| Am I the only one who sees this . . . 17:03 - Dec 28 with 4658 views | Davillin |
After promising myself to not mention this again, I am overwhelmed by the fact that Shelvey is a pure liability. He's an attack killer and momentum depressant with his ever more creative ways to give the ball away. Even I'm impressed by the variety and frequency - negatively impressed, that is.
I refused to do the counting, but I'd bet that he just plain gave the ball away in the attacking half more often than the rest of the team combined.
Sorry to say this, but we'd have been better off today playing with ten men. |  |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:33 - Dec 28 with 961 views | Neath_Jack |
JJS is the only one in our team who grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and takes it to the other team. He is always looking to get something going, always trying things apart from 5 or 6 yard passes. |  |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:34 - Dec 28 with 961 views | ItchySphincter |
There is no definition of liability in footballing terms but if there was it is unlikely that you could apply it to the same player every week. I'd say a liability would be someone who whilst wearing your colours gifted the opposition a clear opportunity to defeat you. Shelvey is clearly not that and the closest he came was in the first half of Liverpool at home but he nulled out his errors by atoning for his mistakes, scoring and creating a goal and therefore rescuing a share of the points. Liability, no. |  |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:35 - Dec 28 with 958 views | FearOfAJackPlanet |
"I am unable to put numbers on this, but there is some number of wasteful attacks I can accept in exchange for some number of successful ones, but in Shelvey's case the wasteful ones far outnumber the successful one. That's the definition of a liability."
No, that's the definition of a subjective opinion. As you admit, you have no proof, just your perception.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe from reading some of your posts that you are, as you Americans are fond of saying, 'Anal' about keeping possession, and this has clouded your judgement on Jonjo, focusing too much on that one aspect at the expense of others. You even state in this thread that every attempt at a goal is a miss. When someone so deliberately and intentionally ignores facts like that you know they're trying too hard to bend reality to match their dubious opinion; We're not entitled to our own facts as someone so often says....
...He's scored or assisted 7 goals for us so far this season and has the aggressive and attacking mindset so often lacking in the others around him who no doubt look much better on the 'passes completed' stats, but don't get us anywhere.
He's not perfect, but he's been one of our top performers this year and will only get better. My main concern right now is Laudrup playing him for the full 90 week in week out; Hope he's not going to knacker him out like he did with Michu. |  |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:37 - Dec 28 with 948 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:21 - Dec 28 by raynor94 |
Fulham? |
Let me help you. Liverpool Home, Fulham Away, and Newcastle Home. Obviously, my words were meant to be descriptive, not definitive.
I'm sorry that I don't keep records of shots attempted, but that doesn't matter, either. It's the giving the ball away, in any of the many forms he uses to give the ball away, including missed shots. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:42 - Dec 28 with 930 views | WarwickHunt |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:37 - Dec 28 by Davillin |
Let me help you. Liverpool Home, Fulham Away, and Newcastle Home. Obviously, my words were meant to be descriptive, not definitive.
I'm sorry that I don't keep records of shots attempted, but that doesn't matter, either. It's the giving the ball away, in any of the many forms he uses to give the ball away, including missed shots. |
You don't like Shelvey? You should have said, mun.
First poor game for a while and hey presto, up you pop... |  | | |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:43 - Dec 28 with 924 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:26 - Dec 28 by Davillin |
Will you please define "liability" in footballing terms?
Is it not something along the lines that his negatives outweigh his positives? Or say, the number of chances his play wastes outnumber the chances his play creates?
Is the word "liability" itself "unnecessarily cruel," or is it the notion that he does the things I note above?
I could agree that he has the potential to be a good player, but for now, we do agree at least that "sometimes he tries too hard and that can make him look silly at times," if you will agree to some degree that his trying too hard and looking silly is a detriment to team success.
