| Seven gone from Labour 10:28 - Feb 18 with 21938 views | DWQPR |
Three more than went to form the SDP back in 1981. Interesting times for the Labour Party and for politics in general. |  |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 16:15 - Feb 20 with 2251 views | OakR |
| Seven gone from Labour on 13:47 - Feb 20 by BklynRanger |
I thought Heidi Allen spoke very well just now I must say. All Anna Soubry did was describe how upset she is about the Tories - how inspiring... |
Agreed - I thought she was refreshingly impressive. | |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 18:36 - Feb 20 with 2130 views | Boston |
After having read all the names I still cannot find out who this Sven is! | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 20:33 - Feb 20 with 2065 views | FDC |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 20:37 - Feb 20 with 2056 views | colinallcars |
I think if this group get a few big-hitters to join them, they could really take off. The two main parties are morally and practicallyredundant and cannot address the enormous problems facing this country. |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 20:45 - Feb 20 with 2040 views | stowmarketrange |
| Seven gone from Labour on 20:37 - Feb 20 by colinallcars |
I think if this group get a few big-hitters to join them, they could really take off. The two main parties are morally and practicallyredundant and cannot address the enormous problems facing this country. |
Why should anyone believe anything they say?Morally they should hold by-elections in each of their constituencies ASAP.To use Brexit as an excuse is just a cop out. |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 20:52 - Feb 20 with 2027 views | colinallcars |
| Seven gone from Labour on 20:45 - Feb 20 by stowmarketrange |
Why should anyone believe anything they say?Morally they should hold by-elections in each of their constituencies ASAP.To use Brexit as an excuse is just a cop out. |
I agree they should go to the electorate, but something needs to be done to change the two main parties. | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 22:02 - Feb 20 with 1971 views | Sharpy36 |
| Seven gone from Labour on 14:00 - Feb 20 by kensalriser |
Supposedly a majority of MPs are against Brexit. I wonder how many more of them will have the bollox to do something instead of continually allowing the ERG and DUP nutters to call the shots. |
Why are the ERG "Nutters" ?, when all they have ever done since 2017 is hold the government to account on the manifesto pledge they stood on to gain power.
All some of the 11 have done since winning their seats is reneged that manifesto pledge, the other/s have cited anti-Semitism.
As has been posted before their main thrust is to stand against Brexit by way of a Peoples vote, although they wont allow the people to stand at the ballot box to have a vote on removing them, nutters you say. |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 22:38 - Feb 20 with 1929 views | stowmarketrange |
| Seven gone from Labour on 20:52 - Feb 20 by colinallcars |
I agree they should go to the electorate, but something needs to be done to change the two main parties. |
That would test the waters for their ‘people’s vote’ that they’re so keen to force on the rest of us.But then they might lose their cushy lives earlier than they would with a general election. | | | |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 23:20 - Feb 20 with 1896 views | LazyFan |
| Seven gone from Labour on 20:37 - Feb 20 by colinallcars |
I think if this group get a few big-hitters to join them, they could really take off. The two main parties are morally and practicallyredundant and cannot address the enormous problems facing this country. |
Yet Labour still is the largest party in Europe with over 500K members. That still after losing 40K because of Brexit.
I won't join until the members have more say on who is the leader rather than corrupt MP's who would choose another Blair as is proven by these 8 leaving who would have done so.
The best thing the New Liebour Blarites ever did was remove the union power as now the members who they cannot control, obtained more say. And the Tories cannot claim the Labour Party is in hock to the Unions anymore as they have zero power!
Once the PLP power is removed then the Momentum will be with the members as it should be. Now that's what I call Progress :P
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |  |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 07:22 - Feb 21 with 1782 views | Konk |
| Seven gone from Labour on 23:20 - Feb 20 by LazyFan |
Yet Labour still is the largest party in Europe with over 500K members. That still after losing 40K because of Brexit.
I won't join until the members have more say on who is the leader rather than corrupt MP's who would choose another Blair as is proven by these 8 leaving who would have done so.
The best thing the New Liebour Blarites ever did was remove the union power as now the members who they cannot control, obtained more say. And the Tories cannot claim the Labour Party is in hock to the Unions anymore as they have zero power!
