| Is it the DoF? 08:46 - Sep 19 with 7382 views | Malintabuk |
Possibly done to death but surely there must now be a question of the philosophy in the club
It has been mentioned that we have not been able to defend under whoever is managing us, there have been a few recently and they can't all be incapable of organising a defence.
So do we need to look at something else. I always thought that the DoF should be the ethos of the club, regardless of which manager is appointed the DoF will ensure continuity.
Is our DoF in some way responsible for what seems to be a culture of non defending
I have never been in the camp of Les must go, but there must come a time when his employers are thinking why is this not improving, why are we not progressing and still making mistakes and not being organised.
I think every fan knows that we are not in a great place talent wise, money wise. We do have a few decent players and should be safe, but is that the bottom line for us, now to every year make the same mistakes and hope that we cling on?
Or is it time to not get rid of personnel, but to at least look at is what we are doing correct? |  | | |  |
| Is it the DoF? on 08:52 - Sep 19 with 5256 views | ingeminate |
Some good points here.
Plus I had a really bad curry last night. At first I didn’t connect the dots, but the more I think about it the more I’m thinking that was probably Les’ fault too. |  |
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| Is it the DoF? on 08:55 - Sep 19 with 5232 views | BrianMcCarthy |
"there must now be a question of the philosophy in the club"
Now?
This Morning?
Not last week when we had won?
Now? |  |
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| Is it the DoF? on 09:08 - Sep 19 with 5181 views | Malintabuk |
| Is it the DoF? on 08:55 - Sep 19 by BrianMcCarthy |
"there must now be a question of the philosophy in the club"
Now?
This Morning?
Not last week when we had won?
Now? |
Yes now
As I said we do have some decent players and we are always going to get results and I said is that our ambition as a club? To hang on in there and just get by?
My question is not aimed at Wharburton but really at the club. I don't think any of us believe after the years of silliness it is going to be an overnight success but there have been a steady stream of managers that all seem to not be able to organise us or make us defend. Why is that?
If they are bad managers then why were they appointed? The best we can hope for? Who really would want to manage us is often asked. We are never going to be an attractive lure but we still find someone
Wharburton is a clever man and he made mistakes and I would think he as learned from them. I think he has over 60 odd matches now and not a bit of improvement of the defence, surely someone in the club is asking why? | | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 09:08 - Sep 19 with 5170 views | Lblock |
“Not been able to defend under whoever is managing us”
That’s not strictly true.
A certain someone came back in for a second stint as caretaker under the DoF tenure and I do t believe we conceded a goal. Granted we didn’t set the world alight but clean sheets are a platform
He was deemed not the right fit in the philosophy taking the club forward so off he went.
Not sure what happened to him, probably yet another promotion in his annual farewell tour.
Any team can be drilled into proper defending, you make your own luck with attitude in this game. It just seems that’s not the philosophy at the club.... the results aren’t important culture has permeated its way right up to the match day squad!!!!!!! |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Is it the DoF? on 09:18 - Sep 19 with 5142 views | Hastings_Hoops |
That would pre-suppose that Les Ferdinand is instructing the coaches to deliberately not defend, or to not bother practicing defending. Further, that the coaches accept this instruction, knowing it would lead to their sacking a few months later - which would be ridiculous.
It is more a case that the DOF is turning the titanic and of course the turning part takes the longest. McClaren was a mistake and actually took the club back off course a bit (he wasn’t Les’ appointment), last season was ‘major surgery’, this season is consolidation / contract renewals / youth development. Let’s see what the next season and a half brings.
Brentfart wasn’t built in a day. [Post edited 19 Sep 2020 9:22]
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| Is it the DoF? on 09:33 - Sep 19 with 5090 views | flynnbo |
How can you misspell our manager’s name twice? |  | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 09:42 - Sep 19 with 5040 views | paulparker |
| Is it the DoF? on 09:08 - Sep 19 by Lblock |
“Not been able to defend under whoever is managing us”
That’s not strictly true.
A certain someone came back in for a second stint as caretaker under the DoF tenure and I do t believe we conceded a goal. Granted we didn’t set the world alight but clean sheets are a platform
He was deemed not the right fit in the philosophy taking the club forward so off he went.