No? |
The word "liability" in this context implies that Shelvey is capable of no good at all. That may be not what you meant, but that's the implication whether you meant it or not. I don't agree that his negatives outweigh his positives, not at all. I think sometimes he gets carried away with himself and sometimes his desire outweigh his actual ability. But my view is that he's been a good signing for us and will continue to be so. |  |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:44 - Dec 28 with 921 views | Rancid |
Stick to Baseball or Ice Hockey or whatever it is you should be interested in and leave the 'soccer' to those who know a little about it. |  | | |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:48 - Dec 28 with 898 views | Liberty |
Our goal today- Shelvey to Hernandez to Lamah. Shelvey won't get an assist for thst but he is involved in most thats good, offensively and defensively. |  |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:49 - Dec 28 with 893 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:28 - Dec 28 by Liberty |
Dav, who would be your creative midfielder ? Please not DeGuzman . Rather play with 10 men is a bit harsh on Shelvey. Better than most, willing to try something different and most passes come off. |
I'd rather not get sidetracked into my opinion of who should be our "creative midfielder." It's not Shelvey, that's clear.
Football is not like bowling. In bowling, one of the team members might bowl all gutter balls and therefore not contribute to the team's "points." But in football, a player can actually cause his team to lose "points" in the sense of whether his play advances the team's play or retards it. The latter is a "liability." | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:55 - Dec 28 with 863 views | scottishjack |
Davillin doesn't seem the type to go fishing? But....? |  | | |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:57 - Dec 28 with 855 views | deanscfc |
poor today but generally been good. |  | | |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:00 - Dec 28 with 853 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:35 - Dec 28 by FearOfAJackPlanet |
"I am unable to put numbers on this, but there is some number of wasteful attacks I can accept in exchange for some number of successful ones, but in Shelvey's case the wasteful ones far outnumber the successful one. That's the definition of a liability."
No, that's the definition of a subjective opinion. As you admit, you have no proof, just your perception.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe from reading some of your posts that you are, as you Americans are fond of saying, 'Anal' about keeping possession, and this has clouded your judgement on Jonjo, focusing too much on that one aspect at the expense of others. You even state in this thread that every attempt at a goal is a miss. When someone so deliberately and intentionally ignores facts like that you know they're trying too hard to bend reality to match their dubious opinion; We're not entitled to our own facts as someone so often says....
...He's scored or assisted 7 goals for us so far this season and has the aggressive and attacking mindset so often lacking in the others around him who no doubt look much better on the 'passes completed' stats, but don't get us anywhere.
He's not perfect, but he's been one of our top performers this year and will only get better. My main concern right now is Laudrup playing him for the full 90 week in week out; Hope he's not going to knacker him out like he did with Michu. |
First, I thank you for your courteous and fact-based response.
On a humourous note, not all "Americans" are fond of using the term "anal." I'm not, but if I'm a bit concerned about this matter, it's not about possession - it's about giving possession away too often and killing momentum and/or attacks. There's a big difference.
Respectfully, your comments on how many goals and assists he has this season are noted, but it is my view that they are too much outweighed by his giving the ball away too cheaply or carelessly [I have not said that it's lack of skill on his part].
Therein lies the essential difference in whether we consider him an asset or liability, and I note that I have never said that he's a "good" or a "bad" player because that's not the issue. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:03 - Dec 28 with 840 views | builthjack |
I put a similar post out about 2 months ago and got slaughtered for it. I still think Shelvey gives the ball away far too often, resulting in our possession game breaking down. The lad has improved, and nobody can argue that he is not a tryer, but I do feel that it needs to be the swansea way and not the Shelvey way. Possession lost far too often by stray passes.
The stats a while back were 62% pass completion! which means that basically 38% passes - or 1 in 3 - we're going astray. Not good enough.
As I said previously, I hope he proves me wrong. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:07 - Dec 28 with 820 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:42 - Dec 28 by WarwickHunt |
You don't like Shelvey? You should have said, mun.