Once the PLP power is removed then the Momentum will be with the members as it should be. Now that's what I call Progress :P
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
If you won power on membership numbers, that would be great, but obviously you don't. I'm still coming to terms with the way the last election is held up as some sort of tremendous success for Labour. It wasn't. We still have a Tory government.
When the leadership election came along, I voted for Corbyn as a protest vote because I didn't want a Blairite as leader. I wasn't actually expecting him to win. I also wished him good luck when I bumped into him in my favourite Turkish restaurant during his campaigning (Selale in Harringay, if you were wondering).
With our electoral system, you need to win over sufficient floating voters in key marginals, and I know enough Labour voters in my own family and circle of friends, who won't vote for a Corbyn government, that I just can't see that happening. To be polling behind the Tories after eight years of ideologically-driven austerity, the fiasco of Brexit etc is really quite remarkable. I might broadly agree with lots of Corbyn's ideas re nationalisation, taxation etc, but I don't think floating voters will trust him to run the country. I've actually started to quite dislike the arrogance and general demeanour of the bloke. The more I hear him talk, the less appealing he becomes. |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 07:31 - Feb 21 with 1773 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Seven gone from Labour on 07:22 - Feb 21 by Konk |
If you won power on membership numbers, that would be great, but obviously you don't. I'm still coming to terms with the way the last election is held up as some sort of tremendous success for Labour. It wasn't. We still have a Tory government.
When the leadership election came along, I voted for Corbyn as a protest vote because I didn't want a Blairite as leader. I wasn't actually expecting him to win. I also wished him good luck when I bumped into him in my favourite Turkish restaurant during his campaigning (Selale in Harringay, if you were wondering).
With our electoral system, you need to win over sufficient floating voters in key marginals, and I know enough Labour voters in my own family and circle of friends, who won't vote for a Corbyn government, that I just can't see that happening. To be polling behind the Tories after eight years of ideologically-driven austerity, the fiasco of Brexit etc is really quite remarkable. I might broadly agree with lots of Corbyn's ideas re nationalisation, taxation etc, but I don't think floating voters will trust him to run the country. I've actually started to quite dislike the arrogance and general demeanour of the bloke. The more I hear him talk, the less appealing he becomes. |
I’m a bit confused Konk.
You voted for Corbyn in 2017 but didn’t expect him to win, but you said earlier you can’t bring yourself to vote for Labour? Is that right?
He’s a good candidate when he’s 20pts behind by a bad one when he’s viable? |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 07:46 - Feb 21 with 1765 views | stevec |
| Seven gone from Labour on 07:31 - Feb 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’m a bit confused Konk.
You voted for Corbyn in 2017 but didn’t expect him to win, but you said earlier you can’t bring yourself to vote for Labour? Is that right?
He’s a good candidate when he’s 20pts behind by a bad one when he’s viable? |
Corbyns the bloke you might have a pint with down the pub but you wouldn’t want him to meet your family.
In fact, can I rephrase that? I wouldn’t want to meet him down the pub either. |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 07:48 - Feb 21 with 1764 views | Konk |
| Seven gone from Labour on 07:31 - Feb 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I’m a bit confused Konk.
You voted for Corbyn in 2017 but didn’t expect him to win, but you said earlier you can’t bring yourself to vote for Labour? Is that right?
He’s a good candidate when he’s 20pts behind by a bad one when he’s viable? |
I can't have made myself clear - apologies. When the leadership election took place, it was a completely uninspiring field of sub-Blair candidates. Then Corbyn was nominated as a candidate and my theory was the he would attract a reasonable chunk of votes, which would demonstrate to whoever actually won the leadership, that there was a significant appetite for a move to the left amongst the membership. I was hoping for a realignment to the left.
