Forum | talk sport and Les by macclesfieldman |

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread

talk sport and Les 13:54 - Dec 28 with 37754 views

talk sport discussing QPR this morning and wanted to talk to LF but Les said he was too poorly with a flu to take a telephone call. Bless.

Wild horses couldn't drag me away...

talk sport and Les on 08:51 - Dec 30 with 2216 views

paulparker

talk sport and Les on 03:03 - Dec 30 by Neil_SI

If this helps, though I'm sure it won't, but I would love a little go at League One. I don't think it will happen, but embrace it with open arms if it does. We'd have a cracking little team down there and have a lot of fun at the same time.

For what it's worth, Les Ferdinand's spell at the club has been well needed. Unfortunately for QPR, and for us, we're putting some very good and decent men in the firing line to clean up a helluva lot of shit caused by other people. Be grateful these men, QPR legends, who care about the club, are willing to put their heads on the chopping block to make QPR a better place in the future.

They are doing this because they love and care about QPR and they're still having to deal with clueless people above them at the same time. It must be frustrating for them, but someone's got to look out for our best interests at heart, and I'm bloody glad we have them here. It's a horrible job and, at times, a horrible club to work for.

I tip my hat to them. They have my full support. League One, Championship or Premier League.

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 3:04]

Are you on drugs ?

What evidence have you seen that remotely suggests that we would have a "cracking little team"
In league one ,it would be a complete and utter disaster if we go down again , also LF isn't doing this job from the goodness of his heart he gets a wage like everyone else so when his signings and mangers he appointed are performing as badly as they are why should he escape critism ?

So that I follow protocol on this MB I take it that our last championship winning manager Is now evil whilst Chris Ramsey, sir les and Tony are the shining lights of goodness ?

And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles Brian Moore

talk sport and Les on 09:06 - Dec 30 with 2202 views

1MoreBrightonR

6 pages of posts just because Les pulled a sickie on a radio interview? everyone feeling a bit bored after the excitement of opening presents on Christmas day are they?

talk sport and Les on 09:15 - Dec 30 with 2182 views

PunteR

This thread proves that bringing back Warnock was just asking for trouble. Another TF masterstroke.

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

talk sport and Les on 09:18 - Dec 30 with 2166 views

PunteR

talk sport and Les on 08:51 - Dec 30 by paulparker

We do have some good L1 players..

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

talk sport and Les on 09:23 - Dec 30 with 2150 views

Neil_SI

talk sport and Les on 08:51 - Dec 30 by paulparker

I just don't care what division we're in anymore mate. I don't find it that important, it's not the be all and end all for me when it comes to football or QPR anymore (and I've changed dramatically over the years when it used to be all about results for me).

Some people will say relegation is a disaster, but if it meant Fernandes sold up and left (not that it would happen, who would be stupid enough to buy?), that would be like winning the Champions League to me. Nice guy and all, but he's always been the real problem and the person responsible.

I'm not sure what your last comment means, but to spell it out and make it clear for you. I'm a fan of Warnock, Ramsey, Ferdinand and Holloway, all for different reasons.

Gosh that sounds like I'm a fan and a supporter. What must I be thinking? Let me balance that out and meet MB protocol by saying I was neither here or there about JFH, and not a fan, at all, of Fernandes.

On pitch performances and results were always going to be tricky for anybody in this transitional phase. It's a bad spell at the moment, obviously, and unfortunately that's the most important thing for most rather than the bigger picture and overall health and foundation of the club.

Maybe some day I'll care solely about performances and results, but until those foundations are back in place, and Fernandes goes (and we get someone much better in) it really doesn't matter.

I think Ferdinand's doing a very reasonable job in the circumstances. He's made mistakes, sure, but they need to be judged properly along with the good things he's done over a longer period of time. I get why some think he isn't doing a good job, but I hold a different view.

Clear?

talk sport and Les on 09:35 - Dec 30 with 2119 views

2Thomas2Bowles

Dave and Neil
I think you are giving credit to LF that really belongs to Hoo's

The Football side which LF is in charge of has been nothing short of dreadful.

You would think with all his experience in football along with CR's supposed talent as a coach that the group of players we have now may have mounted to something like a team busting their guts to do well, thats what they were asked to do along with JFH.

I did not like JFH but I never put everything down to him you can only work with the tools you are given and by christ we have some crap tools pretending to be players.

This is what Ollie now has to deal with and it's his head on the block, unfairly in MO.

FL signs players and if they don't work out it's the managers fault and he stays in his office twiddling his thumbs and taking no reasonability at all.

It would be the same if they sack Ollie and for any other manager that came in.

