| Bye bye bye Johnson on 22:49 - Jul 12 with 1687 views | Hunterhoop |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 21:25 - Jul 12 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Disagree on the Inflation bit but I think we are very much in agreement elsewhere! |
It’s such a difficult (and bad) position to be in with sharply rising inflation out of control.
I’d love to solve the cost of living crisis by easing the burden on joe public’s wallet or pushing through wage rises which put more money in those wallets. But both risk (and it’s a likely outcome) accelerating inflation.
And inflation hits the poorest the hardest because wages and investment in state services always lag behind. You can say, well, do the above and there won’t be a lag. But a) you can’t do the above simultaneously for all so some lose out disproportionately (I’m only talking about across the lower/middle incomes here) and secondly, when rampant inflation has taken hold you must cool demand, otherwise it continues and continues. The only way you cool demand in a globalised, capitalist economy is to reduce consumption. How do you do that? Interest rate rises encourage savings over spending (forcing business to reduce prices and cut profits to maintain market share) but they butcher those with big (comparatively to their income) mortgages (so the lower and middle incomes). Sadly, a key lever is holding back wage increases to cool disposable income. In the long run it can be argued to be for the benefit of the lower incomes. But it feels incredibly unfair.
It’s the hardest thing in politics managing rampant inflation. It’s brought down many a govt and ruined many a developing nation.
And we have these selfish charlatans in charge.
Lytham’s analogy is right. |  | |  |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 23:01 - Jul 12 with 1655 views | kensalriser |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 22:23 - Jul 12 by dmm |
Most other countries use some form of proportional representation in their elections and are quite able to form and run their governments. The UK is among the few still using the outdated FPTP system but it will one day change. |
The only other country in Europe with a straight first past the post system is Belarus, which no one even pretends is a democracy. |  |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 04:41 - Jul 13 with 1540 views | Damo1962 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 12:55 - Jul 12 by dmm |
As one of the ministers who propped up and defended Johnson, Badenoch is as guilty as anyone for supporting the lies, chaos and incompetence of the current PM.
She dismisses the notion of white privilege, is weak on racism and discrimination and doesn't want the facts about colonisation to be taught in schools. |
She'll get my vote then. I never really noticed just how left-wing most QPR supporters are. Well done to Sheffield for standing up for a different take on this post. |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 04:43 - Jul 13 with 1540 views | Damo1962 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 13:41 - Jul 12 by Maggsinho |
Kemi Badenoch has just used her launch campaign to attack Ben and Jerry for having a social conscience. She's a complete loon. |
Or Corporate "Virtue signalling". | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 04:49 - Jul 13 with 1540 views | Damo1962 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 15:41 - Jul 12 by Ranger_Things |
The majority don’t hold Conservative views or follow ‘traditional Tory values’ though. There has always been a small but vocal minority of far right nutjobs in the party but now the lunatics have taken over the asylum. It started with the ERG challenging Cameron, then the successful Boris Johnson fronted coup against Teresa May, sabotage of the Brexit deal and expulsion of 21 traditional One Nation Conservative MP’s. Like the Republican Party in the states they are corrupted by dark money and no longer pursue Conservative policies. They are now a far right populist party, Conservative in name only.
Winston must be spinning in his grave. [Post edited 12 Jul 2022 15:52]
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What about the Far left nutters who have hijacked the the Labour party? We can all see the problem with British politics...no matter which way we are inclined. Ex Labour, and now ex Tory as well. Running out of options methinks 🤔 | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 04:52 - Jul 13 with 1540 views | Damo1962 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 16:50 - Jul 12 by kensalriser |
Privilege and status usually trump colour.
Those who get shat on the most are working class minorities. |
All working class get shat on. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 04:53 - Jul 13 with 1539 views | Damo1962 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 17:02 - Jul 12 by WatfordR |
Think you've got it spot on there, the only thing that appears to matter to the Tories is winning GEs. It doesn't appear to matter to them if they preside over the decimation of the country.
Unfortunately, i think you'd be pushed to find a party to vote for if putting the country first is what you're looking for. |
Is the correct answer. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 05:23 - Jul 13 with 1530 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 04:41 - Jul 13 by Damo1962 |
She'll get my vote then. I never really noticed just how left-wing most QPR supporters are. Well done to Sheffield for standing up for a different take on this post. |
I'd say its at least even and the right certainly are not under represented among our online support. There's plenty of brexit fanatics who love posting about grooming gangs, armed forces, poppies, flags, Jimmy Saville, immigration etc, etc, and of course the ubiquitous five year old Diane Abbott memes, regardless of whether those subjects are relevant at the time or not. They have certainly mastered copy and paste.