Not sure what happened to him, probably yet another promotion in his annual farewell tour.
Any team can be drilled into proper defending, you make your own luck with attitude in this game. It just seems that’s not the philosophy at the club.... the results aren’t important culture has permeated its way right up to the match day squad!!!!!!! |
Yep agree
Isn’t Ramsey’s job to oversee all of the coaching at the club? The same coach who also couldn’t manage a team to defend if his life depended on it |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Is it the DoF? on 09:46 - Sep 19 with 5027 views | PhilmyRs |
3 points from first 2 league games and a clean sheet in the first one against big spending opposition. As overreactions go, this is quite high up the list | | | |
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| Is it the DoF? on 10:15 - Sep 19 with 4945 views | Malintabuk |
| Is it the DoF? on 09:46 - Sep 19 by PhilmyRs |
3 points from first 2 league games and a clean sheet in the first one against big spending opposition. As overreactions go, this is quite high up the list |
LBlock is spot on Warnonck came for 4 matches and seemed to have got us organised enough to keep clean sheets.
Did he want to stay apparently not according to the club, so what he may have achieved again is pure conjecture but in 4 games he managed to keep clean sheets
It seems that we have lost the idea of wining/drawing ugly. All great teams and even average teams have that ability, we don't. We either get tonked or we tonk..........there is often no middle ground for us.
It is not just 2 games though is it? It's the systemic process we seemed to have developed as a club. | | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:27 - Sep 19 with 4901 views | QPR_John |
| Is it the DoF? on 09:46 - Sep 19 by PhilmyRs |
3 points from first 2 league games and a clean sheet in the first one against big spending opposition. As overreactions go, this is quite high up the list |
It is not the defeat but the nature of the defeat. If you are on top for 40 odd minutes, score from a penalty to go one up and then collapse because the opposition have equalised it is hardly surprising there are some comments. | | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:33 - Sep 19 with 4869 views | bosh67 |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:27 - Sep 19 by QPR_John |
It is not the defeat but the nature of the defeat. If you are on top for 40 odd minutes, score from a penalty to go one up and then collapse because the opposition have equalised it is hardly surprising there are some comments. |
What worried me a little is that Warbs said the changing room was flat at half time because we conceded the goal just before half time and that we carried that out onto the pitch for the first 15 minutes of the second half.
We have a lot of good senior characters in that squad so you would hope that they would gee up the players and say, come on guys, let's get back on top here and get the job done.
I think we generally have a bunch of honest hard working players in this squad but they do tend to either lose concentration or let their heads drop when things go against them.
That's got nothing to do with Les, it's about the players not feeling sorry for themselves, being more positive and having some faith in their ability. |  |
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| Is it the DoF? on 10:44 - Sep 19 with 4843 views | paulparker |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:33 - Sep 19 by bosh67 |
What worried me a little is that Warbs said the changing room was flat at half time because we conceded the goal just before half time and that we carried that out onto the pitch for the first 15 minutes of the second half.
We have a lot of good senior characters in that squad so you would hope that they would gee up the players and say, come on guys, let's get back on top here and get the job done.
I think we generally have a bunch of honest hard working players in this squad but they do tend to either lose concentration or let their heads drop when things go against them.
That's got nothing to do with Les, it's about the players not feeling sorry for themselves, being more positive and having some faith in their ability. |
That's got nothing to do with Les, it's about the players not feeling sorry for themselves, being more positive and having some faith in their ability.
But hasn’t les bought most of these players ? If they lack the character to come out in the second half and take the game by the scruff of the neck then we really do have some issues | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Is it the DoF? on 10:44 - Sep 19 with 4848 views | qprd |
| Is it the DoF? on 08:55 - Sep 19 by BrianMcCarthy |
"there must now be a question of the philosophy in the club"
Now?
This Morning?
Not last week when we had won?
Now? |
Brian, I know mate. Preach
Literally the most banal uninteresting discussion that somehow crops up every single time we get a bad result
The qpr version of “Messi v ronaldo” or any debate abt Brexit post 2017 | | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:50 - Sep 19 with 4825 views | DejR_vu |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:32 - Sep 19 by Juzzie |
Here we go again. Another long season beckons where every time we don’t win a game (only the top 3-4 teams win more games than they don’t win) it’s all doom and gloom and stern questions asked that don’t get asked when we do win a game.