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 9:44]

	When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll:	What will the result of the GE be

talk sport and Les on 09:46 - Dec 30 with 2087 views

Roller

Les Ferdinand doesn't sign the players.

As we've been told on several occasions, the manager identifies a position he needs to improve and the qualities he is looking for. Ferdinand and the scouts come back with a list of players which they believes fulfil the manager's criteria and are available within the budget available and the manager then selects the one he wants or rejects the lot. The manager always has the final decision - unless, of course, you don't believe anything that the club tells us.

talk sport and Les on 09:50 - Dec 30 with 2072 views

2Thomas2Bowles

talk sport and Les on 09:46 - Dec 30 by Roller

Ferdinand and the scouts come back with a list of players

Well they have been doing a shite job.

	When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll:	What will the result of the GE be

talk sport and Les on 09:53 - Dec 30 with 2065 views

QPR_Jim

talk sport and Les on 09:46 - Dec 30 by Roller

Sometimes it's more convenient to ignore the truth. Hoos was part of the manager interview process too but it's only LF's fault if the manager is a failure.

talk sport and Les on 09:58 - Dec 30 with 2043 views

2Thomas2Bowles

talk sport and Les on 09:53 - Dec 30 by QPR_Jim
Sometimes it's more convenient to ignore the truth. Hoos was part of the manager interview process too but it's only LF's fault if the manager is a failure.

Well as Hoo's said himself he has nothing to do with the football side, it would only have been on the contract and how much the managers wanted.

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 9:58]

	When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll:	What will the result of the GE be

talk sport and Les on 09:58 - Dec 30 with 2036 views

Dorse

I think we're all missing the point here. Les is guilty of gross negligence. He should have had his flu jab months ago.

'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'

talk sport and Les on 10:03 - Dec 30 with 2024 views

Neil_SI

talk sport and Les on 09:50 - Dec 30 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Ferdinand and the scouts come back with a list of players Well they have been doing a shite job.

I actually like a lot of our signings and see the potential and resale value in them. We've done some very decent business, though obviously some of the players have to prove themselves, step up to the mark and answer questions.

We also need to balance this view out and show we are able, capable and willing to live within our means because of FFP related issues. FFP has been a blessing in disguise, preventing us from going wild and spending as madly as we'd done before.

The club has done a good job of keeping FFP low profile and out of the limelight, but it's there and has an impact on us.

I am more impressed by the deals we haven't done, and the players we haven't signed. There's been players and potential deals on the table, but we've walked away because we weren't sure about them. That to me is progress and a sign that QPR are changing for the better on these matters and are not going to let agents and players take liberties anymore. That's an image and reputation that will take a while to shake off, and we must shake it off if we're to recover from the disastrous period of spending that went on before.

It wasn't that long ago that we were not scouting at all, and just signing players on name and reputation alone, and paying vastly over the odds in transfer fees and salaries on them at the same time.

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 10:11]

talk sport and Les on 10:06 - Dec 30 with 2014 views

francisbowles

talk sport and Les on 00:13 - Dec 30 by QPR_Jim
Just to clarify it was an ego issue. It had nothing to do with him not wanting to work with a DoF and the club wanting a DoF to protect them from managers signing the likes of SWP, Barton, A.Ferdinand, Young and Puncheon for a shittonne of money with little in return? Just Les having an ego?

Not to mention Traore, oops!

talk sport and Les on 10:10 - Dec 30 with 2002 views

2Thomas2Bowles

talk sport and Les on 10:03 - Dec 30 by Neil_SI

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 10:11]

I actually like a lot of our signings and see the potential and resale value in theml

Great Lets sell a few then, we are a selling club after all.

Who should we start with

Smithies, check
Ummmm...

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 10:11]

	When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll:	What will the result of the GE be

talk sport and Les on 10:15 - Dec 30 with 1980 views

PunteR

talk sport and Les on 10:03 - Dec 30 by Neil_SI

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 10:11]

Out of interest Neil, do you think Holloway should be able to get a couple of players in Jan?
I do.

Occasional providers of half decent House music.

talk sport and Les on 10:27 - Dec 30 with 1950 views

Neil_SI

talk sport and Les on 10:10 - Dec 30 by 2Thomas2Bowles
I actually like a lot of our signings and see the potential and resale value in theml Great Lets sell a few then, we are a selling club after all. Who should we start with Smithies, check Ummmm... [Post edited 30 Dec 2016 10:11]

There's a strong chance we will have to sell players before we buy.