I have voted Labour in every General or Local election bar the one that followed the Iraq war, and that's the case with plenty of family and friends from working and middle class backgrounds, who just can't bring themselves to support him. I don't think he's remotely viable when it comes to a General election. To me, he comes across as a humourless, arrogant, condescending ideologue and not especially bright. I just can't see him appealing to sufficient numbers in marginals. I would probably instinctively vote Labour at the next GE, but it wouldn't be with any enthusiasm or expectation and it would be in support for our local MP rather Corbyn and the Shadow cabinet. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 08:02 - Feb 21 with 1740 views | Dixie_CT |
Corbyn is openly a class traitor with questionable choices in close allies. The Tories are the tories and do some of the best hiding in plain sight I've ever seen.
This new group, being financed by Blair, might become the Lib Dems pre-coalition but can't seem them becoming a major player.
All rather depressing but who has the will, personality and stamina to change it?
Vote Green. Or Colonel Bernie Sanders. Or don't. |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 08:30 - Feb 21 with 1713 views | StreathamRanger |
| Seven gone from Labour on 07:48 - Feb 21 by Konk |
I can't have made myself clear - apologies. When the leadership election took place, it was a completely uninspiring field of sub-Blair candidates. Then Corbyn was nominated as a candidate and my theory was the he would attract a reasonable chunk of votes, which would demonstrate to whoever actually won the leadership, that there was a significant appetite for a move to the left amongst the membership. I was hoping for a realignment to the left.
I have voted Labour in every General or Local election bar the one that followed the Iraq war, and that's the case with plenty of family and friends from working and middle class backgrounds, who just can't bring themselves to support him. I don't think he's remotely viable when it comes to a General election. To me, he comes across as a humourless, arrogant, condescending ideologue and not especially bright. I just can't see him appealing to sufficient numbers in marginals. I would probably instinctively vote Labour at the next GE, but it wouldn't be with any enthusiasm or expectation and it would be in support for our local MP rather Corbyn and the Shadow cabinet. |
This pretty much sums up where I'm at with the labour party at the moment. My parents, both members for as long as I can remember, recently quit the party. Momentum can bang on about 500,000 members all they like but that represents barely 1% of the electorate. Labour should be killing the Tories when you look at the mess they are in yet Corbyn is behind in more polls than he is in front.
I've been teaching 13 years and have many friends who work in the public sector and I'm sick of the effects of austerity but it looks increasingly likely that we'll have a good few more years of it yet.
Has anyone seen that documentary about universal credit in Hartlepool. It's unbelievable. Sanctions handed out to the point where a couple have £6 a month to survive on. That's 10p per person per day. How can this happen in one of the world's wealthiest countries? | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:02 - Feb 21 with 1677 views | plasmahoop |
| Seven gone from Labour on 08:30 - Feb 21 by StreathamRanger |
This pretty much sums up where I'm at with the labour party at the moment. My parents, both members for as long as I can remember, recently quit the party. Momentum can bang on about 500,000 members all they like but that represents barely 1% of the electorate. Labour should be killing the Tories when you look at the mess they are in yet Corbyn is behind in more polls than he is in front.
I've been teaching 13 years and have many friends who work in the public sector and I'm sick of the effects of austerity but it looks increasingly likely that we'll have a good few more years of it yet.
Has anyone seen that documentary about universal credit in Hartlepool. It's unbelievable. Sanctions handed out to the point where a couple have £6 a month to survive on. That's 10p per person per day. How can this happen in one of the world's wealthiest countries? |
I didn't see the hartlepool documentary, but I agree that a lot of things are going badly askew at the moment.
What we don't here though from anybody is any satisfactory ideas about raising the extra taxation. The government spends roughly 700 billion, takes in tax less, pays loads in debt interest. Taxes have gone up a lot in thelast few years, and will keep going up. Services will be cut, and this is regardless of who is in. If you tax the rich more they will leave, same with corporation tax. Even edmiliband basically matched the tory spending plans at his manifesto, it just didn't stack up that he condemned every cut. I would prefer personally to pay more income tax and not so many sneaky taxes, but being realistic doesn't win votes. | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:14 - Feb 21 with 1660 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Is there a Politician you can name that could unite if not all sides a large majority of the country?
Party Infighting is not helping the parties, but this lot don't offer or inspire anything, they just want to stop Brexit, none will call a by-election so are self-serving, why on earth would anyone support people who don't believe in standing by a democratic vote or risk their pay packet.
