| Sign it... on 11:12 - Mar 24 with 2126 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Sign it... on 08:32 - Mar 24 by FalingeParka |
Nice one D_Alien. On your glibness, aloof charm and facetiousness we can truly depend. |
I know it’s a globalised world its one I’ve travelled all over I don’t reckon we need to be part of project europa to experience Europe’s climes and cultures. I don’t look at the EU with any scorn or have any hatred for the foreigner ( two Irish grandparents, a French sister in law, and a Jewish great aunt from Russia whose father remembered the pograms) I just think no thanks.
I’m worried about Brexit I would be telling lies if I wasn’t I work in an industry that is the first hit and the last to recover from recession but even after Brexit there is still growth expected within the industry. I’ve also got a new house last year and my fixed term mortgage will need a renewal and I understand the rates will go up as a result of Brexit. But let’s not pretend being in the EU guards you from recession travelling to places like Ireland and Greece tell me that isn’t the case. |  | |  |
| Sign it... on 11:13 - Mar 24 with 2125 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 08:55 - Mar 24 by FalingeParka |
But you are reasonable value I must admit. A jay amongst the pigeons.
So, I'll play if you will.
To my mind, the EU 'superstructure', the political institutions, Strasbourg and Brussels, so vexing to die hard Brexiters and the Daily Mail, the key pressing into the elbow joint, the sovereignty thing, is in fact the bare minimum of sound and noise you might expect from running a single market of 100s of millions across near thirty nations. Hardly a superstate in the making is it? |
Everything that can possibly be said - facts*, counter-facts, opinions, bilge, distortions, forecasts, hearsay, emoting - has already been said ad nauseam during the past three years
To what end do people think posting variations on the above on a football messageboard is going to make the minutest difference to anything? I'm all for debate, but quite frankly, it's all been done. And at the end of all that, it really does come down to a visceral reaction - that old gut feeling - as to what variation of the unknowable truth you choose to believe in
All that erm... remains, is for us to leave, by whatever means the showers-that-be can concoct
* honourable exception - roccy's fabled audited accounts |  |
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| Sign it... on 11:25 - Mar 24 with 2089 views | steofthedale |
Democracy is the worst form of Government apart from all those other forms.......
Given the inherent unaccountability of the EU and its undemocratic nature, perhaps it is no surprise that those who strongly advocate it's merits have such cavalier disregard for a referendum result with which they disagree.
As Mrs May ponders her future; as Mr Corbyn dreams of a change in government; as constituency MPs balance their own beliefs and ambitions against those of their local associations......
......Tusk, Barnier and their ilk remain secure and untouchable in their appointed sinecures within European ivory towers. |  |
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| Sign it... on 12:30 - Mar 24 with 2011 views | tony_roch975 |
| Sign it... on 11:25 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
Democracy is the worst form of Government apart from all those other forms.......
Given the inherent unaccountability of the EU and its undemocratic nature, perhaps it is no surprise that those who strongly advocate it's merits have such cavalier disregard for a referendum result with which they disagree.
As Mrs May ponders her future; as Mr Corbyn dreams of a change in government; as constituency MPs balance their own beliefs and ambitions against those of their local associations......
......Tusk, Barnier and their ilk remain secure and untouchable in their appointed sinecures within European ivory towers. |
Yes the Commission is un-elected (as is our Civil Service, House of Lords and Head of State) but the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers are elected. Also European Parliament elections ensure smaller Parties like UKIP & Greens get better representation than in our First Past the Post system - on balance looks to me like they're slightly more democratic! However, there is no doubt that many UK voters feel even less political connection with the EEC than with our Parliament - seems to be more about geographical or cultural distance than democracy. | |
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| Sign it... on 12:34 - Mar 24 with 2008 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 11:25 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
Democracy is the worst form of Government apart from all those other forms.......
Given the inherent unaccountability of the EU and its undemocratic nature, perhaps it is no surprise that those who strongly advocate it's merits have such cavalier disregard for a referendum result with which they disagree.