[Post edited 19 Sep 2020 10:41]
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If these issues were being raised when we’ve won the people raising them would get absolutely slaughtered on here. If they can’t be raised when we’ve been turned over, when should they be raised??
EDIT: to be clear, i’m not commenting on the question posed in the opening post, but more generally. [Post edited 19 Sep 2020 10:54]
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| Is it the DoF? on 10:59 - Sep 19 with 4793 views | francisbowles |
| Is it the DoF? on 09:42 - Sep 19 by paulparker |
Yep agree
Isn’t Ramsey’s job to oversee all of the coaching at the club? The same coach who also couldn’t manage a team to defend if his life depended on it |
That's a really stupid comment about Chris Ramsey.
Is it his fault that players make mistakes on the pitch? That they sometimes lose concentration, or a beaten to a ball because an opponent who knows the play they are about to make, reacts a split second before him and gets there first? Or that players new to the team are going to take time to adapt and their form may be patchy?
The same points also apply to the DOF, Manager and all the coaches. They do their jobs and the players make errors, so they work on it and try and correct it but it goes wrong. We are having to shop for bargains, they inevitably aren't perfect. | | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:01 - Sep 19 with 4782 views | qprd |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:50 - Sep 19 by DejR_vu |
If these issues were being raised when we’ve won the people raising them would get absolutely slaughtered on here. If they can’t be raised when we’ve been turned over, when should they be raised??
EDIT: to be clear, i’m not commenting on the question posed in the opening post, but more generally. [Post edited 19 Sep 2020 10:54]
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It’s an irrelevant question to the problem at hand
Honestly, it’s like blaming the water pressure in the ellerslie road toilets for our set piece defending | | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:01 - Sep 19 with 4780 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
This is why we can’t have nice things. |  | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:08 - Sep 19 with 4752 views | DejR_vu |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:01 - Sep 19 by qprd |
It’s an irrelevant question to the problem at hand
Honestly, it’s like blaming the water pressure in the ellerslie road toilets for our set piece defending |
I agree about the relevance of the question which is why I specifically said that my comment was based upon the generality of raising issues after defeats | |
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| Is it the DoF? on 11:18 - Sep 19 with 4718 views | eastside_r |
No. |  | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:21 - Sep 19 with 4704 views | QPR_Jim |
Does seem like a bit of an over-reaction, and quite a lot of illogical thought processes.
Youth football is about gaining experience and sometime you play players out of position; or you move them up to a higher age group to help their development, so trying to link their performances with first team performances seems a bit of a jump. We also have people telling us that Eze wasn’t a youth player, nor was BOS, Manning, Chair etc etc, so quite how that bleeds over into our first team squad from players who didn't come from the youth team and don’t even train in the same training ground is interesting.
Another thing is that no professional footballer has got there by accepting losing, they all want to win and have a great drive to improve to make sure they are part of the 1% who make it to the professional game, so to suggest that by not winning youth games the whole team (in fact every player contracted to QPR) suddenly doesn’t mind losing is ridiculous.
If you were to ask QPR fans about QPR you’re likely to hear about Marsh, Bowles & Tarrabt, majestic attacking players who played as part of teams which attacked. What we’re seeing now our main philosophy for first team and youth teams is to try and play a style of football which chimes with those values and people moan that it’s not great defensively. It doesn't always work and can lead to frustrating results but the alternative is to focus on defensive football and just not losing. If we’d had a history of 6ft+ players in every position and grinding out results we could use that as our club philosophy, hire Pulis and head straight up, but that’s not QPR and likely to lose as many fans as it gains. |  | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:25 - Sep 19 with 4692 views | TacticalR |
@QPR_Jim 'If we’d had a history of 6ft+ players in every position and grinding out results we could use that as our club philosophy, hire Pulis and head straight up, but that’s not QPR and likely to lose as many fans as it gains.'
That stuff doesn't even work for Pulis any more. |  |
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| Is it the DoF? on 11:28 - Sep 19 with 4685 views | francisbowles |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:21 - Sep 19 by QPR_Jim |
Does seem like a bit of an over-reaction, and quite a lot of illogical thought processes.