Smithies stock has risen because of his form, so perhaps his resale value is actually higher than they initially thought it would be. I've always liked him and seen his potential, but plenty of question marks were had about him. He hadn't left his hometown club, and in fact, there were rumours he was homesick for a while and was nearly on his way out of here. Huddersfield fans will tell you they liked him, but he always had a "Robert Green" moment in him. He appears to have eradicated those errors for the most part, but he has made one or two clangers in his time with us too. The third goal he conceded against Brighton, a case example. But this is why potential matters, and giving players the time to express themselves matters.

QPR took a risk on Smithies where others hadn't. But it was calculated and also he was just one of a number of targets they were after. The number one target was the very talented Dan Bentley, now of Brentford, but we weren't able to get the deal done.

But, if we sell Smithies and make a tidy profit to try and strengthen other areas of the squad, we've an excellent and highly thought of keeper in waiting in Matt Ingram. This is the kind of sensible squad building that's needed, not Robert Green and Julio Cesar at the same time and on the kind of pay scales they were both on. I'd actually even go as far to say that Ingram is overkill as an understudy because I want to see him playing and don't want to see his potential or resale value hurt by not having an opportunity. So, in this instance and as much as I want Smithies to stay, I'm comfortable with either one of them moving on permanently. We have this position covered, albeit Ingram has one or two more question marks to answer because of a lack of action.

Is this poor scouting? Is this poor planning?

There are plenty of players with resale value, including Grant Hall, Jake Bidwell, Jordan Cousins, Massimo Luongo, Tjarron Chery and more. Because of their ages and profile, any spell of form answers questions about them and makes them more attractive. Any spell of form is likely going to improve most of these players and take them on another level.

There were also plenty of clubs out there who wanted to sign the likes of Bidwell, Cousins, Luongo and Gladwin, but we got those deals done and over the line, at reasonable prices too. In fact, if you throw in Smithies and Ingram to those names, and it still probably doesn't make up what Aston Villa paid for just Jonathan Kodija (£11m rising to £15m) or just Ross McCormack (£12m), for example.

We had targets for strikers, but they were obviously way too expensive and therefore we backed off, and that, to be fair, has been a problem for us. We could do with a little bit more experience up top and a bit more Championship know-how in attack. But we can still get there through a lot of hard work in the meantime with what we have.

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 12:24]

talk sport and Les on 10:31 - Dec 30 with 1939 views

Neil_SI

talk sport and Les on 10:15 - Dec 30 by PunteR
Out of interest Neil, do you think Holloway should be able to get a couple of players in Jan? I do.

I do, yeah.

I think we could do with a little more Championship experience in the squad to help steady the ship through this tricky period. Perhaps there are some short-term deals that can be done, but finding strikers won't be easy or cheap. Who is going to let a good player go in January? It's probably going to cost, and it is probably worth it as a one-off and not a total change in strategy.

The likelihood is someone has to go in order to make that happen though. It might well be Chery and if the club can move Sandro on, having now played him a little bit to "prove" his fitness, then that is going to help in terms of salary options.

talk sport and Les on 10:34 - Dec 30 with 1929 views

daveB

talk sport and Les on 09:35 - Dec 30 by 2Thomas2Bowles

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 9:44]

I’d agree Hoos is doing a good job as well but won’t be long before he is a target, season ticket prices come out soon which should end his popularity.

I think if you judge Ferdinand on league position when he took over and now then of course he’s a disaster but as I’ve said before this was coming whether he came in or not, I don’t think sticking with Redknapp back in 2015 would have kept us up and seen us prosper, we were heading this way. I personally still don’t think we’ll go down this season but we need to buck our ideas up quickly.

For me the things Ferdinand deserves credit for are creating that pathway from the academy to the first team, that has not existed at QPR since Waddock left in 2006 when if a kid was good enough he'd get a chance. We'd have signed at least 6 more players last summer under the previous regime to be back up rather than use youth players as back up. Now we have youth team players comg into the team, they are being loaned out with a purpose to gain experience so they can either come back and play for us or be moved on and become professional footballers. Quite a few are doing well now and you have to give some of the credit for that to Steve Gallen who brought through a lot of these kids but none of them would have got anywhere near the team before Ferdinand came in and encouraged managers to look within for players and said no to the continuation of short term fixes which were creating this long term problem.

He's increased the money put into the academy on scouting players as well as coaching which was needed, it needs a hell of a lot more to even catch up with Brentford but it's been a step in the right direction.

Also think he deserves credit for changing the type of players we sign, we've gone away from big names and big money to signing younger players with potential so the plan is basically what QPR used to be, buy from lower leagues, develop them so they do well for us then sell at a profit. It’s what we did as far back as Rodney Marsh and Stan Bowles and later with Ferdinand, Sinton, Parker, Seaman etc. I don’t for a second think any of the current lot are on the same planet as those players but the idea of trying to do it this way rather than sign a 30 year old on a 4 year contract and replace him within 6 months was never going to be sustainable and has been the way at QPR for a decade.