As Mrs May ponders her future; as Mr Corbyn dreams of a change in government; as constituency MPs balance their own beliefs and ambitions against those of their local associations......
......Tusk, Barnier and their ilk remain secure and untouchable in their appointed sinecures within European ivory towers. |
...as the democratically elected heads of the EU 27 states decided what to do on Thursday...
But don't let that get in the way. |  |
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| Sign it... on 12:40 - Mar 24 with 2000 views | steofthedale |
I am intrigued that so many elected officials for whom the British cast no votes can so easily determine the business of the UK parliament.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2019 12:59]
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| Sign it... on 12:46 - Mar 24 with 1984 views | 49thseason |
Taken from John Redwoods Diary June 16 2016:
"When the UK joined the EU we had a 45 million tonnes a year steel industry. Today we are battling to save an 11 million tonnes industry.
When we joined the EU we had a 400,000 tonnes a year aluminium industry. Today we have just 43,000 tonnes of capacity left.
When we joined the EU we had 20 million tonnes of cement capacity. Today we have 12 million tonnes.
Just before we joined the EEC in 1971 we had a 1 million tonnes a year fishing industry. Today we have 600,000 tonnes.
The October 2013 government “Future of Manufacturing” Report shows that between 1951 and 1973 metals output rose 3% a year. Since joining the EEC/EU it has declined by more than 6%
Between 1951 and 1973 food and drink output rose by 5.6% per year. Since joining the EEC/EU it has fallen by 1% a year.
Between 1951 and 1973 textiles output expanded at 2.6% a year. Since joining the EEC/EU it has fallen by more than 6% a year.
Whilst it may not be fair to blame all this decline on membership of the EU, as there are other factors, it nonetheless shows categorically that joining the EU and helping create the so-called single market has not helped us grow and has not saved many of our industries from decline.
In some cases EU policies are the main driver of the disaster. The Common Fishing Policy is clearly the main reason for the dreadful decline of our fishing industry, as many foreign vessels were licenced to take our fish. Our energy intensive businesses were often damaged by the high energy prices required by the EU common energy policy.
The EU has prevented UK subsidy of industry under its state aids rules, but has often provided subsidised loans and grants to businesses to set up elsewhere in the EU. The UK has seen a spate of factory closures balanced by new and expanded facilities in poorer EU countries. The UK lost van production to Turkey, car capacity to Slovakia, chocolate to Poland, domestic appliances to the Netherlands and the Czech Republic and metal containers to Poland amongst others in recent years. In various cases there was an EU grant or loan involved in the new capacity.
Looking at our huge balance of payments deficit today in goods with the rest of the EU, we can see the long term impact of the EU’s damage to our manufacturing capacity.
Taken from John Redwoods Diary November 2018:
I have been sent an extract from official figures to remind me that our trade with the rest of the world, largely conducted under WTO rules with no special Agreements or FTAs, has been growing far faster than trade to the EU. Since 1998 our exports of goods to the EU have grown at just 0.2% a year, whereas our goods export to non-EU has grown sixteen times faster at 3.3%. Our services exports have also grown faster to non-EU than to EU. Last year we ran an overall deficit of £72 billion with the EU, but a surplus of £42 bn with the rest of the world.
If this single market and customs union is such a great boon to us, how come our goods trade has scarcely grown with it for almost twenty years? And if trading under WTO rules is difficult, how come our non-EU trade is bigger than our EU trade and growing much faster?
