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I think Kakay is better left back cover than Nico . He has played their before, after substitutions . He can do a stand in job all along the back four IMO
And, yet again, it's a budget thing. Sure, be lovely to have three left backs on staff. Can't afford to do it, so you have to make do with what you've got.
If we want to be properly competitive, we also need a new left back as cover for Paal as Niko is away with the fairies, a creative midfielder to improve on Dozy and Jojo, and probably a reserve striker if we can release Bonne (or even if we can't). As Beale has said, the squad isn't there yet, and it isn't, even if it has some real promise already. I like Kakay too, but he's limited at best and a liability at worst, and Laird looks like a signficant upgrade from what I've seen.
Clearly, we need to both develop our own youung players (which we've been failing to do for far too long) and use the loan market selectively and intelligently to enhance the squad. The team needs to be 'ours' as far as possible, though, or sustainability is a sham. The Florist 'model' is soul-destroying, and god help us if we were promoted that way.
Sadly, the game has deteriorated badly (ludicorus acceleration of the business side of the game (with 'realistic' fan buy-in), head-turning agents, the insatiable greed of the 'top clubs' in hoovering lower league talent) since the days when Allen and Goddard were ripping up the Football Combination, we brought them through, got fantastic service from them, and helped them on in their careers when the time was right for us and them.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2022 16:32]
It certainly wasn't right for us when we sold Allen & Goddard!
It may have been for Gregory & Docherty, but not for us as supporters. I understood accepting a million for Allen as it was too good an offer to turn down, but then selling Goddard was a kick in the b******s to us!
Likely that Laird will go back and we will be back in for McNamarra if he doesn’t extend his contract at Millwall.
McNamara has just signed a new long term contract at Millwall. Got what he wanted by using us. As for Kakay it's conveniently forgotten about his poor Chesterfield loan or that Partick used him on the right wing rather than full back.
And, yet again, it's a budget thing. Sure, be lovely to have three left backs on staff. Can't afford to do it, so you have to make do with what you've got.
Beale says he likes players to be versatile and able to play different ways and positions.
Kakay is ideal defensively for that . we have loads of cover but I think he could even cover a holding midfield role as well, certainly better than Masterson
If we want to be properly competitive, we also need a new left back as cover for Paal as Niko is away with the fairies,
We do. But we might also need someone if Paal turns out to be not as advertised, or semi-permanently wounded. Are their no other LB's in our system at all?
If we want to be properly competitive, we also need a new left back as cover for Paal as Niko is away with the fairies, a creative midfielder to improve on Dozy and Jojo, and probably a reserve striker if we can release Bonne (or even if we can't). As Beale has said, the squad isn't there yet, and it isn't, even if it has some real promise already. I like Kakay too, but he's limited at best and a liability at worst, and Laird looks like a signficant upgrade from what I've seen.
Clearly, we need to both develop our own youung players (which we've been failing to do for far too long) and use the loan market selectively and intelligently to enhance the squad. The team needs to be 'ours' as far as possible, though, or sustainability is a sham. The Florist 'model' is soul-destroying, and god help us if we were promoted that way.
Sadly, the game has deteriorated badly (ludicorus acceleration of the business side of the game (with 'realistic' fan buy-in), head-turning agents, the insatiable greed of the 'top clubs' in hoovering lower league talent) since the days when Allen and Goddard were ripping up the Football Combination, we brought them through, got fantastic service from them, and helped them on in their careers when the time was right for us and them.
If we want to be properly competitive, we also need a new left back as cover for Paal as Niko is away with the fairies,
We do. But we might also need someone if Paal turns out to be not as advertised, or semi-permanently wounded. Are their no other LB's in our system at all?
It certainly wasn't right for us when we sold Allen & Goddard!
It may have been for Gregory & Docherty, but not for us as supporters. I understood accepting a million for Allen as it was too good an offer to turn down, but then selling Goddard was a kick in the b******s to us!
