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Apparently: The Academy is being cut back to Tier 3 All Youth coaches will be part-time The kids will be back at Llandarcy or the Elba and the First team back at Landore Fairwood is being offloaded back to the University....or another buyer like a Health Club chain They can’t afford to pay McBurnie’s bonus for scoring so he’s being used sparingly Most of the young players who have come through this season are being lined up for transfers If Potter gets an offer, he will be off because it will involve a compensation payment.
We are in a battle for survival. I am depressed. Shades of 1982 all over again.
How on earth did it come to this?
[Post edited 4 Apr 2019 14:55]
"Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22)
I bow to your knowledge on all that, but I believe the cream rises to the top eventually whether local or not. When we sign kids from other teams they won’t all be a success like James, Byers and arguably Fulton too. It hasn’t been a particularity bad strategy IMO, that’s all I’m trying to say
Thanks for the apology - you dopey fecking tw@@t. ...😂
Thanks for the apology - you dopey fecking tw@@t. ...😂
Cheers Jasper T - you are all knowing mate...ðŸ‘
How you've found an apology in that I have no idea? Though you've chatted complete sh*te for years, I don't know why I expected that to change tonight. Mince. Complete f*cking mince.
We're cat 2 mate. I don't think the upper end of our academy is fit for purpose. Its impossible to play against Colchester u23s (who are mostly made up of 17 year olds) on a Monday then be expected to step up and play against Man City first team on a Saturday.
Could you explain what you mean? Upper end of academy? Why would academy players be expected to play against Man City? Cheers
Could you explain what you mean? Upper end of academy? Why would academy players be expected to play against Man City? Cheers
The next step from development games is the Premier League for Cardiff this season. It's a huge leap, bigger than the one we had in the PL in the last few years (as the standard of development fixtures in Cat One is higher) and our fans considered impossible.
The next step from development games is the Premier League for Cardiff this season. It's a huge leap, bigger than the one we had in the PL in the last few years (as the standard of development fixtures in Cat One is higher) and our fans considered impossible.
"Upper end" would mean the oldest age group.
Ah right, I get you. So that's another reason to keep cat 1 status in the championship, as our players will be much more ready to play against Championship first teams, after playing against the top u23 teams.
I cannot see any reasons whatsoever for downgrading. Sorry, that's a lie....money is the only reason.
Is there a reasonable way a club of our size can run a Cat 1 academy outside of the premier league? How could it work?
Ah right, I get you. So that's another reason to keep cat 1 status in the championship, as our players will be much more ready to play against Championship first teams, after playing against the top u23 teams.
I cannot see any reasons whatsoever for downgrading. Sorry, that's a lie....money is the only reason.
Is there a reasonable way a club of our size can run a Cat 1 academy outside of the premier league? How could it work?
You either have to have rich owners willing to run at a loss for years at a time waiting for some golden geese to pay for all (or promotion), or sell your most promising kids every year to balance the books and run the first team as something of a shop window.
Not that either of those approaches is unusual in normal Championship sides. Most teams make use of a few teenagers here and there due to the number of games and smaller squad sizes than in the PL, and there's always going to be pressure to sell your best players. Brentford don't even have an academy and operate on the basis of a high turnover of young players coming through to keep them profitable. The Cat One academy cost adds to the pressure to sell.
Blackburn have Venkys, Derby have been gambling on promotion and the owner is open to selling up, Stoke have the Coates family, Villa huge club etc.
The next step from development games is the Premier League for Cardiff this season. It's a huge leap, bigger than the one we had in the PL in the last few years (as the standard of development fixtures in Cat One is higher) and our fans considered impossible.
"Upper end" would mean the oldest age group.
Yeah that's about right mate. I genuinely believe it would be counter productive for you to undo all your hard work and return to that
You either have to have rich owners willing to run at a loss for years at a time waiting for some golden geese to pay for all (or promotion), or sell your most promising kids every year to balance the books and run the first team as something of a shop window.
Not that either of those approaches is unusual in normal Championship sides. Most teams make use of a few teenagers here and there due to the number of games and smaller squad sizes than in the PL, and there's always going to be pressure to sell your best players. Brentford don't even have an academy and operate on the basis of a high turnover of young players coming through to keep them profitable. The Cat One academy cost adds to the pressure to sell.
Blackburn have Venkys, Derby have been gambling on promotion and the owner is open to selling up, Stoke have the Coates family, Villa huge club etc.
There are other clubs outside the premier who have managed to sustain cat 1 academies. Reading, Boro, Sunderland, Norwich, Fulham (last year), Wolves in recent years etc.
