By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
It was touched on by a poster who replied to Clive's match report on the home page. Could racism be a factor in the non stop and over the top abuse Chris Ramsey is getting? Hey just putting it out there guys( I know that will go down well on Disco's irritation thread) Don't shoot the messenger etc etc...
When we got flipped over like a spanish omelette at Man city and Leicester last season and shat out two of the most tape worm ridden cowardly performances I have seen by QPR players since 1977, given the circumstances, I thought' Ramsey you Facking skin back Helmet' not 'Ramsey You Facking skin back black Black Helmet'.
My insult may have had the whiff of the 1970's about it, given the use of the word 'Helmet', but his pigmentation was the furthest thing from my mind when he stood on the touchline looking like he was waiting for ronnie and reggie kray to spring him from Rampton
The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
2
Big Elephant in the room.. on 16:19 - Oct 26 with 2478 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 16:05 - Oct 26 by Discodroids
When we got flipped over like a spanish omelette at Man city and Leicester last season and shat out two of the most tape worm ridden cowardly performances I have seen by QPR players since 1977, given the circumstances, I thought' Ramsey you Facking skin back Helmet' not 'Ramsey You Facking skin back black Black Helmet'.
My insult may have had the whiff of the 1970's about it, given the use of the word 'Helmet', but his pigmentation was the furthest thing from my mind when he stood on the touchline looking like he was waiting for ronnie and reggie kray to spring him from Rampton
Apropos of nothing, big big fan of helmet as an insult
1
Big Elephant in the room.. on 16:47 - Oct 26 with 2420 views
I love this term 'over the top abuse Ramsey is getting'. How fckin short are your memories?
Have a think back to Jan 15, or maybe Dec 14 or even Nov 14. Any advance on Oct 14? In fact anything 14, even promotion in 13/14, and have a butchers at the abuse Harry Redknapp was getting on here. Fckin. Non. Stop.
I put it to you, that maybe the people who back up threads like this are quite possibly the real racists on here. It's a fckin insult that contributors are having to even say 'No' and then justify their reasons.
3
Big Elephant in the room.. on 16:50 - Oct 26 with 2415 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 16:02 - Oct 26 by adhoc_qpr
You're right - you have every right to raise this thread and a message board is all about different opinions. I'll get back in my box!
Mine is that it's a big leap of logic to say the manager is getting booed, it must be because he's black rather than due to his performance - but other's have said it in far more detail than i can manage.
It's a big leap to say that we believe that Ramsey is being booed because he's black. He's being booed mostly for his bizarre substitutions. One or two of us have suggested that the more hysterical responses just might be racially motivated. It's a perfectly reasonable discussion. I hope it's not going to shouted down.
[Post edited 26 Oct 2015 17:01]
Strong and stable my arse.
1
Big Elephant in the room.. on 16:56 - Oct 26 with 2411 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 14:39 - Oct 26 by robith
I've often thought this, but kept my council as I'm not sure I can explain it properly. But basically racism in Britain has moved past ostentatious displays and is more insidious: often as subconscious, societal or inherited biases. Certainly I look at the reactions relative to some of out other recent managers and it does strike me as disproportionate. Would certainly be an interesting psychological study.
Please note, I'm not saying that if you're anti Ramsey you're racist, more that we all are in some way? Am I making sense? Who knows. Probably not.
This is more what I meant by my comment on the match report, I didn't mean it as in we're all being John Terry's but more wondering about whether the stick would really be so bad if he was a white man for example, I could well be wrong, I know certainly that his insistence on playing SWP in certain games last season rubbed many the wrong way and all and certainly was wrong, but surely the manager would be using all his available resources? It may purely be footballing reasons but some of the comments on the board, one of the posters going so far as to call Les and Ramseys presence at the club as a "social experiment" (really?) kind of hints that there may have some subconcious prejudices manifesting? I'm no expert really, but it's worth thinking about imo, I hope I'm 100% wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a vocal minority who fit this case, I'd be sorely depressed if we ended up like that lot down the road however and it's good this is being discussed really
2
Big Elephant in the room.. on 17:05 - Oct 26 with 2388 views
wow, one mk dons report suggested qpr fans may not be bright sparks ( my words) or fickle....now racist? NO. sorry...even to start a thread, with little evidence, amazes me. ramsey should not have got the job in the prem lge, cos he has no experience, we hear this talk of a good coach, where is that? he has had the same time as sherwood and sherwood failed, was he sacked for being white? no, just doing a bad job. ramsey has had time to tighten up the defence and that's not happening, we leak goals and teams cut thru us..a poor mk did get thru at times. the lack of black, asian or martian managers is one i can't answer, paul ince was in tears almost every game for blackpool, pressure?? twist it and say why so few minority police, refs etc.... i want the best for qpr and with the squad we have, then we should be top 6 and looking better imo. every team qpr has at all levels ,playing ramsey's system are shipping goals, there's the issue. imo, if the players MAN UP some more, worked harder and battled, then maybe we can become a force in this league, i can't see it, we are lightweight, don't chase back, tackle and play a slow tempo, that's coaching for me.