They have stolen their party seats. [Post edited 21 Feb 2019 9:18]
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| Seven gone from Labour on 09:19 - Feb 21 with 1640 views | StreathamRanger |
https://mobile.twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1098282209834950657
This guy talks a lot of sense. I didn't realise that historically tax rates were much higher. I guess, as you say, tax cuts win votes and we've become used to relatively low rates of tax.
Scandinavians pay a lot more tax but they look after people much better. Their maternity/paternity benefits are so much better than ours and pre school childcare costs are very low.
Although my pay has effectively been reduced by around 10% over the past few years thanks to public sector pay freezes, I'd pay a bit more if it meant we funded schools better or looked after the vulnerable and elderly with a bit more care and respect.
And I guess many of Corbyn's policies probably resonate with what I'm talking about but I can't help but feel that as a figurehead he is unelectable. There is just too much for the mainly right wing press to get him on.
There are a number of really strong female MPs in the Labour Party. I'd like to see Jess Phillips given a go as leader. I think she speaks to the common man far more than Corbyn. Her speech in parliament the other week was axcellent. | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:37 - Feb 21 with 1605 views | BlackCrowe |
"he comes across as a humourless, arrogant, condescending ideologue and not especially bright"
Couldn't put it better myself Konk, a joyless individual. |  |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 09:41 - Feb 21 with 1602 views | plasmahoop |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:19 - Feb 21 by StreathamRanger |
https://mobile.twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1098282209834950657
This guy talks a lot of sense. I didn't realise that historically tax rates were much higher. I guess, as you say, tax cuts win votes and we've become used to relatively low rates of tax.
Scandinavians pay a lot more tax but they look after people much better. Their maternity/paternity benefits are so much better than ours and pre school childcare costs are very low.
Although my pay has effectively been reduced by around 10% over the past few years thanks to public sector pay freezes, I'd pay a bit more if it meant we funded schools better or looked after the vulnerable and elderly with a bit more care and respect.
And I guess many of Corbyn's policies probably resonate with what I'm talking about but I can't help but feel that as a figurehead he is unelectable. There is just too much for the mainly right wing press to get him on.
There are a number of really strong female MPs in the Labour Party. I'd like to see Jess Phillips given a go as leader. I think she speaks to the common man far more than Corbyn. Her speech in parliament the other week was axcellent. |
I'm pleased to hear there are some more talented people in the Labour Party lurking! That guy makes some interesting points, and the USA is an example of what happens if you don't have enough wealth redistribution. Scandinavia is on the other side. I think tax levels are higher now in terms of stealth taxes. In the 70 s the basic rate of income tax was 28 percent I think(could be wrong,) but the stealth taxes were less. If we went for the Scandinavian model of higher taxes for all and better care and services why not. Instead we have Boris demanding lower taxes and more spending, and corbyn promising a utopian future that you don't have to pay for. None of them are putting an argument of the required standard. And2 Thomas2bowles, no I can't think of any politician to unify the country | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:47 - Feb 21 with 1591 views | DaiHo0p |
We see the forces of dialectical materialism at work here. The Labour movement can't go away under these forces, whereas the Whigs, Tories, Libs and other obstacles to freeing humankind to achieve its true potential will be crushed. Just wish it could speed up :). |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:47 - Feb 21 with 1591 views | stevec |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:02 - Feb 21 by plasmahoop |
I didn't see the hartlepool documentary, but I agree that a lot of things are going badly askew at the moment.
What we don't here though from anybody is any satisfactory ideas about raising the extra taxation. The government spends roughly 700 billion, takes in tax less, pays loads in debt interest. Taxes have gone up a lot in thelast few years, and will keep going up. Services will be cut, and this is regardless of who is in. If you tax the rich more they will leave, same with corporation tax. Even edmiliband basically matched the tory spending plans at his manifesto, it just didn't stack up that he condemned every cut. I would prefer personally to pay more income tax and not so many sneaky taxes, but being realistic doesn't win votes. |
But the percentage of earnings we pay in tax is higher than practically all previous governments, including Labour ones.
