| Can someone explain this ref? 18:06 - Apr 2 with 14522 views | Antti_Heinola |
2 mins in Mitro doesnt get a corner. Judging by his reaction, he should have, but there followed a prolonged, loud verbal abuse of the ref, far beyond the importance of the decision. No booking.
Wallace blocked off, no fk, conplains, is not only booked, but ref gives a fk to Fulham? Never seen that. What on earth could Mitro have said that *wasnt* worth a yellow? |  |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 12:35 - Apr 6 with 1707 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:26 - Apr 5 by stevenagehoop |
Funny enough when I was on my referees course the point made was that whatever was allowed at the higher levels would influence how grass root officials would be treated and that was why the elite referees actions were particularly relevant to your second reason and probably like your association we had plenty of guest speakers all singing from the same hymn sheet about how dissent should be handled.
My point wasn’t about the game being the same at every level, I don’t think anyone expects that but being called a c**t or worse should be enforced the same no matter what level you officiated at
With regard to the first point we see week in week out that they are influenced by the actions of protesting players even without dissent being involved. |
Thanks for the views, its been a good debate. Here's another example, that even I'm not sure I agree with, but was interesting to hear what a senior ref coach/assessor thinks. Its not QPR related at all, so that helps!
Tier 6 mens open age.
Feisty game, several yellows, one red (for 2 yellows). Into stoppage time attacker (on a yellow) goes down in penalty area - appeals for pen. Referee stops play, cautions player for simulation and sends him off as its his 2nd yellow.
On this Podcast I heard the observer said it was totally wrong. All about ruining the referee's profile and it being the thing everyone there would remember the referee for. No need for the caution, deny the pen, blow for full time a few minutes later.
Thoughts on that view? |  | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 13:00 - Apr 6 with 1659 views | terryb |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 12:35 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Thanks for the views, its been a good debate. Here's another example, that even I'm not sure I agree with, but was interesting to hear what a senior ref coach/assessor thinks. Its not QPR related at all, so that helps!
Tier 6 mens open age.
Feisty game, several yellows, one red (for 2 yellows). Into stoppage time attacker (on a yellow) goes down in penalty area - appeals for pen. Referee stops play, cautions player for simulation and sends him off as its his 2nd yellow.
On this Podcast I heard the observer said it was totally wrong. All about ruining the referee's profile and it being the thing everyone there would remember the referee for. No need for the caution, deny the pen, blow for full time a few minutes later.
Thoughts on that view? |
Sensible.
You don't give cautions every time that the laws state that you should, so save yourself the arguments that this caution & sending off will bring for you.
Full time whistle as quickly as possible. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:53 - Apr 6 with 1590 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 12:35 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Thanks for the views, its been a good debate. Here's another example, that even I'm not sure I agree with, but was interesting to hear what a senior ref coach/assessor thinks. Its not QPR related at all, so that helps!
Tier 6 mens open age.
Feisty game, several yellows, one red (for 2 yellows). Into stoppage time attacker (on a yellow) goes down in penalty area - appeals for pen. Referee stops play, cautions player for simulation and sends him off as its his 2nd yellow.
On this Podcast I heard the observer said it was totally wrong. All about ruining the referee's profile and it being the thing everyone there would remember the referee for. No need for the caution, deny the pen, blow for full time a few minutes later.
Thoughts on that view? |
Interesting one an important factor to me would be the score at the time and how long left in the game.
If the game was all but over and one team winning easily would seem to me time for a not so quiet word in the ear and finish the game as soon as able. Teams have seen you’ve seen it and dealt with it and game has not been influenced by your decision.
If the game is close would probably do the same unless the player had been spoken too about a similar incident. [Post edited 6 Apr 2022 16:05]
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| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:56 - Apr 6 with 1583 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:53 - Apr 6 by stevenagehoop |
Interesting one an important factor to me would be the score at the time and how long left in the game.
If the game was all but over and one team winning easily would seem to me time for a not so quiet word in the ear and finish the game as soon as able. Teams have seen you’ve seen it and dealt with it and game has not been influenced by your decision.
If the game is close would probably do the same unless the player had been spoken too about a similar incident. [Post edited 6 Apr 2022 16:05]
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Interesting though isn't it?
I do think it backs up my assertion that it can never be as simple as just "Apply the law" | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:09 - Apr 6 with 1536 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 15:56 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Interesting though isn't it?
