |
The EGM of 17 November 2022, asked shareholders to:
"Resolutions
1. THAT, in accordance with paragraph 42(2)(b) of Schedule 2 of the Companies Act 2006 (Commencement No. 8, Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2008, the authorised share capital of the Company be amended so that the maximum amount of shares that may be allotted by the Company will be 1,350,000 shares.
2. THAT, subject to the passing of resolution 1, in accordance with section 551 of the Companies Act 2006, the directors of the Company (Directors) be generally and unconditionally authorised to allot shares in the Company up to an aggregate nominal amount of £225,000 (450,000 shares @ £0.50 per share) provided that –
a. this authority shall, unless renewed, varied or revoked by the Company, expire at not less than 5 years from the date this resolution is passed; and
b. all shares allotted pursuant to the authorisation hereby conferred shall be so allotted at no less than £2.35 per share."
This price has been defended vigorously by the club. The EGM of 7th March 2024 now asks shareholders:
"Authority to Allot New Class of Shares and Class Rights
2. THAT, subject to the passing of resolution 1, in accordance with section 551 of the Companies Act 2006, the
directors of the Company (Directors) be generally and unconditionally authorised to allot 9,000,000 ordinary A
shares of £0.22p each in the capital of the Company having the rights and restrictions as set out in paragraphs 2.1,
2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 below provided that –
a) this authority shall, unless renewed, varied or revoked by the Company, expire at not less than 5 years
from the date this resolution is passed; and
b) all ordinary A shares allotted pursuant to the authorisation hereby conferred shall be so allotted at no less
than their nominal value."
What do our financial wizards make of this? Differences between ordinary shares and A shares? That and the railroading of the shareholders right to vote by show of hands looks like a "fook off you lot" by stealth to small shareholders who have stood by the club for years. |  | | |
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| EGM + statement on 19:05 - Feb 20 with 3815 views | judd |
| EGM + statement on 18:16 - Feb 20 by Dalenet |
I think Murray is best resigning from the Board asap to allow the Trust some breathing space here. In December shareholders were told of the cost challenges and the money the Chairman and Board was having to put in, but we were told that the club was now operating at break even. Yes were also told that we were expecting the proceeds of a player sale in January that didn't come.
In early January, following the Trust meeting with the Dale Board, it was agreed that a further 50,000 shares would be made available to Dale fans to buy. The Trust also got the Board to agree to the aggregate scheme for smaller purchases.
Within 7 weeks of that we are being told that time is up and we run out of cash next month. Adminstration isn't an option as I assume one or more major directors will want assets disposed of to repay them - or other major creditors. We have no idea whether we have other non loan debt such as outstanding HMRC debt. Hence the suggestion of liquidation.
So anybody that bought shares since the Trust & Board meeting have done so when it was clear all along that we were likely to go under. Buying shares is always a judgement call, but the timing of this share issuance is questionable.
So if shareholders approve the motions and the club can issue unlimited shares at whatever price, and the key Director A Shares are then allowed to appoint or sack Board members, and the A Shares get preference in any liquidation, as I read it the Trust and any fan owned ordinary shares are worthless - either as a voting option, or as an investment. New owners, or the current Director A share holders have full authority and ownership. If we don't have a buyer lined up.....I can see a number of scenario's here - but none will be influenced by the fans or the Ordinary share shareholders.
A dark day - a message that probably wouldn't have been issued this afternoon had we not postponed tonights game. [Post edited 20 Feb 18:21]
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The 50,000 shares being made available was 100% a unilateral club decision announced after the AGM of 21st December. Nothing to do with the Trust. |  |
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| EGM + statement on 19:31 - Feb 20 with 3607 views | somdale |
We must be the only fan based club that has no fans, that's the ultimate problem with Dale, a lack of interest in the town.
Good luck to everyone trying hard to save us, it looks a hard task.