Most young people I know just about make ends meet, older ones have just about enough to see them into retirement if they act frugally enough. So where are all these people who earn so much they'd be 'happier' paying even more tax? Few and far between is my guess and certainly not enough of them to make a difference.
You have to ask what exactly are the Government spending 700 billion a year on. Whilst the NHS is a fantastic creation and something we all want, you wonder what possessed the Government of those days to think NIC contributions would cover the NHS and the state pension combined. It didn't, nor will it ever catch up.
When you look at social security and state pensions they've exploded and no government, Tory or Labour, invested tax take or NI take into covering those costs, in other words how you or I fund our own pensions, with money only we personally can afford. The Tories move recently to create workplace pensions is the first step in 70 years to alleviate a future catastrophe although that won't truly have any impact for at least 40 to 50 years.
As such, for most of all our adult lifetimes, the young will carry on paying for the old, as they have scandalously done since around 1948. It's a disgrace and one thing I partially agree with Corbyn on, requires an introduction of a punitive property tax, but sadly not the one he proposes as that will hurt the single home owner more than their wealthier counterparts. | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:55 - Feb 21 with 1577 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:41 - Feb 21 by plasmahoop |
I'm pleased to hear there are some more talented people in the Labour Party lurking! That guy makes some interesting points, and the USA is an example of what happens if you don't have enough wealth redistribution. Scandinavia is on the other side. I think tax levels are higher now in terms of stealth taxes. In the 70 s the basic rate of income tax was 28 percent I think(could be wrong,) but the stealth taxes were less. If we went for the Scandinavian model of higher taxes for all and better care and services why not. Instead we have Boris demanding lower taxes and more spending, and corbyn promising a utopian future that you don't have to pay for. None of them are putting an argument of the required standard. And2 Thomas2bowles, no I can't think of any politician to unify the country |
no I can't think of any politician to unify the country
And we are back in the room, tribalism. [Post edited 21 Feb 2019 10:38]
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| Seven gone from Labour on 09:59 - Feb 21 with 1566 views | StreathamRanger |
A pensions crisis is surely looming. These poor sods in Hartlepool and other towns with no industry left have no jobs to apply for so will have not paid a penny in NI. What happens to them when they're old?
What about the younger generation who have no hope of ever owning their own home? Years spent paying extortionate rents with nothing to show for it when they get to 65. Who pays their rent when they retire having been unable to put any money aside for a pension?
I got lucky and managed to buy a home for my family when the market was at rock bottom a few years back. No way I'd be able to do that now. How can the price of a 2 bed terrace in Streatham double in 5 years if no one has seen their pay increasing. I fear for younger colleagues at work and of course my own children. And we're the lucky ones who have jobs and can keep a roof over our heads. | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 10:03 - Feb 21 with 1551 views | Konk |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:19 - Feb 21 by StreathamRanger |
https://mobile.twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1098282209834950657
This guy talks a lot of sense. I didn't realise that historically tax rates were much higher. I guess, as you say, tax cuts win votes and we've become used to relatively low rates of tax.
Scandinavians pay a lot more tax but they look after people much better. Their maternity/paternity benefits are so much better than ours and pre school childcare costs are very low.
Although my pay has effectively been reduced by around 10% over the past few years thanks to public sector pay freezes, I'd pay a bit more if it meant we funded schools better or looked after the vulnerable and elderly with a bit more care and respect.
And I guess many of Corbyn's policies probably resonate with what I'm talking about but I can't help but feel that as a figurehead he is unelectable. There is just too much for the mainly right wing press to get him on.
There are a number of really strong female MPs in the Labour Party. I'd like to see Jess Phillips given a go as leader. I think she speaks to the common man far more than Corbyn. Her speech in parliament the other week was axcellent. |
Blimey, don’t mention Jess Philips! I think she comes across as a breath of fresh air. Relatable, passionate and doesn’t take herself too seriously. Bonus points for reportedly telling Diane Abbott to fuc k-off. I reckon the average Labour voter would much rather go for a pint and a chat with her than spend an evening with Corbyn. Of course, she’s not ideologically pure enough for many, so not the most popular MP amongst the newer elements of the membership. Be nice to see the theoretical party of equality finally have a female leader too. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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