I do think it backs up my assertion that it can never be as simple as just "Apply the law" |
I don’t think any referee at any level applies the law 100 percent of the time - the good refs use common sense as well and from my experience the players respected you more for that and unless you really do make a howler so do the experienced assessors. | |
| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:16 - Apr 6 with 1502 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:09 - Apr 6 by stevenagehoop |
I don’t think any referee at any level applies the law 100 percent of the time - the good refs use common sense as well and from my experience the players respected you more for that and unless you really do make a howler so do the experienced assessors. |
Exactly my point, so I guess we're back to, is it 'sensible' to show Mitrovic a card after 3 mins for dissent? | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:21 - Apr 6 with 1485 views | QPR_John |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:16 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Exactly my point, so I guess we're back to, is it 'sensible' to show Mitrovic a card after 3 mins for dissent? |
Then you have to ask yourself at what time does it become sensible to show a card for dissent. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:35 - Apr 6 with 1456 views | OldPedro |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:16 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Exactly my point, so I guess we're back to, is it 'sensible' to show Mitrovic a card after 3 mins for dissent? |
Yes - when the dissent is as abusive as Mitrovic was, then I think a ref should show a card whether it's the 1st minute of the last |  |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:38 - Apr 6 with 1455 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:16 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Exactly my point, so I guess we're back to, is it 'sensible' to show Mitrovic a card after 3 mins for dissent? |
All about the severity of each incident for me - if it’s bad enough whether it’s first minute or last if it’s a sending off - then they go - and in line with what I’ve said above certain breaches at certain times can be dealt with by a common sense approach if it’s a question of 1+1 =2 which would result in a sending off. Who’d be a referee 😜 | |
| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:47 - Apr 6 with 1426 views | stowmarketrange |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:09 - Apr 6 by stevenagehoop |
I don’t think any referee at any level applies the law 100 percent of the time - the good refs use common sense as well and from my experience the players respected you more for that and unless you really do make a howler so do the experienced assessors. |
It’s the refs using common sense that leads to inconsistency that we have to suffer,and that leads to the players pushing the boundaries every time.
Why not try and referee to the letter of the law for a while until the players realise that they can’t get away with cheating quite so easily?If teams start losing players to red cards because of it,it will be the players fault,not the refs. |  | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:10 - Apr 6 with 1408 views | terryb |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:47 - Apr 6 by stowmarketrange |
It’s the refs using common sense that leads to inconsistency that we have to suffer,and that leads to the players pushing the boundaries every time.
Why not try and referee to the letter of the law for a while until the players realise that they can’t get away with cheating quite so easily?If teams start losing players to red cards because of it,it will be the players fault,not the refs. |
If you did that, the whistle will be sounding every few seconds.
Most tackles/challenges have a little contact & could be regarded as fouls. It will also take ages for a throw in to be taken, as the vast majority are foul throws. Also they would have to be taken from the correct position, as would free kicks.
As a referee I informed (in a very loud voice) everyone that I was going to give every infringment as a free kick as I fed up with the moaning of the players & managers. They were soon begging for me to stop doing this.
I think that the inconsistency doesn't come from officials using common sense, but from two individuals having a different oppinion as to what constitutes an offence. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:12 - Apr 6 with 1394 views | OldPedro |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:10 - Apr 6 by terryb |
If you did that, the whistle will be sounding every few seconds.
Most tackles/challenges have a little contact & could be regarded as fouls. It will also take ages for a throw in to be taken, as the vast majority are foul throws. Also they would have to be taken from the correct position, as would free kicks.
As a referee I informed (in a very loud voice) everyone that I was going to give every infringment as a free kick as I fed up with the moaning of the players & managers. They were soon begging for me to stop doing this.
I think that the inconsistency doesn't come from officials using common sense, but from two individuals having a different oppinion as to what constitutes an offence. |
"I think that the inconsistency doesn't come from officials using common sense, but from two individuals having a different oppinion as to what constitutes an offence. "
Or often, when the same official has a different opinion on two identical incidents in the same game  | |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:14 - Apr 6 with 1387 views | SK_hoops |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:16 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Exactly my point, so I guess we're back to, is it 'sensible' to show Mitrovic a card after 3 mins for dissent? |
Of course it is for that level of dissent, to think otherwise us laughable. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:22 - Apr 6 with 1373 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:14 - Apr 6 by SK_hoops |
Of course it is for that level of dissent, to think otherwise us laughable. |
Fair enough, entitled to your opinion, but as I said above, you're not ever going to see it happen in this league. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:27 - Apr 6 with 1365 views | stowmarketrange |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:10 - Apr 6 by terryb |
If you did that, the whistle will be sounding every few seconds.
Most tackles/challenges have a little contact & could be regarded as fouls. It will also take ages for a throw in to be taken, as the vast majority are foul throws. Also they would have to be taken from the correct position, as would free kicks.