2
Big Elephant in the room.. on 17:08 - Oct 26 with 2383 views
I don't think so, very few people would take into consideration a players skin colour and it's the same with Ramsey in my opinion. I've seen/heard nothing to suggest it's a factor and I'm not sure there's been much over the top abuse either. Understandably a lot of people didn't like Redknapp or Hughes and thought they were kunts, I've not seen anyone take that stance with Ramsey and in fact quite the opposite, he's clearly a likeable bloke, but what abuse there's been is purely down to his management imo.
categorically no - with all recruitment it should be the best person for the job. Sorry to say that I don't believe Ramsey is the best person for the managers position - but whilst he is incumbent I will support him and cheer on the team. But with anyone in management you should be able to appropriately question their decisions (substitutions for eg). Shouting, swearing and being generally abusive at a game, especially in front of children isn't big and it isn't clever.
QPR used to be known as the family club where you would go and watch good attacking football, usually in perfect safety and with fans who appreciated their team regardless of creed or colour. Let's keep it that way.
Big Elephant in the room.. on 17:44 - Oct 26 by headhoops
categorically no - with all recruitment it should be the best person for the job. Sorry to say that I don't believe Ramsey is the best person for the managers position - but whilst he is incumbent I will support him and cheer on the team. But with anyone in management you should be able to appropriately question their decisions (substitutions for eg). Shouting, swearing and being generally abusive at a game, especially in front of children isn't big and it isn't clever.
QPR used to be known as the family club where you would go and watch good attacking football, usually in perfect safety and with fans who appreciated their team regardless of creed or colour. Let's keep it that way.
In a nutshell... Well said sir.
0
Big Elephant in the room.. on 18:53 - Oct 26 with 2242 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 14:55 - Oct 26 by WokingR
"No one has ever talked about Race other than Ramsey and Ferdinand "
This !
Well, they get asked about it again and again and have eloquently and very tactfully tried to alude to certain experiences and perceptions of theirs whilst trying not to make a big deal of it. Experiences which some people like to dismiss as nonsense and 'playing the race card' ( a loathsome reductive catchall phrase for the inarticulate).
As for no one else mentioning it what about our very own Benny the Ball who made a whole accusation based on every Black person in an elevated position at the club. An accusation that was so over the top that it appears he then went on to pretend to be A BLACK MAN to try and protect himself from being called out for acting the c*nt! Benny if you're out there and you weren't pretending, I apologise, my offer to meet you still stands. If you were pretending...
No, obviously the vast majority of anti Ramsey's are not racist. Yes, obviously a few people with overt or covert racist leanings may be consciously or unconsciously a little harder on him. We all profile people to some degree, even if it's negligible. Although ultimately, so what? As a black man of a certain age he will long have learnt to accept that maybe on the odd occasion his race is a slight factor in how a small minority of people view or treat him.
Anyway, here are the facts.
1
Big Elephant in the room.. on 19:26 - Oct 26 with 2205 views
He's not popular and seems to be getting pelters along the same lines of Messrs Hart and Hughes. Thus, to answer the opening post, no!
The reason Ramsey is currently the subject of inquisition runs the spectrum from those who queried his appointment rationally and still do, through to those who think he is way out of his depth on the evidence before him and maybe express their thoughts in somewhat heated fashion.
There maybe some for whom the colour of his skin is an issue, but in view of the fact that blokes like Parker, Ferdinand (Les), Hazell, Zamora et al have been beatified on occasion by the Rfosi, I think racism is well down the agenda of why Ramsey is currently taking pelters.
