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Someone phone Ronaldo (slim) and tell him he can go back to the sand, as Messi has finished with the desert!
Of the two, I always thought Messi the better player, and nicer bloke too. But in terms of GOAT, it’s impossible to definitively decide. Pele (probably for me) made football post-war. He played on crap pitches, with balls and boots that weighed a ton and, like Maradona, at a time when they had lumps kicked out of them every game. Those two playing in the modern era of conditioning, better nutrition, rule changes and ref protection would still be phenomenal. Maybe more so.
As exceptional as Ronaldo (slim) was, never a doubt when comparing with Messi as to who was better. For me, the latter nudges ahead of Maradona and stands next to Pele in the debate.
But I wonder: if ‘Messi’ was born in Rotherham, would little Leonard Messithorpe have turned out to be the genius his Argentine comparator has? And, what if such a genius was unearthed in Rotherham today, would we turn out a candidate for GOAT or not?
For I cannot help but wonder if Best and Gazza started out in any other country, would they have turned out differently?
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
(No subject) (n/t) on 08:45 - Dec 19 by traininvain
Pele, Maradona and Messi. It’s the three of them at the top table in any order. The likes of De Stefano, Cruyff, Best, Brazilian Ronaldo etc just behind.
It’s too difficult to compare different eras. Maradona probably reached the highest heights between the mid 80’s and 1990 winning the World Cup and two league titles with Napoli. But Messi has been doing this consistently for 15+ years and to finally win the World Cup at 35 years old. Wow.
Easy to forget that Messi /Argentina lost three finals in a row between 2014 to 2016, two of them on penalties. Messi’s Argentina career was dead and buried. His obituaries had been written. Now they’ve won a Copa America and World Cup final back to back. Incredible and I doubt we’ll ever see something like this again.
I was too young to watch Pele but his World Cup and goal scoring records tell a story. He’ll forever be part of the conversation.
I can see arguments for any of the big three. It probably depends to an extent upon the era you watched most of your football. I’ve watched Messi since he was a youngster making his Barcelona debut. I started watching La Liga religiously on Sky purely to see what Messi would do next, more often than not laughing at the ridiculousness of it all. I made a football pilgrimage to Camp Nou purely to see him in the flesh. I doubt I’ll ever follow a footballer to this extent again so my judgment is probably biased but I’m forever grateful for the moments Messi has given to me as a football fan. Gracias, Leo.
[Post edited 19 Dec 2022 8:57]
I’ve been there 3 times to see Messi play,and I don’t think I would travel that far to watch anyone else.He did things and moved places that weren’t always shown on tv,so I’m glad I had the chance to see him play live.Pele was special too,as was Maradona. It is hard to choose between the 3 of them.
He could do it all and also he did it with weaker players. It's much easier being Messi, Ronaldo and Pele with all these other great players to support you.
The proof is with Napoli a poverty-stricken working-class city. No team in southern Italy had ever won the league title before, let alone Napoli. It is like Barnsley winning the Prem. And then a few years later he helped them win it again, proving it was no fluke.
Maradonna was also the top scorer in the top flight, despite playing AMC! Baresi stated Maradona was the toughest player he played against, a view also shared by his Milan teammate Paolo Maldini.
With Argentina in 1986 he won the world cup and the rest of the team was not that great. HE totally dominated that whole competition. In the final match West Germany attempted to contain him by double-marking, but he nevertheless found the space past the West German player Lothar Matthäus to give the final pass to Jorge Burruchaga for the winning goal.
He was just awesome. So, why is his record less than the others? Well, he did way too many Drugs and ruined his body. But he was the best, no doubt.
One of the all time greats winning the biggest trophy in football doesn’t change a thing?
Of course it does. It doesn’t make Messi a better player as we all knew before Sunday’s final that he was an all time great. But it certainly adds weight to his claim to be the greatest of all time.
I don’t think it’s as simple as comparing goals scored and trophies won. The top three (Pele, Maradona and Messi) played in different eras and whilst Pele and Maradona had to play on cabbage patch pitches with defenders kicking lumps out of them, Messi’s player in an era where the standard and fitness level is undoubtedly better.
Pele scored most of his goals in Brazil and was pretty much kicked out of one World Cup. Maradona had a few years when he won Serie A twice with Napoli and a World Cup scoring the greatest goal of all time in the process. Messi has been consistently the best player of his generation for 15+ years culminating in back to back Copa America and World Cup wins at the age of 35. It’s basically take your pick!
Not sure if anyone has explicitly pointed this out already, but Ronaldo frequently comes across as a bit of a vvanker! I assume this particular criterion wasn’t used in the calculation.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
I think whether or not you think Messi is better than Ronaldo depends upon your outlook as a football fan. If you believe football is the beautiful game, and follow it for the spectacle, Messi is your man because he's an artist with unparalleled vision, movement, ball control, skill etc etc. If you like headers and ego's, its Ronaldo.
Comparisons with Maradona and Pele are apples and oranges. The game is completely different now in terms of sports science, quality of pitches, tactical style, quality of opponent and many other variables to the one they played. The present cannot always be compared with the past.
One of the all time greats winning the biggest trophy in football doesn’t change a thing?
Of course it does. It doesn’t make Messi a better player as we all knew before Sunday’s final that he was an all time great. But it certainly adds weight to his claim to be the greatest of all time.
I don’t think it’s as simple as comparing goals scored and trophies won. The top three (Pele, Maradona and Messi) played in different eras and whilst Pele and Maradona had to play on cabbage patch pitches with defenders kicking lumps out of them, Messi’s player in an era where the standard and fitness level is undoubtedly better.
Pele scored most of his goals in Brazil and was pretty much kicked out of one World Cup. Maradona had a few years when he won Serie A twice with Napoli and a World Cup scoring the greatest goal of all time in the process. Messi has been consistently the best player of his generation for 15+ years culminating in back to back Copa America and World Cup wins at the age of 35. It’s basically take your pick!
Stephane Guivarc’h has won more world cups than Cristiano Ronaldo. Does it make him a better footballer?
Pele’s achievements can’t be denied and I can see arguments for him being the greatest of all time. Likewise, Messi and Maradona. But it’s too simplistic to say that number of World Cup wins should decide the debate.
Stephane Guivarc’h has won more world cups than Cristiano Ronaldo. Does it make him a better footballer?
Pele’s achievements can’t be denied and I can see arguments for him being the greatest of all time. Likewise, Messi and Maradona. But it’s too simplistic to say that number of World Cup wins should decide the debate.
I didn't say that. But when you add it up with the individual stats, IMO he is still the greatest player to ever play the game.
I didn't say that. But when you add it up with the individual stats, IMO he is still the greatest player to ever play the game.
Fair enough. Pele’s a bit before my time. I don’t think there’s a wrong or right answer. It probably depends on which of the three has given you most enjoyment as a football fan.
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