Your more decent Tory voters (yes there are some - have good friends that always voted tory although some currently don't for obvious reasons), rather than the raging flag obsessed racists might be quieter given the current embarrassing state of their party.
As for Johnson, he's not only obviously incompetent but is openly happy to repeatedly lie, cheat and break laws and long standing parliamentary and other rules in order to further his own ambitions. The bloke is a complete fraud and I ask you would you give a person you know had those traits any job on your home, car, medical needs etc? I can't imagine you would (unless you are a complete idiot) therefore why would you want him running the country?
I'll never be a Tory, as I do not agree with what they fundamentally stand for. There have however been half decent Tory governments in the past. The current one is an utter embarrassment to the UK and hopefully a new leader might start to improve things because right now they are at rock bottom.
Voting Tory or having right leaning (not the mental, race obsessed stuff you see online) views I can accept. Support for Johnson however , after everything he's done (and not done that he should have) is unforgiveable and only the domain of the truly afflicted. [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 5:55]
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 06:12 - Jul 13 with 1487 views | CamberleyR |
I never thought I'd ever be posting something by Peter Oborne but this is worth a watch. It's eight minutes long but worth sticking with.
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 06:38 - Jul 13 with 1442 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 22:23 - Jul 12 by dmm |
Most other countries use some form of proportional representation in their elections and are quite able to form and run their governments. The UK is among the few still using the outdated FPTP system but it will one day change. |
I note the Tories are using PR to elect the new leader! |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 06:56 - Jul 13 with 1421 views | dmm |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 06:12 - Jul 13 by CamberleyR |
I never thought I'd ever be posting something by Peter Oborne but this is worth a watch. It's eight minutes long but worth sticking with.
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Many of my political beliefs are very different from Oborne's but I've been impressed with how he's taken an independent stand on a number of issues over the years, most recently on Johnson and his Govt.
Oborne's careful litany of Johnson's shameful dishonesty is utterly damning - https://boris-johnson-lies.com/ |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 07:25 - Jul 13 with 1373 views | distortR |
Ah, it's so good to see that in terms of micro and macro politics that we continue to take our lead from that toxic country across the Atlantic.
The divisiveness, name calling, stereotyping (If you have worries over immigration one way you are 'racist' and the other way you are "woke" etc etc), it all seems engineered to stop debate and, god forbid, dialectic. I do wonder how much our brains are being moulded by the electronic nipples we suck on incessantly like adult babies.
On the whole, I still take the opinion that most people are basically decent, labour or tory (Sorry Hunter, including those fanatical lib dems would be a step too far  )
My politics? I couldn't be defined by any of the parties, ideally I'd like to pick and choose policies from all of them/none of them. Maybe that comes a bit more into play with proportional representation?
Anyway, increase the peace  [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 7:26]
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 07:31 - Jul 13 with 1345 views | essextaxiboy |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 05:23 - Jul 13 by SydneyRs |
I'd say its at least even and the right certainly are not under represented among our online support. There's plenty of brexit fanatics who love posting about grooming gangs, armed forces, poppies, flags, Jimmy Saville, immigration etc, etc, and of course the ubiquitous five year old Diane Abbott memes, regardless of whether those subjects are relevant at the time or not. They have certainly mastered copy and paste.
Your more decent Tory voters (yes there are some - have good friends that always voted tory although some currently don't for obvious reasons), rather than the raging flag obsessed racists might be quieter given the current embarrassing state of their party.
As for Johnson, he's not only obviously incompetent but is openly happy to repeatedly lie, cheat and break laws and long standing parliamentary and other rules in order to further his own ambitions. The bloke is a complete fraud and I ask you would you give a person you know had those traits any job on your home, car, medical needs etc? I can't imagine you would (unless you are a complete idiot) therefore why would you want him running the country?
I'll never be a Tory, as I do not agree with what they fundamentally stand for. There have however been half decent Tory governments in the past. The current one is an utter embarrassment to the UK and hopefully a new leader might start to improve things because right now they are at rock bottom.
Voting Tory or having right leaning (not the mental, race obsessed stuff you see online) views I can accept. Support for Johnson however , after everything he's done (and not done that he should have) is unforgiveable and only the domain of the truly afflicted. [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 5:55]
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I cant lrt that first paragraph go unchallenged.although I dont have much time
i vote conservative , I voted for brexit . I am not a fanatic . .
Groomihg gangs ...a no no on here but assume that you are ok with them if condemning them is to be a tory.
Armed forces , poppies flags , othrr people die to give us the freedoms we are using right now .I am sure its not only torys who want to say thanks.
Saville ... who knew that only torys watch BBC.