If you look at your club you're in a position where you have a manager who is likely to be patient and utilise the talent in the academy whereas someone like Tony Pulis at Boro would be more likely to want older more physical players and technical ability wouldn't be at the forefront of his thinking.
If you look at some of the successful academies in recent years Fulham and Norwich have managed to bring players through due to the fact (in my opinion) that the gap isn't so big between Premier league 2 and the championship.
You would definitely need to be a selling club to be able to sustain cat 1 status but that is expected anyway. You sold Ben Davies and Joe Allen when you weren't cat 1. If you manage to sell one player at £7 or £8 million every other year then the academy will pay for itself. Of course you also need to be a bit more shrewd when recruiting players into the academy as some of you imports look suspect to say the least.
Hopefully (from your point of view) with the exposure the younger age groups get to a cat 1 academy in terms of time being coached and better coaching etc they'll be more equipped which would prevent the need for bringing in so many players from elsewhere.
There are other clubs outside the premier who have managed to sustain cat 1 academies. Reading, Boro, Sunderland, Norwich, Fulham (last year), Wolves in recent years etc.
If you look at your club you're in a position where you have a manager who is likely to be patient and utilise the talent in the academy whereas someone like Tony Pulis at Boro would be more likely to want older more physical players and technical ability wouldn't be at the forefront of his thinking.
If you look at some of the successful academies in recent years Fulham and Norwich have managed to bring players through due to the fact (in my opinion) that the gap isn't so big between Premier league 2 and the championship.
You would definitely need to be a selling club to be able to sustain cat 1 status but that is expected anyway. You sold Ben Davies and Joe Allen when you weren't cat 1. If you manage to sell one player at £7 or £8 million every other year then the academy will pay for itself. Of course you also need to be a bit more shrewd when recruiting players into the academy as some of you imports look suspect to say the least.
Hopefully (from your point of view) with the exposure the younger age groups get to a cat 1 academy in terms of time being coached and better coaching etc they'll be more equipped which would prevent the need for bringing in so many players from elsewhere.
That's one player for £7-8m every other year in addition to the players we're already going to have to sell every year to cover the standard operating losses of a club at this level.
Sunderland aren't in a rosy position despite crowds of 30k in League One. Although owing £45m to clubs for past transfer disasters (while only being owed £10m) plays a big part in that. New ownership doesn't wipe a slate entirely clean.
Norwich are profitable and successful having sold two stars a year in Pritchard & Murphy, then Murphy & Maddison for over £10m a piece. Plenty could follow this summer if they weren't getting promoted (Lewis & Aarons). Difficult act to follow, maybe DJ and McBurnie could pull in those fees?
That's one player for £7-8m every other year in addition to the players we're already going to have to sell every year to cover the standard operating losses of a club at this level.
Sunderland aren't in a rosy position despite crowds of 30k in League One. Although owing £45m to clubs for past transfer disasters (while only being owed £10m) plays a big part in that. New ownership doesn't wipe a slate entirely clean.
Norwich are profitable and successful having sold two stars a year in Pritchard & Murphy, then Murphy & Maddison for over £10m a piece. Plenty could follow this summer if they weren't getting promoted (Lewis & Aarons). Difficult act to follow, maybe DJ and McBurnie could pull in those fees?
Granted it would cost more to fund the running of the club but my argument was whether the academy could fund itself and I believe it could.
Bear in my that having a Category 1 academy only costs £1.5 million more than having a category 2 academy so if you weigh up the exposure the kids are getting against top quality players enabling them to step up earlier then i believe it is money well spent.
You would also need to have a better scouting network to bring in players to suit your style whilst their stock is still low and sell them on at a profit. Obviously this is easier said than done but it is still possible as we've seen with players like Buendia at Norwich this season.
You are in a better position to judge than me but surely the manager has high hopes for Jordan Garrick and hopefully Jack Evans can get back to near the form he was showing before his illness. Then surely there's optimism about Aaron Lewis, Cooper, Cabango etc.
For me it's a no brainer at the moment. If your academy dries up and stops producing then the subject can be revisited but surely when it's more than serving its purpose it's worth persisting with the level it's currently at.
Interesting that Buendia name is mentioned. People realise that we could have signed him 18months but at 2m was seen as to much of a risk. Throw in the fact that he was recommended by a scout outside the Jenkins scouting system.
Interesting that Buendia name is mentioned. People realise that we could have signed him 18months but at 2m was seen as to much of a risk. Throw in the fact that he was recommended by a scout outside the Jenkins scouting system.
Just saying like.
I've said before that I've seen parallels between your lot this season and Norwich last season and this interview with Stuart Webber (Norwich sporting director) is well worth a listen if anyone has time cos it's on for about 90 minutes!