It isn’t worth paying £39bn to stay in this customs union. |  | | |
| Sign it... on 12:47 - Mar 24 with 1984 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 12:40 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
I am intrigued that so many elected officials for whom the British cast no votes can so easily determine the business of the UK parliament.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2019 12:59]
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http://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/powers-and-procedures/legislat
You have quite a bit to read as it's not quite as concise as a Tommy Robinson/UKIP facebook post. Plus it's taken from the EU's website so probably evil Tusk and dastardly Junker wrote it. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 12:48]
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| Sign it... on 12:52 - Mar 24 with 1979 views | FalingeParka |
| Sign it... on 11:13 - Mar 24 by D_Alien |
Everything that can possibly be said - facts*, counter-facts, opinions, bilge, distortions, forecasts, hearsay, emoting - has already been said ad nauseam during the past three years
To what end do people think posting variations on the above on a football messageboard is going to make the minutest difference to anything? I'm all for debate, but quite frankly, it's all been done. And at the end of all that, it really does come down to a visceral reaction - that old gut feeling - as to what variation of the unknowable truth you choose to believe in
All that erm... remains, is for us to leave, by whatever means the showers-that-be can concoct
* honourable exception - roccy's fabled audited accounts |
Hope is a killer yes. I have none as to stop this madness. I truly despair. |  |
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| Sign it... on 13:08 - Mar 24 with 1952 views | steofthedale |
I was aware of this......legislation is proposed by the unelected European Commission. Those elected may be permitted to tinker a little in committee but the parliament is simply there to apply a rubber stamp.
No MEP can introduce or revoke EU law. How reassuring that they are permitted to express an opinion.
I never suggested Barnier, Junker and Tusk were evil. Just unelected and unaccountable and very well paid. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 13:11]
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| Sign it... on 13:57 - Mar 24 with 1900 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Sign it... on 11:13 - Mar 24 by D_Alien |
Everything that can possibly be said - facts*, counter-facts, opinions, bilge, distortions, forecasts, hearsay, emoting - has already been said ad nauseam during the past three years
To what end do people think posting variations on the above on a football messageboard is going to make the minutest difference to anything? I'm all for debate, but quite frankly, it's all been done. And at the end of all that, it really does come down to a visceral reaction - that old gut feeling - as to what variation of the unknowable truth you choose to believe in
All that erm... remains, is for us to leave, by whatever means the showers-that-be can concoct
* honourable exception - roccy's fabled audited accounts |
You still going on about your fooking guts? | |
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| Sign it... on 14:24 - Mar 24 with 1859 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 13:57 - Mar 24 by BigDaveMyCock |
You still going on about your fooking guts? |
It's just a continuation of the dogshit debate | |
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| Sign it... on 14:34 - Mar 24 with 1835 views | tony_roch975 |
| Sign it... on 13:08 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
I was aware of this......legislation is proposed by the unelected European Commission. Those elected may be permitted to tinker a little in committee but the parliament is simply there to apply a rubber stamp.
No MEP can introduce or revoke EU law. How reassuring that they are permitted to express an opinion.
I never suggested Barnier, Junker and Tusk were evil. Just unelected and unaccountable and very well paid. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 13:11]
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Couldn't the same criticism be made of our system - backbench MPs normally can't introduce legislation and when they do make a decision, as recently, the Government can ignore them. All 'democratic' systems have anomalies. Our Head of State is the most "unelected and unaccountable and very well paid" of the lot. There are many good arguments for Brexit but being less accountable than us isn't one of them. | |
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| Sign it... on 15:06 - Mar 24 with 1813 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 12:30 - Mar 24 by tony_roch975 |
Yes the Commission is un-elected (as is our Civil Service, House of Lords and Head of State) but the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers are elected. Also European Parliament elections ensure smaller Parties like UKIP & Greens get better representation than in our First Past the Post system - on balance looks to me like they're slightly more democratic! However, there is no doubt that many UK voters feel even less political connection with the EEC than with our Parliament - seems to be more about geographical or cultural distance than democracy. |
Maybe it's because we can't see where the money has gone. Is it to much to ask? Why the secrecy? What is it they don't want us to know? |  | | |
| Sign it... on 15:29 - Mar 24 with 1794 views | steofthedale |
| Sign it... on 14:34 - Mar 24 by tony_roch975 |
Couldn't the same criticism be made of our system - backbench MPs normally can't introduce legislation and when they do make a decision, as recently, the Government can ignore them. All 'democratic' systems have anomalies. Our Head of State is the most "unelected and unaccountable and very well paid" of the lot. There are many good arguments for Brexit but being less accountable than us isn't one of them. |
Here's the difference. Civil servants DO NOT determine the legislative agenda in the UK.