God, I remember us selling Allen & Goddard, painfully. I think Goddard hurt more than Allen because he went first. Plus, as you say, we got £1m for Allen. I just thank God Mark Hateley or Iain Dowie were not around at that time to be bought as their replacements. That pain was deferred for a few years.
If we want to be properly competitive, we also need a new left back as cover for Paal as Niko is away with the fairies,
We do. But we might also need someone if Paal turns out to be not as advertised, or semi-permanently wounded. Are their no other LB's in our system at all?
Not sure who plays left-back in our U'23s but rather than another loan can they at least be back-up to a back-up?
God, I remember us selling Allen & Goddard, painfully. I think Goddard hurt more than Allen because he went first. Plus, as you say, we got £1m for Allen. I just thank God Mark Hateley or Iain Dowie were not around at that time to be bought as their replacements. That pain was deferred for a few years.
Should call the School End the Paul Goddard stand.
Quite. Beat Les over the head for giving in to Warburton, and criticise Warburton for leaving us with the squad we had at full back, but don’t do the former without the latter, whilst saying we should have kept Warburton. It is illogical.
As I’ve said many times, Warburton was given what he wanted too much, against the gut instincts of our DoF and CEO. Given how we finished it cost him his job.
I think Les, Hoos, the rest of the Board all look back and wish they’d been stronger. We might not have finished as high last year, but we might have been better placed going into this season.
The irony of that is I wonder if Warburton, if he's really honest, might accept that it cost him his job and it would have better for him if LF, Hoo and the Board had been stronger.
The focus is on the manager/coach, but the DoF, CEO and Board are all his bosses. Sometimes you need your boss to be firm, in your own interest. That way, If you do what they ask and it doesn't work out, then it's no fault of yours. Better than them not being clear on what they want.
It certainly wasn't right for us when we sold Allen & Goddard!
It may have been for Gregory & Docherty, but not for us as supporters. I understood accepting a million for Allen as it was too good an offer to turn down, but then selling Goddard was a kick in the b******s to us!
Fair point, that deal may have been contestable, but the player wanted the move and the club chose to cash in. But how I miss those days of watching both our reserves and juniors and seeing a fair crop of them come through and excel. I don't know how much our decline in that respect has to do with our not identfiying and holding onto younger talent, the coaches no longer doing the job they did, or players getting their heads turned at stupidly early ages (I wonder how Josh Bowler is feeling now he's turning out for Balckpool, after four years going nowhere at Everton), but there's no doubt football 'clubs' are not what they were, and we fans have played our part in rolling over and letting the game be taken away from us.
It's been a theme all the way through that we have a DOF, and a DOF system, but only some of the way.
Every manager that's been here under it has been allowed to do their own thing, and it's often been to the detriment of the medium and long term aims and 'what we're supposed to be doing' because managers go with players they know and like (and, ahem, agents they know and like) and players they think will get them a result this week to help them stay employed and to hell with the long term. JFH was allowed to sign people like El Khayati, Holloway was about to be allowed to release Ryan Manning on a free transfer until he got desperate and picked him, McClaren got away with all sorts of sht (tearing up the summer plans, demanding loan signings to pad the team, ignoring Manning and BOS), Warburton like we say was allowed people like Ball, Wallace, Moses, and they stuck with him over Sndre Gray when Les wanted him sent back. Even now, Beale very keen to point out that JCS and Paal are his men, and the club know how that PRs so they've stuck something about the analytics team watching them anyway on the end of it.
I'd rather we went all in on that side of the business and even further away from 'what manager wants manager gets' but we sort of try and do all three so you end up with a squad made up of manager signings, analytics signings, and players from the Hall/Ramsey side of the business.
Without knowing the full details I think that may be a bit harsh. JCS and Paal were allegedly, on Andy Belk's radar. But Beale has been around long enough to know up and coming players from many clubs.