Squeaky bum time isn't it. |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 19:50 - Feb 20 with 3451 views | nordenblue |
| EGM + statement on 18:08 - Feb 20 by 442Dale |
Another good question. |
A certain poster will be along shortly to shuffle the deck chairs around with some baffling financial content.... we can all see right through it, the silence all along tells its own story | | | |
| EGM + statement on 19:52 - Feb 20 with 3429 views | kel |
| EGM + statement on 19:50 - Feb 20 by nordenblue |
A certain poster will be along shortly to shuffle the deck chairs around with some baffling financial content.... we can all see right through it, the silence all along tells its own story |
Saying “football is broken” will solve all our problems I’d imagine. |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 19:53 - Feb 20 with 3416 views | pioneer |
| EGM + statement on 19:31 - Feb 20 by somdale |
We must be the only fan based club that has no fans, that's the ultimate problem with Dale, a lack of interest in the town.
Good luck to everyone trying hard to save us, it looks a hard task.
Squeaky bum time isn't it. |
That is far from the truth…many people dug deep into their pockets, bank accounts and piggy banks during very hard economic times to buy shares to avoid the club being taken over by a bunch of *******.
Now those fans are being told told they are the problem to some billy big balls taking over the club.
From heros to zeros in what…two years.
No Mr Gauge, the fans ownership of part of the club is not the problem, your mismanagement of the club is. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 20:07 - Feb 20 with 3272 views | somdale |
Many people by Rochdale standards, it's not in anyway a dig at the supporters we have, those doing the things they do behind the scenes are heroic, but as far as selling a club goes, the size of it's customer base isn't big enough.
There is an apathy in the town as far as the football club is concerned, then you have the fans who will only support us when things are ok or going well. I've never understood that sort of support. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 20:37 - Feb 20 with 3059 views | Reedy |
| EGM + statement on 19:53 - Feb 20 by pioneer |
That is far from the truth…many people dug deep into their pockets, bank accounts and piggy banks during very hard economic times to buy shares to avoid the club being taken over by a bunch of *******.
Now those fans are being told told they are the problem to some billy big balls taking over the club.
From heros to zeros in what…two years.
No Mr Gauge, the fans ownership of part of the club is not the problem, your mismanagement of the club is. |
The last line of this post is absolutely spot on. | |
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| EGM + statement on 20:57 - Feb 20 with 2902 views | ThreeLions |
RIP RAFC. |  | | |
| EGM + statement on 21:00 - Feb 20 with 2868 views | EllDale |
Is it too early to start making plans for the Phoenix club? Serious question. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 21:06 - Feb 20 with 2804 views | James1980 |
This does not have to be RAFC 1907-2024. | |
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| EGM + statement on 21:29 - Feb 20 with 2624 views | 442Dale |
| EGM + statement on 21:00 - Feb 20 by EllDale |
Is it too early to start making plans for the Phoenix club? Serious question. |
This subject was raised by supporters back in the summer at one of the Trust meetings.
As noted in this thread:
And revisited here:
No cup run money / Dale Trust supporters meeting by 442Dale 14 Oct 2023 17:17With a potentially crucial revenue stream now not able to be exploited, planning for possible future scenarios takes on even more importance as time continues to tick by. For reference, again, supporters showed real interest at the fans meeting with the Trust on the 25th August in looking at what role we can all play, and a further meeting was requested that evening with it being stressed how important it was to not let too much time pass - before the Halifax and Barnet games were two suggestions (the 2nd and 16th of September).
Last Sunday the following was posted on this messageboard:
Specific details about the opportunities for volunteers are due to be released by the end of this week.
On the other subjects raised in this thread it is crucial the fans meeting the Trust have planned is confirmed as soon as possible. The lack of clarity around our current situation is becoming an obvious problem.