Parties produce a manifesto describing their intentions should they form a majority following a general election.
Even so , there is scope for private member's bills to be included within the parliamentary session.
Tell me, whose manifesto proposed the Amsterdam, Lisbon, Nice or Maarstricht treaties? Which MEPs proposed any EU legislation to their electorate prior to them taking their European seat?
As regards heads of state, whilst unelected and well paid, the Queen DOES NOT interfere in the elected representatives' legislative agenda. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 15:51]
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| Sign it... on 15:47 - Mar 24 with 1773 views | EllGazzell |
Just a shame information about funding from the EU, where it goes, what it does and how to apply for it is not so readily available in the UK.
https://www.dotaceeu.cz/en/Evropske-fondy-v-CR
Thanks to me and my team, you can even read it in English. | |
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| Sign it... on 15:47 - Mar 24 with 1772 views | steofthedale |
And the auditors advise that for the first time in 12 years they give a "qualified" rather than "adverse" opinion with an improvement in "error" from around 4% to just over 3%.
"Payments for 2016 were legal and regular except for cost reimbursement payments"
So on a budget of €136.4 billion there are only €4.2 billion of errors......
With such levels of assurance and governance from auditors what concerns could UK tax payers possibly have when handing £13 billion (net) annually to an organisation with such a reputation? | |
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| Sign it... on 16:15 - Mar 24 with 1727 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 15:47 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
And the auditors advise that for the first time in 12 years they give a "qualified" rather than "adverse" opinion with an improvement in "error" from around 4% to just over 3%.
"Payments for 2016 were legal and regular except for cost reimbursement payments"
So on a budget of €136.4 billion there are only €4.2 billion of errors......
With such levels of assurance and governance from auditors what concerns could UK tax payers possibly have when handing £13 billion (net) annually to an organisation with such a reputation? |
FYI, errors in accounts stem from wrongly/illegally obtained or misallocation of funds.
As an example
https://www.reuters.com/article/czech-babis/update-1-eu-lawmakers-take-aim-at-cz
All funding to Agrofert has been frozen. There is a team from Brussels still on the ground here. I have to be extremely careful what to share on here, as even though it's inconsequential to you lot as your leaving on Friday, I'm professionally involved and this is after all the world wide web.
They also include duties which should have been applied.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-fraud/eu-sends-second-warning-to-u | |
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| Sign it... on 16:18 - Mar 24 with 1718 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Sign it... on 14:24 - Mar 24 by D_Alien |
It's just a continuation of the dogshit debate |
IDS - Irritable DAlien Syndrome
euph. Reactionary ill thought out nonsense usually nationalistic in derivation or from an overly inflated opinion of one’s intellectual abilities.
“Here Tony, we should bring back national service and whatever you say will not stop that assertion being right.”
“Fook me Carl you’ve a right bad dose of IDS there.” | |
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| Sign it... on 16:18 - Mar 24 with 1717 views | 49thseason |
| Sign it... on 15:29 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
Here's the difference. Civil servants DO NOT determine the legislative agenda in the UK.
Parties produce a manifesto describing their intentions should they form a majority following a general election.
Even so , there is scope for private member's bills to be included within the parliamentary session.
Tell me, whose manifesto proposed the Amsterdam, Lisbon, Nice or Maarstricht treaties? Which MEPs proposed any EU legislation to their electorate prior to them taking their European seat?