Youth football is about gaining experience and sometime you play players out of position; or you move them up to a higher age group to help their development, so trying to link their performances with first team performances seems a bit of a jump. We also have people telling us that Eze wasn’t a youth player, nor was BOS, Manning, Chair etc etc, so quite how that bleeds over into our first team squad from players who didn't come from the youth team and don’t even train in the same training ground is interesting.
Another thing is that no professional footballer has got there by accepting losing, they all want to win and have a great drive to improve to make sure they are part of the 1% who make it to the professional game, so to suggest that by not winning youth games the whole team (in fact every player contracted to QPR) suddenly doesn’t mind losing is ridiculous.
If you were to ask QPR fans about QPR you’re likely to hear about Marsh, Bowles & Tarrabt, majestic attacking players who played as part of teams which attacked. What we’re seeing now our main philosophy for first team and youth teams is to try and play a style of football which chimes with those values and people moan that it’s not great defensively. It doesn't always work and can lead to frustrating results but the alternative is to focus on defensive football and just not losing. If we’d had a history of 6ft+ players in every position and grinding out results we could use that as our club philosophy, hire Pulis and head straight up, but that’s not QPR and likely to lose as many fans as it gains. |
Really, good post.
We were ultra defensive under McClaren even with Luke Freeman and Eze both playing almost every game, after a decent couple of months it went completely wrong. | | | |
| Is it the DoF? on 11:41 - Sep 19 with 4647 views | paulparker |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:59 - Sep 19 by francisbowles |
That's a really stupid comment about Chris Ramsey.
Is it his fault that players make mistakes on the pitch? That they sometimes lose concentration, or a beaten to a ball because an opponent who knows the play they are about to make, reacts a split second before him and gets there first? Or that players new to the team are going to take time to adapt and their form may be patchy?
The same points also apply to the DOF, Manager and all the coaches. They do their jobs and the players make errors, so they work on it and try and correct it but it goes wrong. We are having to shop for bargains, they inevitably aren't perfect. |
No it’s not he couldn’t coach a defence with Clint hill & richard dunne in the side and that’s a fact ,
He oversees the whole coaching set up does he not ? , our junior sides were getting thrashed the other week , the game of football is not just about number 10s and playing out from the back
You defend first as a team
i keep hearing how it’s the players fault now, funny how I don’t remember that being the narrative when JFH and Mclaren were getting pelters for their team conceding goals
Your basically saying that it’s got nothing to do with the coaching staff how the team defend all they can do is keep doing what they are doing and hope the team keeps their concentration | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Is it the DoF? on 11:49 - Sep 19 with 4632 views | wood_hoop |
| Is it the DoF? on 10:33 - Sep 19 by bosh67 |
What worried me a little is that Warbs said the changing room was flat at half time because we conceded the goal just before half time and that we carried that out onto the pitch for the first 15 minutes of the second half.
We have a lot of good senior characters in that squad so you would hope that they would gee up the players and say, come on guys, let's get back on top here and get the job done.
I think we generally have a bunch of honest hard working players in this squad but they do tend to either lose concentration or let their heads drop when things go against them.
That's got nothing to do with Les, it's about the players not feeling sorry for themselves, being more positive and having some faith in their ability. |
Could not agree more with this, most most of it anyway.
Warbs comes across to me as a decent manager, either the players lack the confidence in their abilities or are not happy with MW tatics.
Confidence is such a key word, we played reasonably confidently in the first half bar the last minute or so, second half was very irksome, despite clawing our way back, fcuk knows how a precious away point was thrown away.
MW does need to do some serious ass kicking to some, arm round the shoulder to others,not a great lover of his defensive tatics but 44 minutes of the first half prooved that it may not get you jumping out of your seat but its a step towards nulifying your oppenents, working on then making the opposition leave gaps for your attacking players to take advantage of, is still it seems a very much work in progress
Coventry were never going to lie down and let us roll over them, team just promoted, first homish game,I was tempted a little on having a bet on us winning last night, hopeful more than anything else though, learnt the hard way use the head rather than heart when having a punt on us.
Confidence may come a little more if MW uses the better signs of the game, to me we played at times in fear, no need. |  | | |
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