First poor game for a while and hey presto, up you pop... |
Respectfully, I neither like nor dislike Shelvey, or any Swansea player, current or former. Don't put attitudes in my mind.
It is your opinion that this is his "first poor game for a while," so I'm glad that we agree that he had a poor game, but you'll have to give me some credit for not "popping up" when he had what are in your opinion "good games."
I posted some time ago, in response to someone's similar statement about when I "pop up" about Shelvey, that I am as objective as they come, and that I have complimented his play on more than one occasion, but reserve more negative comments for when they are deserved.
You and I agree that they were deserved today. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:16 - Dec 28 with 803 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:44 - Dec 28 by Rancid |
Stick to Baseball or Ice Hockey or whatever it is you should be interested in and leave the 'soccer' to those who know a little about it. |
I normally don't respond to dimwitted comments like yours, but you might have contributed something to the discussion other than a personal attack.
And I'd bet that I know more about football ["soccer" in your snide usage] than you do, or you might have made a respectful contribution.
You might want to spend an hour or two reading the comments of the posters who disagreed with me in this thread, and learn how to do that. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:32 - Dec 28 with 763 views | swancity |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:16 - Dec 28 by Davillin |
I normally don't respond to dimwitted comments like yours, but you might have contributed something to the discussion other than a personal attack.
And I'd bet that I know more about football ["soccer" in your snide usage] than you do, or you might have made a respectful contribution.
You might want to spend an hour or two reading the comments of the posters who disagreed with me in this thread, and learn how to do that. |
Shelvey is not the brightest is he but he has been a good addition to the squad, being a different option too
But to refer to him as a liability is beyond belief. There are occasions when he takes the wrong option and his decision making needs to improve but for a young player he shows tremendous potential and ability. He is a good competitor who will respond to a challenge and can drive the team forward, when on song, in the way that the great robbie James could.
Liability? Clown. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:39 - Dec 28 with 755 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:43 - Dec 28 by exiledclaseboy |
The word "liability" in this context implies that Shelvey is capable of no good at all. That may be not what you meant, but that's the implication whether you meant it or not. I don't agree that his negatives outweigh his positives, not at all. I think sometimes he gets carried away with himself and sometimes his desire outweigh his actual ability. But my view is that he's been a good signing for us and will continue to be so. |
O.K., if we use your definition of "liability" that someone is capable of no good at all, you're right.
However, I'm sure that you know me well enough to know that I use my words carefully and don't use such an extreme mis-definition.
By a reading of my several posts on this subject, you know that I never said or implied that he was "capable of no good at all." In fact, in your post, you wrote exactly what I mean by "liabillity," saying that you don't agree with it. As you wrote, by liability I meant that "his negatives outweigh his positives."
In fact, I said exactly that in several different ways. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:48 - Dec 28 with 740 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:32 - Dec 28 by swancity |
Shelvey is not the brightest is he but he has been a good addition to the squad, being a different option too
But to refer to him as a liability is beyond belief. There are occasions when he takes the wrong option and his decision making needs to improve but for a young player he shows tremendous potential and ability. He is a good competitor who will respond to a challenge and can drive the team forward, when on song, in the way that the great robbie James could.
Liability? Clown. |
Now you see, there you went and ruined a perfectly good post [even though you and I disagree] by an unkind and undeserved personal attack.
It's time for you to learn that not everyone who disagrees with you is a "clown," nor even "wrong."
If you had just kept off that last word, your post would have been both respectful and worthy of respect. As it is written, it is neither.
And look, I didn't make one rude personal comment about you. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:50 - Dec 28 with 736 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 18:55 - Dec 28 by scottishjack |
Davillin doesn't seem the type to go fishing? But....? |
. . . but I do like to express my opinions respectfully and with some reasoned basis, and I do like to hear other posters' respectful and reasoned opinions. That's what I think a message board is about.