Might all be bull sh1t but I'll take it as gospel
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The Hall/Ramsay side of the business has produced nothing. Both are living on past reputations. Eze, Chair and Dieng were hardly here 10 mins and went out on loan to develop.
I think Alan Sugar made a good point when he said he'd rather be PM than run a football club. Let's face it there's thousands of us and almost as many opinions on how we'd run things.
I think we do try and square an impossible circle. We are trying to make money from developing players, have a balance of youth and experience, avoid relegation, balance the books, challenge for promotion, play football that's attractive enough to keep the fans coming. While trying to build the club on a solid financial footing and develop infrastructure.
It might seem muddled and without a coherent strategy, as some aims are competing but honestly would we really want to drop any of these ambitions. I certainly wouldn't and I think if we did we'd either alienate at least some of the fan base or risk our future as a club.
Without knowing the full details I think that may be a bit harsh. JCS and Paal were allegedly, on Andy Belk's radar. But Beale has been around long enough to know up and coming players from many clubs.
Might all be bull sh1t but I'll take it as gospel
I thought Paal was from the analytics team and JCS was from Beale. But that's all guesswork.
Those two will take time to fit once fit, I feel we play a different style than either player is used to.
Only skimmed this thread but there seems to be 3 themes going on:
1) is laird going to have a Kyle Walker impact, or be a flop loan signing, or somewhere in the middle. He has a good amount of championship experience and comes with a decent reputation so hopefully an improvement on Kaykay, but at least we have cover for one right back injury. Good luck to the lad. Hopefully a mutually beneficial season ahead.
2) A feeling of betrayal that we are loaning and not giving our own youth a chance. Firstly, we only have one right back at the club who came through our youth and the only other cover is an actual youth with zero experience who Beale said is not ready. So no probs with the load. KayKay has played pre-season and had chances to impress so far. Who is to say he will not be given a fair chance to chance to compete with Laird… (depending on how much we are contractually obliged with Laird). I am in the camp of actually being impressed with Kaykay towards the end of last season and also with the start of this. I think he is good cover. Ok defensively and tries to get forward but lacks quality when he does get forward. Good cover and ok right back for mid to lower table team.
On the general thread of not giving our own youth a chance. What world are you living in. Kakay has had a chance to shine. Nico was called back and has been seen on training and assessed. Mide Shodipo is currently getting his chance. Sinclair Armstrong has been kept and being introduced to championship level football rather than the obvious option of a league 1 loan where he could get 90 mins and some goals in his belly before coming back to us more ready. Jude-Boyd and gubbins given chance to train with the first team. We are clearly giving our youth more of a chance. Adding competition to them where needed all while trying to build as competitive team as we can. Some people just look for things to moan about
3) Mark Warburton being unfairly dismissed with not giving youth the apparent biggest reason for his departure.
Case for MW: if you look at our continued progress under him and mostly progressive league finishes the sacking is harsh. Youth not being good enough during his time probably fair.
Case against MW: if you believe the rumours and understand the grey areas, nuances and general common sense about how the world works, chances for our youth cannot be the only reason for his sacking. I don’t know the details. But off the top of my head…. Our capitulation from strong playoff team to becoming powder puff. Even if our youth was not good enough, we’re they actually properly assessed and given a chance before that conclusion was made. Hearing rumours of a general breakdown in communication and relationships with other parts of the qpr set up. Argument that if he couldn’t take us to playoffs last year then would he be able to do it this year? So maybe a change and diff approach would be a better bet
Not sure on that one. Thought it was harsh on MW overall. But I have moved on and am all on the Mick Beale bandwagon. Hope he gets this year and next to build his team and looking forward to seeing how it goes
I don’t think Laird is going to hinder kakay’s development much. Kakay will play in a number of positions this season, if good enough. And if he isn’t good enough, he isn’t suddenly going to get coached into a world beater. We can’t play him just because he’s a product of our youth team, he has to be good enough too. Why is Beale allowed to get loans in, ahead of our home produced players, when warburton (in the end) wasn’t? Probably attitude and intention. Beale may be encouraging our younger lads to step up, whereas Warburton may have been too concerned with sending the message that they weren’t good enough.