Clearly not every signing has worked and both good and bad I don’t think every signing is solely down to Ferdinand so just as daft to give him credit for Smithies as it is to slate him for Perch. He’s set out the type of players the club will sign in terms of age and price but ultimately the players who sign are down to the manager.

It’s a very difficult model to make successful these days due to bosman so successes in recent years like Smithies and Chery won’t be sold for as much as you’d want due to them coming to the end of their contracts but it’s the only way a club our size can survive and prosper so we get into a position where we can keep players for longer and when we sell them they go for big money which can be reinvested.

Looking at this squad I don’t think it’s a relegation one and with some clever signings in January it’s a squad that could really improve and learn from these bad times but of course if we go down then Ferdinand and whoever the manager is would probably have to go. To get relegated having spent decent money is unacceptable. I’d just hope the changes Ferdinand has made would be continued if he left rather than us going back to the madhouse of throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.

talk sport and Les on 10:37 - Dec 30 with 1924 views

PinnerPaul

talk sport and Les on 21:44 - Dec 29 by daveB
We couldn't have got Warnock, he didn't want the job at the time and by the time he got the bug back and wanted it the job had been given to JFH. No idea what you are on about with Ferdinands ego being a problem, what do you mean by that?

Don't expect anyone to believe me, but Warnock would have stayed but for Les.

To be fair it wasn't Les himself he had a problem with, it was the DOF role - like many "old school" managers, Harry included, he didn't see the point of it.

Comes from an excellent source I have known for many years, but can't reveal who that is, so don't expect anyone to lend much credence to it, but its true nonetheless.

talk sport and Les on 10:39 - Dec 30 with 1918 views

2Thomas2Bowles

talk sport and Les on 10:27 - Dec 30 by Neil_SI

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 12:24]

You optimism on making any sort of profit (selling a valuable asset) from those players is I fear that you have been drinking to much port over the hoildays, fuddles your sence of reality.

	When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll:	What will the result of the GE be

talk sport and Les on 10:39 - Dec 30 with 1916 views

Northolt_Rs

talk sport and Les on 04:03 - Dec 30 by Neil_SI

These things go on all the time at football clubs, it's fairly common. But Warnock had been making a lot of noise about wanting to be a Director of Football, so he probably wanted Ferdinand's role, and if successful, would have brought in his own men (or "friends" as they're now known in the world of QPR).

But you know what, if Ferdinand really did "hound" Warnock out, then he's proven himself a very capable Director of Football already. That would bode well for his future and tell you something about the man, because think about this for a minute...

This is Les Ferdinand, the so-called novice, with no credentials for the role, but is able to convince Tony Fernandes, who listens to everybody and has already fired Warnock once, that a manager with over 1,000 games behind him (impressive), who previously got QPR promoted to the Premier League, was not worthy of the role. That he won this, is actually pleasing and impressive. That makes me stand up and take notice that he means business and has clout.

Warnock can't be bitter at being "hounded" out over a four-game temporary stint. He was angling for something better for himself, for sure, because he knows how to play the game. But if anything, he should be more mad at being hounded out by Tony Fernandes the first-time around, shouldn't he?

For what it's worth, I'm a fan of Warnock, but I thought the football under him in that four-game second spell was way worse than under Ramsey, JFH or Holloway. My word, we played 4-6-0 in one match and barely registered any shots or created any chances. We scored and conceded loads under Ramsey (the highest scorers in the league at the time) and then went the other way under Warnock, which was deliberate on Warnock's part as it was about ensuring he got some points on the board to build his case. That's how these things usually work. The football was drek though, I can tell you that. Maybe he'd have got past that had he actually got the job, but Ferdinand or no Ferdinand, Fernandes would have removed him at some untimely point later down the line anyway.

The key point to all of this is the club lacked a coherent vision. It has a much better one now under Ferdinand's role than it has done for many, many years. Some people fit that vision, some don't, and that means some people who you think are good, and who are good, still may not fit that vision, and that's what's likely happened here. As I said at the start, fairly common, and in all walks of life actually.

Strong leadership needs to know when and how to stay on the path and not veer off course. For years we've been like a leaderless, rudderless ship and I feel less that way now with Ferdinand around than I have done in years. Is he perfect? No. Has he made mistakes. Yes. But that's the same for everybody in any role, and he's done a lot of excellent work that has made a difference, and that could make a much bigger difference over time.