You are correct that I'm not the type to go fishing. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:52 - Dec 28 with 726 views | Halon |
I totally disagree with u | | | |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 20:01 - Dec 28 with 710 views | swancity |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:50 - Dec 28 by Davillin |
. . . but I do like to express my opinions respectfully and with some reasoned basis, and I do like to hear other posters' respectful and reasoned opinions. That's what I think a message board is about.
You are correct that I'm not the type to go fishing. |
You are a clever fella but your football knowledge doesn't match your level of intelligence.
So it's best if you don't make a fool of yourself with such silly comments. And they are silly. Intelligently stated but silly nonetheless.
Ps every footballer on the planet has a weakness or areas where they can improve. Even messi could be better. But to refer to an established premier league player as a liability is plainly way off the mark. Shelvey must realise that he doesn't always need to produce a game changing moment and that keeping things simple with ball retention is important. It's why Rodgers was happy for him to leave but liability? That's a stupid remark. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 20:03 - Dec 28 with 706 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:03 - Dec 28 by builthjack |
I put a similar post out about 2 months ago and got slaughtered for it. I still think Shelvey gives the ball away far too often, resulting in our possession game breaking down. The lad has improved, and nobody can argue that he is not a tryer, but I do feel that it needs to be the swansea way and not the Shelvey way. Possession lost far too often by stray passes.
The stats a while back were 62% pass completion! which means that basically 38% passes - or 1 in 3 - we're going astray. Not good enough.
As I said previously, I hope he proves me wrong. |
My commiserations to you. You and I are on the wrong side of one of two old Swansea message board traditions - this one is the canonization by some of a player immediately upon his joining the club and not allowing any opposing opinion under any circumstances. [The other is condemning a player, yada yada yada.]
Part of the problem, expressed here and there in this thread, is misdirecting a negative comment about a player's play into a personal attack on either the player or the poster's predetermined bias [see descriptions above], or both.
I accept that as a given and, to a certain extent understand it, and try to continue to be as rational and respectful as I can be until it becomes obvious that that doesn't work.
Several of the posters who disagreed with me in this thread earned my respect a long time ago, and they continue to do so. You can easily see who they are. I try always to thank them for that. To be blunt, they are an important part of the reason I post. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 20:09 - Dec 28 with 684 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 19:52 - Dec 28 by Halon |
I totally disagree with u |
Respectfully, now you might consider saying why.
No obligation to do so, but it might advance the conversation. Unless you don't want to do that either. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 20:18 - Dec 28 with 675 views | Davillin |
| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 20:01 - Dec 28 by swancity |
You are a clever fella but your football knowledge doesn't match your level of intelligence.
So it's best if you don't make a fool of yourself with such silly comments. And they are silly. Intelligently stated but silly nonetheless.
Ps every footballer on the planet has a weakness or areas where they can improve. Even messi could be better. But to refer to an established premier league player as a liability is plainly way off the mark. Shelvey must realise that he doesn't always need to produce a game changing moment and that keeping things simple with ball retention is important. It's why Rodgers was happy for him to leave but liability? That's a stupid remark. |
Again.
Your third paragraph would have been of considerable value, if you hadn't made all those personal remarks, like "make a fool of yourself," "silly comments," and "stupid remark." Or calling me "a clever fella," which can easily be interpreted as a mild insult.
Disagreeing with someone else doesn't make someone any of those things or I could easily use them on you, you know.
You know absolutely nothing of my "football intelligence."
In point of fact, the main points in your third paragraph actually support my argument. Except the stupid "stupid remark" remark. [Turnabout is still fair play, even in jest as I just used it.]
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you were disagreeing only with the use of the word "liability." Hope so. | |
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| Am I the only one who sees this . . . on 21:05 - Dec 28 with 644 views | builthjack |
We all have our opinions, and I just give my honest one, as I see it. Some may not agree, as they see things differently. That's fine, nothing wrong with a debate or discussion. It's nothing personal.
At the end of the day we should all want what is best for Swansea City. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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