As regards heads of state, whilst unelected and well paid, the Queen DOES NOT interfere in the elected representatives' legislative agenda. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 15:51]
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I can tell you categorically that Civil Servants may not make legislation per se, but they do their best to block, delay and frustrate legislation they dont agree with politically and also frustrate and leak details of private conversations and correspondence that they are privvy to despite having signed the official secrets act
.
I know for an absolute fact that Civil Servants in the Department for Education did their level best to prevent Michael Gove from implementing his agenda when he became Minister for Education in the Coalition Government to the extent that he had to bring in external advisors and systems which were more secure than the ones he used when he first went into his office simply to prevent leaks and blatent alterations to his memo's and emails. | | | |
| Sign it... on 16:27 - Mar 24 with 1709 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 15:29 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
Here's the difference. Civil servants DO NOT determine the legislative agenda in the UK.
Parties produce a manifesto describing their intentions should they form a majority following a general election.
Even so , there is scope for private member's bills to be included within the parliamentary session.
Tell me, whose manifesto proposed the Amsterdam, Lisbon, Nice or Maarstricht treaties? Which MEPs proposed any EU legislation to their electorate prior to them taking their European seat?
As regards heads of state, whilst unelected and well paid, the Queen DOES NOT interfere in the elected representatives' legislative agenda. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 15:51]
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ROFLMFAO - you couldn't make it up.
Olly Robbins negotiating in Brussels on behalf of you lot was of inconsequence to the legislative agenda of the UK, was it? Representing UK citizens interests in negotiations with the EU - good job he was standing on his manifesto that he was elected on!!!
Regarding the Queen, you're right, she definitely doesn't interfere in elected representatives' legislative agenda...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/14/secret-papers-royals-veto-bills
oops, only 39 times then... but that's it... | |
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| Sign it... on 16:42 - Mar 24 with 1675 views | steofthedale |
| Sign it... on 16:18 - Mar 24 by 49thseason |
I can tell you categorically that Civil Servants may not make legislation per se, but they do their best to block, delay and frustrate legislation they dont agree with politically and also frustrate and leak details of private conversations and correspondence that they are privvy to despite having signed the official secrets act
.
I know for an absolute fact that Civil Servants in the Department for Education did their level best to prevent Michael Gove from implementing his agenda when he became Minister for Education in the Coalition Government to the extent that he had to bring in external advisors and systems which were more secure than the ones he used when he first went into his office simply to prevent leaks and blatent alterations to his memo's and emails. |
All the more reason not to actually give them the keys to government as per the EU model. | |
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| Sign it... on 16:46 - Mar 24 with 1666 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 16:18 - Mar 24 by BigDaveMyCock |
IDS - Irritable DAlien Syndrome
euph. Reactionary ill thought out nonsense usually nationalistic in derivation or from an overly inflated opinion of one’s intellectual abilities.
“Here Tony, we should bring back national service and whatever you say will not stop that assertion being right.”
“Fook me Carl you’ve a right bad dose of IDS there.” |
More ignorance from someone who clearly hasn't actually read what i'd posted prior to his insulting intervention
Go on, just read the posts and try and square them with what you've just posted. Or maybe just give up before you embarrass yourself any further. I sincerely hope your standards are a great deal higher at work. We need people able to scrutinise written text and interpret it correctly to be successful as a country. You're failing on the basics | |
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| Sign it... on 16:47 - Mar 24 with 1665 views | steofthedale |
| Sign it... on 16:27 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
ROFLMFAO - you couldn't make it up.
Olly Robbins negotiating in Brussels on behalf of you lot was of inconsequence to the legislative agenda of the UK, was it? Representing UK citizens interests in negotiations with the EU - good job he was standing on his manifesto that he was elected on!!!
Regarding the Queen, you're right, she definitely doesn't interfere in elected representatives' legislative agenda...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/14/secret-papers-royals-veto-bills
oops, only 39 times then... but that's it... |
And how did the agreement the Civil Servant Olly Robbins negotiated fare when presented to the elected representatives in the House? | |
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