As a referee I informed (in a very loud voice) everyone that I was going to give every infringment as a free kick as I fed up with the moaning of the players & managers. They were soon begging for me to stop doing this.
I think that the inconsistency doesn't come from officials using common sense, but from two individuals having a different oppinion as to what constitutes an offence. |
Maybe the players should’ve cleaned up their act rather than begging you to stop?The same ref can be inconsistent sometimes too,let alone different refs.I’m just sick of seeing players cheat their way to victory,and something drastic has to happen or it will only get worse. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:41 - Apr 6 with 1350 views | stevenagehoop |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:47 - Apr 6 by stowmarketrange |
It’s the refs using common sense that leads to inconsistency that we have to suffer,and that leads to the players pushing the boundaries every time.
Why not try and referee to the letter of the law for a while until the players realise that they can’t get away with cheating quite so easily?If teams start losing players to red cards because of it,it will be the players fault,not the refs. |
It’s not common sense that’s the issue - it’s inconsistency as you’ve said . If you’re consistent with what you whisper in someone’s ear and over what you caution for in the same game there is not a problem - it is when you give something one minute and ignore it the next where players don’t know the red line not to cross.
It’s about the game being managed correctly not the number of cautions you issue. | |
| I never lie but I don't always tell the truth |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 18:01 - Apr 6 with 1314 views | Juzzie |
As I think what was alluded earlier is what happens in the PL trickles down.
My son (7) is already very much into his football and has been playing with a local club for quite a few months now (he refused to be photographed with the Brentford mascot who visited the club on Sunday, top boy!) .
They copy what they see on youtube etc and yes, it will get to the point where he starts copying what he see's on MoTD etc so it's vital the refs at the top are consistent.
Refs became professional years ago for this reason (rather than being bankers, insurance brokers etc who then reffed Div 1 games) and yes, Mitro should have been booked, 1st minute or last.
As someone also said, it happened at the rugby a few weeks ago with a player being sent off after just a few minutes.
[Post edited 6 Apr 2022 18:02]
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 10:45 - Apr 8 with 1114 views | francisbowles |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 12:35 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Thanks for the views, its been a good debate. Here's another example, that even I'm not sure I agree with, but was interesting to hear what a senior ref coach/assessor thinks. Its not QPR related at all, so that helps!
Tier 6 mens open age.
Feisty game, several yellows, one red (for 2 yellows). Into stoppage time attacker (on a yellow) goes down in penalty area - appeals for pen. Referee stops play, cautions player for simulation and sends him off as its his 2nd yellow.
On this Podcast I heard the observer said it was totally wrong. All about ruining the referee's profile and it being the thing everyone there would remember the referee for. No need for the caution, deny the pen, blow for full time a few minutes later.
Thoughts on that view? |
Referee's profile?
If there is no doubt about the dive then the player should be cautioned full stop.
If there is an element of doubt then no pen and play on. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 14:23 - Apr 8 with 1024 views | PinnerPaul |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 10:45 - Apr 8 by francisbowles |
Referee's profile?
If there is no doubt about the dive then the player should be cautioned full stop.
If there is an element of doubt then no pen and play on. |
If only life/football was so simple
Not many penalty shouts/dive shouts where there is 'no doubt' 
In this example how would majority of the crowd 'know'?
That, I think, is the point the observer is making - no one KNOWS its a dive, so no need to dismiss the player in the 91st minute. | | | |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 16:20 - Apr 8 with 947 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 17:22 - Apr 6 by PinnerPaul |
Fair enough, entitled to your opinion, but as I said above, you're not ever going to see it happen in this league. |
Not really sure why. Genuinely, I couldn't believe he wasn't booked - it was loud, it was aggressive, it was intimidating and it went on for a very, very long time. Longer, and more aggressively, than our appeals against a terrible penalty decision. It was absolutely targeted at intimidation of the official - and, sadly, it worked. | |
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| Can someone explain this ref? on 11:06 - Apr 9 with 811 views | francisbowles |
| Can someone explain this ref? on 14:23 - Apr 8 by PinnerPaul |
If only life/football was so simple
Not many penalty shouts/dive shouts where there is 'no doubt'
In this example how would majority of the crowd 'know'?
That, I think, is the point the observer is making - no one KNOWS its a dive, so no need to dismiss the player in the 91st minute. |
Agree it is very hard to be certain a player has dived. Therefore if you are certain, you must caution.
I may not fit the current profile but I don't think the crowd knowing is relevant. Officials or their bosses don't explain decisions, so there is plenty the crowd don't know or understand. | | | |
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