Whether those pelters are justified or rational, time will tell.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
IF it is racism then those fans must find it hard to cheer
jet chery phillips sando henry onouha
problem is he isn't a proven manager ,if we had got rid of the star players he would have been left with his kids and new signings then all we would expect hope for would be survival , but as he has all the big names sill there Austin phillips fer sandro onouha green that's more than half of a premiership team so naturally a top 6 position is expected or even demanded by many
I was only discussing Benny's madcap tactics, substitutions and rigid 4-2-3-1 formation with Nick Griffin, Nigel Farage and the ghost of Enoch Powell the other day....
We all agreed that maybe he's struggling to understand what task is expected of him what what Then we agreed to re-start the Sixth Reich next home game in W12
So it appears my party will actually be far right party????
Come on Pommy old son, there's more about you to even wonder such thoughts
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
1
Big Elephant in the room.. on 20:24 - Oct 26 with 2136 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 20:02 - Oct 26 by Lblock
I was only discussing Benny's madcap tactics, substitutions and rigid 4-2-3-1 formation with Nick Griffin, Nigel Farage and the ghost of Enoch Powell the other day....
We all agreed that maybe he's struggling to understand what task is expected of him what what Then we agreed to re-start the Sixth Reich next home game in W12
So it appears my party will actually be far right party????
Come on Pommy old son, there's more about you to even wonder such thoughts
Have what you have seen and heard at matches not seemed disproportionate to you . L Block ? I never saw that level of vitriol for Redknapp On here maybe but not at LR .
0
Big Elephant in the room.. on 20:55 - Oct 26 with 1970 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 20:33 - Oct 26 by essextaxiboy
Have what you have seen and heard at matches not seemed disproportionate to you . L Block ? I never saw that level of vitriol for Redknapp On here maybe but not at LR .
Nope.
Under Candle Face it was awful BUT we were winning games The grumbles were growing before his knees went west, if he'd stuck around he would've been in for a Nigel Farage of abuse, of that I'm certain. He too didn't have a clue what he was doing and the rumours were getting stronger of his plot being lost
Benny is however suffering for being the third in line and you'll find the stick increases as Huey moves onto Louis and moves onto Duey. Quite simply the peasants are revolting as we've had enough. Bungle is treading a fine line and he'll be next in the stocks before long... as he's of Malaysian origin I suppose we need to put our PC gloves on and tread very carefully there as well??
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
1
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:03 - Oct 26 with 1961 views
Ramsey is getting stick because he hasn't performed it's as simple as that , Houston, Harford and hart got way more absuse
We have had loads of black players in our history some of them cult heros , go to a game and you will see quite a few black fans compared to other clubs, even some of our "firm" years ago had black lads in West London before it got trendy was a rough tough working class area with people from all over We have fans from all backgrounds, Irish, middle eastern, West Indian , Spain , Scandinavia , absolute load of shite this theory and an insult to QPR fans in general
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
3
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:12 - Oct 26 with 1944 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:03 - Oct 26 by paulparker
What a load of bollox
Ramsey is getting stick because he hasn't performed it's as simple as that , Houston, Harford and hart got way more absuse
We have had loads of black players in our history some of them cult heros , go to a game and you will see quite a few black fans compared to other clubs, even some of our "firm" years ago had black lads in West London before it got trendy was a rough tough working class area with people from all over We have fans from all backgrounds, Irish, middle eastern, West Indian , Spain , Scandinavia , absolute load of shite this theory and an insult to QPR fans in general
I would say it's a point worth raising and that we are discussing it is a good thing, outright denying it and shutting down the topic does no good imo...
3
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:15 - Oct 26 with 1936 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:03 - Oct 26 by paulparker
What a load of bollox
Ramsey is getting stick because he hasn't performed it's as simple as that , Houston, Harford and hart got way more absuse
We have had loads of black players in our history some of them cult heros , go to a game and you will see quite a few black fans compared to other clubs, even some of our "firm" years ago had black lads in West London before it got trendy was a rough tough working class area with people from all over We have fans from all backgrounds, Irish, middle eastern, West Indian , Spain , Scandinavia , absolute load of shite this theory and an insult to QPR fans in general
Vast majority of those doing the most vociferous moaning about Ramsey are impatient, spoilt and have very short memories, more than racist IMO.
There's no way that anyone can suggest it's not a contributing factor for a few though. Not seen any overtly racist posts, but an awful lot 'speculating' about the sackability of Les and Ramsey based on their skin colour, and way too many uses of the phrase 'social experiment' on various messageboards.