The importance of this fans meeting was established in the Trust newsletter released at the start of October:
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/20
<<“ We have a fans meeting planned for later this month. It is currently booked in for the morning of the Oldham game. However, given the issues that we faced when we held a meeting ahead of the Bromley game, we are looking at what will be the best way of hosting that event. It is important that such a meeting is held ahead of our meeting with the Directors a few days later, but with a larger crowd expected for this game, it may be counter productive. We will update members sooner rather than later with respect to this.”>>
So, since that post on the 8th and then noting that the newsletter came out at the start of the month, has anyone heard anything about the already scheduled fans meeting? Especially as we were expecting to hear “sooner rather than later”. Or any updates from the volunteer meeting for that matter.
Results should never impact delaying achievable work on the future of the football club, whether it’s when we were winning, or even today. But everyone knows how going out of the cup will be a definite financial blow.
[Post edited 20 Feb 21:30]
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| EGM + statement on 21:43 - Feb 20 with 2509 views | DaleFan7 |
| EGM + statement on 21:00 - Feb 20 by EllDale |
Is it too early to start making plans for the Phoenix club? Serious question. |
It would be interesting to know if the Trust have any such contingencies in place. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 21:55 - Feb 20 with 2391 views | Dalenet |
| EGM + statement on 19:05 - Feb 20 by judd |
The 50,000 shares being made available was 100% a unilateral club decision announced after the AGM of 21st December. Nothing to do with the Trust. |
Thanks for putting me right there Judd. My memory is playing tricks. | | | |
| EGM + statement on 22:00 - Feb 20 with 2337 views | judd |
| EGM + statement on 21:55 - Feb 20 by Dalenet |
Thanks for putting me right there Judd. My memory is playing tricks. |
I know that feeling 😕 | |
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| EGM + statement on 22:10 - Feb 20 with 2256 views | TomRAFC |
| EGM + statement on 18:31 - Feb 20 by RAFCBLUE |
This day has been coming since Andrew Kelly’s infamous statement in June 2020:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2020/june/statement--andrew-kelly/
After that statement and whilst Kelly was Chair, the club lost £1.2m in 2021.
With a new Board it lost £0.5m in 2022 and if you assume has lost the same in 2023 and 2024 takes that to about £2.7m over 4 years. It will be there or thereabouts.
Meanwhile, 6 former shareholders sold shares privately for circa £1.2m in 2021 for 42%, as we were told by an international football broker and the EFL.
The current board bought those for £0.5m
Today’s statement is clear, “we would have gone nowhere near the club had we been aware of the hostile takeover attempt that followed.
This looks to be an attempt to put a new £2m into the club. To do that there needs to be a debate and then a vote by shareholders.
Shareholders will now ultimately get to decide which direction the club takes, unlike 2021. |
Suggesting that the current situation has been an inevitability since 2020, that has only coincidentally happened on their watch, is completely and utterly disingenuous of you.
Less than 2 years ago - "At April 2022, the club has a stable financial platform and cash reserves to be well positioned for next season. We have returned during 2021/22 to being a properly and prudently run football club and aligned our financial reporting year to 30th June alongside many other EFL clubs."
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/april/chairmanmessageseasoncards_22-23/
Even recently, we were told at the AGM in December 2023 that we had broken even for the first 2 quarters, such were the improvements made.
We never returned to being a properly and prudently run football club because they don't know what that looks like. This board had the heart and the cash to save the club from the takeover, but they have never had the skills to run it and have subsequently run it into the ground. Yes, the takeover was a factor in that but so is their poor management of the club.
There's a lot to be read and understood within the motions, but I no longer have confidence in the boards abilities to manage any of the possible outcomes. They don't have the skills to run a football club properly, and it's hard to have confidence in their ability to arrange the right deal to sell one.
We've already lost our league status and will likely soon lose our academy. The shares bought by the fans and the trust to save the club could be almost diluted out of existence. Our ground could have zero protection on it. These were the things we were known for as a club.
These motions may be designed to save the club, but I'm wondering what we'd actually have left. [Post edited 20 Feb 22:21]
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