Off to golf ... |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 07:38 - Jul 13 with 1327 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 07:31 - Jul 13 by essextaxiboy |
I cant lrt that first paragraph go unchallenged.although I dont have much time
i vote conservative , I voted for brexit . I am not a fanatic . .
Groomihg gangs ...a no no on here but assume that you are ok with them if condemning them is to be a tory.
Armed forces , poppies flags , othrr people die to give us the freedoms we are using right now .I am sure its not only torys who want to say thanks.
Saville ... who knew that only torys watch BBC.
Off to golf ... |
Missed my point entirely on the grooming gang comment. It's that certain people bring that up all the time when it isn't relevant to the discussion. Saying that isn't the same as approving of it, settle down. Same with the other subjects listed, always being brought up when not relevant and some people are seemingly obsessed with these topics.
I also didn't say everyone who votes Tory is a brexit fanatic, but there are quite a lot of those among our online support. Maybe moreso on Facebook/Twitter than here. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 07:53 - Jul 13 with 1287 views | Harbour |
The country is in the biggest mess in years the collapse of public services you can’t get a Passport driving licence driving test hospital appointment get on a flight …3rd runway at Heathrow forget that.Inflation at 10% the poor buggers in flats with cladding forgotten. And you can’t blame that all on covid Ukraine brexit. We need serious politicians to sort the country out not the 8 standing to replace the failed comic who nearly all propped him up. The daily embarrassing site of ministers on tv who do not know their brief. Not sure what the answer is maybe time for PR to end the one party state that has failed over the last 12 years. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 08:02 - Jul 13 with 1269 views | essextaxiboy |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 07:38 - Jul 13 by SydneyRs |
Missed my point entirely on the grooming gang comment. It's that certain people bring that up all the time when it isn't relevant to the discussion. Saying that isn't the same as approving of it, settle down. Same with the other subjects listed, always being brought up when not relevant and some people are seemingly obsessed with these topics.
I also didn't say everyone who votes Tory is a brexit fanatic, but there are quite a lot of those among our online support. Maybe moreso on Facebook/Twitter than here. |
We can agree on your last line , I came off Twitter in Mar 2020 , never going back in its present format.
Never ever been on Facebook , it is the fertilizer for bigotry and the playground of the embittered (made that up meself ! ) | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 08:39 - Jul 13 with 1192 views | stevec |
Just had a look at the final eight.
Half are women and half are non white and I’d say half a chance also that one of them will be PM. Fair play to the Tories for this, but where’s Labour on black or women PM’s?
Seems to me Labour do a lot of talk but not much walk. Perhaps if you are black and Labour you are only wheeled out in front of the media when it suits. It’s a strange one. |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 09:08 - Jul 13 with 1159 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 21:20 - Jul 12 by Hunterhoop |
Fully agree.
Not that I plan to ever vote for the party, but just read the beeb’s summary of the candidates current tax stances, and Truss and Mourdant come across like idiots or intending to screw over the poorest disproportionately to the rich. Tbh, whilst I think he is a died in the wool Tory capitalist, Sunak might actually be the safest choice in the short term.
It is a simple fact of capitalism. The poorest depend on the state the more than the rich. If you cut taxes you reduce the state support and services - you can only make the civil service and state service sector so efficient. So anyone going hard on tax cuts is playing to their base and will make life harder for the poorest income deciles. Targeted tax cuts for the poorest would make sense, but no one is proposing that, obviously.
I can kind of see what Hunt is trying to achieve but we don’t have mass unemployment (quite the contrary) so if business flocks here and invests…will it really benefit the man on the street. All the big players cook the books anyway. It might help the SMEs and create some growth.
But the absolute focus must be tackling inflation. The macro economic climate is brutal but we’re worse impacted than the rest of Europe. You have to get inflation under control; it’s one of the hardest tricks in politics, without losing power/support and making life very tough in the short term.
Sunak appears to be the only one recognising the dangers of inflation.
Some of the rest are scary. |
He is clearly worried about inflation due to his not factoring it in for all the Bank of England loans which will cost the taxpayer an estimated £4.3bn at current rates of inflation.
It is difficult to believe that any of the candidates ever attended a university to study law/ politics/ economics etc. when their litanies of errors and gaffes have the spotlight shone on them. I'd trust some of the forum members on here to run the country in a better manner than those that we currently have.
Our choices appear to be; choose a government run by Russian puppets or an opposition lead by Israeli puppets. There is no Conservative or Labour party any more, they are just tools of their operators. IMO |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 10:06 - Jul 13 with 1100 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 08:39 - Jul 13 by stevec |
Just had a look at the final eight.