0
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:17 - Oct 26 with 1931 views
What a dreadful thread,I like CR and want him to succeed,however I've seen a manager who isn't even reactive never mind pro active. The selections and substitutions he continually makes have me scratching my head trying to work out what his plan is. If he doesn't improve he will be sacked,that has fcuk all to do with his ethnicity and anyone who thinks that's why he's getting a hard time from our fans needs to have a word with themselves. If HR had made the same selections/subs as he continually makes he'd have got far more stick. Paul Hart and Ray Harford who were experienced proven managers got it far worse than CR. I don't agree with it but it's how a minority of fans get when things aren't going our way.
0
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:25 - Oct 26 with 1919 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:15 - Oct 26 by DeepcutHoop
Vast majority of those doing the most vociferous moaning about Ramsey are impatient, spoilt and have very short memories, more than racist IMO.
There's no way that anyone can suggest it's not a contributing factor for a few though. Not seen any overtly racist posts, but an awful lot 'speculating' about the sackability of Les and Ramsey based on their skin colour, and way too many uses of the phrase 'social experiment' on various messageboards.
Yeah 30 odd years of supporting QPR has made me spoilt,impatient and has given me huge memory loss Do me a favour One person bought up the " experiment" that's one person out of about 50 who use this MB I don't want Ramsey as head coach but that doesn't make me a racist , spoilt, a Chelsea fan , or a glory hunter
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
1
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:38 - Oct 26 with 1897 views
I've never felt any posters on here were racist with their views on Ramsey. It never occurred to me at all. Benny the Ball is a mischief maker and his "social experiment"posts backs that up.
However, at the Bolton game I sat next to a miserable git who moaned the whole game about everyone and everything,I just sort of ignored him even though he kept trying to have a chat. but he said something to me about racism at the club. Not from fans but the club itself. TF , Ferdinand,Ramsey, all black. He obviously had a problem with it. Now that's just one person out of 17000 but it shows to me that there could be a minority who have a problem with us having a black manager. I'm not saying this is the main reason for the abuse Ramsey is getting,far from it. Ramsey should be judged on his results but at the moment we're winning more than we're losing. Fairplay to Pom for asking the question. Racism obviously still exists in football and if it takes the likes of Ramsey and Ferdinand to try and break down barriers in that department then fairplay to them. I would hope their priorities would be trying to get 3 points in the next game and getting QPR back on track though,which I'm sure it is. We've got Warnock now so that blows the miserable gits theory out the window anyway.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
0
Big Elephant in the room.. on 22:00 - Oct 26 with 1865 views
Big Elephant in the room.. on 21:25 - Oct 26 by paulparker
Yeah 30 odd years of supporting QPR has made me spoilt,impatient and has given me huge memory loss Do me a favour One person bought up the " experiment" that's one person out of about 50 who use this MB I don't want Ramsey as head coach but that doesn't make me a racist , spoilt, a Chelsea fan , or a glory hunter
'Various messageboards'
0
Big Elephant in the room.. on 22:04 - Oct 26 with 1858 views
I've been thinking about this, as the reaction he's getting is way over the top compared with various other underperforming managers we've had over the years, the only one I can remember getting this level of abuse was Paul Hart (quite f--king rightly).
There's no doubt a few here and there among the support who don't like him because he's black (don't pretend those fans don't exist, ive met them and known them over the years), but I think it's more because he doesn't have a background, a rep, a celebrity career in football. Hughes and Redknapp got a bit of time because they were Mark Hughes and Harry Redknapp, and for all the mistakes they made at Rangers, they are still two massive names (as was De Sousa, Waddock had some history with the fans, even Dowie).
People haven't heard of him and so think they know better than him. He's not a name, and so some of the modern crowd who think playing football is as easy as pressing buttons on a controller on FIFA and Football Manager haven't got any time for him. And he doesn't help himself sometimes: the Fulham game was a terrible bit of game management taking Chery off, as it stands he only seems to know one formation, our defence has been hilariously bad (Bolton the nadir) and in every media interview he sounds defeated and suicidal. Plus there's no doubt he lucked into the role, he clearly wasn't our first choice last year.
So rather than let him learn on the job (and we all make mistakes in our first senior role), it's just too easy to write him off as clueless.
I'm still 50/50 as to whether he is or not, but I'm not foaming at the mouth to get him out of the club, and I've seen some good things. Willing to give him a shot anyway. I'm fed up of not giving anyone more than 20 games to see what they can do, and his (or Les') signings this year have been excellent. Let's see what they can do.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