Granted it would cost more to fund the running of the club but my argument was whether the academy could fund itself and I believe it could.
Bear in my that having a Category 1 academy only costs £1.5 million more than having a category 2 academy so if you weigh up the exposure the kids are getting against top quality players enabling them to step up earlier then i believe it is money well spent.
You would also need to have a better scouting network to bring in players to suit your style whilst their stock is still low and sell them on at a profit. Obviously this is easier said than done but it is still possible as we've seen with players like Buendia at Norwich this season.
You are in a better position to judge than me but surely the manager has high hopes for Jordan Garrick and hopefully Jack Evans can get back to near the form he was showing before his illness. Then surely there's optimism about Aaron Lewis, Cooper, Cabango etc.
For me it's a no brainer at the moment. If your academy dries up and stops producing then the subject can be revisited but surely when it's more than serving its purpose it's worth persisting with the level it's currently at.
I believe it could too... But with owners like this, I wonder if they would prefer £1.5m in their back pockets, or spending £1.5m on making the club more secure?
I believe it could too... But with owners like this, I wonder if they would prefer £1.5m in their back pockets, or spending £1.5m on making the club more secure?
If the owners won't bring players in and they are cutting back on staff and players at the academy and the first team there comes a point where to restructure is going to be called to dismantle.
If the owners won't bring players in and they are cutting back on staff and players at the academy and the first team there comes a point where to restructure is going to be called to dismantle.
Been a great player for us. M van der hoorn. All the best if the board don't keep him. Huw offered him a two year contract.
If the owners won't bring players in and they are cutting back on staff and players at the academy and the first team there comes a point where to restructure is going to be called to dismantle.
I think at least with the appointment of Birch we've got a chance of him seeing this team's potential and at least putting up a fight for Potter for some funds in the summer. We're so close to having a promotion winning team bar a few additions.
But the bottom line is that the American's are distracted by DC united and seem to have totally lost interest. Even though promotion sould make us a highly saleable asset again (as well as net them a bit more profit).
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
I think at least with the appointment of Birch we've got a chance of him seeing this team's potential and at least putting up a fight for Potter for some funds in the summer. We're so close to having a promotion winning team bar a few additions.
But the bottom line is that the American's are distracted by DC united and seem to have totally lost interest. Even though promotion sould make us a highly saleable asset again (as well as net them a bit more profit).
I think you are being very optimistic in relation to Birch. His first comments were to warn the fans to expect more nasty medicine. You have to ask how on Earth this club got into the shit it clearly is in....and the answer is there for anyone to see. Meanwhile, as a Trust member I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the latest input from The Trust. It seems that the Legal Action nuclear action is subject to more delays than Brexit...and just like Brexit, pretty soon if they don’t understand that they’ve either got to take a shit or get off the pot, the opportunity will have come and gone...it’ll be too late. The club is going down the pan...the Yanks treat everyone with contempt and we are paralysed by indecision. #beyondparody.
"Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22)
I think you are being very optimistic in relation to Birch. His first comments were to warn the fans to expect more nasty medicine. You have to ask how on Earth this club got into the shit it clearly is in....and the answer is there for anyone to see. Meanwhile, as a Trust member I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the latest input from The Trust. It seems that the Legal Action nuclear action is subject to more delays than Brexit...and just like Brexit, pretty soon if they don’t understand that they’ve either got to take a shit or get off the pot, the opportunity will have come and gone...it’ll be too late. The club is going down the pan...the Yanks treat everyone with contempt and we are paralysed by indecision. #beyondparody.
The area isn’t around to defend Huw , perhaps he’s realised that he can’t defend the indefensible. All his work of bringing the club to the PL has been rendered void by his actions stemming from the sacking of Laudrup to the sale and the ridiculous acquisitions and massive contracts he handed to the Ayews , Bony, Narsingh , Baston etc etc .
The trust situation I’m not keeping track on because nothing ever seems to happen there anyway.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
I think you are being very optimistic in relation to Birch. His first comments were to warn the fans to expect more nasty medicine. You have to ask how on Earth this club got into the shit it clearly is in....and the answer is there for anyone to see. Meanwhile, as a Trust member I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the latest input from The Trust. It seems that the Legal Action nuclear action is subject to more delays than Brexit...and just like Brexit, pretty soon if they don’t understand that they’ve either got to take a shit or get off the pot, the opportunity will have come and gone...it’ll be too late. The club is going down the pan...the Yanks treat everyone with contempt and we are paralysed by indecision. #beyondparody.
Birch looks a decent appointment in terms of getting us out of deep sh*t off the field, but as a consequence of that I can't imagine us having a penny to spend in the summer.
We will rely on a few more breakthroughs from the academy and a few loans in my opinion.
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