Half are women and half are non white and I’d say half a chance also that one of them will be PM. Fair play to the Tories for this, but where’s Labour on black or women PM’s?
Seems to me Labour do a lot of talk but not much walk. Perhaps if you are black and Labour you are only wheeled out in front of the media when it suits. It’s a strange one. |
Can’s say I disagree with about Labour not walking the walk.
At the moment the party apparatus is forcing out a Hijabi MP by propagating racially tinged smears after she won a court case against her abusive ex husband his which isn’t well known.
Bearing in mind the treatment you in particular gave Diane Abbott (first black female MP, and Cambridge graduate) over a TV gaffe, I don’t think Labour should be taking any lectures from you. [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 10:11]
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 10:09 - Jul 13 with 1093 views | SydneyRs |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 10:06 - Jul 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Can’s say I disagree with about Labour not walking the walk.
At the moment the party apparatus is forcing out a Hijabi MP by propagating racially tinged smears after she won a court case against her abusive ex husband his which isn’t well known.
Bearing in mind the treatment you in particular gave Diane Abbott (first black female MP, and Cambridge graduate) over a TV gaffe, I don’t think Labour should be taking any lectures from you. [Post edited 13 Jul 2022 10:11]
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This. People still posting memes about it five years later. | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 10:10 - Jul 13 with 1088 views | robith |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 08:39 - Jul 13 by stevec |
Just had a look at the final eight.
Half are women and half are non white and I’d say half a chance also that one of them will be PM. Fair play to the Tories for this, but where’s Labour on black or women PM’s?
Seems to me Labour do a lot of talk but not much walk. Perhaps if you are black and Labour you are only wheeled out in front of the media when it suits. It’s a strange one. |
This is an interesting piece on that from Stephen Bush
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2020/09/why-the-first-black-british-prime-
The writer Jason Okundaye also made a follow up to this I can't find now that in essence said as The Tory party represents the status quo and the established thinking, POC in its ranks represent no threat to the established order. Where as a Black or Asian Labour leader talking anti racism and redistribution would be obliterated by the media and perceived by voters as dangerous - just look at the endless hate currently directed and black and Asian minor Labour MPs currently |  | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 10:14 - Jul 13 with 1072 views | joe90 |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 08:39 - Jul 13 by stevec |
Just had a look at the final eight.
Half are women and half are non white and I’d say half a chance also that one of them will be PM. Fair play to the Tories for this, but where’s Labour on black or women PM’s?
Seems to me Labour do a lot of talk but not much walk. Perhaps if you are black and Labour you are only wheeled out in front of the media when it suits. It’s a strange one. |
This is interesting reading...
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-party-black-racism-keir-starmer-b180
It's been mentioned on this thread already, but Labour and their supporters certainly have a blind spot when it comes to their own prejudices. You see it in Trade Unions as well.
[Post edited 13 Jul 2022 11:31]
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| Bye bye bye Johnson on 10:31 - Jul 13 with 1018 views | terryb |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 04:49 - Jul 13 by Damo1962 |
What about the Far left nutters who have hijacked the the Labour party? We can all see the problem with British politics...no matter which way we are inclined. Ex Labour, and now ex Tory as well. Running out of options methinks 🤔 |
It really is quite surprising how far to the right that the Conservative & Labour parties have moved since the election of Thatcher in 1979. The Heath government was more centrally postitioned & to the left of the Blair/Brown administration & of Starmer.
I only know one member of the Labour party personally. She understood that Corbyn would not win a general election, but couldn't bring herself to vote for a Labour leader that didn't have traditional ideals. Like many a party member, she preferred to be in opposition rather than betray their beliefs.
I come from a Tory family (on my mothers side), but even they voted against Johnson in the by-election of last year. As for myself, my views changed from socialism to being a diehard Liberal when the tanks rolled into Prague in 1968.
How I yearn for a return to the Wilson/Heath battles where a change in Parliament didn't change all of the policies that had been put in place. Mind you, we can do without all the industrial strife of that period! | | | |
| Bye bye bye Johnson on 10:34 - Jul 13 with 1913 views | Juzzie |
Out of interest, can anyone bullet point what would be considered Labour 'true/core values' and what would be the same for the Conservatives.
As has been covered on here many times, if you're ever so slightly left or right of centre you're a raging commie or fascist respectively. For example, people mention the word 'socialist' as though it's some extreme left wing principle when in fact it's fairly centre I believe and things like the NHS, free milk at school, state schools etc are good examples of socialism and I guess we are all happy with those.
Then you have the additions of both parties seemingly moving further to their extremes.
I'd genuinely like to know what are considered those core values, maybe in some hope they may come back. |  | | |
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