My hope is he sticks around for as long as he can, so that the good work cannot be undone so easily by people who don't actually know what they're doing, or who don't have the clubs best interest at heart.

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 4:10]

This is either a one million percent WUM or somebody that hasn't watched us play since Ferdinand has been involved. The bloke has been an unmitigated disaster. Look at the state we are in... Open your eyes FFS! From the Prem to a potential relegation to League 1 in less than two years. How can that be anything other than a complete disaster for QPR?

Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR.

talk sport and Les on 10:41 - Dec 30 with 1906 views

Northolt_Rs

talk sport and Les on 09:06 - Dec 30 by 1MoreBrightonR
6 pages of posts just because Les pulled a sickie on a radio interview? everyone feeling a bit bored after the excitement of opening presents on Christmas day are they?

Or maybe it shows he is as gutless as the team he has saddled us with. The manager's keep carrying the can whilst Teflon Les remains bullet-proof.

Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR.

-1

talk sport and Les on 10:47 - Dec 30 with 1893 views

PinnerPaul

talk sport and Les on 09:50 - Dec 30 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Ferdinand and the scouts come back with a list of players Well they have been doing a shite job.

Agree, must be SOMETHING wrong with the "system" as we haven't exactly signed many "gems" using this method.

-1

talk sport and Les on 10:47 - Dec 30 with 1893 views

DannytheR

talk sport and Les on 09:46 - Dec 30 by Roller

It's social media reality. If a fact doesn't fit how you see the situation, you just pretend it doesn't exist.

On the one hand, nothing the club does or says is to be trusted.

On the other, Neil Warnock (or an elderly lesbian PE teacher who looks a bit like him) told a starry-eyed bloke in a Brighton hotel that Les Ferdinand bullied him out of the club and is "the puppet master" of QPR. So that's a proven FACT.

Having had a look through the thread, I've been lucky enough to finally discover some other facts that were impeding my understanding of the last few years at QPR. Now, thank God, I realise that:

Les Ferdinand signs all the players, except the good ones.
Nobody knows who signs those ones, but it's probably Lee Hoos. Or Neil Warnock, during the four games he came back for, when we played like Holland circa 74 and won every game 6-0.
Les Ferdinand chooses to work with a massively restricted playing budget, and has repeatedly refused the bottomless pit of cash Harry Redknapp and Mark Hughes were given, because it doesn't suit his agenda. He also personally fabricated the existence of Financial Fair Play, getting Chris Ramsey to buy the ring binders at the big Rymans on King Street. (He keeps his agenda in one too).
Les Ferdinand picks the team, especially when we lose, and Chris Ramsey helps him do it, personally insisting that we pick Karl Henry apart from when we don't, which only happens when Les Ferdinand is off watching Tottenham.
JFH, now that we think of it, was only a poor manager because of the terrible players Les Ferdinand made us sign. (Remember: not the good ones). Unless he was a sh*t manager specifically appointed by Les Ferdinand to further his agenda (see above).
Neil Warnock signing Joey Barton and Shaun Wright Phillips was a golden age for QPR and we've been going downhill ever since. But he only signed them because of Flavio Briatore anyway. If he'd just had a little bit of backing that summer he had deals in place for Gareth Bale, Luis Suarez and Pele.
Harry Redknapp and Mark Hughes were good managers doing their best under difficult circumstances, or were never really here in the first place, but either way Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey took a young, hungry and successful team doing brilliantly in the Premiership, relegated it, and made a string of unkind comments about Clint Hill's hairdo in the changing room afterwards that made him feel unwelcome at the club.
Charlie Austin was desperate to go to Leicester and earn the club a £12m transfer fee until Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey stopped him, unless he wanted to loyally see out the final year of his contract and win us another promotion, in which case Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey made him tell them he now wanted a transfer to Southampton in January with only six months left on his contract.
Despite Tony Fernandes having a clear and well-established habit of making football decisions to curry favour with the fans, using their social media communication with him to decide on everything from the courting of Paul Clement to the hiring of Ian Holloway, the fans have nothing to do with anything bad that happens at the club. We're all brilliant, apart from the wnkers who support Les Ferdinand, who are probably secretly all Tottenham fans only here for the glory.
Neil Warnock has had a season ticket at Rangers since 1958, tells the fans of every club he manages that his one true love in football is QPR, and doesn't really look like an elderly lesbian PE teacher.

[Post edited 30 Dec 2016 10:49]

talk sport and Les on 10:59 - Dec 30 with 1863 views

francisbowles

If I as coming on here as a neutral, I would be of the opinion that the vast majority of the considered and non emotive posts are in support of Les whereas the opposite is true of those who are against him.

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread