| QPR could leave H&F on 09:07 - Feb 9 with 2100 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR could leave H&F on 08:58 - Feb 9 by PunteR |
The only side i'm on is QPR. Same as everyone else on here i just want what's best for the club.
Have we had issues with H&F in the past? Have Chelsea and Fulham?
Completely agree their tweets are ridiculous but how has it even got to public spats with the clubs owners?
Tony Fernandes seems to be the fall guy. There's other people involved here, or you'd like to think there is and its not just TF doing and saying things off his own back.
If the club release statements with pictures of a new stadium and say things like we should be in a new stadium by 2018, then how can you call it a cheap shot when in 2019 I flag up we are nowhere near it. ? in fact we're probably further than ever. |
And you can see the problems we're having, but you just want to dump it all on Fernandes. Go on, do the West Ham bit again. |  |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 09:17 - Feb 9 with 2068 views | PunteR |
| QPR could leave H&F on 09:07 - Feb 9 by isawqpratwcity |
And you can see the problems we're having, but you just want to dump it all on Fernandes. Go on, do the West Ham bit again. |
 Nah, your just trolling now.
Yes i can see the problems we're having. Re read my previous posts if you think i want to just dump it all on TF. He's a factor for sure though. |  |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 09:33 - Feb 9 with 2037 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR could leave H&F on 09:17 - Feb 9 by PunteR |
Nah, your just trolling now.
Yes i can see the problems we're having. Re read my previous posts if you think i want to just dump it all on TF. He's a factor for sure though. |
Spare me from rereading your posts, just quote me where you've said any part of us not being in a new stadium is not his fault. Give us a clue (probably best to leave West Ham out of it for now). | |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 10:15 - Feb 9 with 1962 views | PunteR |
| QPR could leave H&F on 09:33 - Feb 9 by isawqpratwcity |
Spare me from rereading your posts, just quote me where you've said any part of us not being in a new stadium is not his fault. Give us a clue (probably best to leave West Ham out of it for now). |
I'm not really sure what point your trying to make. If you don't agree with me that's fine.
If we end up on some industrial estate leasing a soulless stadium while Loftus road is sold up to recuperate the money lost over the last few years because of poor recruitment and management then maybe we can meet up over a couple of beers and have a chin wag and a laugh about that time we chatted bullsh*t to each other online thinking it actually made a difference...  | |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 10:19 - Feb 9 with 1953 views | Dorse |
The whole thing feels a bit off here. Both the club and the council seem to be answering questions that nobody asked.
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| QPR could leave H&F on 10:23 - Feb 9 with 1938 views | BostonR |
| QPR could leave H&F on 02:11 - Feb 9 by PunteR |
I was just highlighting how poorly handled the whole moving stadium thing is by TF. I was actually suckered into thinking we were going to get an improved stadium back when that image was promoted. As Clive said in his report there seems to be big pieces missing from this whole saga . The Cargiant thing was just a joke and this latest spat is just as bad. I'm not sure why you would defend TF here when clearly he's doing something fundamentally wrong when dealing with London councils and businesses.
Maybe im wrong but the fact that he tried to buy West Ham (and failed) when there was obvious property development deals going on sort of backs up his real intentions.
As soon as he comes back on the scene there's a problem.
Call it a cheap shot if you like but the bloke continues to shoot himself in the foot. |
In no way is the current position of TF and the Board being poorly handled. I have been involved in these types of real-estate investment propositions for many years. Surprise, surprise, it is all about money.
The club was ridiculed for the way they supposedly dealt with Car Giant and now it transpires they were in it for the money! The Council are in it for the money and can see R’s have the “cash in hand” and see the club as the best vehicle to get a deal. R’s have a viable option on the LC site and have the cash, the plan, timeline and a credible community reason to stay in W12.
TF is absolutely right to call out the Council on this. As I said, it’s about money and how much the Council can squeeze out of the Board. The club should dig in and get a deal and that is what they are being advised to do. |  | | |
| QPR could leave H&F on 10:28 - Feb 9 with 1931 views | PunteR |
| QPR could leave H&F on 10:23 - Feb 9 by BostonR |
In no way is the current position of TF and the Board being poorly handled. I have been involved in these types of real-estate investment propositions for many years. Surprise, surprise, it is all about money.
The club was ridiculed for the way they supposedly dealt with Car Giant and now it transpires they were in it for the money! The Council are in it for the money and can see R’s have the “cash in hand” and see the club as the best vehicle to get a deal. R’s have a viable option on the LC site and have the cash, the plan, timeline and a credible community reason to stay in W12.
TF is absolutely right to call out the Council on this. As I said, it’s about money and how much the Council can squeeze out of the Board. The club should dig in and get a deal and that is what they are being advised to do. |
Maybe they should get you involved then?
Apologies for flippant remark.
I can only comment on what i know and see. I've not got insider knowledge or know anything about property investment in London. I've witnessed how the board have conducted themselves over the last nine years and formulated an opinion on that. You cant say they've been a roaring success can you? But if your confidant they are doing all the right things than that's good for you. I'm not confidant. [Post edited 9 Feb 2019 10:45]
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| QPR could leave H&F on 11:06 - Feb 9 with 1876 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR could leave H&F on 10:15 - Feb 9 by PunteR |
I'm not really sure what point your trying to make. If you don't agree with me that's fine.
If we end up on some industrial estate leasing a soulless stadium while Loftus road is sold up to recuperate the money lost over the last few years because of poor recruitment and management then maybe we can meet up over a couple of beers and have a chin wag and a laugh about that time we chatted bullsh*t to each other online thinking it actually made a difference... |
I'd love to join you for a refreshing ale or two, but it might be a while before I scrape up the fare.
I don't mind giving Tone a kick up the Arras, but only when it's crystal clear he's at fault. I don't see that here. If you think he is still hanging in there for a payday, ok, but don't forget he lost shitloads when he gave up throwing money at holding on to a PL place, and that was before he lost loads more with the FFP wrangling and outcome. You may think that he still holds hopes of some recompense with the development of the Loftus Road site (it could never cover what he's lost) but any rational view would be that the club is a money sink and he'd be better off bailing out before he pays for any more mistakes.
This battle has a long, long way to go and I think his motives are honourable. If leasing a soulless stadium on an industrial estate was the plan, he could have done that years ago. Of course, if he does that and makes a killing on the outcome, then f*cks off with the dosh, I'll admit I was wrong and call him a c*nt with all the rest of you, but until then, I'll stand behind the bloke. | |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 12:42 - Feb 9 with 1782 views | PunteR |
| QPR could leave H&F on 11:06 - Feb 9 by isawqpratwcity |
I'd love to join you for a refreshing ale or two, but it might be a while before I scrape up the fare.
I don't mind giving Tone a kick up the Arras, but only when it's crystal clear he's at fault. I don't see that here. If you think he is still hanging in there for a payday, ok, but don't forget he lost shitloads when he gave up throwing money at holding on to a PL place, and that was before he lost loads more with the FFP wrangling and outcome. You may think that he still holds hopes of some recompense with the development of the Loftus Road site (it could never cover what he's lost) but any rational view would be that the club is a money sink and he'd be better off bailing out before he pays for any more mistakes.
This battle has a long, long way to go and I think his motives are honourable. If leasing a soulless stadium on an industrial estate was the plan, he could have done that years ago. Of course, if he does that and makes a killing on the outcome, then f*cks off with the dosh, I'll admit I was wrong and call him a c*nt with all the rest of you, but until then, I'll stand behind the bloke. |
But heres the thing though. By the time we know for sure, when it becomes crystal clear that TF and the board are at fault , it will be too late.
Surely me and others questioning his motives, his decisions now is a good thing? Yes its very admirable of you to stand by him come what may but if everyone did that who's he answerable to?
I'm very uneasy about the Malaysians being the ones to move us out of Loftus Road. TF decision making has been shockingly bad in the past,you cant deny that? What makes you think he's getting this right? | |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 13:21 - Feb 9 with 1734 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Punter's right - surely it's good that we all question and monitor all developments?
Whether we as individuals trust the tactics or trust the board is down to mood, judgement and human nature, we may change our opinions many times, but in the meantime we should be watchful. It's our club, so it's going to attract the full gamut of emotions. |  |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 00:09 - Feb 10 with 1564 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR could leave H&F on 12:42 - Feb 9 by PunteR |
But heres the thing though. By the time we know for sure, when it becomes crystal clear that TF and the board are at fault , it will be too late.
Surely me and others questioning his motives, his decisions now is a good thing? Yes its very admirable of you to stand by him come what may but if everyone did that who's he answerable to?
I'm very uneasy about the Malaysians being the ones to move us out of Loftus Road. TF decision making has been shockingly bad in the past,you cant deny that? What makes you think he's getting this right? |
I can't stop you from questioning his motives, but I can point out that you are assuming the worst
I can't deny that he has made bad decisions in the past (and paid, out of his own pocket, for the consequences) but I will say that he always made those decisions on his perceived reasonable best interests of the club.
Tell me, which of his decisions show that he was putting his own interests above the club's?
Edit: italics correction. [Post edited 10 Feb 2019 4:33]
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| QPR could leave H&F on 01:30 - Feb 10 with 1540 views | PunteR |
| QPR could leave H&F on 00:09 - Feb 10 by isawqpratwcity |
I can't stop you from questioning his motives, but I can point out that you are assuming the worst
I can't deny that he has made bad decisions in the past (and paid, out of his own pocket, for the consequences) but I will say that he always made those decisions on his perceived reasonable best interests of the club.
Tell me, which of his decisions show that he was putting his own interests above the club's?
Edit: italics correction. [Post edited 10 Feb 2019 4:33]
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You could argue that completely ignoring the FFP rules and over spending in 2014 for the sake of getting back to the premier league was a little short sighted and not really putting the best interest of the club first. We got hit with the world's biggest fine and face a transfer embargo plus we're now skint.
His interests and the clubs interest sort of go hand in hand. Its in his interest for the club to be in the premier league. How he's tried to do that wasn't really in the best interest for the club. We as a club are now suffering the consequences.
You say i'm assuming the worst, you could be right but my assumptions are based on the appalling way he's run the club in the past. If the board wasn't so rich we probably would be on our knees. | |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 04:16 - Feb 10 with 1513 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR could leave H&F on 01:30 - Feb 10 by PunteR |
You could argue that completely ignoring the FFP rules and over spending in 2014 for the sake of getting back to the premier league was a little short sighted and not really putting the best interest of the club first. We got hit with the world's biggest fine and face a transfer embargo plus we're now skint.
His interests and the clubs interest sort of go hand in hand. Its in his interest for the club to be in the premier league. How he's tried to do that wasn't really in the best interest for the club. We as a club are now suffering the consequences.
You say i'm assuming the worst, you could be right but my assumptions are based on the appalling way he's run the club in the past. If the board wasn't so rich we probably would be on our knees. |
Is that all? For that you are attributing to him wider selfish motives against the interests of the club?
The massive overspend was a failure of implementation, not of policy. The managers made the purchase selections and wear the blame for the subsequent lack of value. I always considered it praiseworthy that Fernandes backed his managers' wishes to such an extent.
You say that Fernandes selfishly chased continued PL status? Funny, I don't recall many threads saying "We're too high up the table!" Of course we wanted continued PL status. Change only became inevitable when Fernandes faced the fact that his model was broken: the managerial 'expertise' that he backed wasn't going to save our top flight status.
And Fernandes, et al, sucked it all up. The owners swallowed the debts, and faced that they couldn't outrun FFP, and stuck around to swallow up those debts, too. The club isn't rich, but that's not because of the owner's selfishness, it's because FFP has hamstrung our best source of funds.
Fernandes tried to make the club the best it could be, using the only pertinent resource he possessed, ie, his wealth. Your take on that, instead as a selfish pursuit against the supposed interests and wishes of the club and fans, demonstrates clearly just how biased you are against Fernandes. Sad.
I suppose you will continue to make Fernandes your evil, rapacious bogey-man. But you really could try giving the bloke an even break. Bad motives aren't the necessary source of bad decisions. And besides, his decisions are getting better, too: clearing out Redknapp; bringing in Ferdinand; Hoos; McClaren (maybe?). | |
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| QPR could leave H&F on 09:10 - Feb 10 with 1416 views | PunteR |
| QPR could leave H&F on 04:16 - Feb 10 by isawqpratwcity |
Is that all? For that you are attributing to him wider selfish motives against the interests of the club?
The massive overspend was a failure of implementation, not of policy. The managers made the purchase selections and wear the blame for the subsequent lack of value. I always considered it praiseworthy that Fernandes backed his managers' wishes to such an extent.
You say that Fernandes selfishly chased continued PL status? Funny, I don't recall many threads saying "We're too high up the table!" Of course we wanted continued PL status. Change only became inevitable when Fernandes faced the fact that his model was broken: the managerial 'expertise' that he backed wasn't going to save our top flight status.
And Fernandes, et al, sucked it all up. The owners swallowed the debts, and faced that they couldn't outrun FFP, and stuck around to swallow up those debts, too. The club isn't rich, but that's not because of the owner's selfishness, it's because FFP has hamstrung our best source of funds.
Fernandes tried to make the club the best it could be, using the only pertinent resource he possessed, ie, his wealth. Your take on that, instead as a selfish pursuit against the supposed interests and wishes of the club and fans, demonstrates clearly just how biased you are against Fernandes. Sad.
I suppose you will continue to make Fernandes your evil, rapacious bogey-man. But you really could try giving the bloke an even break. Bad motives aren't the necessary source of bad decisions. And besides, his decisions are getting better, too: clearing out Redknapp; bringing in Ferdinand; Hoos; McClaren (maybe?). |
I appreciate you taking time out to write all that but that's not how i see TF at all. Although i can see how you've come to that conclusion.
Going down this personal hatred of TF route is way off the mark. I just tried to answer your question. (I've never called him a c@nt btw as you alluded to)
I don't tweet the bloke and don't discuss him on any other social media or with anybody actually.
The bottom line is it doesn't look like LCS is a goer. There is a very high possibility now that if TF and the other investors want to try and recoup the money lost then we could find ourselves a long way out from W12. Is that not a concern for you?
Over the years I've given TF credit where its due and criticised when due.
Look, his motives are clear to see for everyone.
He wanted to buy a London premier league club. Why? Because he wanted a vehicle to showcase his Airasia brand. He also wanted a London club where he could get a foot in the door to London property and development. I assume that's why the first appointment he made was Philip Beard an expert supposedly on london development (not football obviously). Those are quite clear motives and i haven't got a problem with that. The problem was/is he didnt do his due diligence. He didnt realise (i'm assuming) how bad our infrastructure was. Training ground, youth development etc. What was his solution? Wasting half a billion on players?. Why was he prepared to waste that amount of money? Why didn't he invest that money into our infrastructure? Was it because he wasn't really prepared or commited to do the graft, hence why he wanted to just buy a premier league club?
I've read on here that the owners didn't even look at the Unigate site when it was available. What about the bbc site , what happened there? When i look around all the other London clubs somehow getting bigger stadiums is it not reasonable to ask why have we struggled so much?
There's no doubt whats so ever that we are falling behind other clubs. He's been here nearly a decade and what have we got to show for it? There's a very real possibility that should players like Freeman leave we haven't got the money to spend on any players next season. Where are we now in the league? Bottom half? fans already talking about relegation battle. Its going to get tougher.
We have some of the world richest businessmen with stakes in the club and TF is taking to twitter to row with H&F !. Words fail me!
I'm not sure why your getting on my case so much as there's other groups of fans more dedicated at pointing out failures in TF and the club. I've even seen today funnily enough that there's even a FB group dedicated to staying in W12. They are saying the same as me. You should get involved with them so you can point out the error of their ways. [Post edited 11 Feb 2019 12:05]
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