The Hall/Ramsay side of the business has produced nothing. Both are living on past reputations. Eze, Chair and Dieng were hardly here 10 mins and went out on loan to develop.
not sure thats entirely fair. Eze speaks highly of both of them saying they were a major part of his development
Some on here are overlooking the fact that we *have* developed Kakay, we've developed him into a mid table Championship squad player, which means we dont have to buy or loan depth in the 2-3 positions he can cover. We can't though do a season with a backup quality player as our first and only option in a key area, that's why we've loaned someone.
We're also having to loan now 'rather' than develop because Warburton, enabled by the board, left us in a position where we had no viable full backs of sufficient first team quality, and no money left to buy any.
What should have happened is that we said no to Wallace extension, no to money for Moses and no to chunks of budget being spent on the likes of Austin, and instead focused on recruiting players such as Perry Ng (*350k to Cardiff), or Harry Pickering (*650k Blackburn), or Kane Wilson (Free to Bristol). Maybe we'd have had enough to actually get McNamara this summer, if we liked him so much...
Instead we're here, back at the sticking plaster phase and waiting for more headroom through sales to (hopefully) make the right decisions. Too much focus on appeasing the manager and a mouthy social media fanbase, not enough tough decisions and smart resource allocation. On that basis I think 1 perm, 1 loan and 2 youth team back ups - all under 25 - is a fair solution.
No club on earth (big statement, totally unable to back it up ) has ever fielded a team of 11 home produced players.
Its total fantasy - you can't always tell if players are good enough until they play the game at the level they are aiming for - exactly why Laird has come here - Man Utd, or anyone else, are never gong to use the first team just to see how the academy boys cope with 1st team football!
And as for MW, worth repeating a view, I know Dave B at least (and surely others) share -we finish 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, MW is still here.
Celtic famously won the European cup with a team of locally based players. May well have signed some from other Scottish clubs though.
I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with bringing in better players, if the remit is to get the best players in by whatever means. To be clear, I want QPR to win as many games as possible, and get promoted as soon as possible, because IMO, that gives us the best chance of securing our long-term future.
But, that’s not what the club had been putting out. We had a manager who left us in a far, far better position than the one he inherited, again, IMO. That, to me, is progress. And yet, he’s no longer here, his failure to give adequate opportunity to young players strongly rumoured to have been one of the issues causing friction.
He’s replaced by someone, with an undeniably impressive coaching CV, but no management experience. But, as a club, nothing seems to be changing in terms of the development, or lack of, of our players.
This is not about MW, or MB, it’s about people at the club, seemingly, playing fast and loose, unless, of course, there was more to MW’s departure, as one or two have alluded, although without expanding.
Probably the wrong thread, the wokes will jump on it, just as they would jump on it if it was on a thread of it’s own.
Anyway, good luck to the lad. He looks very decent indeed. I hope he does well but that Ossie, somehow, keeps developing so that we’re not doing the same in a year’s time.
This trend of referring to anyone with a different opinion as "woke" really is tiresome.
I don’t think Laird is going to hinder kakay’s development much. Kakay will play in a number of positions this season, if good enough. And if he isn’t good enough, he isn’t suddenly going to get coached into a world beater. We can’t play him just because he’s a product of our youth team, he has to be good enough too. Why is Beale allowed to get loans in, ahead of our home produced players, when warburton (in the end) wasn’t? Probably attitude and intention. Beale may be encouraging our younger lads to step up, whereas Warburton may have been too concerned with sending the message that they weren’t good enough.
I agree but also we've got rid of several expensive players from last season: Wallace, Austin, Gray, Odubajo, maybe Barbet and Macallum. I think we almost certainly have a Roberts and Paal for the cost of Austin, and so on. I hope that's true.
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) has ever fielded a team of 11 home produced players.